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WEISS ADC2 or LAVRY AD122-96MKIII or PRISM DREAM AD-2 ??
Old 16th July 2008
  #1
Gear Addict
 

WEISS ADC2 or LAVRY AD122-96MKIII or PRISM DREAM AD-2 ??

Ok, before I ask my actual question here -

This is for my Mobile system. I don't want to explain too much, but basically reason for such extreme high end is that it has to match my big main studio once importing remote recordings to my main studio.

I produce and record anything from Pop/Soul/Commercial to Rock, to Blues, to Funk, to Dance, to Hip Hop and hybrids of each plus new invented unknown yet genres.

MAIN things that will be recorded on this system through this converter will be: VOCALS, KEYBOARDS and Sound Modules (from new to vintage), GUITARS and various stringed instruments both acoustic, Mic amped, and electric, and various Mic'ed percussion instruments, Drum Machine Kicks, Snares, Hats, etc.. Kicks, Snares, Hats, etc.. from CD's, Sound/Music snips from CD's and Vinyl, Various Mic'ed odd sounds, Mic'ed Horns, Individual Mic'ed acoustic Drum Kit sounds. Plus probably anything else you can think of !! LOL -

Now that all that is explained, I will ask:

Can all you well respected Pro's please tell me which of these A/D Converters you think is better and why ? What were your experiences in detail ?

1- The Prism Dream AD-2

2- The Lavry AD122-96MKIII

or

3- The Weiss ADC2


------------------------------------------------------------

Now if you MUST recommend another unit besides the 3 mentioned because you are SURE it is of equal quality, then go ahead, BUT BEFORE YOU DO - here is a little about what I DON'T like or need, and why other units some may think are great are not on my list of choices (even if they are great):

1- I don't like a bunch of features I do not use. Mainly because what makes units like that suffer is stuffing more and more features on the IC's. What happens is less room to make the converter the best it can be and also it starves the converter for voltage, so then they need to up the power of the power supply, this in turn causes more thermal heat noise, jitter, clutter to the converter, etc.. (it gets deeper and there are correct threads on that info in the Mastering threads) - Point is, as much as I like Prism, the Orpheus is out due to that, so is the HEDD192 they just do too much and have IC clutter. The Aurora is out due to its mixing abilities stuffed on the IC, and this makes the IC's suffer. IMO..so (please don't start a argument about this, I know what I know).

2- I only need 2 Channels and want no more. Another reason why the above mentioned converters are out for me. They seem to only go as low as 8 channels. This is why SSL is out for me because it doesn't go down to only do 2 channels, plus to be honest, I really don't think they are in the same league as the mentioned 3 converters here. (lets be honest).

3- This unit is to be a stand alone unit. Analog cables in and one simple Digital out to my interface. So ABSOLUTELY NO FIREWIRE stuff. If it has a option to or not that is fine (like Weiss) cause I will choose the NO firewire option and be happy. But no units that are firewire only.

4- Must be a 1U space (due to being in a mobile set up).

I am using MacBook Pro with M-Powered Pro Tools and PCI M-Audio interface with a ExpressBus/34 to PCI Magma 2space slot expansion. One PCI slot for the M-Audio interface, the other for a PCI to eSata connection to run my 2 eSata drives. So a stand alone converter is perfect not to mention sounds better and more pro than Core Audio. That there is a SOLID, stable unit. No firewire !!

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL YOUR EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE AND VALUABLE TIME
Old 16th July 2008
  #2
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dave-G's Avatar
After all that, I can't help but wonder: is there some reason you don't call a good dealer (like Cutting Edge near you) and secure the distributors' demo units and/or get a demo-loan fron stock and/or buy-with-return-rights these three converters and make your own comparison?

Given all of the particularities you seem to hold against other options, it seems only logical, not to mention that it would be the logical answer without all that!

-dave
Old 16th July 2008
  #3
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dave-G's Avatar
I'd also add that I know of at least the Prism being available for rent in the Bay Area... Possibly the Lavry too. If you PM or email me, I'll dig up the contact info for you.

-dave
Old 16th July 2008
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infa View Post
The Aurora is out due to its mixing abilities stuffed on the IC, and this makes the IC's suffer. IMO..so (please don't start a argument about this, I know what I know).
Hi!

sorry I have no info on the converters listed however I would be very interested in the problems you mention above.

Would you mind to share what you know?

