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Best Mic Like a C12??? Condenser Microphones
Old 10th August 2008
  #31
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Audio Hombre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff4h View Post
get a aphex 260.
apex 460*
Old 10th August 2008
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infopimpster View Post
I bought an Apex460 on FleaBay, then sent it to Dave Thomas:

Advanced Audio Microphones

Dave said:



It was about $500 with S&H.
It would have cost you about $275 if you did it yourself
Old 10th August 2008
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean View Post
It would have cost you about $275 if you did it yourself
Either way you've gotta do something, because it's a filthy POS by itself. It sounds less like a C12 mic and more like C4 explosive. Couldn't wait to get it out of the building. Bleagghh.tutt

3rd&4thT
Old 10th August 2008
  #34
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E-Irizarry's Avatar
What'cha guys think about the Behringer B2 PRO & Shure KSM44 Dual Diaphragm Condenser mics?
Old 10th August 2008
  #35
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cowrange's Avatar
 

You could try a used Soundelux e250. Not exactly the same but great for the price. Bock Audio 151 etc.
Old 10th August 2008
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean View Post
It would have cost you about $275 if you did it yourself
Perhaps... but have you priced out the Peluso Capsule? That was included in the price, as was knowing it would work without searching the internet for hours to learn how to modify the mic. To each their own!

Peluso Microphone Lab

I also could have paid $1200:

Peluso P12 Multipattern Tube Microphone

-steve
Old 10th August 2008
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Rogers View Post
Audio Technica makes a tube mic which seems well liked by many pros. Based on reading rather than hands on experience, Audio Technica mics are closer to the AKG sound than to the Neumann sound.

Mix has some classic vintage mic articles by Stephen Paul which are available on their website. You can find them HERE. They will help you understand why the vintage mics sound the way they do.
AT mics don't really sound like AKG's at all
Old 10th August 2008
  #38
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Drumsound's Avatar
I reviewed the Peluso P12 for Warren's other site. I found it to be a pretty interesting mic on a few things, including acoustic instruments, whistles/flutes, group vocals, and drum overheads and room. I've never used a real C12, but using the P12 on overhead it made me think "If this is close to the real deal I see why all those LA guys seem to use C12s for OH."

I've used 3 different mics with Peluso capsules and I will say that I don't believe those capsules react well to loud, close singing. They thin out and get a bit crunchy. I preferred each of those 3 mics on instruments much more than on (close) voices.
Old 11th August 2008
  #39
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Tony, that could also be the capsule not being biased properly, rather than something with the capsule itself. If there is too great a charge to the backplate, the diaphragm will not move properly, making it sound thin, and it will distort easily.
Old 10th August 2010
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
....
I've used 3 different mics with Peluso capsules and I will say that I don't believe those capsules react well to loud, close singing. They thin out and get a bit crunchy. I preferred each of those 3 mics on instruments much more than on (close) voices.
To be perfectly honest I haven't yet found any condenser mic to handle any loud close vocals, for those applications I prefer a large diaphragm dynamic, with first choice being a Shure SM 7b most times.

I have a pair of Apex 460's that I modded with parts - Peluso capsule, cinemag output transformer, tube swap, and some capacitor changes from Dave Thomas (AA Microphones) and I auditioned each step, rather than doing the whole job in one hit. The microphones went from initially sounding rather shrill, and only really of use in recording some acoustic guitars, to being my go-to for overheads, and first choice for quiet, intimate vocal parts.

My feeling is that you would be hard pressed to better the sonics in those applications without considerably more money. There are plenty of options in the C12 styled playing field, and Dave Thomas has enough real world experience to offer a very cost effective choice.

As always, your mileage may vary!
Old 10th August 2010
  #41
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I have a B6 (well actually R6) capsule that I mount onto a 451 body, trying to get at the C12 thing. Unfortunately, the 451 seems to be not the best amplifier, and I get a fair amount of distortion and hash. Anybody recommend a better mount for those B6 capsules?

-R
Old 10th August 2010
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
I have a B6 (well actually R6) capsule that I mount onto a 451 body, trying to get at the C12 thing. Unfortunately, the 451 seems to be not the best amplifier, and I get a fair amount of distortion and hash. Anybody recommend a better mount for those B6 capsules?

-R
Maybe opt for a tube???? The Telefunken Ela M 260 or the Chameleon Labs TS-1 MKII.... And of course, there are the bottle mics. LeWilson makes a bottle with a Cinemag and EF86 I believe.... Under $1K...

I've been looking at the Chameleon Labs TS-1 MKII, and it looks really interesting. They now have a large diaphragm head that can replace the 3 different patterned S.D. heads. and their is also the CK1 adapter, which will work for you BLUE cap I think. However, the thing that I'm curious about is the variable heater drive on the power supply, which allows you to run the tube at different voltages to 'color' the source.

