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Best Mic Like a C12??? Condenser Microphones
Old 12th August 2010
  #61
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chrisjones's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_HS View Post
LOMO 19A19 developed as Soviet alternative to vintage C12.
Really? I have two and both of them doesn't have that top end ala C12. Actually they're kinda dull sounding... at least the couple in my locker.
Old 12th August 2010
  #62
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NONE, sorry to say it. And wish it wasn't that way. Because that mic is very hard to find for sale and expensive.
Old 12th August 2010
  #63
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Well I think that rather than hawk my own microphone line, I'll lust and salivate over parts for diy'ers or potential modders.

Tim Campbell's CT12 capsule, sounds awesome! Ships with the capsule installed on the mount, can't be beat considering the pricing. I have not heard the MBHO capsule yet, so I lack that perspective.

Peluso's CEK12 capsule sounds damn good with the right circuit and despite folks misgivings over how its constructed, I actually think he does a good job at presenting a bright rendition of the CK12 capsule.

Oliver's T14 @ Tab Funkenwerk. Has an immediate color and tone to it that puts your mic in a time machine on rewind. This transformer definitely helps to tame the top end on capsules and has a very rich harmonic that I adore in my personal microphone which uses a 251 circuit and a CK12 capsule.

Make sure you invest the money into getting a good tube.

I personally prefer the GE 5 Star 6072a Triple Black Plate Mica.

Also investigate the old school caps used in the C12, they play into the sound of the microphone. If you can fit and afford paper in oil, then definitely go there.

Peace
Illumination
Old 12th August 2010
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
The best looking C12 styled mic for me is looking like the LeWilson....
Yeah this mic looks appealing to me as well along with his 247 mic. I was going to pull the trigger on the 247 but I got a good deal on a pair of Lawson L251 fet's so I'm going to go for a Lawson L47mp tube for the time being that way I can have both the 251 and L47 that I can use as either tube or fet.
Old 13th August 2010
  #65
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I knew I would get in trouble for agreeing with Fletcher!

No really, I've used a number of the ADK mics for a few mins and then switched to other mics. Its just how it is. Maybe they make great mics I just haven't heard one yet. BTW, I'm not trying to solo them out I am just giving real world experience to this discussion.


I have used a number of really great mics so I know the difference between a great mic and a not great one. Price doesn't always reflect quality. I think it use to more then it does today. I've used many 10k dollar vintage mics and liked them and a number of 800-1500 mics that all sound great. I doubt any of these mics being discussed sound exactly like a vintage C12 but I know a few of them do things like it and are really great on a number of sources. I have never had a chance to AB. Usually if a studio has a vintage C12 they wont spend money on a clone of what they have. It's usually not needed.

Anyway, not try to stir the pot but I personally have not had any great results with the "previously mention brand "mics but if some of you are. Sweet!
Old 13th August 2010
  #66
Gear Addict
has anyone mentioned the flea -c12?
there is a shootout somewhere with various tube mics including flea 12 and vintage C12 somewhere here on GS.
i am sooooo leery of of wannabe mics and shootouts, but holy cow... that one was a shocker stike
sure seemed worth further investigating to me at very least.
Old 13th August 2010
  #67
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Fletcher's Avatar
So much of it is bull****. There were at least 8 different versions of U-47's from Neumann [not counting U-48's], there were at least half a dozen versions of C-12's [not counting C-204's or 205's], there were some that were off the hook spectacular [within almost every version] there were some that sucked balls.

There are at least 3 different versions of CK-12 capsules that are all the same -- EXCEPT -- for the diaphragm material that was ordered by AKG [originally] by availability vs. "special properties"... like if one MFG was out of the material they required to build capsules they ordered the material from another supplier.

My ONLY point was that the "shreds a C-12" statement might be right, or might be bull****, or might be right because the C-12 that is "personal" might be a ****e mic.

I don't know dick about the ADK product, and more importantly, I know even less about the "C-12" the ADK product "shredded".

FWIW, I've heard and used some ADK mics that didn't suck balls... and am a firm believer that each and EVERY tool employed in a production should be evaluated on its own merits in the context of that production. Further to that, anyone issuing a blanket statement on any internet forum is a complete and total moron of the highest order [the exception being that ****i-Design / Avid A/D converters suck balls]

Hope this clarifies the statements.

