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High End Stereo Bus Compression Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 16th August 2008
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post
Youve also said that even the original units don't do it for you out of the console. Is that still true for you? Is there anything that gives you that magic emotionally ssl comp style as far as outboard? And not necessarily the exact same, but glue and punch satisfaction?
Again for me its just that i am used to hearing the sound as a whole and compensating for it on the console. Anyone that's mixed alot on SSL consoles knows what i am taking about. I mean i've mixed songs through that thing starting from the prepro stage right down to the end. The whole system is a sound all its own.

I think on a parallel drumbuss its a different story. I think on a drumbuss they all can do the SSL punchy drumbuss thing, in their own way. You just have to get used to the different tone.

But have i heard anything(SSL clones) that works & sounds the same on the mixbuss? Nope not really. But i gave up on that years ago. These days i use what works best for me. 2 comps in serial, one gives me the tone and the other the push, with EQ's to finish it off. I have a home job SSL clone that i built for drumbuss parallel when i need it.
Old 16th August 2008
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Again for me its just that i am used to hearing the sound as a whole and compensating for it on the console. Anyone that's mixed alot on SSL consoles knows what i am taking about. I mean i've mixed songs through that thing starting from the prepro stage right down to the end. The whole system is a sound all its own.

I think on a parallel drumbuss its a different story. I think on a drumbuss they all can do the SSL punchy drumbuss thing, in their own way. You just have to get used to the different tone.

But have i heard anything(SSL clones) that works & sounds the same on the mixbuss? Nope not really. But i gave up on that years ago. These days i use what works best for me. 2 comps in serial, one gives me the tone and the other the push, with EQ's to finish it off. I have a home job SSL clone that i built for drumbuss parallel when i need it.
THANKS! That what I thought you would say- as well as HOPED you would say! I need a super punchy compressor and don't want to overpay for an SSL when I keep thinking others can do a great job as well... I almost did once, and am really glad I did not! Ive never used an SSL console only Neve and Trident (not that Im complaining!) But I do dance tracks GALORE...

Plus I want to see what the new Neve 2254s end up sounding like so the more money the better! Im afraid those are gonna cost me... TWICE!heh
Old 16th August 2008
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post

Plus I want to see what the new Neve 2254s end up sounding like so the more money the better! Im afraid those are gonna cost me... TWICE!heh
Well i can tell you from experience that the 2254's are far from punchy. They are more on the softer and vibier side, so if you are hoping for something punchy you will be disappointed.
Old 16th August 2008
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Well i can tell you from experience that the 2254's are far from punchy. They are more on the softer and vibier side, so if you are hoping for something punchy you will be disappointed.
No, no, no! I want those TOO thats why I need MORE money! I want a punchy AND those! Thats gonna be a pocketbook breaker...

Or at least to check those out, I cant say yet! They keep saying October...


I just got a 33609JD so sadly punchy needs to happen first...
Old 16th August 2008
  #65
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jslstrat's Avatar
 

After

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice View Post
Do you guys start your mixes with the buss comp on or do you add it later at the end?
I do it at the end. what about u?
I try to get the mix sounding really good then add after. And It always seems to obviously sound better. I play guitar and on the heavy side of things. I am thinking of the obs that Fletcher recommends.
Old 16th August 2008
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
For some reason i was expecting a tone monster.

the name certainly implies it. hell, the company name starts with 'drama'. what i heard of them didn't move me much either, if that's worth anything to anyone.

but i'm more in a vac-rac way these days, so take it all with a grain of salt.


gregoire
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ubk
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Old 16th August 2008
  #67
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Does anyone have opinions on Manley VM for Electronic beats ?
Old 16th August 2008
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
Does anyone have opinions on Manley VM for Electronic beats ?
it might be good to warm up things a bit. but other than that probably it would be too slow.
the fastest attack time is around 25 ms.
this is great if you want to keep the bass pumping and breathing, as it is not flattening the attacks of the kickdrum. but the vari-mu is definetely not the right tool when you want to achieve a tight and aggressive sound by shaping the attack and release behaviour of single drum events. then you would need much faster time constants.
Old 16th August 2008
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Tried the Dramastic Obsidian today.

