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Tape is back! :-) Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 12th August 2008
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMac View Post
there may not be many as an overall percentage using tape, but those who do and LIKE to do so would not turn a blind eye to a device that makes it easier to intergrate a DAW.

I don't even know the details yet, but I have an inkling that I'll buy one before the year is out.
Why not hook up your tape deck with tools that are already available? (See my other posts). You don't need the CLASP technology to make all this happen.

Brad
Old 12th August 2008
  #32
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I'll be going to the demo on Thursday. PM me if you want me to let you know what I think.
Old 12th August 2008
  #33
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Wow

The idea seems logical.

I joined the mailing list & I hope it more info pours about from there.

for a guy who configs patchbays and wiring, this seems like a fun item to implement.
Old 12th August 2008
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMac View Post
there may not be many as an overall percentage using tape, but those who do and LIKE to do so would not turn a blind eye to a device that makes it easier to intergrate a DAW.

I don't even know the details yet, but I have an inkling that I'll buy one before the year is out.
who is making new Tape Machines?
Old 12th August 2008
  #35
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The point is it's supposed to make it all happen as fast and transparently to a session as if you were using a plug-in.
Old 13th August 2008
  #36
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Your method only works if you only want to record all simultaneous tracks to tape.

it's true, i did assume people play an all-or-nothing game with tracking to tape. tape is my heroin, and i forget that not everyone craves it all the time.


gregoire
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Old 13th August 2008
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Greg,

Your method only works if you only want to record all simultaneous tracks to tape. My method is a little friendlier when you want to have some of your tracks go to tape and the rest go directly to the DAW. The record offset feature is a blanket offset. Obviously if you have some tape tracks (say you have an 8-track deck that you only want on the drums) and some direct to DAW tracks, then you need different delay settings for those two sets of tracks. Hence my use of Voxengo Lantency Delay.

As far as I can tell the only thing that the CLASP does for you is allow you to only have to press one record button. I'm also going to speculate that it automatically rewinds your tape deck for you when you get to the end of the tape. That's probably why you see "15:00" on the plugin...

Brad

I assume these are the methods most people are using now, but still you have timing differences in long runs like a song due to inaccuracy in tape recorders transport. It can be phase problems or worse, but sure it happens. That`s what the CLASP seems to address... it compares the waveform to make them align... I suppose it adjusts speeds in one of the two systems... otherwise you´re both right and is a solution for an easy problem. I hope not to be missing something.
Old 13th August 2008
  #38
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...why do some guys here want to piss on this guys parade, before he even gets outta the box? dfegad i applaud anyone who goes through all the pains to develop a tech advancement, especially when it involves the best recording medium, tape, and the best storage/manipulation medium, digital.
all you dweebs with their Y cords and latency plugs can continue to bash about in your caves!
Old 14th August 2008
  #39
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I'm sorry, but...My monkey brain half understands what this thing is really supposed to do in terms of making the recording process easier.

I'd rather just record to tape and dump the tracks into software editable files.

Spending a whole bunch more money to 'sync' things in real-time because a new product has come to market sounds like more time dealing with gear and less time recording music.

Record, rewind, dub, dump (once finished tracking), oh and anybody hear of Melodyne? I'm a vintage nut, but software has come a long way in making things easier.

So this is a device asking for somebody to bring in interest after you spend $3000 base for 16 channels of conversion on top of whatever you paid for your tape machine, plus patchbay config. If I buy anything new, I try heading ITB since that's where everything seems to be headed anyway. Plus there's less routing issues which tend to slow me down more than anything else.

Props to trying to bring tape into the future, but I still need to pay off my machine.

Just my 2 bits of conversion,
-soup
Old 15th August 2008
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

well??

So did any of you guys check this thing out ?? if so what are your thoughts!?
Old 15th August 2008
  #41
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tape was gone"

hello,

tape was gone? its back? where was it? why were we not notified earlier?


userofgear
Old 15th August 2008
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but a friend of mine just developed a new product that looks interesting... he has an "open house" at Ocean Way, here in Nashville, Thursday at 5:30pm... anxious to check it out in person. Could be VERY interesting! A friend of mine tracked a guitar session with it last Friday and said it worked flawlessly. Here's the link...

