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3 mics to cover most vocals Condenser Microphones
Old 13th August 2008
  #61
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H..h..Hey joshua....peluso's are so bad i....play catch with them, and then sometimes i deliberately slip and let them fall on the ground, an then i kick them around in the dirt and laugh about it.



just kidding ive never used one. heh
Old 13th August 2008
  #62
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u87 (vintage)
Sm7
sm58 or sm57
Old 13th August 2008
  #63
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You set him straight Josh!!! I mean, (in a low wisper) "the guys' got his truck in a tree?"
Old 13th August 2008
  #64
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kittonian (joshua) always gets so much grief around here. He's very open about the fact that he's a pimp, and other pimps here recommend gear that they sell too (although kittonian is perhaps a little more repetitive)

Anyway, he normally gets his ass kicked, but today with the "peluso don't advertise" argument he did some ass kicking of his own. Nice to see for a change..

If you are looking for gear to pull clients by their name alone, peluso aren't what you're after, if you want value for money good mics, they may be. I think this is a destinction that you are going to have to decide on, as the only mics that are going to pull clients are neumanns, telefunkens etc.. even high end brands like Wunder Audio or Bock for example are unknown by many

narco
Old 13th August 2008
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle View Post
i agree with this. i think alot of the people who post stuff like that are 18 year olds sitting in their parents basement looking at porn and trashing gear that don't know jack sh#t about. i cann't imagine anyone with any since posting some of the immature post i see on here from time to time. this is not directed at anyone specificly in this thread but there are some questionable posts in here for sure. tutt
you've got that right dude.. not bad for a basement uh?
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Old 13th August 2008
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel c View Post
But this is the high end forum heh
wordthumbsup
Old 13th August 2008
  #67
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thats one nice basement heh
Old 13th August 2008
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowan_rashard View Post
Ive been hassitent about posting this but anyway here it goes...me and a friend of mine were planning on opening a small commercial studio facility but are on the fence about whats mics we should purchase to cover vocals...we want to atleast have 3 that would cover most any vocal...some mics in consideration where the Sony C800G, Telefunken Elam 251 E and the Neumann U87Ai...can you guys give your opinions on the versitility of these mics and any others that you would consider??
thanks for the info
AKG 414XL II,Neumann U47, Shure SM7B
Old 13th August 2008
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narco View Post
kittonian (joshua) always gets so much grief around here. He's very open about the fact that he's a pimp, and other pimps here recommend gear that they sell too (although kittonian is perhaps a little more repetitive)

Anyway, he normally gets his ass kicked, but today with the "peluso don't advertise" argument he did some ass kicking of his own. Nice to see for a change..
kinda depends on how you look at it no ?

I mean ...


Who needs advertisement if you have someone doing it for you for free in every other thread on the internet ....

Chris
Old 13th August 2008
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidstate View Post
you've got that right dude.. not bad for a basement uh?
did you feel my post was directed at you? have you been leaving "questionable" posts? it was mainly for people in general that do no give any advice to the original poster and at the same argue about nonsense getting way off topic...
Old 13th August 2008
  #71
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I have a Brauner VM-1, and I am very, very happy to own this.
Old 13th August 2008
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmignalFlow View Post
The great U47s had a way of making my dick stand up tall and proud when the air moved
I still prefer a conventional blow job.


,
Old 13th August 2008
  #73
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I'm no dealer. I think Peluso mics are fantastic. I think they hold up extremely well to mics 3 times their price. As to why you don't see many in pro studios, Pelusos are very new. Most engineers and studios are very conservative with their purchases. They want something old that has marketing appeal.

I have many Pelusos. I've used Elam 251s, Korbys with bunches of caps, Neumanns, Blue Bottles, two original U47s. I buy Pelusos because they give me the same vibe and cost far less. I don't care what people put into a name.

I think you guys are friggin' hostile.
Old 14th August 2008
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiltonlittle View Post
did you feel my post was directed at you? have you been leaving "questionable" posts? it was mainly for people in general that do no give any advice to the original poster and at the same argue about nonsense getting way off topic...
nah, i was just playing around man
Old 14th August 2008
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narco View Post
If you are looking for gear to pull clients by their name alone, peluso aren't what you're after, if you want value for money good mics, they may be. I think this is a destinction that you are going to have to decide on, as the only mics that are going to pull clients are neumanns, telefunkens etc.. even high end brands like Wunder Audio or Bock for example are unknown by many

narco
I hate to say it, but you're right.
Old 14th August 2008
  #76
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can't go wrong with a U-87. The C-800G was the defacto standard for many producers for a while.

