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SONY C800G Vs. BRAUNER VM-1 Condenser Microphones
Old 6th March 2005
  #1
Gear Nut
 

SONY C800G Vs. BRAUNER VM-1

Hi to all, I am considering purchasing either a SONY C800G microphone or a BRAUNER VM-1. We are a commercial facility looking for a microphone that will cover a broad spectrum of musical styles. Reliability has to be high on the list of requirements. Any suggestions for other microphones very welcome. Looking forward to reading your posts. Matt F.
Old 6th March 2005
  #2
Gear Addict
 

check out Korby Audio

check out Korby Audio he has a KAT 4 mic that he hand tunes 4 seperate capsules for and he now makes a stunning 800 knock off ... I believe for roughly the same price as the 800 you'd then get 4 capsules .... he is as respected a mic guru as Klaus Heyne
Old 6th March 2005
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for the Korby Audio pointer, how do you rate the C800 and the VM-1?
Old 6th March 2005
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Lord Fear's Avatar
 

I've had the chance to use a c800 a few times but only ended up using it once. To my ears it sounds like a super clean tube mic, with no character. I ended up having the singer re track some of the vocals using a U67 because the C800 tracks werent standing well in the mix. I guess for certain things it has a purpose, but I can honestly say I don't think there is a place in Rock and Roll vocals for the C800. What are you going to be using it for?
Old 6th March 2005
  #5
Gear Nut
 

We do a lot of hip hop and so called urban music, but also we do a lot of rock bands. How about the Vm- 1?
Old 6th March 2005
  #6
Lives for gear
 

I don't have any experience with the Brauner but I've got a C800G and it's a great mic. Big and clear but not overly bright. I wouldn't say it has 'no' character, but I've got other tube mics that have more 'grit' when needed.

The Sony also gives good 'client'. Urban guys love to see it and just about everybody is familiar with it. I've got several Soundelux mics and I find myself selling them to clients (with good reason, they're great) and I never need to sell the Sony.

HTH.
Old 6th March 2005
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for the info Jan, definitely has "the look." What do you make of the Kirby Kat 4 system? Looks very interesting to me. Especially considering Kirby's reputation!!
Old 6th March 2005
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Haven't tried the Korby yet. I'm trying NOT to audition any more mics for a while heh

It's an interesting concept though.
Old 6th March 2005
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Lord Fear's Avatar
 

Its not that the mic has no character, I just found that it wasn't the character I like to hear on rock vocals. However I do see it a lot in urban sessions as well as pop, I guess its just a personal thing.
Old 6th March 2005
  #10
Lives for gear
 

The Brauner VM-1 (have 3 of them) has a VERY open, transparent and accurate sound, which is nice in many situations.
It´s extreme accuracy can be unsuitable for some thinner voices in combination with some v. precise preamps.

VM-1 loves Manley Slam!

is not so great on

Avalon AD-2022 (allmost clinical)

Though the Brauner is a tube mike, it doesn´t have the character commonly associated with tubes. It´s no warm mic.
Old 6th March 2005
  #11
Lives for gear
 
dave-G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great
I have no experience with the C800g, thought I did have it's early predecessor the C37 which I loved.
Just to clarify one point: the C800G has very little to do with the C37A except for the brand name.. the C800 (non-G).. is for all intents and purposes a new C37A.. Search this or Klaus Heyne's forums for further babbling on the topic..

Which reminds me... Tracy and Nadine Korby are really wonderful people and make outstanding microphones... but if the original poster is not looking to consider anything but the Brauner or the Sony... well.. I'll just throw the tangent to say that the KHE (Klaus Heyne Edition) of the Brauner is one of the most outstanding mics out there, bar none. .

Yeah, it's more money, but this IS Gearslutz, after all.

-dave
Old 7th March 2005
  #12
Gear Head
 
Mr T. Funken's Avatar
 

YA, DA, YA, DA, YA, DA......

Sorry fellas.......but you may wana check out a TELEFUNKEN Ela M251 (E) before you jump off that cliff! <br>

Anyone ever think about investment opertunity and resale value. Return on your investment!?<br>

Before you go out & buy a mic that will have little to no resale value! <br>

You should try Telefunken Ela M251 (E) It's a smart investment that will have future return!<br>


Try it & you'll fall in love with it's tone for sure!
Old 7th March 2005
  #13
Gear Addict
Don't own either but have used both.
I would say Brauner is more versatile (imo)
but Sony can be superb too and even better
in certain situations. Used both of them with
GML pres. I would still put my $$$ on M49 but
that's me. Used them mainly on vox and acoustic
guitar. A pair of VM-1s rocks on strings. But so does
a pair of M49s.. If I'd be you I would hire them both
with some good old favourites and see what's your
thing.
Old 7th March 2005
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Jamz's Avatar
I used the C800g quite a bit a couple of years ago. I thought it had a tight bottom and a clear top. Was sort of the pop vocal mic there for a while. Works amazingly well on the right voices but like everything else it doesn't work on everything.
It does something unique to itself but it doesn't have a sound the way a U67 has a sound. It is very clean.

I only used the Brauner once. For that vocalist I thought it was a little too bright.