Peace.
Old 13th August 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
So much of it is bull****. There were at least 8 different versions of U-47's from Neumann [not counting U-48's], there were at least half a dozen versions of C-12's [not counting C-204's or 205's], there were some that were off the hook spectacular [within almost every version] there were some that sucked balls.

There are at least 3 different versions of CK-12 capsules that are all the same -- EXCEPT -- for the diaphragm material that was ordered by AKG [originally] by availability vs. "special properties"... like if one MFG was out of the material they required to build capsules they ordered the material from another supplier.

My ONLY point was that the "shreds a C-12" statement might be right, or might be bull****, or might be right because the C-12 that is "personal" might be a ****e mic.

I don't know dick about the ADK product, and more importantly, I know even less about the "C-12" the ADK product "shredded".

FWIW, I've heard and used some ADK mics that didn't suck balls... and am a firm believer that each and EVERY tool employed in a production should be evaluated on its own merits in the context of that production. Further to that, anyone issuing a blanket statement on any internet forum is a complete and total moron of the highest order [the exception being that ****i-Design / Avid A/D converters suck balls]

Hope this clarifies the statements.

Peace.
I was just talking about all the different versions of the CK12 capsule with Jim today.

I've heard dark ones, bright ones....

I was reading on a website that one of the original versions of the CK12 capsule was a 9 micron design. Care to share any trivia worthy factoids about the infamous CK12 capsule Fletcher??

Using the search function doesn't cut it for me. I want to climb into a hole behind a file cabinet and wind up in your brain like "Being John Malkovich," lol.

Peace
Illumination
Old 13th August 2010
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
Further to that, anyone issuing a blanket statement on any internet forum is a complete and total moron of the highest order
Who does your irony-ing?

-R
Old 13th August 2010
  #70
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Matti's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tree View Post
has anyone mentioned the flea -c12?
there is a shootout somewhere with various tube mics including flea 12 and vintage C12 somewhere here on GS.
i am sooooo leery of of wannabe mics and shootouts, but holy cow... that one was a shocker stike
sure seemed worth further investigating to me at very least.

Echantillons audio (.wav) FLEA
This is the French shootout I know of

Matti
Old 14th August 2010
  #71
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It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but the Innertube Mag Mic is very close to a good C-12.

I just did a session at Coupe studios (Boulder,CO) and brought in my mag mic. Come to find out they had an amazing sounding well-maintained vintage c-12. I was expecting the c-12 to slay my mag mic. We put the two side by side and the engineer was completely awestruck... Literally dropped his jaw. Neither of us could believe it. He said it sounded too close to even make a judgement call... Thought it sounded pretty much identical to the c-12. He preferred it to the c-12 on this particular session.

Blows my mind that after all these years it's been out, many slutz are still looking past this mic... And forget about the "it looks silly" comments... When you can get a mic this good under 3 grand, it is a total no-brainer. It is better than a lot of mics that cost much more. I've got a great Blue bottle with several capsules and the mag mic usually puts it to shame by quite a margin.
Old 14th August 2010
  #72
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John Willett's Avatar
 

I would say the FLEA 12.

They say:-
Quote:
This mic is an exact replica of C12 and involves an exact replica of the original power supply N12 with pattern switch U2. As standard, it is equipped with an FK12 capsule which is our own exact replica of CK12 capsule or with original CK12 capsule. The tube is GE 6072 in five-star version which generates minimum noise and microphonic. These tubes were produced especially for military purposes and were used also in the original C12s. The transformer is our own replica of original . Considering the sound, it is simply “Rolls-Royce”. In some applications this mic is pretending seriously, but its benefits will stand out during mixdown. It’s fantastic for vocals, acoustic instruments as well as ambient miking. Those, who have not experienced, will not believe. The full set contains microphone in wooden box, PSU, U2 switch, cables with swivel mount, safe portable case.
Retails at €3,625 +VAT direct from the FLEA store (or your local dealer).

I was actually at FLEA yesterday, talking to them and seeing the production facility.

The C12 capsule is the most difficult of all capsules to replicate and has taken FLEA four years of research to manage to do it (though some units have original capsules in).

