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New LA Studio, what do you think
Old 31st December 2002
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

New LA Studio, what do you think

Firehouse StudioFirehouse Studios

Well, what do you think? Can enough outboard gear, a good room (I'm guessing it is) and 48 channels of procontrol make up for a lack of a console?

For a more in depth walkthrough visit www.digitalprosound.com and see the article near the bottom right.

I'm not trying to pick a fight but just looking for thoughts and impressions from others?

So... what are yours?
Old 31st December 2002
  #2
Gear Head
 
lhaile's Avatar
 

I can't say, since I live in Dallas, but the web site is very impressive....bump.
Old 31st December 2002
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
RaGe's Avatar
 

Wow! Drool drool drool ...
Gotta go get some lottery tix ... later!
Old 31st December 2002
  #4
Moderator emeritus
 

I've been in that room - It gives good vibe for corporate (read advertising) clients, but I have to say that I felt no desire to actually want to record music there...
Old 31st December 2002
  #5
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Looks like someone had lots of money to burn. Either there's or someone else's. Personally I found the website to be a piece of shit. Yeah, it looks cool but it's slower then fuck and I couldn't easily scroll on the equipment list. Why do people always want to use Flash but then not have a regular HTML site?

As for the studio I'm not too impressed. There are a whole bunch of places like it already. If it had a cool vibe then it might be different but it seems a bit cold. And yes, I do need a console.
Old 31st December 2002
  #6
Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
Firehouse StudioFirehouse Studios

Well, what do you think? Can enough outboard gear, a good room (I'm guessing it is) and 48 channels of procontrol make up for a lack of a console?

For a more in depth walkthrough visit www.digitalprosound.com and see the article near the bottom right.

I'm not trying to pick a fight but just looking for thoughts and impressions from others?

So... what are yours?

How much do you think the Pro Control and its fader packs will be worth when the new Pro Control surface(rumored to look like a big console) comes out?

Try selling that on Ebay or the DUC.heh

As compared to a 9000J and the new K?

Right now if you can make enough money every 3-5 years to afford the turnover ratio in the whole digital market, than I would suggest its not a bad business investment. Make as much as you can now, put some of it away(good luck) and ride it out. Hope for the best. Sure there are certain clients that won't mix in your place, but I am sure that a lot of those clients will not mind tracking/producing their tracks there. Look at the Miami studio market, its flooded with PT studios(tons!!!), but any chance I get to zip down there to track vocals I take it!!!(Here i come South Beach!!!)heh

I think nowadays for a new place to have some kind of monetary successs($$$$$) you have to take this approach...its either SSL with all the goodies(totally setup right from the ground up) or PT with all the extras.

What will happen if something else steps up and takes PT's place as the defacto standard? You will be stuck with something that you paid almost $75,000 for which quickly has become obsolete(can I say Sony 3348HR).

Food for thought.

Happy New Year!!!
Old 31st December 2002
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
RaGe's Avatar
 

It's not much the PT system (happy Nuendo user here) that impresses me but the studios 'design and the thoughts behind it (after reading the story @ Digital Pro sound).
And the piano ... wow!
Nevertheless I can understand the need for a "warmer" space to work in.
Peace.
Old 1st January 2003
  #8
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Re: Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
How much do you think the Pro Control and its fader packs will be worth when the new Pro Control surface(rumored to look like a big console) comes out?

Try selling that on Ebay or the DUC.

I think nowadays for a new place to have some kind of monetary successs($$$$$) you have to take this approach...its either SSL with all the goodies(totally setup right from the ground up) or PT with all the extras.

What will happen if something else steps up and takes PT's place as the defacto standard? You will be stuck with something that you paid almost $75,000 for which quickly has become obsolete(can I say Sony 3348HR).

Food for thought.

Happy New Year!!!
Totally. All good points. My stuff had pretty much lost all it's value by the time I bought it and is holding still, not going down much more so it can only go up right???. That allows me to make money and not worry about having the latest & greatest. They don't call it the bleeding edge for nothing. Fuck, I know a guy on here who bought a pair of Sony 3324S's for $500 each. How's that for losing value? And they can't possibly be more then 6 or 7 years old. Damn, the tape costs almost as much as he paid for the decks.

Have a happy.
Old 1st January 2003
  #9
Gear Addict
 

Hell, if I were a low to mid level PT room, I might wait for that new controller to come out and swoop down on the Pro Control for dimes on the dollar used. If it is useful now, it wil continue to be so. Aren't a bunch of those old digital reel decks loaded with Apogee converters? Even at 16 bits, they'll probably be a much better solution than ADAT's if you can keep them in tape and service. Obsolescence is a godsend for the cheapskate.

