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Tape is back! :-) Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 11th August 2008
  #1
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Tape is back! :-)

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but a friend of mine just developed a new product that looks interesting... he has an "open house" at Ocean Way, here in Nashville, Thursday at 5:30pm... anxious to check it out in person. Could be VERY interesting! A friend of mine tracked a guitar session with it last Friday and said it worked flawlessly. Here are the links...

ENDLESS ANALOG







Old 11th August 2008
  #2
Dan
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The web page isn't very descriptive. What is it exactly? A synchronizer? So you don't record through the tape machine, but you listen through it? More info please.
Old 11th August 2008
  #3
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It looks like it`s transfering from the tape in realtime , so the Daw is recording from the actual tape and not just the reproheads?

Is that what it is? Not a very informative site.....

Thomas
Old 11th August 2008
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
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Sure, sounds interesting.

For me, tape problems is the expense of use, the maintenance and the bad processing possibilities.


The expense of use will be reduced
The bad processing possibilities will partly be reduced
The maintenance will not be reduced
The time it takes will be reduced.

A couple of Q's:

Is there an integrated AD converter, or will you need an external one?
How come you don't plug the mic preamps into the tape recorder as usual, is there some kind of connection between the CLASP unit and the tape? Why have you/he choosed to do it this way if that's the case?
How many inputs are there?
Is there a need to both press record on the tape and the DAW? or is there a connection between the DAW and the tape?
Old 11th August 2008
  #5
Harmless Wacko
 

Looks like it might be very cool.

First thing I've seen that is directed towards us "gotta have tape" guys.

Best,

SM.
Old 11th August 2008
  #6
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Well, I don't know much either, as Chris (the inventor) kept it under wraps from all of us for the past 3 years. :-) So, hopefully, I'll know more later this week. I DO know, for any Nashville folks interested, the debut this Thursday is open to the public. I know that Chuck Ainley is really into it and has tried it out (according to my friend who tracked a guitar session with Chris the other day...), and the president of AES is really into it (not sure if he's messed with it or not). Other than that, I'm as clueless as everyone else! :-) LOL
Old 11th August 2008
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasWho View Post
It looks like it`s transfering from the tape in realtime , so the Daw is recording from the actual tape and not just the reproheads?
I don't believe that that's possible.

It takes time to get the sound across the Repro heads and into the DAW.
Old 11th August 2008
  #8
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Tell me this is going to be like $10k so I won't have to care about it.
Old 11th August 2008
  #9
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sounds very interesting! but with no tape, no tape satur./comp/dist or?.. very curious on what will be revealed on thursday!..
Old 11th August 2008
  #10
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Might be this:

The Clasp machine records the signal digital (as a time reference + monitoring).

Now it also sends the analog signal to the tape machine. The tape machine gives the recorded signal back with latency. This is also digitized.

In the Clasp machine it's easy, to lay the 2 waveforms together. The only difference is some noise and some tape compression/coloration, the peaks are still at the same spots. So it calculates the latency.

Now the Clasp box sends the digital signal that came from the tape to say Cubase with the right latency number. So when you press stop... the recorded signal will be at the right spot. Don't press stop too soon.

I've made this up a long time ago, and wondered why nobody did it. It should be easy...

Anyway, might be something completely different!
Old 11th August 2008
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miqer View Post
Might be this:

The Clasp machine records the signal digital (as a time reference + monitoring).

Now it also sends the analog signal to the tape machine. The tape machine gives the recorded signal back with latency. This is also digitized.

In the Clasp machine it's easy, to lay the 2 waveforms together. The only difference is some noise and some tape compression/coloration, the peaks are still at the same spots. So it calculates the latency.

Now the Clasp box sends the digital signal that came from the tape to say Cubase with the right latency number. So when you press stop... the recorded signal will be at the right spot. Don't press stop too soon.

I've made this up a long time ago, and wondered why nobody did it. It should be easy...