ENDLESS ANALOG

Not to be aggrevating - but for those who want the sound of tape just buy a tape deck and forget all this non-sense.
Old 15th August 2008
  #43
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Well, I was there, and I was more than impressed! Basically, here's what I understood/ saw of the demonstration...

You use your tape machine alongside your DAW of choice. Based on how the CLASP box and software works, your tape machine is pretty much constantly in record and running, all tracks enabled. By doing this, it's recording signal to tape and bringing it back through your converters to your DAW. What's interesting is that this makes it possible to do "retrospective recording" just like your DAW, you only use one reel of tape per album/ recording project, etc. It has a post-roll function, which allows you to move around on your DAW as quickly as ever, without overworking your tape transport. Basically, you are cutting to tape, bringing it back immediately to your DAW, and working as quickly as you ever did with your DAW, with all of the same great functions of your DAW, almost forgetting that you even have tape rolling, other than the sound of analog!

It's hard to describe... it's almost something you need to see to fully understand, but it worked flawlessly, sounded great, makes your tape machine incredibly fast, cuts tape costs, etc. Nothing but smiles and positive comments from me! heh
Old 15th August 2008
  #44
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

tape was gone? its back? where was it? why were we not notified earlier?


Exactly.
Old 15th August 2008
  #45
w2w
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And as always,the $64,000 question.....How much is this new breakthrough going to cost??
Old 15th August 2008
  #46
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I can't imagine how a reel of tape could last an entire project!!! You'd be loosing HF after only a few passes. And I would think that constantly running would wear out your heads in nothing flat. Other than that, it sounds cool.
Old 15th August 2008
  #47
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Why not just track to tape and then dump to digital? Seems a lot more logical.
Old 15th August 2008
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Well, I was there, and I was more than impressed! Basically, here's what I understood/ saw of the demonstration...

You use your tape machine alongside your DAW of choice. Based on how the CLASP box and software works, your tape machine is pretty much constantly in record and running, all tracks enabled.
Tape is running/recording when the DAW is playing and a track is armed on the DAW. No need to rewind the tape, except when you come to the end of the reel.

Calibration between DAW/hardware/tape machine was done via software. Took about two seconds. After that, the DAW is running the tape machine. Work as usual.
Old 15th August 2008
  #49
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Levi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Why not just track to tape and then dump to digital? Seems a lot more logical.
Because this is soooooo much faster... no stop/ rewind times, no recording/ punching to the same part of the tape (so no wearing out the tape), this records IMMEDIATELY from tape to your DAW (no need for transferring from tape to DAW later), etc. It's truly a fantastic setup.
Old 15th August 2008
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisgraff View Post
Tape is running/recording when the DAW is playing and a track is armed on the DAW. No need to rewind the tape, except when you come to the end of the reel.

Calibration between DAW/hardware/tape machine was done via software. Took about two seconds. After that, the DAW is running the tape machine. Work as usual.
I suppose if I had this, I'd never use my 2 inch 24 track heads, just the 16s, and I might consider different bias specs track to track in order to maximize variety. Sounds fun and quick.

Can it work with several tape machines at once? could be fun to have the MM1200 working alongside a heavily manipulated, extremely overbiased second machine. Maybe a two track, even.
Old 15th August 2008
  #51
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quiet, taping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I can't imagine how a reel of tape could last an entire project!!! You'd be loosing HF after only a few passes. And I would think that constantly running would wear out your heads in nothing flat. Other than that, it sounds cool.
hello,

yes, does anybody understand how it works as far as using one reel of tape over and over again, if that is what it does?

userofgear
Old 15th August 2008
  #52
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looked into the link - it's interesting, however it still seems to me that (what was mentioned earlier in this thread) - at some point you will have saturated all tracks of your tape - from head to tails and you'll need to rewind to start again - and at that point your erasing and re-recording - even a few generations will start to wear the tape - not to mention putting a great deal of focus on how well the erase head functions.

bulk erasing a used tape (albeit a bulk eraser for 2" 24t?) - a better idea if you determined to track to analog and then transfer to DAW? I know that is still OT of CLASP - but had to throw it out there.