Thanks!


/Peter
Old 16th July 2008
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-G View Post
After all that, I can't help but wonder: is there some reason you don't call a good dealer (like Cutting Edge near you) and secure the distributors' demo units and/or get a demo-loan fron stock and/or buy-with-return-rights these three converters and make your own comparison?

Given all of the particularities you seem to hold against other options, it seems only logical, not to mention that it would be the logical answer without all that!

-dave
Hear hear..! I second that emotion..
Old 17th July 2008
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave-G View Post
After all that, I can't help but wonder: is there some reason you don't call a good dealer (like Cutting Edge near you) and secure the distributors' demo units and/or get a demo-loan fron stock and/or buy-with-return-rights these three converters and make your own comparison?

Given all of the particularities you seem to hold against other options, it seems only logical, not to mention that it would be the logical answer without all that!

-dave
Thanks for responding Dave. To answer your question: Mainly because right now I am going through a MAJOR remodel of my facility. (Half the reason I need to get this Mobile system). Waiting for the new Apple laptop releases in Aug-Sept (?) I have absolutely NO WAY to demo these units on my own yet.

My plan is to post here about converters, Mic/Line Pres (in a soon coming similar thread), and Compressors (in a soon coming similar thread) and get ALL your ingenious PRO thoughts, experiences and suggestions on all these FIRST. (This thread being dedicated for the conversion).

AFTER all I get from you guys I hopefully will have it narrowed down to only 2 choices of each, THEN by then (a couple months from now) I will get the other parts of the set up ready. and be able to demo the winners of these threads units myself, but I only wanted to demo 2 units of each task, so my original plan was to get you guys to narrow it down for me....I need them opinions from some well respected engineers before I move forward to me personal demo'ing.

In the past I have had nothing but problems renting gear of that high end magnitude in this area. ALSO main reason is I can not be quick about it, and I don't want to pay a arm and a leg just for rentals. A few hundred is cool, but last I checked for gear of this magnitude was going to be more after I add up the time I need it for. That money could be going to the unit !! Or more units !!

So AGAIN, I was trying to narrow it down to 2 results. OR dude better yet, I was really hoping for a 100% hands down everyone seemed to know "get this one product"... That would save me some time and money.

Because seriously lets be honest, we all know I could do no harm by having ANY one of these units so it is not really that life or death which one. I just thought if I told you all what I do and my styles and the usage of it, from your professional experiences someone would have some opinions out there on each of these units that would shine some light on me as far as what direction and why.
Old 17th July 2008
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiop View Post
Hi!
sorry I have no info on the converters listed however I would be very interested in the problems you mention above.
Would you mind to share what you know?
Thanks!
/Peter
Sure Peter, no problem. (Thanks for chiming in !!) But since I do not want to take up a bunch of space on this thread over this subject (exactly what I do NOT want to happen) - I will just make a few quotes from some things written by a few top end converterphiles, PLUS it is better to hear it from them anyway, I am not nearly as techy as some of these guys. These things are REAL interesting and help you understand design a little better (to me). Some quotes are some other things not AS exactly related, but help understand a few other things that help you put the piece of the puzzle together about what quality truly is when it comes to conversion. (all the stuff about the Lavry MKIII)... Which is why I NEVER will get a converter with too many unrelated to conversion "features". (like mixing, sound emulations, etc..)

Quote:
"In the last AES, I had a workshop about digital audio, and Bob Adams, a great engineer from analog devices was on the panel. He was concerned that the converters IC's are taking some steps backward, because so much of the technology is into accommodating the computer age. That translates to using lower and lower voltages which is bad news for analog circuits. It also means there is a lot of digital stuff put on the IC's for interface and features, which leaves less room for the conversion. In other words, there may be a trend to have conversion IC's with built in features (such as EQ), at a lower performance levels, for mass production...