Anyway, might be something completely different!
I used to do this manually with a Y cable. One Digital and one Analog. 2 tracks for every 1 you need. Mute the analog ones and shift them earlier to replace the digital ones. I hope this box does more than just that.
Old 11th August 2008
  #13
Gear Addict
 

Chris Estes is a client, and friend. He's been working on this for some time. Only last week did I see it in action, as he had me over for guitar overdubs.

The thing works. No hiccups, minimal (if any) latency.

It is not a tape simulator - signal is actually hitting tape. Output of the tape-machine repro heads goes straight to AD converters. All monitoring comes from the CLASP hardware.

Basic signal flow, (as I understand it):

Input: micpre > CLASP > tape > AD > DAW

Playback: DAW > CLASP

Again, input monitoring comes CLASP, pre-tape.

CLASP handles sync/latency between DAW, tape machine, and digital console (if applicable).

I'm gonna refrain from being the friend/gear-pimp. If you want to know more, come to Oceanway (Nashville) - this Thursday @ 5:30pm. Otherwise, watch the upcoming tutorial video.
Old 11th August 2008
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Tell me this is going to be like $10k so I won't have to care about it.

Could not agree more.......
Old 11th August 2008
  #15
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Would it come with a "small" tape machine too or you have to allready own a tape machine?
That would be pretty interesting!
What'd be cool is an 8 tracks tape recorder with a loop of tape inside of it that would only be used to get tape compresion, you'd have to replace the tape maybe once a year or something.
What would be nice too is if it would come in a small package, not a 700lb monster lol.
Old 11th August 2008
  #16
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I doubt it comes with a tape machine.
Old 11th August 2008
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleestack View Post
I doubt it comes with a tape machine.
I know...I'm just dreaming lol
I listened to some mixes I have done on 2" tape machine with a split console and even though at that time I didn't have as much skills as I have now, those mixes sounded so freaking good.
I didn't have to work with harshness and uncontrolable basses...
Old 11th August 2008
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
I listened to some mixes I have done on 2" tape machine with a split console and even though at that time I didn't have as much skills as I have now, those mixes sounded so freaking good.
I didn't have to work with harshness and uncontrolable basses...
If you have or use the correct high end preamps you should not have that issue with digital, you push tape volumes just like you push some preamps to get the same thing, harmonics my friend.
Old 11th August 2008
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
If you have or use the correct high end preamps you should not have that issue with digital, you push tape volumes just like you push some preamps to get the same thing, harmonics my friend.
That's exactly what I'm hoping to do in the near future cause at the moment I'm stucked with some ****ty mixer, I'm so eager to trash it!!

I'm thinking about api cause the price seems to be right, I tried a bae 1073 which I loved (only tested with vocal and direct bass), I liked it on vocal a lot but I can't afford more than one strip and I need to track drum so I think I'll go with a 3124, unless the lunchbox is really different, which seem to be unclear weither it's the same or not (except for the instrument input).
Then I'll try to add some more so I can get rid of that mixer.
I wish I could afford a 1608 or that new chandler they're working on!!
Old 11th August 2008
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
That's exactly what I'm hoping to do in the near future cause at the moment I'm stucked with some ****ty mixer, I'm so eager to trash it!!
I have been there done that, keep the thoughts that you have, a lunch box of goodies can make a great CD as well. Its so important to have great preamps in the mix, the rest just falls into place.
Old 11th August 2008
  #21
Gear Nut
 

Very interesting how off topic this just got!
Old 12th August 2008
  #22
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Wow! I'm impressed that someone has created something to solve a problem that can be easily be solved by a patchbay and a free plugin called Voxengo Latency Delay....and a tape deck of course. You don't need any special claptrap (or be tied to particular converters) to record with a tape deck to a DAW latency free. Here's some posts I made that details exactly how to do this.

Tracking through tape to daw or mixing to tape?

Building a studio designed specifically for drums... ideas on consoles?

If anyone needs more detailed instructions how they can implement this without buying special gear, please feel free to PM and I can walk you through it.

Brad
Old 12th August 2008
  #23
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Someone should bring the Anamod to Ocean way to be part of the blind (?) comparison. Anamod has no latency and you have the choice of multiple flavors (machine and tape brands), + no tape wear, no tape hiss (unless you want it).