One thing that suprised me about it is how transparent it is, even at the extreme settings.

Bottomn line: If you want the glue of an SSL mixbuss comp without the sonic artifacts this is a good contender. The skull and cross bone setting is a bonus.
Cool.. Sounds like i would dig it.. Aggressive and punchy like the SSL / Smart but doesn't mess the sound up.

Thanks for the review. thumbsup

Also thinking about the Tonelux TXC which has the mix function
which seems pretty cool.
Old 16th August 2008
  #70
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Lotsa budget - Vertigo VSC-2
Mid-budget SSL, dbx 160sl
LowBudget SSL-Clone


Rock on!
Pat
Old 16th August 2008
  #71
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The thing is about 2bus comps is that after awhile you really begin to recognize the sound of the unit. Then this "sameness" will start to bug you. It is inevitable that you will get bored and want to try something new.

My personal favorite is the API 2500, but you freaking notice that sound - sometimes I'm sick of it.
Old 16th August 2008
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
it might be good to warm up things a bit. but other than that probably it would be too slow.
the fastest attack time is around 25 ms.
this is great if you want to keep the bass pumping and breathing, as it is not flattening the attacks of the kickdrum. but the vari-mu is definetely not the right tool when you want to achieve a tight and aggressive sound by shaping the attack and release behaviour of single drum events. then you would need much faster time constants.
Intresting .. is there any mod that can be dont to unit ?

I know a big Psy-Trance producer who uses the VM on 90% of his tracks, but it might be just for warming ..
Old 16th August 2008
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos View Post
Intresting .. is there any mod that can be dont to unit ?

I know a big Psy-Trance producer who uses the VM on 90% of his tracks, but it might be just for warming ..
vari-mu comps usually tend to be on the slower side of things.
however, if you are looking for a mix buss compressor for dance music i would suggest to concentrate on comps with a sidechain filter, be it vari-mu or vca or whatever. it helps a lot to get the bass drums out of the way.

there is a very interesting vari-mu comp that has just been released a couple of months ago. it's a very boutique german unit with some extremely interesting features. probably it's the fastest vari-mu comp on the market. i tried it myself, it can almost be as aggressive as an 1176. however, it's expensive.
it's name is "rockruepel" which would translate as "rock rogue"... heh

YouTube - Rockruepel and guido Apke

the video is in german, but you'll get an idea...

that's a very interesting unit. it can sound pretty smooth and elegant, but you can also get it to distort in an absolutely pleasing way. you can easily achieve 5 db of gain reduction only by overdriving the output stage, while the compressor circuit itself is hardly working at all. and still it wouldn't sound "distorted", you're only driving the transients into soft clipping.
Old 16th August 2008
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmate View Post
vari-mu comps usually tend to be on the slower side of things.
however, if you are looking for a mix buss compressor for dance music i would suggest to concentrate on comps with a sidechain filter, be it vari-mu or vca or whatever. it helps a lot to get the bass drums out of the way.

there is a very interesting vari-mu comp that has just been released a couple of months ago. it's a very boutique german unit with some extremely interesting features. probably it's the fastest vari-mu comp on the market. i tried it myself, it can almost be as aggressive as an 1176. however, it's expensive.
it's name is "rockruepel" which would translate as "rock rogue"... heh

YouTube - Rockruepel and guido Apke

the video is in german, but you'll get an idea...

that's a very interesting unit. it can sound pretty smooth and elegant, but you can also get it to distort in an absolutely pleasing way. you can easily achieve 5 db of gain reduction only by overdriving the output stage, while the compressor circuit itself is hardly working at all. and still it wouldn't sound "distorted", you're only driving the transients into soft clipping.
Thanks thumbsup, ill check it. I'm using the C2 on the 2buss ad getting 2500 soon .. but who know the 2500 choice might change ..
Old 16th August 2008
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
nope!


gregoire
del
ubk
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nope2 heh
Old 17th August 2008
  #76
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While it might seem a little to 'lo-brow' and perhaps not esoteric enough for this group, I can recommend the Tube-Tech LCA-2B as a very transparent 2-buss compressor. Also great for tracking as dual mono unit. It's VERY hard to hear what it's doing, but things get a certain warm flavor and sparkle thru it, and difficult to tell when it's limiting without looking at the return meters...