The market for DA's is of course huge - lots of listeners. But there are only 2 IC makers or so left that make good enough IC's for "professional level" AD. Non of them come near the Gold, because the Gold is not an IC solution. I do not see an IC be able to come near the gold for some years to come."
Quote:
"Most new digital technology has been getting cheaper rather than better. In fact I've been told that some of the very best sounding A to D chips are no longer available.
Quote:
"The Gold MKIII doesn't use A to D chips which makes it real expensive but at least it should remain available for a long time."
Quote:
"The gold MKIII is an original design (from the ground up). It uses an analog circuit with huge headroom without any IC's (which is quite unique). It's performance is amazing, and the price probably reflects an increased build cost, but also the extensive research and development. Yes it is quite unique. I only know of 2 other manufacturer offering converters with discrete design (without the ICs all the others use)"
Quote:
"Gold MKIII is very accurate without the IC smear of most high enders."
Quote:
"interesting points and I think it leads to a shocking idea that we may actually have already obtained the peak of digital conversion"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now information hits everyone different, but IF you take things seriously enough with a good reason of logic and process of elimination, from the FIRST quote I get smacked in the face hard with the reality about new converters over stuffed with features.

Add that to what has always been a age ol knowledge in anything (stereo equipment, engines, VCR's, TV's, etc...) and ESPECIALLY in pro high end gear that the more features something has ALWAYS the worse it is in every feature it contains. Race cars don't have reverse, cars go faster with out the "feature" of reverse for several reasons and not just because it is lighter. Back in the day when them T.V. VCR combos came out, some people thought they were cool, but if you were a specs hound and videophile nut, you could tell the units made crappy screens therefore crappy video AND the VCR built inside was CRAP all compared to if you went out and bought the BEST T.V. money could buy and then went and bought the BEST VCR money could buy. And what was ALWAYS the outcome ? After you did your homework you ALWAYS found that the best TV was made from a DIFFERENT manufacturer than the best possible VCR manufacturer....

One thing I know in life for sure, is that in high end professional fields that age ol golden rule will NEVER change. Don't get fooled by this new Prosumer, feature galore, everybody does everything and in mass production world that is trying to take over.
Old 17th July 2008
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 

You should check the latency of these converters. The Lavry Gold (and possibly the others) has too much delay for overdub situations.
Old 17th July 2008
  #9
Gear Nut
 
pinwale's Avatar
 

Wow mate, you're sucking at the web's poison teat behind a wall of aunt sallies.

Good luck with your . . . facility renovation, and with the overwhelming burden that would so clearly arise if you should end up having to choose for yourself between three instead of two currently made pieces of kit that can be obtained for free in-studio auditions via the manufacturers' liaisons.

And as the time passes, be sure to try the search button for several years worth of unknown posters' opinions on these well-known pieces. It's webnotic.

Your ale-filled friend,
Old 17th July 2008
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
You should check the latency of these converters. The Lavry Gold (and possibly the others) has too much delay for overdub situations.
WOW !! Thanks for that info. This is the exact stuff I like to hear. So as per your input, I will definitely be checking into and comparing the latency of these converters.

THANKS again Zep Dude !!
Old 17th July 2008
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinwale View Post
Wow mate, you're sucking at the web's poison teat behind a wall of aunt sallies.
Hmmmm, not quite sure if I understand you on this one, but if it is what I think you mean, I would have to say that is exactly what I am HOPE I AM NOT doing. ha ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinwale View Post
Good luck with your . . . facility renovation,
Thanks, I am sure it will be a LONG time... so I must be patient. I am told 8 months at least. And if you know construction, that means about 2 more years !!! LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinwale View Post
and with the overwhelming burden that would so clearly arise if you should end up having to choose for yourself between three instead of two currently made pieces of kit that can be obtained for free in-studio auditions via the manufacturers' liaisons.
Maybe things are different in the UK sir. But here and especially the Bay Area, our Audio stores SUCK compared to LA or NY. And it would be real hard for me to get a place that has or can get them exact 3 units all set up properly to do "button switch" A/B comparisons between them and all for free. I will tell you now it is impossible. MAYBE I could rent them, but for me that also don't help right now. If there was a store it would be "The Cutting Edge", and anything they do for you like that, you would then be obligated to make the purchase through them. Which I am NOT doing. Their prices are horrible compared to what I can pull off elsewhere once I know what I want. So it may SEEM easier to accomplish this to some of you guys, but really try to understand, I am not a idiot, I am in this deep and for a while and I have thought and thought and thought, and in my exact situation, it is going to be hard to get a hold of all 3 of these units at the same time in the same place all set up for A/B'ing. And these "free in-studio auditions" from the manufacturer,,, I have not heard of. If this is so, please explain. THANKS !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinwale View Post
And as the time passes, be sure to try the search button for several years worth of unknown posters' opinions on these well-known pieces. It's webnotic.
Your ale-filled friend,
Now that I have done, and the posts in some of them threads are just sporadic and emotional to say the least. Honestly that is why I started this thread in the manor I did. To get different results as them other past threads on them had and to weed out the emotions and people who haven't actually heard these units.
Old 18th July 2008
  #12
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trustyjim's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infa View Post
And these "free in-studio auditions" from the manufacturer,,, I have not heard of. If this is so, please explain.
Call up Vintage King or Mercenary Audio and arrange for them to ship you the units you are interested in. They should be more than happy to! Their prices are great, and when you're finished you keep your favorite unit and send the others back.
Old 18th July 2008
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
I recommend a dCS converter for you.