Hobson
Old 15th August 2008
  #53
Here for the gear
 

missed boat

I think a lot of you are missing the point. I have now seen many demos of the product and is quite amazing. BUT, you do need a good machine and good tape. I think those that have used tape before will realize that you punch in many times, so of course tape wears out, but not after many passes. The tape does not archive, it passes the audio to the DAW.

This in not a Tape-sim plugin. It's recording what's coming off of the tape.

The only way to "get it" is to view it in action. Hardly anybody I know understands until they see it live. I hear a video will be forthcoming on the website and tonight's demo will be uploaded to youtube.

I have no affiliation with the product, just an admirer of the technology. This is ground breaking and I've been around the industry for a long time. Most of the top engineers in Nashville have seen it and have already started getting things going to order.

Chris also stated tonight that this is not for a project studio. This is meant for Pro studios. Lots of these studios have tape machines gathering dust. I'm thinking that Quad, Ocean Way, Sound Stage, will be the first orders.

My advice - don't judge the book until you've read it.
Old 15th August 2008
  #54
Here for the gear
 

missed boat correction

I should have said "some of the top engineers" in Nashville from the above post. I'm trying to stay accurate.

I should add that most of the participants in the demo were quite impressed.
Old 15th August 2008
  #55
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooster View Post
all you dweebs with their Y cords and latency plugs can continue to bash about in your caves!

that's been my plan all along!

thumbsup


gregoire
del
ubk
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Old 15th August 2008
  #56
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimoSound View Post
Chris also stated tonight that this is not for a project studio. This is meant for Pro studios. Lots of these studios have tape machines gathering dust. I'm thinking that Quad, Ocean Way, Sound Stage, will be the first orders.

i couldn't care less whether it's revolutionary or redundant... if this thing actually gets places like Ocean Way to dust off their decks and patch them back in, i'm 1000% for it.


gregoire
del
ubk
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Old 15th August 2008
  #57
Gear Addict
 

virgin tape

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimoSound View Post
I think a lot of you are missing the point. I have now seen many demos of the product and is quite amazing. BUT, you do need a good machine and good tape. I think those that have used tape before will realize that you punch in many times, so of course tape wears out, but not after many passes. The tape does not archive, it passes the audio to the DAW.

This in not a Tape-sim plugin. It's recording what's coming off of the tape.

The only way to "get it" is to view it in action. Hardly anybody I know understands until they see it live. I hear a video will be forthcoming on the website and tonight's demo will be uploaded to youtube.

I have no affiliation with the product, just an admirer of the technology. This is ground breaking and I've been around the industry for a long time. Most of the top engineers in Nashville have seen it and have already started getting things going to order.

Chris also stated tonight that this is not for a project studio. This is meant for Pro studios. Lots of these studios have tape machines gathering dust. I'm thinking that Quad, Ocean Way, Sound Stage, will be the first orders.

My advice - don't judge the book until you've read it.

hello,

i think we are pretty much willing to keep an open mind about the product, and most of us like tape, and would like for it to be a good, usable product.

however, something about the situation appears unecessarily vague everyone is tired of the "well come into the store with money, and we'll explain it to you then". there is nothing wrong with asking a few simple questions in good faith.

from what little anybody has been able to say, the product appears to include the idea of using one reel of tape for an entire project. that is weird, basically. we all know that you can erase and overdub, or even reuse a tape, usually once, if necessary. but nobody usually re-records over the same reel of tape 20 or 30 times. the audio would start to degrade at some point way before that.

so maybe there is something that i am just not understanding about it, but mostly i do not understand why this piece of information is not being provided clearly, or at all. if they have figured out a way to use a reel of tape like that for an estended period of time, and it works, great, just explain it to us. or say, "no, you are going to have to buy the same amount of tape as if you were recording normally to tape}. that is no big deal for people who use tape.

