The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
SSL... accept no substitute?
Old 13th January 2003
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

SSL... accept no substitute?

Well, the Euphonix truck is cruising the states trying to swing deals on the new Max Air board. I spent some time in the truck talking it up with the Euph rep as he was doing a demo here in Houston.

Any thoughts on the Max Air, CS-3000 or Euphonix in general or should I just let it go and stay on course for a SSL 4056G?


One thing that strikes me odd about the Max Air is that it resembles a Procontrol on steriods for twice the price. I don't even begin to get that one. Especially with no automation.


thoughts anyone?
Old 13th January 2003
  #2
Re: SSL... accept no substitute?

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
Well, the Euphonix truck is cruising the states trying to swing deals on the new Max Air board. I spent some time in the truck talking it up with the Euph rep as he was doing a demo here in Houston.

Any thoughts on the Max Air, CS-3000 or Euphonix in general or should I just let it go and stay on course for a SSL 4056G?


One thing that strikes me odd about the Max Air is that it resembles a Procontrol on steriods for twice the price. I don't even begin to get that one. Especially with no automation.


thoughts anyone?
Like I said amigo,

You want to pay your bills?

SSL.

Debt, creditors on your backs, having to figure out how you are going to pay the staff, always wondering why you made the mistake of buying one gigantic obsolete computer...

Euphonix.


Not having to make the mistakes that a lot of going out of business studios that thought they would blaze a new path in the recording industry in the back of Mix Mag...

Priceless.heh
Old 13th January 2003
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Re: Re: SSL... accept no substitute?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Like I said amigo...
Yes you did and so very well . Thanks for the reinforcement, again. My buddy here in town hammered me pretty hard although his and my purposes are very different. Ok, I feel better now.
Old 13th January 2003
  #4
Re: Re: Re: SSL... accept no substitute?

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
Yes you did and so very well . Thanks for the reinforcement, again. My buddy here in town hammered me pretty hard although his and my purposes are very different. Ok, I feel better now.

You Welcome!!!

When ever you get tempted, just look in the back of a Mix Mag at the studios being sold or going out of business(face to face with reality). Look at how many of these studios are SSL based. I will tell you right now not many. Its one of the few things in this business(I think right now PT is the other) that ultimately pays for itself.

The problem with PT is when it become obsolete it becomes a hard sell. SSL's still garner some interest, even the older ones.

Good Luck and stay the course!!!LOLheh
Old 13th January 2003
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Wasn't there something happening a while back with several studios having trouble with their SSL leases? I thought I heard something on one of the boards or maybe R.A.P. That would suggest the qualification that, for commercial concerns, SSL is a good choice if your studio can support the costs. If I were in business, I'd be a far distance from that milestone. Since you're asking, you can probably support the costs.

Bear
Old 14th January 2003
  #6
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Get a precise handle on your potential monthly lease payments that you have to cover.

YMMV big time, but my experience has been that my monthly console lease payments are equal to the price of the desk divided by about 40-50, after a 10% down payment to get started. Depends of course on the interest rate and the number of years of the lease period.

Oh, and what thrill said.
Old 14th January 2003
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

The other thing that you should consider is that good and recognizable brands in the studio buy confidence with punters. Yes it's the engineer's chops that REALLY matters, however like it or not you have to market yourself in this competitive game.

SSL is tried and proven just like PT despite what people may say about them.


Cheers,
Old 14th January 2003
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
Renting the room to outside engineers?

Looking for any 'studio interchangability' on projects already in progress?

Need to establish some early(even unwarranted) credibility?

SSL.

100%

Add Studer to taste.

Garnish with ProTools and serve.

SM.

You're a riot!
Old 14th January 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
cajonezzz's Avatar
 

Not that we're anywhere near the ballbark to warrant an SSL.....If a guy was going to start looking into the aquisition of an SSL desk, where would he start?
Let's say in a year or so our now smallish room gets rocking...and we want to "move up" attract outside engineers.

Assuming the monitoring,outboard, and other stuff is in place,
which model would be viable assuming the newest models are out of reach?
Old 14th January 2003
  #10
Quote:
Originally posted by cajonezzz
Not that we're anywhere near the ballbark to warrant an SSL.....If a guy was going to start looking into the aquisition of an SSL desk, where would he start?
Let's say in a year or so our now smallish room gets rocking...and we want to "move up" attract outside engineers.

Assuming the monitoring,outboard, and other stuff is in place,
which model would be viable assuming the newest models are out of reach?
When you are talking ballpark, what are you talking about?