Not your 'effect-ey' unit, tub-ey and musical, extremely dependable, and can be cost effective even if you get a broken used one - they have a SUPERB repair service with IMMEDIATE turnaround.

Buy it broken on eBay for less than half price, get it repaired to original spec for $600, or tuned up for even less.

I know 'cause I had to ship one and UPS trashed it... came back immaculate...

- h.
Old 17th August 2008
  #77
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reading back over my words, i just want to clarify that the dramastic was pretty kick ass at what it did, which is (to my ears) make things really punch thru in a hard, smacky kinda way, and it doesn't fubar the tone.

i'm just in more of a gooey place these days, favoring sounds on the rounder/squishier tip, and i'm very much into things that soften and thicken the tone. hence my penchant for 225's, fatso's, and vac-rac's.

if i were doing anything remotely in the vein of the tla/cla thing, i'd probably consider comps like the obsidian to be mandatory placekeepers in my rack, so as always, choose your tools wisely.


gregoire
del
ubk
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Old 17th August 2008
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
reading back over my words, i just want to clarify that the dramastic was pretty kick ass at what it did, which is (to my ears) make things really punch thru in a hard, smacky kinda way, and it doesn't fubar the tone.

.
Dude what happened?

Did you get a PM from a dealer chastising your opinion and threatening to take your gear privileges away?

If you don't say something nice we are going to take our toys back out of the sandbox?heh

Its ok not to like something right? I mean if we have to like everything than what a boring profession this will be.
Old 17th August 2008
  #79
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u b k's Avatar
 

no, what i actually got was a rather polite request from a certain lovable curmudgeon to at least clarify what i didn't like rather than being vague.

seemed reasonable enough to me.

except now i got two curmudgeons on my ass.


gregoire
del
ubk
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Old 17th August 2008
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
no, what i actually got was a rather polite request from a certain lovable curmudgeon to at least clarify what i didn't like rather than being vague.

seemed reasonable enough to me.

except now i got two curmudgeons on my ass.


gregoire
del
ubk
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Wow man i was just kidding!!!

The thought crossed my mind, but i was like nah. I guess as they say where there is smoke there is...
Old 17th August 2008
  #81
AB3
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Great music often combines opposing elements. Legato and staccato. I find it necessary to have a neutral comp, a thickening comp and a snappy comp. I would not just want one type.


Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
reading back over my words, i just want to clarify that the dramastic was pretty kick ass at what it did, which is (to my ears) make things really punch thru in a hard, smacky kinda way, and it doesn't fubar the tone.

i'm just in more of a gooey place these days, favoring sounds on the rounder/squishier tip, and i'm very much into things that soften and thicken the tone. hence my penchant for 225's, fatso's, and vac-rac's.

if i were doing anything remotely in the vein of the tla/cla thing, i'd probably consider comps like the obsidian to be mandatory placekeepers in my rack, so as always, choose your tools wisely.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 17th August 2008
  #82
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numrologst's Avatar
I've not found better than the zener on the mix bus
Old 17th August 2008
  #83
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AB3 View Post
I find it necessary to have a neutral comp, a thickening comp and a snappy comp.

i'm with you, a lot of music demands a blend; some of my favorite records are all snap, and though i probably would have produced them differently, i wouldn't change them for the world.

i think the current king of modern snappy comps is the mpressor, which is more of a 'thwack' whereas the ssl types are more of a 'crack'. the crack types tend to hit my ears harder in the 4-6k range, which i'm extremely sensitive to. thwack is a low mid thing, it hits in the gut rather than the face. i like that.


gregoire
del
ubk
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Old 17th August 2008
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
If you want to hear the buss compression then I'd recommend a Smart Reseach C-2 or a Vintage Design CL1-mkII... if you're looking for something where you can have the choice of hearing it or not hearing it then check out an API 2500 or a Dramastic Audio "Obsidian" [the "Obsidian" being the more versatile of the two.