Several reasons are:

1. these converters do not use an a/d chip--instead they use
a dCS designed gate array a/d to do the job. Everything is optimized in this approach.

2. Everything about this company's designs is oriented towards the best audio quality, not computer features.

3. Top Top people world wide use these designs without fanfare or marketing garbage. The reason they use them is that the sound is outstanding.

4. 1 U frame contains all that you require.

I know what I'm talking about.
Old 18th July 2008
  #14
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
I love customers who wanna spend the most money without a real need.

The three mastering converters you have chosen are well beyond your requirements...or knowledge so it seems.

Just buy the most expensive...since dollars seem to have greater significance than sound.


Jeff Briss at Cutting Edge should be your best local source of gear and info.


BTW...you forgot the Pacific Microsonics

Last edited by MIKEHARRIS; 18th July 2008 at 03:50 PM.. Reason: patience required
Old 18th July 2008
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I recommend a dCS converter for you.

Several reasons are:

1. these converters do not use an a/d chip--instead they use
a dCS designed gate array a/d to do the job. Everything is optimized in this approach.

2. Everything about this company's designs is oriented towards the best audio quality, not computer features.

3. Top Top people world wide use these designs without fanfare or marketing garbage. The reason they use them is that the sound is outstanding.

4. 1 U frame contains all that you require.

I know what I'm talking about.
Awesome !! Thanks for the info. Very valuable. I am looking into that immediately. I heard the same thing too from several sources (about no chip is best). The Lavry Gold is designed that way.

Thanks again !! This is the exact info I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
I love customers who wanna spend the most money without a real need.

The three mastering converters you have chosen are well beyond your requirements...or knowledge so it seems.

Just buy the most expensive...since dollars seem to have greater significance than sound.

Jeff Briss at Cutting Edge should be your best local source of gear and info.

BTW...you forgot the Pacific Microsonics
Wow !!. Thanks alot for not giving me credit where credit is due. Wonder why ? Attacking me like this ? Hmmmm. Maybe I have mislead you to believe something other than the truth and it is my fault......so......

Let me clarify to you so you understand me a little more.

#1 - I am NOT wanting to spend the most money. Hell I wish the converters I like were dirt cheap. BUT after me many years ago putting a Rosetta in the signal chain, taking it out, trying it again to be sure, etc... and telling a complete difference in EVERY sound I put through it, I realized that day, wow !! AD conversion is pretty much one of the most important things to RECORDING digitally in a DAW. Using it for every little single sound or riff or loop or anything going in made a significant difference in the sound of my big complete final songs. I don't know about you, but I like that !! So lets clear that up now... I LOVE GOOD CONVERSION !!! I could be wrong, but IMO it is the simple most important thing (and let me add to that also the best Mic/Line pres you can get too) in a chain now a days on the way IN a DAW system because anything else can change or be applied later if necessary. But not a good high end BEST quality possible "capture" of your sound. That needs to be done by conversion and is NOT reversible. So please understand, that is at least how I feel IMO.

Now lets forward it by many years - knowing I will not do anything with out conversion and growing to the statute I did, over the last few years I try to get the best conversion I can... WHY NOT ? So then I got to the next level, the next level, tried alot, denied alot, etc...Many moons and converters later I have my favorites from experience, not here say or price. Please understand that.

I am setting up a new mobile system, so I must try to narrow it down to the best I can get/afford with still getting good bang for buck. PLEASE KNOW THIS I did not blindly put up 3 converters I just thought was great because I heard people talking about them and they are expensive !! NO !! To not get into a LONG story, I have chosen the Weiss and Lavry Gold because I have personally heard them out do several of my many years of FAVORITE converters in a simple A/B test. I was astonished. The Prism now, I have NOT heard and I added on there because that is where I need help, I want to know if you guys out there think it is even worthy to bring in for my final analysis for demo'ing for my decision day.