Talking to the owners I was extremely impressed at their passion and dedication (shared by the whole workforce) and if I was in the market for a C12 I would definitely get the FLEA 12.
Old 14th August 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
So much of it is bull****. There were at least 8 different versions of U-47's from Neumann [not counting U-48's], there were at least half a dozen versions of C-12's [not counting C-204's or 205's],
Siemens version was SM-204 , not C-204, SM-205 is small diagram microphone.
Old 15th August 2010
  #74
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Matti's Avatar
John, did you take something with you?

Matti
Old 15th August 2010
  #75
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I know I'm coming in late here, but I think the Violet Global Pre with a VIN12 capsule might be worth a demo. I've been really happy with these mics...

Cheers,
john
Old 15th August 2010
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MATTI View Post
John, did you take something with you?
Nope - I was there to do an interview and see the set-up as I plan to write an article for publication about them.

I was most impressed.
Old 16th August 2010
  #77
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Going back to some of the CK12 style capsules mentioned above, Yes, Tim's capsule is excellent. I have used this as well as the Peluso CEK12. No comparison. ADK also makes a very nice CK12 style capsule (GK12). I recently installed this in an AKG C12 as a replacement capsule. A while back I had a Telefunken M12 here on demo and recorded a bunch of tracks through it, vocals, guitars, etc. Once I got the GK12 capsule installed and recorded a few tracks to compare, I was strucken as to how similiar they sounded. Tim's CT12 was "brighter" for lack of a better word (a bit more in the air department), where the ADK capsule in the same C12 sounded much closer to the M12 (almost hard to tell them apart). I spoke with Tim earlier this summer and this is by design and it would seem that his CT12 is based off of a different revision of the CK12 capsule perhaps?? Either way, you cant go wrong. Both ADK and Tim make excellent capsules.
Old 18th August 2010
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_HS View Post
LOMO 19A19 developed as Soviet alternative to vintage C12.
Is LOMO still alive?
Old 18th August 2010
  #79
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has a brauner vmx been mentioned? i think they are quite similar somehow. but maybe also not who knows. that was just my feeling when listening to recordings being made of our singer with either ones in the same song
Old 19th August 2010
  #80
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Anyone has experience with Ben's C12b capsule into his Phelicity mic??
I know it's prolly just based around it (not a tribute), but how close is this mic's sound to the original C12 design?

Thanks,
Old 20th August 2010
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but the Innertube Mag Mic is very close to a good C-12.

I just did a session at Coupe studios (Boulder,CO) and brought in my mag mic. Come to find out they had an amazing sounding well-maintained vintage c-12. I was expecting the c-12 to slay my mag mic. We put the two side by side and the engineer was completely awestruck... Literally dropped his jaw. Neither of us could believe it. He said it sounded too close to even make a judgement call... Thought it sounded pretty much identical to the c-12. He preferred it to the c-12 on this particular session.

Blows my mind that after all these years it's been out, many slutz are still looking past this mic... And forget about the "it looks silly" comments... When you can get a mic this good under 3 grand, it is a total no-brainer. It is better than a lot of mics that cost much more. I've got a great Blue bottle with several capsules and the mag mic usually puts it to shame by quite a margin.
...and the squeezebox is really the best compressor being made today.
Old 21st August 2010
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
...and the squeezebox is really the best compressor being made today.
Yeah - it's incredible.... Just did a session with a great vocalist - using the mag mic into Atlas Pro Juggernaut Twin, into the Atomic Squeezebox... Jawdropping sound. Seems you just can't make the Innertube stuff sound bad - killer sounds. Amazing gear!
Old 28th August 2010
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post

*"No really, I've used a number of the ADK mics for a few mins..."

*"I have never had a chance to AB."
and that is the problem...

and yet another uneducated slam on excellent products from ADK

in fact... doing A/B tests, blind A/B tests, is the reason I started using ADK mic's in the first place...
since then I have purchased 3 more.

hello






Old 30th August 2010
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
ADK mics are not very good. I'm down with cheap but it still can and should sound great. None of the ADK mics I have heard ever get used because they sound pretty awful.
Gotta disagree. I've owned a pair of ADK A6 mics for a couple of years now and they're really sweet on acoustic guitar. I was leery of buying them at first because I had a hard time believing I was going to get a good guitar sound from a pair of mics that cost $250 apiece, but I'm still loving those mics for that application. They greatly exceeded what I expected.
Old 30th August 2010
  #85
Gear Nut
 

I don't know why I started reading this but the more I read the more fascinating it became. Seems that the people who are praising Peluso and ADK are selling mics and modifications and not living the dream recording records for a living.

