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Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?
Old 16th January 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

I have no life, I record, mix and come on here,TV sucksdfegad I have Protools HD1 with 8 analog outs.
I have been thinking about an analog mixer, so from your experiences with protools does any all summing within protools suck? Is direct out of each track to an analog console the only way to go? I was think of getting a really good analog sidecar dealeo but is 4 or 8 pairs out of protools even worth doing?
Now I don't think a neve sidecar is going to make me a better engineer right off but I would like to use some analog gear at mix time
Maybe you think TV sucks right now too, or maybe I do cause I post so much all in search of the ultimate mix..
thanks
daniel
Old 16th January 2003
  #2
Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
I have no life, I record, mix and come on here,TV sucksdfegad I have Protools HD1 with 8 analog outs.
I have been thinking about an analog mixer, so from your experiences with protools does any all summing within protools suck? Is direct out of each track to an analog console the only way to go? I was think of getting a really good analog sidecar dealeo but is 4 or 8 pairs out of protools even worth doing?
Now I don't think a neve sidecar is going to make me a better engineer right off but I would like to use some analog gear at mix time
Maybe you think TV sucks right now too, or maybe I do cause I post so much all in search of the ultimate mix..
thanks
daniel
Hey Daniel,

Suggestion. Instead of racking your brains over this issue and missing out on TV(there are good shows out there by the way) why not save the dough you are going to spend on a halfway solution and pay a professional mixer to mix your music?

I look at like this: lets say you had a problem with a septic system in your house or a leak somewhere, would you run out and buy all the tools a plumber would use and try to fix it yourself? Or would you just bite the bullet and call a plumber?

I know there is a plumber forum somewhere(mental note-do a search in Google for a plumbers forum), but there are some things that only a specialist can fix. That's why they get paid to do what they do.

Maybe the problem isn't the summing buss,or analog breakouts,or plugins, or (fill in the blank). Maybe the problem is someone else needs a crack at your music. Maybe an idea is hire someone who specializes in PT mixing and see how far they get with it. It might be a good learning experience, sorta what happens when you go to a professional mastering session.

Just a thought.
Old 16th January 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Daniel,

Maybe the problem isn't the summing buss,or analog breakouts,or plugins, or (fill in the blank). Maybe the problem is someone else needs a crack at your music. Maybe an idea is hire someone who specializes in PT mixing and see how far they get with it. It might be a good learning experience, sorta what happens when you go to a professional mastering session.
Just a thought.
Point taken Maybe I should stay within Protools, as most of the time I have to record and mix 3 songs for a band in 10 hours or so. Thrill, I wouldn't think this is something you have to contend with very often is it? I realize that I have more to learn about protools, still miss the analog hardware though
I know Jules has had good experience with the Dangerous 2 buss, are there any others of you on here with an "in between"
situation like mine?
Thanks
daniel
Old 16th January 2003
  #4
Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
Point taken Maybe I should stay within Protools, as most of the time I have to record and mix 3 songs for a band in 10 hours or so. Thrill, I wouldn't think this is something you have to contend with very often is it? I realize that I have more to learn about protools, still miss the analog hardware though
I know Jules has had good experience with the Dangerous 2 buss, are there any others of you on here with an "in between"
situation like mine?
Thanks
daniel
Hey Daniel,

Just go with what works for you. If its in the box or out of it. Nowadays I mix on both. I think i am pretty decent on both(or my clients think so. They still pay me afterwards).heh

I have produced and or recorded things that I felt having someone else mix it was a better idea(and it was).

Like the song says"You gotta know when to hold them, You gotta know when to fold them".

Learn your strengths and your weaknesses and act accordingly.

That is the key to getting far in this business.
Old 18th January 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Daniel,

Just go with what works for you. If its in the box or out of it. Nowadays I mix on both. I think i am pretty decent on both(or my clients think so. They still pay me afterwards).heh

I have produced and or recorded things that I felt having someone else mix it was a better idea(and it was).

Like the song says"You gotta know when to hold them, You gotta know when to fold them".