I'm familiar with the new and the old 251s. The new models are awesome.
Huge sounding and open. On a good dynamic vocalist regardless of genre it's a killer. Also worked great on AC guitar.
Old 7th March 2005
  #15
84K
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84K's Avatar
The C800G and the Brauner VM-1 are very different. If you are trying to do a Mariah Carey type pop female(And that is the only application you want out of your new mic purchase), I would go for the C800G. If you want a more classical mic sound that is big a creamy on the top, I would get the Brauner. Only the C800G has that built in compression sound, and if that is what you want, that is the only way to get it. I respect Dirk Brauner very much and I think he builds quality microphones.
Old 7th March 2005
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Personnally, i prefer the Brauner VM-1 through an UA 2-610 with the 500 Ohms input impedance.
Old 7th March 2005
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Yep. Brauner VM-1 needs warm, smooth preamps.

Can´t wait to try the PEQ-1R with it.......................
Old 7th March 2005
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T. Funken
Sorry fellas.......but you may wana check out a TELEFUNKEN Ela M251 (E) before you jump off that cliff! <br>

Anyone ever think about investment opertunity and resale value. Return on your investment!?<br>
Before you go out & buy a mic that will have little to no resale value! <br>

<SNIP>

Tony, this is so professionally tacky I cannot believe you actually wrote this. A Brauner (or a Sony C800G)with little or no resale value? What planet are you currently living on?
Let's keep it professional Tony, no slights to other's gear.
Brad
Old 7th March 2005
  #19
Gear Nut
 
cuby's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde
Tony, this is so professionally tacky I cannot believe you actually wrote this. A Brauner (or a Sony C800G)with little or no resale value? What planet are you currently living on?
Let's keep it professional Tony, no slights to other's gear.
Brad
Hi Brad,
do you have any statistic on the resale value of Brauner and the Telefunken? Why would a Brauner (or Sony) has little or no resale value when Telefunken can hold up it's own? And do I really have to jump off the cliff if I ever buy a Brauner?
I know Telefunken is a bit desparate now, but I don't know the relationship between a usefullness of a mic (sound quality) vs. it's resale value. I thought if I have a mic I really like, I probably would never sell it, you know.
thanks!
Old 8th March 2005
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuby
Hi Brad,
do you have any statistic on the resale value of Brauner and the Telefunken? Why would a Brauner (or Sony) has little or no resale value when Telefunken can hold up it's own? And do I really have to jump off the cliff if I ever buy a Brauner?
I know Telefunken is a bit desparate now, but I don't know the relationship between a usefullness of a mic (sound quality) vs. it's resale value. I thought if I have a mic I really like, I probably would never sell it, you know.
thanks!
Cuby: No, I have no statistics on my own mics or Tony's. I know that Brauner's and Sony's do fine in resale and that old Telefunkens do well too. I would even assume that new Telefunkens are fine. There is no cliff here, only a decision that its what you want. Mics that are great always keep value. ANd yes, if you love it, you would never sell it.

How many Brauner VM1's do you see for sale used? We've sold hundereds and hunderds. How many C800's? I'm sure they've sold hundereds too. This is a sign of user satisfaction and most who buy these keep them. I know Brauner Vm1KHE's have gone way UP in value since we started to sell them.

Find what you like, buy the right thing that will last and you are in good shape, regardless of brand.

I will post thoughts on these two mics (C800G and Vm1) next.


Brad
Old 8th March 2005
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T. Funken
Sorry fellas.......but you may wana check out a TELEFUNKEN Ela M251 (E) before you jump off that cliff! <br>

Anyone ever think about investment opertunity and resale value. Return on your investment!?<br>

Before you go out & buy a mic that will have little to no resale value! <br>

You should try Telefunken Ela M251 (E) It's a smart investment that will have future return!<br>


Try it & you'll fall in love with it's tone for sure!
The only way that a new Telefunken mic could possibly have more resale value than a Sony or Brauner is if the seller tries to incinuate, fraudulantly, that it is a vintage (i.e. real) Telefunken mic--or if the buyer is simply confused as to its true lineage.

If I bought the rights to the name “Stradivarius,” and began manufacturing plywood violins in China, they would not have any more resale value than any other cheap knockoff.

dfegad BS
Old 8th March 2005
  #22
Lives for gear
 

The Brauner Vm1A (currrent version has an "A" designation) is a wide band mic useful on guitars, anything with strings, female vocals, high dynamic sources and very large sources. It is very neutral, a "low color" mic I call it. It has a very low noise floor, 11-12dBa self noise typical, low for a tube mic. Tons of air and detail without being scratchy or brittle.

Instruments: Most studios that own Vm1's think of it as the best acoustic guitar mic they have. It is very good on anything with strings. Not surprisingly it is heavily used in scoring as well. Tarzan, Pirates of the Carribean, etc. It is very good at distance.

Vocals: I've done well with females on VM1's and VM1A's. Jennifer Warnes, Sarah Brightman, Stevie Nicks, Patricia Barber, many females. Kathy Matea is the only client I can think of that owned a C800G that abandoned it for a VM1A. I think that was over small things and not large. I haven't done as well with males on Vm1, better with the VM1A, for it has more bottom in it. Lindsay Buckingham, if you know what he sounds like on this last Fleetwood Mac album.