Also how big is this smallish room?

Is your facility going to be mainly a tracking/production place or would you like to do mixing as well?

Also where is your location?

Do you have the necessary airflow to house the minframe plus computer(very noisy by the way)?

Also you have to include brand new wiring, install and if you are running PT more analog outputs(prefer 48 but 32 is minimum).

If you haven't passed out by now, than there are lots of good alternatives.heh

The ideal would be some kind of lease for either a 9000J(used) or a 4000G+(new). I think it will probably be about the same price wise. A step down(about a $100K step) would be some kind of 4000E/G or G+ computer. I don't think I would look at a 6000(unless it came out of Larabeee).

If you want guys to come(and I know competition out there in CA is fierce) you will need minimum 64 channels. Maybe you can get away with a 48 with some kind of sidecar(a 12 channel SSL side car by the way is around $24K through Peter Duncan).

If you want to be really Boutique, Peter Duncan does a 12 channel side car(access to both channel and monitor inputs) with meters,6 auxes,3stereo bus returns,headphone amplifier,fader subgroup.master fader for around $28K.

Hey you can still advertise that you have an SSL...albeit only 12 channels.

Hey but who has to know.heh
Old 14th January 2003
  #11
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
Just curious, but where do the Neve VR's fit in this situation. Given the choice which would be preferrable, a 48 channel Neve VR or a 48 channel SSL G+.
Old 15th January 2003
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Jack the Bear's Avatar
 

Two different beasts here David,

The VR is warmer in comparison to the SSL and personally I prefer the VR over the other SSLs here, but the K-series SSL is in a league of it's own. It blows the doors off the other SSLs here. I haven't actually heard a 9000J, but they aren't exactly chopped liver

Here people prefer to track with the VR and mix with the SSL.

Cheers,

Tony Mantz.
Old 15th January 2003
  #13
Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
Just curious, but where do the Neve VR's fit in this situation. Given the choice which would be preferrable, a 48 channel Neve VR or a 48 channel SSL G+.
I always liked the VR(especially for mixing RnB and dance music).

It is a electronic nightmare(too much capacitors in the channels). Also they are famous for a low/mid bass bump. Once you get used to it though like anything you work around it. Sonically it has a sound(nothing like the older Neve's), but it has its own character.

Which is preferable?

There are alot of variables in this question. Where is your location?(Is it a SSL town mostly?) Also will a lot of freelancers be using your place or will it be a private/production facility? There is also the maintanance for a VR(much more than an SSL and it also runs much hotter).

A G+ is a much newer console(with all the bells and whistles) and it also has the name. Just about everyone has worked on one at least once(if you haven't than you were probably born in the last decade...the"digital decade").

I would say even though the VR has the Neve name it will not get you as far business wise as an SSL.

And at the end of the day, that is what it comes down to...the bottomn line.
Old 15th January 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
I was just curious as to how the two stacked up as far as client draw. I have limited experience with both, so I was posing the questions for my own knowledge. Thanks for the answers!
Old 15th January 2003
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor

The ideal would be some kind of lease for either a 9000J(used) or a 4000G+(new)...

hmmmm, veddy interesting <sporting a yellow raincoat>
Old 15th January 2003
  #16
Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
hmmmm, veddy interesting <sporting a yellow raincoat>
If you are considering a 9000J, maybe give Peter Duncan a shout(www.peterduncan.com).

By the way, how many 9000J studios are there in Texas?

If there aren't any, than it might be worth a shot.

Food for thought.
Old 15th January 2003
  #17
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
By the way, how many 9000J studios are there in Texas?

If there aren't any, than it might be worth a shot.

Food for thought.
\


Just did a search on the SolidStateLogic database under 9000J studios in Texas. Guess how many?

None.

I think you might have found your niche, if you decide to do it.

Hmmm....

The story is starting to get interesting.
Old 15th January 2003
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Thrill,

Thanks Dude! I just emailed Peter and will see what happens. It sure seems like he is killing everyone on price. I wonder how. And, I wonder how the almighty buck will interact with our good friend, the pound.

We'll see.....yuktyy
Old 15th January 2003
  #19
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
As of today:

180,000.00 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds = 288,773.91 USD United States $

Plus the cost of the boat it will come in on
heh

Good luck man!!
Old 15th January 2003
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
As of today:

180,000.00 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds = 288,773.91 USD United States $

Plus the cost of the boat it will come in on
heh

Good luck man!!