Learn your strengths and your weaknesses and act accordingly.
That is the key to getting far in this business.
Thrill, thanks for kind words I should have worded the title of the thread,"caught between Canada and New YOrk City"
ooh thats baad! Last Year was the best year my studio has had in 12 years of operation and this year I think will top that.
But, this is Maine(2nd worst economy in the nation) so I can't get the Neve just yet
I have protools and a whole bunch of outboard, pres and comps and No Mixer. I don't know the last time you tracked drums bass guitar keys and vox without a console but for me, I think I'd rather a mixer so I can mix and match pres and comps. It'd be nice to be able to use analog at mix time too.
I guess while I'm wishing I'd like some of the talented musicians and songwriters you guys get down your way too.
Soooo, what to get for under $25k ?
thanks
daniel
Old 18th January 2003
  #6
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
Thrill, thanks for kind words I should have worded the title of the thread,"caught between Canada and New YOrk City"
ooh thats baad! Last Year was the best year my studio has had in 12 years of operation and this year I think will top that.
But, this is Maine(2nd worst economy in the nation) so I can't get the Neve just yet
I have protools and a whole bunch of outboard, pres and comps and No Mixer. I don't know the last time you tracked drums bass guitar keys and vox without a console but for me, I think I'd rather a mixer so I can mix and match pres and comps. It'd be nice to be able to use analog at mix time too.
I guess while I'm wishing I'd like some of the talented musicians and songwriters you guys get down your way too.
Soooo, what to get for under $25k ?
thanks
daniel

Under $25K...

Is automation and recall important?

How many channels?

How big(can your existing studio hold a 9'console)?

Is the sound important(ie transparency versus a fixed sonic signature)?

How about stuff like routing features(subgrouping,lots of auxes)?

Are you or your clients worried about the name?

Are you just summing 8 PT outs(stems) or are you really mixing on this thing?(Which means you will need at least another HD192 and 2 extra D/A breakouts for 32 channel mixing). This will drive up the cost beyond $25K, and i didn't even mention the wiring.

Take the time and answer these and maybe I can recommend some suggestions.

Peace Maine man.
Old 18th January 2003
  #7
An option for more outputs on a budget might be Apogee DA16's fed from a Digital only HD interface. "Digi i/o" You could get your rig to output 40 ch with two of each. 96k too!
Old 18th January 2003
  #8
Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
I know there is a plumber forum somewhere(mental note-do a search in Google for a plumbers forum)
You mean like this?
Old 18th January 2003
  #9
Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
You mean like this?
Hey Brad,

Too much time on your hands?heh

Just kidding, this is has to be the find of the year for a gearslut!!!

Maybe I can figure out now how i am going to put in my new fountain in my new studio.

When things get hectic...
or when clients get out of hand with demands...

My fountain of tranquility will be there to bring peace and harmony to all!!!

Hey who cares about a stupid capuccino machine(like NYC doesn't have enough cafes). I will have a FOUNTAIN!!!

(Let me calm down now!! Just kidding of course!!)heh
Old 18th January 2003
  #10
Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
You mean like this?
Just read the posting on:

Toilet Bowl Reddish Brown deposits.

One of the posters had this comment
"The water is clear, colorless and tastes great.

Hey after this comment, I think I will stick to music afterall.

heh
Old 18th January 2003
  #11
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Just read the posting on:

Toilet Bowl Reddish Brown deposits.

One of the posters had this comment
"The water is clear, colorless and tastes great.

Hey after this comment, I think I will stick to music afterall.

heh
I can't figure out which is more sad, that I took the time to find that and post it or that you took the time to read it...

heehee
Old 18th January 2003
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Re : Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

The answer is NO.

Do YOU need it to make it sound good?
The answer is maybe.

Does one need it to make it sound Analog?
The answer is probably.

Sorry to be so definitive.

Depends on your budget. Buy more gear if you want to (I usually do). But its not "required". Especially not with HD (mix is another story).
Old 18th January 2003
  #13
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Depends on what your idea of good is.

To lend some perspective on another subject:

Look back in 3 years' time at the "Mix mixing doesn't cut it but HD mixing sounds great" posts...by then, folks will be saying that HD doesn't cut the mustard anymore.

heh
Old 18th January 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 

your new mixer.........