I'd go with a VM1 KHE, a U-67 and a Elam 251. Others would be the U47, M49, C-12, do a search and you'll find lots of info. If i had to start with just one i'd get a u-87 or a U-67.Three is difficult. They sound great on everything.

good luck.
Old 14th August 2008
  #77
My 2 cents...

Back to aotwmusic's comment about the Korby Kat5 Convertible.

I have heard this mic in action, and while I don't think I'd tell you it's the closest sound to a 251 or 47 with those respective mic heads, everything I have heard convinces me that it is a VERY SERIOUS MIC. And the heads are VERY different. The mic is incredibly 3 dimensional, smooth, and eq'able up to whazoo without any problem spots. *Which, by the way, if you need to do any serious eq'ing on any good mic, you're using the wrong mic! =) *With the exception of a SM7B, which I know people buy because they CAN eq the heck out of it, but then again, that's not exactly a high-end mic, per se'. It's just a great mic.

So... I'd definitely consider the Korby if you want to save money and still have a ridiculously great (and I mean GREAT) microphone that can easily cover 90% of your bases. Please try one.

Now to smignolflow's comments:

1) Peluso's may sound great, but if the sky's the limit budget-wise, the best thing to do is to TAKE THE TIME to try microphones yourself. Don't go with anything because of a brand or "he-says, she-says." I can tell you the Korby is great even though it doesn't get the "most emulative" sound of a real 251 or 47; however, you should really try one.

2) As for 90% of people saying "We can't tell the difference!!!"
A) The people who are doing those reviews seldom can, my friend... they work mostly in magazine publishing, not audio production!
B) PLUS... too many of these comparisons are done with the one product vs. another product alone. There is NO WAY to tell the strengths and weaknesses of any product unless you USE IT IN CONTEXT with other tracks recorded, etc., and even then, it's best to try multiple styles and flavors of music if you're REALLY going to hear - for yourself - what a mic can and cannot do well.

All these things said, and these two user's comments noted, a Bock 251, Neumann 47/67/87 (because those are what sound like those), or the Korby Kat5 are all worth checking out, not because this is what magazines say to use, but because this is what a lot of professionals love and CHOOSE. =)

But seriously... find someone who sells them, and find a way to try them out.

Cheers and congratulations to you and your team on getting a studio going!

Brad
Old 14th August 2008
  #78
Here for the gear
 

I import Pelusos to Canada, so full disclosure there. I have a couple serious questions, which unfortunately will require a bit of a longish preamble. Sorry.

When I started selling the 2247LE, I figured I was going to get asked how close the mic was to a real 47, and since everybody knows "you can't remake an old mic and have the remake sound the same," I'd better get hold of an original and at least have some opinion on it. I figured if it was a 'great mic for the money' that'd be a decent result all things considered.

So I went to a studio in Toronto with a stock, well maintained U47 and did a series of tests. I realize A/B tests are largely bunk. An inch placement difference and you may as well have swapped mics, right? And no, it's not using the mic in a busy mix either. Still, we tried to be as scientific as humanly possible. A dozen tests on different sources, mics capsule to capsule, source equidistant, exact gain matching, baffles in front of the windows, only the engineer on duty knew what we were hearing etc... Goodness knows most of your listening is a mental activity, and as a dealer my brain was already compromised. I've done listening tests in the past with folks like James Guthrie and... actually I did one last week with Stanley Lip****z (inventor of dither), so I understand your methods are crucial to not compromising the results. We did an A/B/X... where X is A or B, and if you can't identify X, you nullify your result. You really can't hear the difference between A and B if you can't tell what X is, right?

We had about 6 witnesses, engineers and a few TV composers who were interested. We couldn't consistently tell the U47 from the LE. Now that I've heard the files 1000 times I can tell them apart, but they're obsecenely close.

Barry Rudolph, (and to the previous poster, Barry has made a lot of records), tried to find the best examples of vintage U47s he could for his tests... I think he got a popular rental U47 from a rental company in LA, and a never used, museum quality U47 from a private collection. His conclusions were similar to mine. I emailed back and forth a little with him before the review came out and told him likely nobody would believe him, but he assured me that he really tried to give an honest, accurate review. He figured if he used a couple decent U47s that would tell most people what they wanted to know. He did use them in a mix and said with a little typical processing you really can't tell them apart.