"ALMIGHTY BUCK"



On a good note, I talked to PAD and leasing could be the ticket. I also checked nationwide on SSL for 9000J's and the closet seemed to be Nashville..... that's a long ways. Not even 1 in the hotspot refered to as Austin.
Old 16th January 2003
  #21
Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
[IMG]http://smilies.networkessence.net/s/cwm/cwm/eek2.gif

On a good note, I talked to PAD and leasing could be the ticket. I also checked nationwide on SSL for 9000J's and the closet seemed to be Nashville..... that's a long ways. Not even 1 in the hotspot refered to as Austin.
Maybe its not such a bad idea afterall.

Not only could you possibly bring in some of southern/midwest market, but also some of the Central America/South American Spanish market.

Tex Mex music is really popular in the Spanish market right now. A lot of those guys either mix in Miami or CA. If you give these people an alternative(closer to home)than maybe you can start building a following.

I know Texas isn't Miami(some of the most beautiful/exotic women in America live in Miami)heh

But I am sure you can offer some benefits(free open Barbecue maybe?).

Hey its worth considering.

Its not a cheap/easy decision though, but nothing that's ever worth it really is.
Old 16th January 2003
  #22
Gear Head
 
TXDigi's Avatar
 

Texas 900j's

The correct answer is 1 not none. We'll atleast starting next week.

www.luminoussound.com

its not used.... its pre-owned

This thread basically answers the why question. The 9000j attracts the clients that can actually pay their bills. It wont be antiquated in 5 or 10 maybe even 20 years. But I guarantee you the value of my HD4 Procontrol system in 5 years will be 10% of what i paid for it.

We replaced our SSL6k with a 9k. Would anyone like to guess how much it depriciated in value???? about 5%

as far as the differnce in the j and k 9000's Surround panning and computer mostly. It isn't night and day difference sonically but the Hit Factory's of the world have to keep there edge.


[email protected]
Old 16th January 2003
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

TXDIGI,

Congrats on the new gear. You truly belong here. I visited your site and your facility is really nice. I'm sure getting business is a non issue for you guys. Heck, I would come just to drool.
Old 16th January 2003
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
...Its not a cheap/easy decision though, but nothing that's ever worth it really is.
So true!
Old 24th January 2003
  #25
Here for the gear
 

Congratulations, TX DIGI on the new board!
Can't wait to come see it!!!!!
Old 19th February 2003
  #26
Gear Addict
 
Bernd G's Avatar
 

We replaced our SSL6k with a 9k. Would anyone like to guess how much it depriciated in value???? about 5%

Hey TXDIGI,
I can't believe your SSL6K only depreciated by 5 %. We are in the process of buying a 4056 G/G+ for $ 75,000. That was a very expensive board ten years ago. Did you mean 5% per year ? Or did you do an SSL trade-in (in which case the depreciation is absorbed by the high price of a new console). Just curious.
Cheers
BG
Old 19th February 2003
  #27
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Re: Texas 900j's

Quote:
Originally posted by TXDigi
We replaced our SSL6k with a 9k. Would anyone like to guess how much it depriciated in value???? about 5%

most fascinating indeed ... hmmmm .... the complete story please ? did you buy the 6 k new and did you sell it 5% less then you originally bought it ?? or do I read that wrong ?

As unlikely as that seems I would dare to say that if that's true .... you did the deal of the century. I've known a 9k owner selling his to pay for open debts for little over 60% of the original value and I remember him saying that he was EXTREMELY lucky to have found someone for it for that price .... the desk was about 15 months old.
Old 19th February 2003
  #28
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Both stories sound a bit extreme to me.

For an earlier 9000J, 25% to 35% off the new price for the territory in question would be about right...with a warranty, installation, and after-sales service for a certain period. Cheaper if through a broker.

Much depends on the desk's condition...upkeep, maintenance, switch and fader replacements, etc...and how fast the owner needs/wants to sell.

I could likely trade our pre-owned J desk in after 2 years of owning it for 85-90% of what I paid for it, if buying a new one. That's pretty much fair depreciation for something that has a useful working life of at least 15 years.
Old 19th February 2003
  #29
Gear Head
 
TXDigi's Avatar
 

the 6k was purchased used and sold used. We took immacualte care of it and even did some refinshes of trim and other little stuff. I havent seen too many 6k's that wer in that bad of shape when we bought it. We spent a long time cleaning and repairing.

And yes it probably was the 6k deal of the century but it happened.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump