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pro tool hd purchase this week, am I a idiot?
Old 11th February 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 

pro tool hd purchase this week, am I a idiot?

Hey guys,
over the last few weeks you have answered many questions for me, and this week (friday) I will purchase a HDIII, pro control, plug-ins and rack gear.
I know that one must take chances in life or else what the F--k is the piont. I have projects lined up, but times are troubling and nothing is a sure bet.
Would you hold and wait a while or go for it and work your ass off doing the best you could? again no sure bets. If i tune my chops on pro tools and then have to sell it all down the road......
I know there are +/- to everything........Stop me before I jump.

Sincerely,
The fool on the hill
Old 11th February 2003
  #2
The thing I learned too slowly was to get a real project in as soon as possible.

I had PT & a ProControl in my living room for a year and hardly used it. (shamefully true) It wasn't untill I found a band to record that I really got going on it. (and they got signed off my first attempt with the gear!)

I had a LOT on that year and perhaps it was me....I am VERY goal orientated. No goal, no work gets started.

Line up work ASAP, paid or unpaid. I found I NEEDED it to get started.

Old 11th February 2003
  #3
jho
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Jump on in, the water is fine!!
Old 11th February 2003
  #4
Any lead time where you don't have a project should be spent honing your Pro Tools skills. After 8 years I'm still slow on PT because I've been using it professionally the whole time and haven't had any downtime to sit with the manual and learn the short cuts.
I've seen other people flying about it 5 times faster than me.
Old 11th February 2003
  #5
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: pro tool hd purchase this week, am I a idiot?

Quote:
Originally posted by renshen
.Stop me before I jump.

l
Go ahead and jump. Any choice you make in this world and particularly this business is fraught with risk. That's what makes it exciting. Even the wrong choices can take you further down the big road.

That is a big boatload of technology--don't expect it to automatically yield up great music. Like Jules said, get some projects going ASAP. (I mean who really sits around all day with manuals and learns technology when they don't need to). Take on some spec work from some buddies, cause you might suck at first.

Good luck,
-R
Old 11th February 2003
  #6
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Renie's Avatar
 

The only thing I would do if I were you is get a second hand Pro Control, that's if you really need one anyway.

They are old and overpriced. Second hand deals are appearing.
Old 11th February 2003
  #7
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
The only thing I would do if I were you is get a second hand Pro Control, that's if you really need one anyway.

They are old and overpriced. Second hand deals are appearing.
I'll second that sentiment on the Pro Control. Unless you really gotta have faders for the client to grab, there's cheaper alternatives.

We own the Control 24 (Mic pre's are unused in the new configured studio) For me, other than grabbing an occasional fader and using the transport controls, it's pretty much a big mouse. I don't miss it unless I take it offline (to avoid crashing when using Auto tune) and even then I adapt back to the mouse only really quickly.
If you haven't spent time on Ptools you may wanna just get started without a control surface, learn your way around. The argument could be made of course that clients want to see a "console". (I'd like to see one too, anybody got a Trident 80 b they wanna sell?)
BTW, one of the Digi guys at NAMM said there absolutely was a new ProControl comming down the pike in "about a year". He was very vague about it but implied that it would be a larger format board (think big deep wow factor) ....I have no Idea what that means....He also implied it would be pretty high dollar as well.
My suggestion ( I'm talking to myself here) is put the dough$$ in the front end, pre's, Mics, outboard. The Digi stuff will come and go. HD,192 blah blah , it'll be old news in a couple of years( or sooner) when Digi's bottom line needs a boost.

buy stuff that will be timeless, and Pimp the gear you you already got.
Good luck.
Old 11th February 2003
  #8
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 

have fun and go for it....i would agree on pro control...most of the time i still just use a trackball...10k is a lot..but what the heck if you are going to use it and the clients like it do it....love my systems.....
Old 12th February 2003
  #9
Gear Guru
 

I don't think anyone in this forum is going to try to talk you out of buying gear!

If you wanted a sure return on your investment you'd be looking at opening up a dry cleaners. Go for it. Like you said, even if you had to sell the gear down the road you will never lose the skills and knowledge you develop.

My suggestion is to let potential clients know about your new gear right away.

Have fun.
Old 12th February 2003
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Re: pro tool hd purchase this week, am I a idiot?

Quote:
Originally posted by renshen
Hey guys,
over the last few weeks you have answered many questions for me, and this week (friday) I will purchase a HDIII, pro control, plug-ins and rack gear.
I know that one must take chances in life or else what the F--k is the piont. I have projects lined up, but times are troubling and nothing is a sure bet.
Would you hold and wait a while or go for it and work your ass off doing the best you could? again no sure bets. If i tune my chops on pro tools and then have to sell it all down the road......
I know there are +/- to everything........Stop me before I jump.