#2 - They are not "beyond my means". I like the sound I get from OVER DO'ING quality needs. Each sound going through one of them converters creates such a rich, deep 3D texture for EACH ingredient that once all assembled,,, I achieve what I love. Thats all man... how can you question that ? To mean there is no such thing as "beyond someones means".... If you bought a Limo one day just to go to the liquor store I would say COOL !!! I would not demean you. Because I knew one day it would pay off for reasons none of us ever knew, AND ultimately you would be traveling to the liquor store IN STYLE BABY !! STYLE !!! lol - Bottom line brother is no matter what I am doing or you think I am doing I want the BEST 2 channel conversion I can buy with-in 9k or less... 2 Channels only... That mostly likely means that with out try to or meaning to I would end up with a "mastering" converter... right ?

#3 - Thanks for the Cutting Edge suggestion. I do know them guys a bit. But to be honest don't really like their fiendish selling attitudes, or especially their prices. At least from my past experiences with them... A little snobby too. Like they know better than you or something.. Real bad vibes I got from them. But I have my other means... Seriously though, thanks for the looks folks !!

#4 - And finally I must clear this up. I did not forget about Pacific Microsonics. I do know of them converters oh so well. I am a fan of the same design Lavry and what Plush said about the DCS converter has - No A/D chip for conversion !! Awesome !! They sounded awesome too man !! Yes they are one of the best for sure... BUT as you now know I was NOT just putting up there the best converters in the world ever or the most expensive ones (as it seem now from both these statements of yours that you THOUGHT I was) - But instead I was putting up ones I said for the reasons above and here is what kept the Pacific Microsonics out for me... I want the unit to be able to be bought brand new. From my understanding and looking around, you can't buy these anymore new, and it is hard enough to find a used one. But spending the kind of capital I am will to spend on 2 channels of conversion I really want a new unit for no hassles for MANY years to come. Hopefully the rest of my life.

With all due respect Mike, I hope this clarifies some misunderstandings you may have perceived from my posts.... Thanks for posting though, and hopefully I can get some input on how the Prism Dream AD holds up against these other 2 I know about, and the details !! You wouldn't happen to know would you ?
Old 18th July 2008
  #16
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Weiss has excellent built in mike preamps. That would tip the balance for me.
Old 19th July 2008
  #17
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tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Have heard all three units... but please keep in mind, not at the same time nor have i owned any of these units nor am i a professional in a "look heres my webpage "sense. So a grain of salt i suppose.

Bang for buck - unquestionably the Weiss adc2 , preamps were great for stringed instruments and stereo setups (didnt get a chance for horns, drum OHs etc). Without a doubt the best for a barebones HQ mobile rig. Plenty of I/O options , meters are really great for seeing from far distances etc and should u ever need redundancy say a sound file from teh mobile rig very easy to do... as both channels can be run independant of each other at different sample rates (record say a VO at two different rates at the same time to two seperate recorders).

sound wise - all three are incredible... have to really get them all in together and take quite a while to differentiate between them....and the differences would be very hair splitting for sure.

the Weiss reminds me of a higher quality Apogee Trak2 had you not mentioned you were looking for a brand new unit (although can find Trak2s new)... id recommend the Weiss for mobile work the other two for a Mastering situation ie - always in the rack.

2cents

cheers
Old 20th July 2008
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Weiss has excellent built in mike preamps. That would tip the balance for me.
Thanks Bob, yeah I have been letting that tip the balance for me too. But I was wondering how the Mic Pres in that Weiss held up to some others ? The other unit(s) I was planing on filling up the limited RU space I have for this system are 2 (one for each channel) of the SSL XLogic SuperAnalogue Channels. They have the "super analogue" (which I am a huge fan of - the best analogue circuitry with a noise floor as low as the best digital noise floor !!) along with that they have SSL's signature Mic Pres, Compression, and EQ. So it would kill all my birds with one stone except conversion. And ha ha, Actually I could get the "AD Conversion Card" for them and have SSL do it all in 2 RU's !! Which would be great in theory. BUT I have serious doubts how the quality of that SSL converter card holds up against any of these 3 units here on this post that I am asking about.