Good Luck!!!!!

(Violet used to have 451 heads, but I don't think they make them anymore.... I even contacted them about it a few times and never heard back at all)

The best looking C12 styled mic for me is looking like the LeWilson....
Old 11th August 2010
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioboffin View Post
To be perfectly honest I haven't yet found any condenser mic to handle any loud close vocals, for those applications I prefer a large diaphragm dynamic, with first choice being a Shure SM 7b most times.
My Telefunken AR-51 handles loud sounds fine. In fact, most preamps' input stage will cave in well before the mic does from my experience. Now that I'm using a Manley as my main pre for vocals(in a general sense, sometimes I use my Burl), I don't have that issue and people yell into it all day long.

I do prefer the vibe of an sm7b for screaming though!!
Old 11th August 2010
  #44
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C12A/B's are quite nice mics. Not as silky and smooth as the C12. It is like the C12's younger, little more rough around the edges, brother. Great mic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean View Post
AKG C12A Looks like a 414 and sounds A LOT like a C12 (Exact same capsule and a nuvistor tube). It was the replacement for the C12. You can still pick them up in the $2K to $2500 range. Great mic that isn't talked about much around here. You can bet they will be going up in price.
Old 11th August 2010
  #45
Gear Nut
 

Might I suggest that you NOT drop $2000 on a mic if this was the first time you've ever had your voice recorded?

If you are a music artist and you decide to get into the world of recording, you will slowly find that energy you used to spend on creating music is now spent on mixing music or buying gear.

You got to record on a C12!!! That's the holy grail. If you start buying up gear and recording yourself, you will forever chase that sound and probably never achieve it. Why not use your cash to get back into the studio and let the pros handle the recording?

If you want a home setup for demos, buy a cheap setup for demos and use it as such. Very few people can be the artist, producer, and engineer without becoming jack of all trades master of none.


Just an alternative point of view from someone who used to write music and now has tons of expensive gear instead......

BTW if you do decide my advice sucks, and you need a C12 sound, I have a Soundelux e250 on ebay here.
Old 11th August 2010
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliba View Post
M Very few people can be the artist, producer, and engineer without becoming jack of all trades master of none.
Unless, like me, you decide to be the "MASTER of the jack of all trades and master of none".

That said, has anyone tried the Chameleon TS-1 pencil mic as an amplifier for a B6 capsule. I can't remember who recommended that to me.

-R
Old 11th August 2010
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
That said, has anyone tried the Chameleon TS-1 pencil mic as an amplifier for a B6 capsule. I can't remember who recommended that to me.
Could it have been post #42????
Old 11th August 2010
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
Could it have been post #42????
No, I think it might have been Warren Dent, or whoever sold me the B6. This was a couple years ago. Curious if anyone's tried it.

-R
Old 11th August 2010
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioboffin View Post
To be perfectly honest I haven't yet found any condenser mic to handle any loud close vocals, for those applications I prefer a large diaphragm dynamic, with first choice being a Shure SM 7b most times.

I have a pair of Apex 460's that I modded with parts - Peluso capsule, cinemag output transformer, tube swap, and some capacitor changes from Dave Thomas (AA Microphones) and I auditioned each step, rather than doing the whole job in one hit. The microphones went from initially sounding rather shrill, and only really of use in recording some acoustic guitars, to being my go-to for overheads, and first choice for quiet, intimate vocal parts.

My feeling is that you would be hard pressed to better the sonics in those applications without considerably more money. There are plenty of options in the C12 styled playing field, and Dave Thomas has enough real world experience to offer a very cost effective choice.

As always, your mileage may vary!
I have the CM12se and its really great mic. I haven't compared it to a vintage C12 head to head but have compared it to many other clones and the AA mic cleans up the others. And its cheaper. Dave is really doing some great work with his mics!
Old 12th August 2010
  #50
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Larry Villella's Avatar
Appeal to Reason . .

All of these suggestions seem to be good alternatives to a C-12.

But don't forget the TC-12Au from ADK Custom Shop.

ADK Microphones - Custom Shop Series Microphone Catalog - Model TC 12-Au

Rise Against had a #1 Hit on iTunes for "Appeal to Reason" tracking lead vocals with this mic.

At around $1k, it truly shreds my personal C-12.


Cheers!

Larry Villella, ADK)))

adkmic.com

myspace.com/adkmic
Old 12th August 2010
  #51
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Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Villella View Post
All of these suggestions seem to be good alternatives to a C-12.

But don't forget the TC-12Au from ADK Custom Shop.