Soooo, what to get for under $25k ?
thanks
daniel
***********************************

$25K is a decent amount of budget in today's console market. For brand new mixers, you're kinda limited, but there are some great options; here's one choice -

Tri Tech TS24, a 32x24 update of the Trident 80, is right at the top of your budget. But you're getting a serious, full size, full featured, great sounding pro desk for a fraction of what comparable models cost a few years ago.

But when it comes to used desks, you have a huge amount of options; you are able to select from almost everything except very high end or vintage consoles. If I had @25k to spend on a console right now, (and needed a full size board) I'd grab the cleanest Trident TSM I could find. These were $40K+ plus only a few years ago. (not needing something that large, I'd probably look for a little API 1604, but most guys want more I/O than that)

But if you don't want somthing quite as old as a TSM, there are countless more modern boards that originally sold for $40 to $100K that are now selling within your budget. The key point in a crazy market like this is to hold out until you find a really clean desk with a detailed maintenance log. There are plenty of $25k boards out there that will require another $25k just to make them usable. But there are so many for sale that you can also find plenty of $25k boards that will require nothing other than a proper installation to get it ready for years of reliable service.

This is a fantastic time to be buying used recording equipment, and like always, the more money you have to spend, the more opportunities are available to you. For $25k (or a good deal less) you can acquire a serious professional console with decades of useful life ahead of it. Which one depends on your specific needs, but you'll have plenty to choose from.

steve
Old 19th January 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Under $25K...

Is automation and recall important?

How many channels?

How big(can your existing studio hold a 9'console)?

Is the sound important(ie transparency versus a fixed sonic signature)?

How about stuff like routing features(subgrouping,lots of auxes)?

Are you or your clients worried about the name?

Are you just summing 8 PT outs(stems) or are you really mixing on this thing?(Which means you will need at least another HD192 and 2 extra D/A breakouts for 32 channel mixing). This will drive up the cost beyond $25K, and i didn't even mention the wiring.

Take the time and answer these and maybe I can recommend some suggestions.

Peace Maine man.
Well, what I was wondering was, is can you get Pro quality going out of protools with only 16 outs and use the automation of
Protools and use the summing,inserts and eq of the console?
I'm wondering how detrimental the summing of protools is? Would you have to have 32 outs to get it to sound good?
The sound is very important, I can fit a 9ft console in my room, the name isn't important and it would only need a few auxes.
I guess I'm wondering how you move up to this sort of thing?
My gear is all paid for and I'd like to keep it that way. how is the hell do you know what the next move up is from mixing in the box? I guess I like the idea of the Daking rig is that I wouldn't have to take it somewhere to get it fixed and I like 16 channels for easier recallability, and less cost/higher quality per channel?
Ya think this would be a waste of time? Thanks thrill,
daniel

Old 19th January 2003
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
An option for more outputs on a budget might be Apogee DA16's fed from a Digital only HD interface. "Digi i/o" You could get your rig to output 40 ch with two of each. 96k too!
Jules, I hadn't thought of that great, idea
This is an extravagance, more than I would need for my level of client and my rate but I don't have a boat or a sports car, I drive a 93' toyota! It's pretty hard to find many guys using protools that aren't using dangerous 2 buss,digital boards or high end analog boards, not much at the lower endyuktyy
Take care,
daniel
Old 19th January 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Well, the last 2 projects I've done were mixed in the HD box and they don't suck. However I used a good bit of outboard, mainly comps and reverbs/fx. I sure would have like to mix them on an SSL or VR but that would have meant I'd work for free... NOT a great idea!
Old 19th January 2003
  #18
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
Well, what I was wondering was, is can you get Pro quality going out of protools with only 16 outs and use the automation of
Protools and use the summing,inserts and eq of the console?
I'm wondering how detrimental the summing of protools is? Would you have to have 32 outs to get it to sound good?
The sound is very important, I can fit a 9ft console in my room, the name isn't important and it would only need a few auxes.
I guess I'm wondering how you move up to this sort of thing?
My gear is all paid for and I'd like to keep it that way. how is the hell do you know what the next move up is from mixing in the box? I guess I like the idea of the Daking rig is that I wouldn't have to take it somewhere to get it fixed and I like 16 channels for easier recallability, and less cost/higher quality per channel?
Ya think this would be a waste of time? Thanks thrill,
daniel

Hey Daniel,

Its great that all of your gear is paid for, I wish some of us could say the same thing.