So my question is, how does the Mic Pres in Weiss's AD Converter hold up to the XLogic SuperAnalogue Channel Mic Pres ? Do you know ? Or does anyone else know ? Cause it might be possible I ditch the idea of getting the XLogic SuperAnalogue Channels if I get the Weiss and them Mic Pres are all that... Maybe ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
Have heard all three units... but please keep in mind, not at the same time nor have i owned any of these units nor am i a professional in a "look heres my webpage "sense. So a grain of salt i suppose.

Bang for buck - unquestionably the Weiss adc2 , preamps were great for stringed instruments and stereo setups (didnt get a chance for horns, drum OHs etc). Without a doubt the best for a barebones HQ mobile rig. Plenty of I/O options , meters are really great for seeing from far distances etc and should u ever need redundancy say a sound file from teh mobile rig very easy to do... as both channels can be run independant of each other at different sample rates (record say a VO at two different rates at the same time to two seperate recorders).

sound wise - all three are incredible... have to really get them all in together and take quite a while to differentiate between them....and the differences would be very hair splitting for sure.

the Weiss reminds me of a higher quality Apogee Trak2 had you not mentioned you were looking for a brand new unit (although can find Trak2s new)... id recommend the Weiss for mobile work the other two for a Mastering situation ie - always in the rack.
Thanks for the valuable post tuRnitUpsuM !! Exactly the kind of info I am looking for.
If you are really serious about all of them having only "spliting hair" sound quality differences ( them even being subjectional differences) - then yea, I would like to save $2,500 and get the cheapest of the 3, the Weiss.

Another thing that is a plus for the Weiss (described above by Bob and I) ALSO becomes maybe a weak point for it for me personally. The built in Mic Pres. Yes they are great IF I decide they are better than anything else I can get or do, BUT if I end up not using them and lets say using the SSL's or whatever else I may do, THEN honestly they are just in the converter for nothing. Adding weight, heat, etc...

Weight and heat are 2 big things for me in this set up.

Also as mentioned above, I could honestly get them SSL XLogic SuperAnalogue Channels with the extra SSL AD Conversion card in them and have EVERYTHING knocked out in 2 space RU !! But how does SSL conversion hold up against Weiss, Lavry Gold and Prism Dream ? I never heard SSL conversion yet honestly.

Whats your personal thoughts on that ?
Old 20th July 2008
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I recommend a dCS converter for you.

Several reasons are:

1. these converters do not use an a/d chip--instead they use
a dCS designed gate array a/d to do the job. Everything is optimized in this approach.

2. Everything about this company's designs is oriented towards the best audio quality, not computer features.

3. Top Top people world wide use these designs without fanfare or marketing garbage. The reason they use them is that the sound is outstanding.

4. 1 U frame contains all that you require.

I know what I'm talking about.
Good recommendation, but are they still selling the pro audio converters? On their website I can only find audiophile consumer products.
Old 21st July 2008
  #20
Lives for gear
 
tuRnitUpsuM's Avatar
 

Hi Infa,

Actually before i say anything about my personal thoughts on the SSL setup... i have to step back and correct myself on the info i gave... its the bit depths not sample rate that is independant...i mentioned the recorder part and figured folks might get what i initially meant but figure just correct it all the same.

I can understand what you mean about adding too many components to a unit and teh intended functionality will suffer...but to be honest this isnt the case with the Weiss unit...conversion is top-notch while the pre-amps are more than usuable...sometimes i found them preferrable just really depended on the application...the weight isnt really too much a concern as its only a gain stage, and heatwise the unit remained cool. (although it wasnt on for hours and hours) but i cant see that being problematic though.

I cant honestly say i have heard SSL conversion yet... i have had an eye on an Alpha-link unit, there was a time i was really interested in a Soundscape set-up and still am. and although i am sure the SSL units are more than capable...i just cant see them getting too close to these three units but that is IMHBO and would love to be surprised.

like to mention tho...that the SSL rig suffers more so from the add too much syndrome u mention as you are adding conversion circuitry to a channel strip. As well as more weight in this setup as the Weiss unit is 1RU as opposed to 2RU.

cheers Infa...

good luck and with all the available options you've mentioned...a quality rig is the outcome no matter the choice.
Old 21st July 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Geez--
Much to my surprise and chagrin, I now have learned that dCS has ceased manufacturing its line of pro converters. They stopped making them in summer 2007. I did not know that. Too bad.