At around $1k, it truly shreds my personal C-12.
You obviously have a pretty ****ty "personal C-12".
Old 12th August 2010
  #52
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Larry Villella's Avatar
Opinion based on what personal knowledge exactly?
Old 12th August 2010
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
You obviously have a pretty ****ty "personal C-12".
LOL - gotta love Fletcher...
Old 12th August 2010
  #54
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I agree with Fletcher. ADK mics are not very good. I'm down with cheap but it still can and should sound great. None of the ADK mics I have heard ever get used because they sound pretty awful.
Old 12th August 2010
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
I agree with Fletcher. ADK mics are not very good. I'm down with cheap but it still can and should sound great. None of the ADK mics I have heard ever get used because they sound pretty awful.
Agree 100 %
Old 12th August 2010
  #56
Wow guys. Kinda harsh words there... The C-12 is a great mic. Agreed.

But unless you have actually heard the ADK TC-12Au that Larry is referring to, and all their other mics, a statement like "ADK mics are not very good" is unfair. Considering how many models and mods ADK has available, that's like looking at a box of 100 different colored pencils and saying "Those are not good colors."

I have used every single ADK mic, almost every Telefunken (currently have a C12, 251, and U47 less than 10 feet from me), and have used the majority of the other well-known brands. ADK holds up very well against anything out there. You just need to be educated enough to know which mic works best on which source. I have a large selection of mics in my studio and the ADKs get picked by clients a LOT. For seven years I've heard feedback from immensely satisfied ADK customers, many of whom could afford any mic on the planet and they chose an ADK (and often multiple ADKs).

If you don't like a particular mic, please specify the model, your experience with that model, and what you didn't like about it. If you havn't used an ADK made in the last couple years your experience is more or less irrelevant as they have modified/improved their entire line.
Old 12th August 2010
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
I agree with Fletcher. ADK mics are not very good. I'm down with cheap but it still can and should sound great.
Also, ADK currently has at least six models that sell for over $2,000. For most of us that's not "cheap" although certainly not in the price range of the C12.
Old 12th August 2010
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
I agree with Fletcher. ADK mics are not very good. I'm down with cheap but it still can and should sound great. None of the ADK mics I have heard ever get used because they sound pretty awful.
100% DISAGREE

Just got the ADK Custom Shop TC-12Au. Beautiful!!!! Love it! Perfect!!!

My engineer was very impressed and he is pretty hard to impress on budget gear.
Old 12th August 2010
  #59
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Villella View Post
Opinion based on what personal knowledge exactly?

None - other than the knowledge of what an excellent C-12 feels like on an ethereal and textural basis... and having heard nothing come out of China that was relatively close to an excellent C-12... while simultaneously having heard some rather poorly maintained C-12's [or maybe they weren't great builds in the first place, can't say for sure] which could easily be rivaled by some of the "less spendy" tools currently produced.

Call it an educated guess, nothing more - nothing less.

That said -- I did not, and would not, and will not comment on another microphone manufacturer's current product offerings, I find it unprofessional, and generally try to not be unprofessional. I also find [and this is probably a personal problem I should try to get over] that using these forums to promote the equipment you produce unprofessional as well. Answer direct questions -- fine... actively hawk and promote... that's what the ads most folk ignore in the upper right hand corner of this page are about... the promotion of the product produced, and a place where it is appropriate to say that the product you produce "shreds" a vintage classic.

I am quite sure that there are thousands of satisfied ADK customers around the world, and good for them. All bull**** aside, all that matters is that people find tools that work for them, and at the end of the day they can make the music they want to make, and present it in a manner that represents their personal sense of aesthetic. The tools they use to deliver their musical statement are generally irrelevant to the musical statement itself, they are merely a means to an end.

My comment was not intended to denigrate ADK product in any way, but question the quality of the "benchmark" C-12 that was employed in the also highly subjective "shredded" statement. There are a lot of "vintage" microphones in existence that could use some serious work after having spent the last 45-50-60 years being employed for various tasks. The level of quality and maintenance can vary greatly from unit to unit, thusly, quality of said "benchmark" is an unknown quantity at the best of times unless personal experience with the "benchmark" tool can be enjoyed and explored by each and every user / reader of this forum [and if such a thing were to be possible, I dare say the mic would definitely need some serious maintenance at the end of those trials].

Quote:
Originally Posted by dandeurloo View Post
I agree with Fletcher. ADK mics are not very good. I'm down with cheap but it still can and should sound great. None of the ADK mics I have heard ever get used because they sound pretty awful.
I did not say that, and would not say that.

Please do not put words in my mouth... if you do, there will be less room for my foot and that might hurt.

Peace.
Old 12th August 2010
  #60
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Alex_HS's Avatar
LOMO 19A19 developed as Soviet alternative to vintage C12.
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