I don't think in either test the results were predetermined by our marketing biases. Barry has no attatchment to Peluso, and (like you're gonna believe me) I honestly just wanted to try to do the right thing with a little integrity. I've been Chair of the Audio Engineering Society up here and like to think I'm conditioned to strive for the truth rather than what I'd like to hear. I have to say reading some of these threads makes me feel like I'm involved in some kind of criminal activity.

I have a client in Toronto who's worked on some 20 or so Juno (Canadian Grammy-ish) nominees this year. He owns a couple original 47s and is far from deaf. He keeps setting them up for his engineer colleagues and saying... okay, 'here's $10K, here's 2K. What's the difference?' He's got a mint C-24 and P12 and does the same thing. Bless the guy, he's sold a lot of mics for me at no personal benefit. Heck, a legendary producer with 30 years experience was in my studio last month and I played him something I'd recorded with an LE and he said, "that's a U47 on the voice right?"... I haven't heard the Wunder (in a proper setting) or some of the other clones, though I've heard the Lawson and the Soundelux. I'm sure they're all decent enough mics. The ones that are known to be good are at a level where if something genius is happening in the studio you're not gonna go "DAMN! IF I ONLY HAD A ____ WE'D HAVE A RECORD HERE." I hope not at least. Surely cable, preamp, and placement choices (oh - and room and sound source) account for at least as substantial a difference as one might hear from mic to mic once you get into a certain quality ballpark.

I'd agree nobody pays the big bucks to go into a studio to see a Peluso in there. Even on a purely emotional level that's still true. I've talked to John Peluso about this and he's always said he never expected anyone to replace all their Neumanns. His original idea was to make something that almost anyone can afford so they can spend the rest of the 10K on other gear! But jeez, we've tried to do the due dilegence to come to some kind of understanding where the mic actually fits in the grand scope of what's out there. I agree completely that if you're going to buy a mic you need to do your own shootout and really listen and come to your own conclusions (I have a money back guarantee for that reason), but somebody please tell me if my conclusions are invalid for some reason I fail to understand despite my best efforts. Aside from all this, I really enjoy recording with the mic. I think I'd love the Wunder too.

So here's my question(s):

I know engineers who can hear a gnat pass wind across the room, so I'm really not trying to argue with anyone's ears, but the sum total of the evidence presented here really doesn't seem all that conclusive - and often based on "who cares" details like how the mic winds up in the shipping box - something nobody seems to dare ask Neumann.

Since no two U47s are exactly alike, how close is close enough? As close as any two U47s??? Is my acceptable scale too broad???

...mostly I'm wondering, at what point do any of these mics become so offensive that it warrants the sort of nastiness you see in these forums?
Old 14th August 2008
  #79
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Though I may be just speaking for myself (as a person who frequents Gearslutz), I think it just getting really old and redundant when the same old dealers pop into ANY and EVERY thread that relates to 'great' LDCs and preach the cult of Peluso.

I'm pretty sure they are great mics.
Old 14th August 2008
  #80
Here for the gear
 

Well you got me there.

I'm not really a frequent poster though. I'm guilty of being a lurker. I just had something to say today.

I almost didn't post for that exact reason. Guilty as charged.

Is that what it is?
Old 14th August 2008
  #81
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rbreen, you're definately not one of those that I was referring to, and your post was informative.

Honestly, lets just give our Peluso reps their own thread with the approprate rave up and make it a STICKY!
Old 14th August 2008
  #82
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Hahaha!

I'll try to control myself in the future.
Old 14th August 2008
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Though I may be just speaking for myself (as a person who frequents Gearslutz), I think it just getting really old and redundant when the same old dealers pop into ANY and EVERY thread that relates to 'great' LDCs and preach the cult of Peluso.

I'm pretty sure they are great mics.
But I'm not a dealer at all. You can get upset at dealers, but you have to be able to separate dealers from others who are saying the same thing. Then you have to ask yourself whether they really are FOS, or maybe, just maybe there's something to it. But to slam a product SIMPLY because a dealer says it's great is a little ridiculous.
Old 14th August 2008
  #84
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rbreen, I just have to say that my experience is completely different than yours. But I have to say, on some sources, when A/B'ing two different mics, like a M49 and U47, there's been times that they sound so close to each other. Does that mean that they are interchangeable? No way.

And I'm sorry, I know what that capsule sounds like. I've sat around with Dave Pearlman listening to various ones as he built mics. It sounds nothing like a K47 to my ears, and I'm simply baffled that all these esteemed professionals can't hear that. I mean, I sent out sound files with different vintage K47s in the same U47, and everybody I sent it to could hear the difference.