I only recommended 32 outs because most songs today are basically 32 tracks and up(unless you are doing 2 track stereo work).

Most of the PT/Analog studios are 48 tracks and up(usually 64). But these consoles are monsters(101 input 9000J).

When mixing on an analog console i prefer to have as many things as I can seperated so i can treat them accordingly(makes it much easier to control the mix).

I guess you can get away with doing your auto in PT(I've done it and alot of guys here in NYC do it even when working on a 9000J).

What sort of music are you doing the most at your place?Rock?Rap?Pop/Rnb/Reggae/Jazz?Industrial/Jingles or voice overs? This will kinda give me an idea if going analog(for you) is really beneficial.

I kinda feel that rock benefits alot when mixing in the analog realm(both for the vibe and the sound). Rap can go either way(depends on the initial tracks) and if the producer will be present(he may want to do "drops" on the fly and then analog mutes is the only way to go). Pop/Rnb same thing(even though I prefer to mix on a console).Reggae analog all the way(even though some of the more modern stuff is mixed in PT). Jazz is a toss up(sometimes its more about the vibe and gaining the clients confidence). Some Jazz guys need convincing. Country(ask Dave Martin) sinve I've been back in NYC i've only mixed 2 country like projects in the last 5 years and that was mixed on a analog console. Industrial/Jingles/voice overs all PT.

Basically your clientele will be the biggest determining factor, because in the end through their bookings you will be paying for it.

I think with the Daking my biggest questions would be: 5 years from now I want to upgrade can I ...a)sell it? b)expand it? c)how much will it depreciate?d)in those five years did I get my $25K worth?
Old 19th January 2003
  #19
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

To reply to the initial question : Does PT require direct outs to sound good ?


Simple and short answer : no.


Knowing how to do that is another issue. It is my very humble opinion that Mixing within PT requires skills and lots and lots of experience. The same skills and experience it requires to get a good sound out of an SSL or a Neve or whatever high end mixer you work on.
Old 20th January 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
In short: Yes

Because even experineced guys still have to work way harder achieving the same results they can get on other systems.
Old 20th January 2003
  #21
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

and that explains what ??? that they can get the same results but just have to work harder ????

Wouldn't that mean the short answer would still be NO ???


Anyhow, what I'm also trying to say is (and said about a zillion times before) .... that if you don't like the sound of the PT mix bus ... stay away from it. Mix on an SSL ... great. But please stop moaning about how YOU cannot get a great sound mixing in ProTools because there are plenty of people who can.

It is no longer a quality matter .... it has become a matter of taste. If you like the sound of analog ... great .... so do I. But I also like the sound of digital .... I really do. I like anything which has a good sound ... and frankly ... that has NOTHING to do with the medium it has been recorded, mixed, or mastered on. There is great stuff out there for every medium to prove that.
Old 20th January 2003
  #22
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman
In short: Yes

Because even experineced guys still have to work way harder achieving the same results they can get on other systems.
Depending on the genre (I generally agree with thrill) and other variables, one might be able to get acceptable results within PT...though it kind of depends on what you consider "good" and "acceptable".

But, until someone brings out an SSL modeling plug-in grggt, it won't sound like an SSL.
Old 20th January 2003
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
I guess it is a matter of taste. You eithe rlike flat one dimensional sounding mixes, or you don't. I don't.

I laos think that alot of people who say it doesn't matter are doing alot of synth and sample based stuff. Which to me makes sense, because the original source is form somehting already digitized by asampler or something else. probably originating at a 16 bit sample rate.

Quite differnt from real instruments etc.
Old 20th January 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Daniel,

Its great that all of your gear is paid for, I wish some of us could say the same thing.