Sincerely,
The fool on the hill
Are you an idiot?
NO, YES, MAYBE WHO CARE'S! go for it. If there are clients, make records, and have fun!
Old 12th February 2003
  #11
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by joeq
I don't think anyone in this forum is going to try to talk you out of buying gear!

Well, true .... but someone might talk you into buying something else .... that's the point in discussing / asking for options.


Some good points allready given. ProControl is the way to go if you want to go for a control surface. And although new has advantages support / warranty wise ... the second hand market is very interesting.

I would go for a new main unit and expand it with second hand faderpacks.
Old 12th February 2003
  #12
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Nowak's Avatar
ProTools is the greatest!, DO IT!!!

Old 12th February 2003
  #13
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JoHoozaFats...'s Avatar
 

what about Logic?

don't dismiss cuz 'pros' that u may have heard of are displaying their PT allegiance only. (i'm sure digi compensates for that)

Logic is pretty impressive. The audio is good. (In 5, its way better than 4) and with 6 availalbe in 3 weeks, it can only get better...

if u have (i'm guesstimating) maybe 25K to blow, you can get a good used board, some nice comps, mics and pres, use Logic to track, edit, and then print using a nice 2 ch. convertor.

see, this way, u have the eye candy for the client, the outbd. for ears, and a board that will last way past any digital revolution.
Old 12th February 2003
  #14
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
what about Logic?

don't dismiss cuz 'pros' that u may have heard of are displaying their PT allegiance only. (i'm sure digi compensates for that)

Logic is pretty impressive. The audio is good. (In 5, its way better than 4) and with 6 availalbe in 3 weeks, it can only get better...

if u have (i'm guesstimating) maybe 25K to blow, you can get a good used board, some nice comps, mics and pres, use Logic to track, edit, and then print using a nice 2 ch. convertor.

see, this way, u have the eye candy for the client, the outbd. for ears, and a board that will last way past any digital revolution.

what about Logic .... Logic is a software ... and a good one yes .... but the software has nothing to do with the audio quality .... Logic can sound as good or as bad as the audio interface you let it work with.

Logic as a front soft for PT hardware yes .... but you still have to buy the PT system ... or another hardware system ....
Old 12th February 2003
  #15
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Volodia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
the software has nothing to do with the audio quality ....
.
I'm surprised you would say that . Of course it has to do with it . The quality of the bounce ,the quality of the plug ins , the math involved (24 bit/32 float etc..) all this has to do with software . And Logic does it good .There are other interfaces than Pro Tools to acquire audio . As far as control surfaces go I would seriously consider the DM2000 . I just got one and it works wonders wit PT . and it's a great desk.
Old 12th February 2003
  #16
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Bernd G's Avatar
 

LOGIC and PT

Get PT if you NEED to be compatible. Get LOGIC if you want to be creative with virtual instruments and softsamplers and work with Bands that work with YOUR style. Get BOTH and run LOGIC on PT hardware if you have enough money. Caution: you will not learn LOGIC as quickly as PT, much steaper learning curve. Use PT if you need this next week...
Cheers
B.
Old 12th February 2003
  #17
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

CMLabs makes good controllers and they don't take up a lot of space. Unless you're working with projects with enough budget, you may decide to go this way. they even have some advantages over the DD stuff
Old 12th February 2003
  #18
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 

Re: LOGIC and PT

Quote:
Originally posted by Bernd G
Get PT if you NEED to be compatible. Get LOGIC if you want to be creative with virtual instruments and softsamplers and work with Bands that work with YOUR style. Get BOTH and run LOGIC on PT hardware if you have enough money. Caution: you will not learn LOGIC as quickly as PT, much steaper learning curve. Use PT if you need this next week...
Cheers
B.
remember you are running a business also...you must use what most people want and use...logic is great...most indipendent engineers and producers 90% i would say use pro tools...unless you want a studio that only you operate and want to limit your client base....get pro tools....g.
Old 12th February 2003
  #19
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Henchman's Avatar
I think the big question is, what is you're c lientele. Do you have a decent facility?
Old 13th February 2003
  #20
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Alécio Costa's Avatar
 

I have been in a big similar doubt. The choices would be:
a) Upgrade my 02R V2 to 02R 96k
b) Upgrade PT Mix 5.1.1 to PT Hd1 6.0
c) Stay with the 02R and buy a fancy mic pre, compressor, maybe from Focusrite, API, Manley/Langevin..

It is just a pain in the ass this thing of i-lok, pay upgrades for 88.2/96k ( 192k does not exist yet - where are the lawyers?), then pay again because there is OS X....


so?
Thanks
Old 13th February 2003
  #21
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Renie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Alécio Costa
I have been in a big similar doubt. The choices would be:
a) Upgrade my 02R V2 to 02R 96k
b) Upgrade PT Mix 5.1.1 to PT Hd1 6.0
c) Stay with the 02R and buy a fancy mic pre, compressor, maybe from Focusrite, API, Manley/Langevin..