Having heard more C-12's than I could begin to count, I would say that the only thing that comes close is a Manley Gold, and that is barely an approximation to a good C-12. As has been pointed out, there are a lot of crap C-12s in a lot of studios, I seem to have found those more often than good ones. Even the Oceanways, and Blackbird have some less ideal C-12s.

I don't know how you can compare a Peluso or ADK to a good C-12 after you've experienced good C-12s. Once you have found good ones it is very difficult to go back. There was some C-12 clone I used that didn't have an AKG logo that was pretty amazing that lived at Mad Dog Ranch in Colorado back in the early 90's but I don't know what ever happened to it or where it came from.
Old 30th August 2010
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert L. View Post
I don't know why I started reading this but the more I read the more fascinating it became. Seems that the people who are praising Peluso and ADK are selling mics and modifications and not living the dream recording records for a living.

Having heard more C-12's than I could begin to count, I would say that the only thing that comes close is a Manley Gold, and that is barely an approximation to a good C-12. As has been pointed out, there are a lot of crap C-12s in a lot of studios, I seem to have found those more often than good ones. Even the Oceanways, and Blackbird have some less ideal C-12s.

I don't know how you can compare a Peluso or ADK to a good C-12 after you've experienced good C-12s. Once you have found good ones it is very difficult to go back. There was some C-12 clone I used that didn't have an AKG logo that was pretty amazing that lived at Mad Dog Ranch in Colorado back in the early 90's but I don't know what ever happened to it or where it came from.
I can only speak for myself and Jim, we're both audio engineers by trade and I use our microphones frequently. As a musician I use the 251 version of our Dutch on everything from drum overheads to vocals to acoustic guitar and I frequently get compliments on the tone we've accomplished.

As far as how this relates to our experiences as microphone designers, we both like to use the best parts possible in our personal gear and we've translated that to the way we develop our microphones.

I feel we're using some of the best available components on the planet to fabricate these microphones and I stand behind that statement. We've done several C12 recently that used the Tim Campbell CT12 (one of the best CK12s I've heard), NOS GE 5 Star 6072a, Tab Funkenwerk T14 trafo (we can use Haufe as well), custom chromed headbasket, custom rebuilt PSU and high quality capacitors and resistors, silver teflon wire, assembled with patient TLC of a skilled technician. We've even gone so far to source some of the original capacitors from the original C12.

To the point, it sounds beyond great, beyond awesome and yet believable.

"Because we built it," is not a good enough reason when you are making mics that should be in the hands of the everyman and the uber-talented alike.

You have to use the best available parts you can, so that the end user is in the best possible position to deliver the magic necessary to make a recording a record.

Peace
Illumination
Old 30th August 2010
  #87
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Best Mic Like a C12???

Old crusty C414 with brass CK12 capsule and attached cable. Can be used in stereo with a C12.
Old 31st August 2010
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert L. View Post
I don't know how you can compare a Peluso or ADK to a good C-12
Of course the only way to compare them is by plugging them in and trying them out...again and again, which I've done. The C12 is great. I own one. So are a number of the ADK mics. I'm not saying any of the ADKs sound identical to the C12. I'm just saying they make some good mics with a C-12ish vibe that are worth auditioning.
Old 31st August 2010
  #89
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by illacov View Post
I personally prefer the GE 5 Star 6072a Triple Black Plate Mica.
That's the tube we used as a replacement. We found it pretty dark relative to the original, which was perfect. I mean "perfect!" That mic was miraculous on vocals. I have yet to hear a true replacement if that's the sound you're after. I've been in the ballpark with a 251 and some tweaking but it's different.

That 5 Star might not have been the ideal specimen so take this with a grain of salt.
Old 31st August 2010
  #90
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
I know how I compare them...by plugging them in and trying them out...again and again. The C12 is great. I own one. So are a number of the ADK mics.
Like I said, the only people praising this stuff are the guys that are selling them. The JJ guys seem like they have an interesting racket taking a part from here and a part from there and building some kind of standardized Frankenstein piece. Might be interesting.
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