C800G, I think what I hear from clients has been mentioned in this thread,: there's a compression artifact in the mic that is cool or not cool depending on who you are and what you are doing. Othewise its a very good mic, so many wouldn't use it if it wasn't.

As far as tone of the two mics compared, I can't comment- this is purely personal taste.

Brad
Old 8th March 2005
  #23
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
To save you two the embarrasment of a pissing contest here's a better idea Matt F. Buy Tracy Korby's KAT4 set and get an option of 3 of the 'classic' sounds plus 1 very clean and modern sound, for the same dough as one of those two.

Better to trust the company that's not talking because he's too bust making new mics and fixing mics for both owners and other dealers, the guy that artists seek out to tweak their vintage mics ... than the one's that are self-promoting, borrowing other mics names and schmatics, or the one that's most famous for it's price (Sony).


The Brauner mics are very detailed and to me a bit distant, while the Sony is sheeney and less useful, haven't heard the Tele USA but Tracy's 251s are tweaked next to the real Telefunken 251s he services so there's no loss, except a brand name.

The sleeper is the Korby ... C12 and 67M caps cover those 'clean' bases for Hop Hop certainly, then you have a 251 and a 47 cap to boot!

It's a no brainer.
Old 8th March 2005
  #24
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 

i am a big fan of brauner mics...used the sony a few times but never really wound up being one of my favorites..
Old 8th March 2005
  #25
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
To save you two the embarrasment of a pissing contest here's a better idea Matt F. Buy Tracy Korby's KAT4 set and get an option of 3 of the 'classic' sounds plus 1 very clean and modern sound, for the same dough as one of those two.
By the way how much will cost KAT4 (all 4 included)?
Did anybody hear Korby's 251 side by side with Tele's 251, as well as, U47 ?
Also, due to difference in electronics (various tubes etc.) I can't easily accept that one preamp can serve universally and emulating very close 2 or 3 so different mics (251, U47 or C12).
So, most probably Korby makes just exceptionally good mics, but when you need exact sound or very close to famous originals you would still need to go costlier way with Wagner U 47 or Tele's 251 E (together 13 k).

GYang
Old 8th March 2005
  #26
Lives for gear
 
massimo's Avatar
 

The Brauner VM1 is a wonderful microphone. The continuously variable pickup patterns on the remote power supply are a big plus. I have been using it for a couple of years now on acoustic instruments, mostly stringed. Other posts have already said it all right about its qualities.
I would only add this is an exceptionally sensitive microphone. I own other good mics (Schoeps, Neumann, etc.), but this one just "hears" anything, never-heard-before very quiet wrist watch tics included - just an example, which can sometimes be distracting, or problematic in non-sealed environments. Maybe for the same reason this one picks up transients better than a small diaphragm.
hope it helps
Massimo
Old 8th March 2005
  #27
Lives for gear
You're going to get people's mic TASTE in a question like this, naturally...

I think the Sony is a very nice mic, but extremely 'flat' sounding... almost intentionally characterless.
Which is not what *I* want from a microphone.
It works really well on SOME singers but I can't imagine wanting to use it on much else.

The Brauner is on the other end, fairly hype-y, but big sounding and very classy sounding.

My fave these days is the Gefell UM-900... a phantom powered tube!
It's hands down my favourite new vocal mic and I've yet to try it on ANYTHING that it didn't sound brilliant on.

So it's my desert island pricey tube mic (unless you can find a GREAT example of a U-47 and are willing to pay the $10,000 for it)
Old 8th March 2005
  #28
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
So, most probably Korby makes just exceptionally good mics, but when you need exact sound or very close to famous originals you would still need to go costlier way with Wagner U 47 or Tele's 251 E (together 13 k).

GYang

Bottom line, there is no ONE original sound, so all these mics are close. What's the best value? The one YOU love the most for your work. that suits your idea of an XX. Why pay more? brand name? The bulk of a mic is the capsule IMO, the electronics are important but secondary. Korby is not only the best guy on the planet for tweaks and repairs of vintage mic capsules and electronics (used by many other mic shops and mic manufacturers for OEM) he makes their capsules in house ... heck, they make everything in house. No one else does that.

Sure they're a small company, their advertising is next to nothing ... but if you want a 251 or a 47 do you think a company that copies one famous mic, or the one that daily tweaks many mics in that range would give you the more 'original' sound?

Personally I prefer the hand made in house guy, the small run guy, the one who doesn't need the pimps and advertising dollars to sell product, the one that makes parts and does repairs for more known names in the business than anyone else. the behind the scenes guy is my kinda guy.

Anyway, dont buy the hype from me or anyone else, get some mics and listen for yourself
Old 9th March 2005
  #29
84K
Lives for gear
 
84K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Pettit
Mr T Funken

Your sales crap is getting old.

This is not the place for it.
I love the products, but I have to agree. It is embarrassing.
Old 10th March 2005
  #30
Ted
Gear Maniac
 

Matt check your P.M.

Thanks,
Ted.
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