If you're looking for something that will give you kind of an "overall mojo" without necessarily hearing the compression then an InnerTUBE Audio "Dual Atomic Squeezebox" or a D.W. Fearn VT-7 should do the trick... or if you're looking for something that will reduce the dynamic range without necessarily inflicting an "opinion" on your work then the Crane Song LTD. "STC-8" or the GML 8900 might very well be your weapons of choice.

There are a myriad of options that will fit YOUR music and YOUR sense of aesthetic... your job is to find the box that is right for you [I've found the ones that are right for me... and other people on this (and other) forum(s) have found the ones that "are right for them.

Bottom line... there is no shortage of options... try a bunch and you can make an educated decision from there.

Peace.

I'm surprised you don't mention the drawmer 1968...or you think it doesn't suit the original poster's needs?
It has this mix of cleanliness and attitude but it has been around for awhile now, not 'flavour of the month'...
Old 17th August 2008
  #85
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Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by baikonour View Post
I'm surprised you don't mention the drawmer 1968...or you think it doesn't suit the original poster's needs?
It has this mix of cleanliness and attitude but it has been around for awhile now, not 'flavour of the month'...
If I had mentioned it I would have mentioned it in the section where I addressed "not hearing the compression while the unit adds an overall 'mojo'" [where I talked about the Fearn VT-7 and the Dual Atomic Squeezebox]... however, I think those two units do a far better job of what I described than the 1968.

FWIW, I can't afford the InnerTUBE or the Fearn units... I've used them both quite a bit but just don't have the money to add them to the arsenal. On about 85-90% of my mixes the 1968 is the buss compressor I use... but if I had the money, it would be the Fearn or the InnerTUBE unit.

Peace.
Old 17th August 2008
  #86
Gear Head
 
Jeancab's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by binsys View Post
While it might seem a little to 'lo-brow' and perhaps not esoteric enough for this group, I can recommend the Tube-Tech LCA-2B as a very transparent 2-buss compressor. Also great for tracking as dual mono unit. It's VERY hard to hear what it's doing, but things get a certain warm flavor and sparkle thru it...
thumbsup
+1,
versatile and underrated unit, IMO...
Old 18th August 2008
  #87
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nobody's talking about any of the comp's I use on the mix buss, so I'll throw 'em in there (and await my lashing!)

1. Shadow Hills Mastering comp. Totally sick. The VCA side is very C2 like, but feels more open/wide to me. Add what the Opto side does (comes first in the chain) and you have a very wide range of 'soft' to 'spanky' types of compression to work with. Plus the HPF side-chain is key for kick-drum friendly mixes. Very slutty.

2. Tube Tech SMC-2B. I don't use it as often, but its very good at making a mix with a couple of 'problems' play nice. Also really great when mixing for TV... a very consistent amount of treble is so crucial.

3. Avalon 2044. I preferred it in listening tests to the Chandler TG1 and 33609J. More transparent, fantastic control, great high end and image-- and the way it reacts to the lows is smooth and musical. I bought for tracking, but its been great on the buss as well. And I'm not a huge Avalon fan either- I got rid of my 737 a long long time ago. But that comp is here to stay.
Old 18th August 2008
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
no, what i actually got was a rather polite request from a certain lovable curmudgeon to at least clarify what i didn't like rather than being vague.

.
O....K.....

Good eye, Thrill......
Old 18th August 2008
  #89
Gear Maniac
 

3 gushy choices for me
- STC-8
- thermionic culture pheonix
- elysia alpha

All rediculously good in their own way
Old 18th August 2008
  #90
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Well, I guess I'll further muddy the waters. I like what a lot of you are suggesting. I haven't read every post and maybe someone has already suggested this, but what about the Pendulum OCL2? It does all those things, glue-ing, smoothing, even bringing out some nice punch, as well as adding a subtle but audible euphonic quality to the sound.
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