It is just a pain in the ass this thing of i-lok, pay upgrades for 88.2/96k ( 192k does not exist yet - where are the lawyers?), then pay again because there is OS X....


so?
Thanks
Alecio,

If i were you I'd sell the O2R..hang on what convertors are you using with your Mix system?
Old 13th February 2003
  #22
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Renie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman
I think the big question is, what is you're c lientele. Do you have a decent facility?
This thread is getting thorough.
Do you have some decent coffee making utilities?
Old 13th February 2003
  #23
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Volodia
I'm surprised you would say that . Of course it has to do with it . The quality of the bounce ,the quality of the plug ins , the math involved (24 bit/32 float etc..) all this has to do with software . And Logic does it good .There are other interfaces than Pro Tools to acquire audio . As far as control surfaces go I would seriously consider the DM2000 . I just got one and it works wonders wit PT . and it's a great desk.

yes once the audio is in the computer you can discuss different softwares .... but not on the way in .... on the way in it is the hardware that counts .... that's what I ment ... sorry if that wasn't clear.
Old 13th February 2003
  #24
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
This thread is getting thorough.
Do you have some decent coffee making utilities?

NOTHING makes better espresso then this.
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Old 13th February 2003
  #25
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Alécio Costa's Avatar
 

Thanks Renie, but I get rid of the old good 02R V2I will have to buy lots of a/d mic pres, maybe 2 Focusrite Octapres and I do not know if they are cool.
Sometimes, a few but twice a year I record Horn Bands and Camerata that shall go up to 20 mic inputs.

So.. that is my big doubt at the moment. I think I have already the best sound quality I could with the 02R. I like its efx 7/8 but the compressor for tracking are useless, I shall admit it. Also, it was really great, lotsof worldwide tudios had at least one of them sitting somewhere, but their bit depth for the a/d is 20 bits....

So?
Old 13th February 2003
  #26
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Renie's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Alécio Costa

So?
Aah, so you are using your 02R as your multi mic -pre A/D convertor aswell, I see your predicament. I have no more to add I'm afraid! Maybe someone else will offer some advice.

Good luck,
Old 13th February 2003
  #27
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Renie's Avatar
 

Chris

That is a serious looking coffee machine.

I must get one sorted!
Old 16th February 2003
  #28
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jagarinec's Avatar
 

I have projects lined up, but times are troubling and nothing is a sure bet.

if only the half of your projects will come: GREAT. GO FOR IT.

on other hand: how did you work till now? whats wrong with your equipment?

what do you aim to do with PT? why PT?

if you buy logic, a fast mac, crane song HEDD or RME ADI, some cool outboard comps, eqs and pres you'll stay cheaper and i guess you´ll get better sound. working ONLY with plugins is ****!!! combine both. tracking/editing digital, others analog.

if you only need PT for tracking and editing you can go cheaper with logic. perhaps the PT comp and eq plugins are are a little bit better than in logic, but far way from hardware. a lot of plugins for TDM are availiable for VST too.

some people claim logic summing is crapy and PT is better. but less crapy don't mean GOOD! some people claim the comp and eq plugins in PT/logic are almost as good as real hardware. but what means almost? thats how you apply a standard. for me it is FAR AWAY of real hardware comps and eqs.

and only for editing IMHO PT is TOO expensive. why paying for expensive DSP farms? to run crapy plugins? did you ever hear a PT reverb? hahaha heh

i dont need to be compatible to anybody. i only work in my own project studio. for me PT would only be a high boost of image to impress my clients.tutt

what do you think?

bye

sini
Old 16th February 2003
  #29
Gear Head
 

Thanks, Soon I will open either a studio or a starbucks

Thanks for some of the more serious input to this thread.
In reply, I have been using pro tools, studer 24's, etc.... What ever is in the room I'm working, I really don't have a format favorite, although there is some rack gear I take with me on every gig. Bottom line it's my job to do the best with what I have to work with, looking back all my favorite tunes have been recorded on far less advanced (?) gear. I started on a scully 4 track years ago, and to be honest had a better time and more enjoyment in those day's then I do now, with tape loops running through the room around door knobs.

If we we authors would we be spending all day discussing the pens and paper we used (I guess we would). What would pro tools have done for Jimi Hendrix?

I just want to invest in gear that I myself and some of you feel will serve me well to create and capture music as an art form. I still have to make a living so I work the rooms with whatever project I'm called to do. But for my own room I will have no musical cheese whiz flowing from the monitors.

Sincerely,
Renshen
Old 16th February 2003
  #30
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Alécio Costa's Avatar
 

I would never go back to my ADATs and my DM800. PT is not perfect but nothing is perfect. Analog 2" is perfect too? I do not think so...

I do not work for Digi, they have several nice stuff and some things that need to be re-evaluated like plugin delays, etc etc etc - **** that every one of us already know..

So....?
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