whatever, but what's with the unwillingness to explain?

i hope it works, i like tape. if anyone knows any more about it, let us know. or we should just drop the thread, wait until it is available, with a manual to download, and read about it then.


userofgear
Old 15th August 2008
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by userofgear View Post
hello,

from what little anybody has been able to say, the product appears to include the idea of using one reel of tape for an entire project. that is weird, basically. we all know that you can erase and overdub, or even reuse a tape, usually once, if necessary. but nobody usually re-records over the same reel of tape 20 or 30 times. the audio would start to degrade at some point way before that.
userofgear
Would you use 20 or 30 reels of tape one one project?!?!?
Old 15th August 2008
  #59
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As for the tape degradation situation, here's what I've heard (a producer friend who talked to Chris directly)...

Quantegy is making a special tape for this process. It will hold up a bit longer than traditional tape, but, since you're not archiving the tape, it will not hold up over time, nor will there be a need for it to. As for the recording to tape and it wearing out, this CLASP process runs the tape from top to bottom. Let's say you have a 3 minute song. You are not recording the song on the same 3 minutes of tape. You are recording the 3 minute song over the whole length of tape... the machine stays in record mode, on all tracks, until you disable record on your DAW. So, if you're tracking a full project of 24 tracks (drums, guitars, vocals, etc. all at once) then yes, you will be using a lot more of the tape's actually space throughout the whole reel and it will probably wear more quickly than if you're doing overdubs, where you'll be recording to parts of tape here and there. Once you RTZ, the next pass "might" record over your first passes, it might miss and hit new tape.

Here's an example of an overdub situation... let's say you're doing a guitar solo. You enable the guitar track in your DAW and start the song. The tape and your DAW begins at 1:00. Let's say you punch in the solo at 1:10 and out at 1:20. The guitar player missed it, so you decide to record it again. You start your DAW again and you'll punch at 1:10 on your DAW, but it might be 1:31 on your tape machine. Let's say the guitar player got everything except the notes between 1:16 and 1:20. You punch at 1:16 and out at 1:20 on your DAW, but that might be 1:43 to 1:47 on your tape machine. As you can see, there is space between the takes on your tape machine, and you haven't cut to the same spot of tape 3 times. Also, because the tape stays in record, you have retrospect record, so you can "peel back" the audio in your DAW, making a perfect punch, just as you would in digital. REMEMBER: You are not trying to cut perfect tracks in time to tape. You are using tape strictly for the analog tape sound. You use your DAW to be your final "here are the finished tracks, all lined up and perfect" machine. I hope that makes a little sense. It's something you need to see to wrap your head around it.

And yes, from what I understand listening to Chris last night, the CLASP unit can run three 24-track machines at the same time... you can set one to 15 ips, one to 30 ips, and one at 7.5, or any combination you desire... all running perfectly in sync with one another and your DAW.

Again, you have to think of CLASP in this fashion... you are capturing your signal to tape and bringing it instantaneously into your DAW, with all the benefits of speed and editing and retrospect recording, rather than treating your DAW as just a transport to run a tape machine, with traditional time code and MMC, recording on the same area of tape over and over, and then just transferring it into digital at the end. Again, I hope this makes a little sense. It's worth seeing and considering for any tape lovers who have been missing analog, and I'd say that's a lot of folks!
Old 15th August 2008
  #60
Gear Addict
 

tapeage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Wound you use 20 or 30 reels of tape one one project?!?!?

hello,

well, yeah, sometimes. more than that maybe. depends on how many songs, how long they are, and so forth. there are slave reels too, remember. it adds up if you are going for it.

anyhow, my point was that nobody [or i guess i shouldn't say "nobody", but most people] do not use tape that has already been recorded on [usually hot these days] several times already for a new project. i don't know what everyone does and i am not trying to disrespect the product by any means. it is one of those "that's interesting" things but there is a certain amount of ambiguity in what is being stated.

could be real cool. let's hope.


userofgear
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