Now they are a hi-end hi-fi company.
Old 21st July 2008
  #22
Lives for gear
 
DSD_Mastering's Avatar
My vote would be the Lavry Gold III. I have both the DAD AX24 and the Meitners and the Gold is as close as you're gonna get.

Someone suggested the Pacific Microsonics. Not in production and IF you could pry it out of someone's hands.. .expect to pay at least $15k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Geez--
Much to my surprise and chagrin, I now have learned that dCS has ceased manufacturing its line of pro converters. They stopped making them in summer 2007. I did not know that. Too bad.
Now they are a hi-end hi-fi company.
That's sad to hear. I also heard the same with EMM Labs/Meitner... sad indeed...


Regards,
Bruce
Old 21st July 2008
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Geez--
Much to my surprise and chagrin, I now have learned that dCS has ceased manufacturing its line of pro converters. They stopped making them in summer 2007. I did not know that. Too bad.
DAMN !!! - LOL - I was wondering why I couldn't seem to find it. But I was waiting to put more time on the internet searching before I said anything.

Plush, do you have a exact full name of the converter you were thinking about ? I googled DCS Converters, but I could tell having a exact model # would help. Because I could maybe google it and hopefully track a unit down... Gotta be 1 somewhere still in the box sitting in a warehouse... MAYBE.. ha

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
Hi Infa,

Actually before i say anything about my personal thoughts on the SSL setup... i have to step back and correct myself on the info i gave... its the bit depths not sample rate that is independant...i mentioned the recorder part and figured folks might get what i initially meant but figure just correct it all the same.
No prob dude, I figured that as I went to triple check on the Weiss site. I thought it was only the Prism that did the complete independent channels SR and all. Its still cool about the Weiss though, having it do bit depth independently per channel just might be used by me one day.. maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuRnitUpsuM View Post
I can understand what you mean about adding too many components to a unit and teh intended functionality will suffer...but to be honest this isnt the case with the Weiss unit...conversion is top-notch while the pre-amps are more than usuable...sometimes i found them preferrable just really depended on the application...the weight isnt really too much a concern as its only a gain stage, and heatwise the unit remained cool. (although it wasnt on for hours and hours) but i cant see that being problematic though.

I cant honestly say i have heard SSL conversion yet... i have had an eye on an Alpha-link unit, there was a time i was really interested in a Soundscape set-up and still am. and although i am sure the SSL units are more than capable...i just cant see them getting too close to these three units but that is IMHBO and would love to be surprised.

like to mention tho...that the SSL rig suffers more so from the add too much syndrome u mention as you are adding conversion circuitry to a channel strip. As well as more weight in this setup as the Weiss unit is 1RU as opposed to 2RU.

cheers Infa...

good luck and with all the available options you've mentioned...a quality rig is the outcome no matter the choice.
Agreed, and I do know the SSL's could be no where near these 3. But I thought I would at least ask some opinions on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering View Post
My vote would be the Lavry Gold III. I have both the DAD AX24 and the Meitners and the Gold is as close as you're gonna get.

Someone suggested the Pacific Microsonics. Not in production and IF you could pry it out of someone's hands.. .expect to pay at least $15k

Regards,
Bruce
Thanks Bruce. Yea I tell ya, as much as a Pacific Microsonics sounds like something I would wanna check out and hear, I agree with the idea of getting one is pretty much nonexistent and unrealistic for me for several reasons. Plus spending this much bread on something I really feel more comfortable getting a warranty, having support still for it, parts and everything, etc..

So your vote is Lavry 100% ? Bruce, can I please ask you for slightly more details as far as what it is you mean when you say "The Lavry Gold is as close as I'm gonna get" ? Close as in ? Absolute excellent sound ? Depth ? Width ? Detail ? How would you describe its superiorness over the Prism Dream or the Weiss and why ?