Again, I'm not saying that it's not a good mic, or not a great value. But I'm simply stunned that all these people aren't hearing what I'm hearing. Really. Maybe I shouldn't be.

BTW, I used to have a Blue 47, and I had a spare basket with a K67 that I would use on some people. It was a nice combination. I've had people hear a vocal I recorded with it and think it's a 47, when it had NOTHING in common with a 47, besides the body. And if I A/B'd that mic against my real 47 and you couldn't hear a difference, I'd be shocked.

Or for instance, I think a Bock 251 is the closest thing currently in production to a real 251, to my ears. The capsule is a pretty freaking close copy by one of the best capsule makers in the world. But I would never say they are interchangeable with a real one, about either the mic or the capsule. But at least he's going for an identical circuit, and trying to actually clone the thing. That's not the case with the 2247.

Like I said, the fact that people allegedly hear differences between vintage of op amps, manufacturers of tubes and transformers, and all sorts of stuff in boxes, but can't hear what are huge differences between capsules, tube type and transformer type in microphones is just blowing my mind.
Old 14th August 2008
  #85
Gear Nut
 

is there really that much of a difference...it seems the differences people talk about are so minute that even the most critical ears have trouble sorting them out.....as far as the Bock 251 how does it stand up to the Telefunken 251
Old 14th August 2008
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowan_rashard View Post
is there really that much of a difference...it seems the differences people talk about are so minute that even the most critical ears have trouble sorting them out.....
And that's the basic point. Yes, I'm sure there's a difference. I notice a difference. But I notice a difference in all mics, even original 47s when compared against each other. Yes, there's a certain depth and clarity in the originals. But my god it's a subtle difference.

The point? Is the difference in sonic character worth the difference in cost?
Old 14th August 2008
  #87
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Wow! Now I know why I don't hang out here as much as I used to.

The OP asked for a list of 3 mics that would cover his/her vocal duties, he never asked for a mic that sounds *exactly* like anything.

Back to the question:

I have several vocal mics that I love (U87, Gefell M7, Blue Bottle, etc.), and I think that the idea that has been presented about considering a changeable-head mic like the Korby or the Blue Bottle is a great idea... lots of versatility in a single mic.

FWIW, I just absolutely love a nice U67. Makes my titties hard!
Old 14th August 2008
  #88
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You can't go wrong with a shure sm7 as a general purpose mic in the studio.I would suggest that and one high end condensor (sony 300, akg c-12, ect.). A pair of Octava ml -52-01 ribbon mics (awesome guitar,bass and dark vocals) , and a bunch of shure sm57's, an akg D112 and Sure Beta 52 for kick, and a nice set of earthworks or shure sm81 for overheads.
Old 14th August 2008
  #89
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so joshua likes peluso. and because he likes peluso he decides to carry the line. good to sell what you personally back and believe in. but how is that any more of a sales pitch than the one dude who said that all major studios in the miami area have sony 800's and that they were needed to stay competitive?
if you don't like peluso cool...but why are you guys deliberately trying to start fights. opinions are like a**holes. everyone's got one. and everyone is entitled to one. it's up to the poster to sort through the advice everyone has given him and try things out and see what works for HIM.

p.s. my suggestion for all vocal needs? a behringer preamp with a radioshack mic. good to go! (just kidding)
Old 14th August 2008
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Though I may be just speaking for myself (as a person who frequents Gearslutz), I think it just getting really old and redundant when the same old dealers pop into ANY and EVERY thread that relates to 'great' LDCs and preach the cult of Peluso.
I'd been away from GS for a few years, and I have to say, you're spot on. But not just about Peluso. I can't believe how many freaking gear dealers are in here. It's insane. And they pop up in every thread pimping some line they carry.

And a few bad apples have tainted the way I view the opinions of all of them. I've heard guys that I really like and respect say X sounds just like Y, and after doing exhaustive tests myself with different results, I can only conclude that there's an agenda to pimp going on.

But that's symptomatic of the fundamental problem with this forum. Instead of guys saying, "Hey, how do I make better recordings with the gear I already own?" there's the delusion that gear, not technique, is what makes your recordings better. And so when you have guys with GAS, really wanting to spend money, of course the dealers are going to throw chum in the water.

I have a lot more gear than i did fifteen years ago, and my recordings are better, too. But it's not because I have more gear. Hmmmmm....
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