I only recommended 32 outs because most songs today are basically 32 tracks and up(unless you are doing 2 track stereo work).

Most of the PT/Analog studios are 48 tracks and up(usually 64). But these consoles are monsters(101 input 9000J).

When mixing on an analog console i prefer to have as many things as I can seperated so i can treat them accordingly(makes it much easier to control the mix).

I guess you can get away with doing your auto in PT(I've done it and alot of guys here in NYC do it even when working on a 9000J).

What sort of music are you doing the most at your place?Rock?Rap?Pop/Rnb/Reggae/Jazz?Industrial/Jingles or voice overs? This will kinda give me an idea if going analog(for you) is really beneficial.

I kinda feel that rock benefits alot when mixing in the analog realm(both for the vibe and the sound). Rap can go either way(depends on the initial tracks) and if the producer will be present(he may want to do "drops" on the fly and then analog mutes is the only way to go). Pop/Rnb same thing(even though I prefer to mix on a console).Reggae analog all the way(even though some of the more modern stuff is mixed in PT). Jazz is a toss up(sometimes its more about the vibe and gaining the clients confidence). Some Jazz guys need convincing. Country(ask Dave Martin) sinve I've been back in NYC i've only mixed 2 country like projects in the last 5 years and that was mixed on a analog console. Industrial/Jingles/voice overs all PT.

Basically your clientele will be the biggest determining factor, because in the end through their bookings you will be paying for it.

I think with the Daking my biggest questions would be: 5 years from now I want to upgrade can I ...a)sell it? b)expand it? c)how much will it depreciate?d)in those five years did I get my $25K worth?
Thrill I think I'm back to your original recommendation
I'll wait to make the leap until I've got more Protools mixing chops and a better paying clientele. I don't know how you guys at the top decide what to buy
Kinda hard to see where the industry is going.
Just for fun I'm going to remix some of my stuff on a mackie vlz1402, just sending some submixes through it just to see how it sounds. I wonder how different this mix would sound compared to a D2buss, or a boutique audio?
I have a Paris audio card in the same mac as HD, the other nite I mixed a HD mix(internally) back to 2 tracks on HD and then ran the same mix out of HD analog back in to the analog in of Paris, this is both HD and Paris on the Mac mac 26 tracks, and it worked fine! I have listened to both mixes on 3 different machine and I cannot hear a difference!! So I'm going use what I have for now, sending mixes or submixes to paris with maybe a SLAM or api on the submixes. Thanks again for all the help
daniel
Old 20th January 2003
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman
I guess it is a matter of taste. You eithe rlike flat one dimensional sounding mixes, or you don't. I don't.

I laos think that alot of people who say it doesn't matter are doing alot of synth and sample based stuff. Which to me makes sense, because the original source is form somehting already digitized by asampler or something else. probably originating at a 16 bit sample rate.

Quite differnt from real instruments etc.
Hench, have you tried the new HD? I think it sounds pretty good but I never worked on a mix system or a fairlight or many other digital workstations for that matter. What is it about Protools that you think makes it harder to get a great mix? Is it just that it is not analog or it's interface or the way it processes audio?
Some folks say that you can change the sound of it with better converters,clock, and mixing on an analog board.
I find this whole topic pretty confusing, as you can find pros that vouch for many systems and I try to all the time to question my way of working to see if I can improve. Don't get me wrong I got into protools because it allowed me to get into a
"pro daw standard" for $9k which for an integrated system is pretty cool. I know the last ToTo album was mixed in the box, so I'll buy that album and compare it to the last Korn album.
I wonder if the differences between all of these systems is really that big? Take care
daniel
Old 20th January 2003
  #26
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
Thrill I think I'm back to your original recommendation
I'll wait to make the leap until I've got more Protools mixing chops and a better paying clientele. I don't know how you guys at the top decide what to buy
Kinda hard to see where the industry is going.
Just for fun I'm going to remix some of my stuff on a mackie vlz1402, just sending some submixes through it just to see how it sounds. I wonder how different this mix would sound compared to a D2buss, or a boutique audio?
I have a Paris audio card in the same mac as HD, the other nite I mixed a HD mix(internally) back to 2 tracks on HD and then ran the same mix out of HD analog back in to the analog in of Paris, this is both HD and Paris on the Mac mac 26 tracks, and it worked fine! I have listened to both mixes on 3 different machine and I cannot hear a difference!! So I'm going use what I have for now, sending mixes or submixes to paris with maybe a SLAM or api on the submixes. Thanks again for all the help
daniel
Hey Daniel,

My suggestion would be since you were ready to drop $25K on something, why not order both the D2B and the SBM-2, put them through their paces, and if the spaghetti sticks(sorry old cooking term) pick one you like best or send them both back.