I doubt they will allow it.

Edit: It looks like this CLASP thingy is just an more elegant way of syncing your tape machine to your DAW with automatic latency correction built in.
Old 12th August 2008
  #24
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QUOTE

Edit: It looks like this CLASP thingy is just an more elegant way of syncing your tape machine to your DAW with automatic latency correction built in. QUOTE


If it makes my life easier to work with tape and DAW's it sounds like good news to me.

Until more info (such as price) is released I'm going to reserve judgment
Old 12th August 2008
  #25
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not sure about the market for it. Not many have real tape machines. good ones.
your not going to sell many unless your coming out with a tape machine too.
I didnt real all the posts
Old 12th August 2008
  #26
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I know a couple people who are very impressed.
Old 12th August 2008
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by effectsnut View Post
not sure about the market for it. Not many have real tape machines. good ones.
your not going to sell many unless your coming out with a tape machine too.
I didnt real all the posts


there may not be many as an overall percentage using tape, but those who do and LIKE to do so would not turn a blind eye to a device that makes it easier to intergrate a DAW.

I don't even know the details yet, but I have an inkling that I'll buy one before the year is out.
Old 12th August 2008
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Wow! I'm impressed that someone has created something to solve a problem that can be easily be solved by a patchbay and a free plugin called Voxengo Latency Delay....and a tape deck of course.

you don't even need a plugin.

the following advice is free, but i'll gladly charge anyone a few grand to come to your room and set it up for you. i'll call it SHILL, for Simplified Humanized Interface Latency Lockup.

most every daw has a setting in the audio prefs for a 'recording offset', where you manually enter a number of samples and every track you record is automatically shifted forward or back by that number of samples.

play a kick track thru the tape and record it back into your a/d, then see how much you have to nudge until the recorded kick is lined up with the original. that's your recording offset; enter it once, and everything lines up forevermore the instant you hit stop.

mult whatever is feeding the input of your tape deck, monitor that feed while recording the repro output. ZERO latency.

i say all this not having a clue what CLASP actually is or does, and i'm okay with that, because there's a website and uberslick video which gave me absolutely no information. since i'm not gonna be in nashville anytime soon i'll do what any self-respecting internet mook would do: speculate.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 12th August 2008
  #29
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I applaud anything that helps people rediscover the wonders of tape. I just hope after Thursday they put up some more info so we know what the heck it does ????
Old 12th August 2008
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
you don't even need a plugin.

the following advice is free, but i'll gladly charge anyone a few grand to come to your room and set it up for you. i'll call it SHILL, for Simplified Humanized Interface Latency Lockup.

most every daw has a setting in the audio prefs for a 'recording offset', where you manually enter a number of samples and every track you record is automatically shifted forward or back by that number of samples.

play a kick track thru the tape and record it back into your a/d, then see how much you have to nudge until the recorded kick is lined up with the original. that's your recording offset; enter it once, and everything lines up forevermore the instant you hit stop.

mult whatever is feeding the input of your tape deck, monitor that feed while recording the repro output. ZERO latency.

i say all this not having a clue what CLASP actually is or does, and i'm okay with that, because there's a website and uberslick video which gave me absolutely no information. since i'm not gonna be in nashville anytime soon i'll do what any self-respecting internet mook would do: speculate.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Greg,

Your method only works if you only want to record all simultaneous tracks to tape. My method is a little friendlier when you want to have some of your tracks go to tape and the rest go directly to the DAW. The record offset feature is a blanket offset. Obviously if you have some tape tracks (say you have an 8-track deck that you only want on the drums) and some direct to DAW tracks, then you need different delay settings for those two sets of tracks. Hence my use of Voxengo Lantency Delay.

As far as I can tell the only thing that the CLASP does for you is allow you to only have to press one record button. I'm also going to speculate that it automatically rewinds your tape deck for you when you get to the end of the tape. That's probably why you see "15:00" on the plugin...

Brad
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