Thanks man...
Old 21st July 2008
  #24
Lives for gear
 
DSD_Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infa View Post
So your vote is Lavry 100% ? Bruce, can I please ask you for slightly more details as far as what it is you mean when you say "The Lavry Gold is as close as I'm gonna get" ? Close as in ? Absolute excellent sound ? Depth ? Width ? Detail ? How would you describe its superiorness over the Prism Dream or the Weiss and why ?
Thanks man...
The dCS models you are looking for are the 904/905 and 954/955. Here is a review by Pro Audio Review

I've gone through many converters over the past couple of years looking for the "holy grail". I've listened intently to the Prism/Genex/Lavry/dCS/Pacific Microsonics/Weiss/DAD/Meitner and HEDD. I was looking for the best PCM and DSD converters. It would have been a bonus if was 1 box. Unfortunately it isn't... sorta'. DXD is PCM
The DAD has the very best DSD/DXD sound. What goes in, comes out... no colorations or monkey business.
On the PCM side, the Pacific Microsonics is the best converter at 176.4 and below. Since it's no longer available, then the Lavry Gold fits the bill. It doesn't have the low-end weight of the PM machine, but it's kind'a unfair since the PM machine has HDCD encoding which makes it very "musical".
The Lavry is very coherent from top to bottom. It doesn't have the last bit of upper detail and stereo width/imaging that the DSD/DXD converters have. It is very true to the source and can take some abuse going in. I have my Meitners for sale now and have a blank check for a PM or Lavry Gold rig.

Regards,
Bruce
Old 21st July 2008
  #25
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep Dude View Post
You should check the latency of these converters. The Lavry Gold (and possibly the others) has too much delay for overdub situations.
Sorry to hi-jack this tread ...
But what kind of latency are we talking about? 1 ms, 10 ms or 100 ms?
I would like to add a weiss A/D to my set up, but I can´t seem to find any details of this units latency.
How much latency would be acceptable for overdubs?
Old 21st July 2008
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Geez--
Much to my surprise and chagrin, I now have learned that dCS has ceased manufacturing its line of pro converters. They stopped making them in summer 2007. I did not know that. Too bad.

Now they are a hi-end hi-fi company.
That's really too bad. I've had nothing but admiration for their design since hearing it in a high-end converter shootout a number of years ago.

But you really can't blame them. There are apparently more consumers willing to pay high prices for converters than there are audio engineers. Plus, the profit margins are much higher.

I remember visiting John La Grou at the Millennia booth during an AES convention. He proudly showed me one of the custom phono preamps he'd built for the Library of Congress. I forget how many he'd sold them -- maybe a dozen? "That's really lovely." I said, "Now all you have to do to make some real money is paint it a different color and increase the price by a factor of five. Then you can sell it to audiophiles!" heh

I'd be curious to know what the product mix (Pro vs. Consumer) is over at Manley Labs. I'll bet you an eastern bloc 12AX7 that the consumer stuff pays a lot of the bills.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording
Old 22nd July 2008
  #27
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maclogic View Post
Sorry to hi-jack this tread ...
But what kind of latency are we talking about? 1 ms, 10 ms or 100 ms?
I would like to add a weiss A/D to my set up, but I can´t seem to find any details of this units latency.
How much latency would be acceptable for overdubs?
The ADC2 latency is as follows:

sampling rate: 44.1k, latency: 2.6 ms
sampling rate: 48.0k, latency: 2.49ms
sampling rate: 88.2k, latency: 1.8ms
sampling rate: 96.0k, latency: 1.75ms
sampling rate: 176.4k, latency: 1.4ms
sampling rate: 192.0k, latency: 1.38ms

Daniel
Old 22nd July 2008
  #28
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by weiss2496 View Post
The ADC2 latency is as follows:

sampling rate: 44.1k, latency: 2.6 ms
sampling rate: 48.0k, latency: 2.49ms
sampling rate: 88.2k, latency: 1.8ms
sampling rate: 96.0k, latency: 1.75ms
sampling rate: 176.4k, latency: 1.4ms
sampling rate: 192.0k, latency: 1.38ms

Daniel
Awesome !! Thanks for the info Daniel. Saves me a call I was going to give you tomorrow !! LOL

NOW, can we get a chime in from Lavry and Prism on the same specs of latency on the units I asked about ?
Old 22nd July 2008
  #29
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solidstate's Avatar
 

dude, you can't just ask people which converter are good for you! Why? I like apogees and you don't! At that level of conversion it's just a matter of personal taste, really! Your wasting your time splitting hairs man

Instead of cluttering the board with this kind of post(x VS x VS x)get a demo of the converters when you're ready and pick the one you like. I think you should try other converters too. Not always "more expensive" is better.Let me ask you one question.. Are sure you can tell the difference(and justify the +9000$ price tag) between apogee and lavry? My 2 cents..
Old 22nd July 2008
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Thanks Daniel!
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