I know they are both very cool on this(they are both confident you will pick one). If you go with the SBM-2, you can chain up to (4) of them together(that's 64 returns) and the Boutique Audio guys can customize it with P&G faders to make it look like a console if you wish(for a price of course).

Whatever direction you go in, good luck in your search.

Ciao.
(Now back to the spaghetti...or is it linguini...whatever!!)
Old 20th January 2003
  #27
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
T
I have a Paris audio card in the same mac as HD, the other nite I mixed a HD mix(internally) back to 2 tracks on HD and then ran the same mix out of HD analog back in to the analog in of Paris, this is both HD and Paris on the Mac mac 26 tracks, and it worked fine! I have listened to both mixes on 3 different machine and I cannot hear a difference!! So I'm going use what I have for now, sending mixes or submixes to paris with maybe a SLAM or api on the submixes.
If you can't hear a difference then why are you going to the extra trouble of running it through Paris?

-R
Old 20th January 2003
  #28
Lives for gear
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman
If you can't hear a difference then why are you going to the extra trouble of running it through Paris?

-R
R, I was curious to see if the Mac could run Protools and Paris at the same time, and how Paris would sound as a mix deck, as I already have it and its paid for
My original question could have been worded more clearly, I was just wondering with all of the talk about the mix buss in protools, does each track have to be output seperately if you mix with an analog mixer. I guess this all depends if the person believes that the Protools mixer or the submixes are degraded, which I really don't know. I know as pointed out by TheThrillFactor you might want to have 32 or more outs for more seperate processing in the analog domain.
Not to stir things up, but did you ever get any responses on your testing?

daniel
Old 20th January 2003
  #29
Lives for gear
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does Ptools require direct outs to sound good?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey Daniel,

My suggestion would be since you were ready to drop $25K on something, why not order both the D2B and the SBM-2, put them through their paces, and if the spaghetti sticks(sorry old cooking term) pick one you like best or send them both back.

I know they are both very cool on this(they are both confident you will pick one). If you go with the SBM-2, you can chain up to (4) of them together(that's 64 returns) and the Boutique Audio guys can customize it with P&G faders to make it look like a console if you wish(for a price of course).

Whatever direction you go in, good luck in your search.

Ciao.
(Now back to the spaghetti...or is it linguini...whatever!!)
Thrill, It'll cost some bread but I'd like to try both the boxes against my other mix setups
Oh Yeah for me it's spaghetti,Puttaneska(sp?) peace
daniel
Old 20th January 2003
  #30
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
I guess it is a matter of taste. You eithe rlike flat one dimensional sounding mixes, or you don't. I don't.

I laos think that alot of people who say it doesn't matter are doing alot of synth and sample based stuff. Which to me makes sense, because the original source is form somehting already digitized by asampler or something else. probably originating at a 16 bit sample rate.

Quite differnt from real instruments etc.
Real instruments? Like electric guitar?

Just kidding. But - I do think its bull. I've been doing lots of pure acoustic bands lately and HD sounds great on them. Chris is right though about it taking a different technique. If Henchman was weaned on Analog - it may never work for him. I've been working in Digital since 1987 - and yes sometimes it was merely a "learning experience". But all that experience has given me an overall technique that means that I don't have to work harder to get a better sound on digital than people who have analog expectations. Maybe I suck - but you know what ? All my clients (who are fairly analog ideal-minded) have been coming to me and saying that the recent stuff coming out of the studio rules - and that's since HD.

Not meaning to pick a fight. Just holding up my side of the discussion.
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