Bear
Old 2nd January 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by RSMITH123
Firehouse StudioFirehouse Studios

Well, what do you think? Can enough outboard gear, a good room (I'm guessing it is) and 48 channels of procontrol make up for a lack of a console?

kthtyrt
I don't know what their rate is, but if I'm going to spend big-studio bucks I want a console. That being said, I've been to the Firehouse and feel that you could do a good session there, depending on your needs, and if you know how to mix on a ProControl. There are a couple of large racks of Brent Averill 1073's for your tracking needs and the Bosendorfer is certainly a nice piano. The main tracking room seems a bit live and a bit cold, but in all fairness it's a new studio and is maybe just in need of some spilled beer, a big throw rug and a few potted plants. The control room monitors are large Meyers, I believe, and sound very dry and neutral. 5.1 is soffitted in.

The studio itself is, I think, new construction, but the rest of the plant is housed in this old restored firehouse, with sandblasted open ceilings, doug fir woodwork, etc. The studio is a subsidiary of Disc Marketing, which performs a number of services, one of which is to provide the in-the-air music programming for certain airlines (you know, the stuff that comes through the tubes into your ears). As an interesting aside, it turns out that they also program the music for Airforce One. Apparently when Bush took over for Clinton, they went in and took off all the classic soul music and replaced it with country music and, . . . . show tunes. Argh!

-R
Old 3rd January 2003
  #11
Moderator emeritus
 

Re: Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman
There are a couple of large racks of Brent Averill 1073's for your tracking needs and the Bosendorfer is certainly a nice piano.
-R
Rick, I thought that the Bosendorfer in the tracking room when I was there was actually a 7 foot grand. That kind of negates the whole point of a Bosendorfer, doesn't it? The studio manager was telling us that they were about to get a new piano - either one owned by Frank Sinatra' or a piano that was owned by some songwriter who had gotten a lot of Sinatra cuts, or an arranger that Sinatra used - something like that, but I dunno about a 7 foot Bosendorfer - I'd want the other 3 feet.
Old 3rd January 2003
  #12
As a ProControl owner I dont see the point of so many fader packs.... 16 or 24 faders sure... but no more.. just bank through and always be sitting in the sweet spot!



Neo classical 'shark gonna eat you' looped music on the website agitated me from the get go...

Doesnt seem pitched at the rock crowd...

good luck to them!

Old 3rd January 2003
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules



Neo classical 'shark gonna eat you' looped music on the website agitated me from the get go...

Now that's funny. Yeah I think there are several things that kinda speak overtly " We don't do Rock records here".
Old 3rd January 2003
  #14
Gear Addict
 
Curious G's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Doesnt seem pitched at the rock crowd...
Looks like a corporate room to me... Ad guy heaven (and non-threatening to their clientalia). No copy writer wants a bunch of gold records on the wall to remind them that the most creative decision they'll make this year is the color of their new minivan. They build the vibe out of these rooms on purpose, just like a Holiday Inn... most corporate guys would look at a funky/vibey music studio and run screaming like it was a crack house.
Old 3rd January 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
Rick, I thought that the Bosendorfer in the tracking room when I was there was actually a 7 foot grand. That kind of negates the whole point of a Bosendorfer, doesn't it? The studio manager was telling us that they were about to get a new piano - either one owned by Frank Sinatra' or a piano that was owned by some songwriter who had gotten a lot of Sinatra cuts, or an arranger that Sinatra used - something like that, but I dunno about a 7 foot Bosendorfer - I'd want the other 3 feet.
I don't know, it sounded really nice. I forget how long it was. Personally, in my somewhat limited experience, I've always preferred the 9 ft Yamahas to the 10 ft Bo's, mostly because at that price point Yamaha actually gets the action right. For most purposes I think7 feet is long enough to get a decent bass response.

-R
Old 4th January 2003
  #16
Moderator emeritus
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman
I don't know, it sounded really nice. I forget how long it was. Personally, in my somewhat limited experience, I've always preferred the 9 ft Yamahas to the 10 ft Bo's, mostly because at that price point Yamaha actually gets the action right. For most purposes I think7 feet is long enough to get a decent bass response.

-R
I bow to your expertise, especially since you're a keyboard player and I'm not. But I know that part of the thing (for piano players) about Bosendorfers are those low notes that aren't on normal pianos. The only time I performed with a Bosendorfer was in a recital hall in Tokyo, and I remembered how stinkin' LONG the thing was (I also remember that the sound company miked it with one SM-57 - I have pictures). SO with that picture in my head, the piano at Firehouse looked really dinky; I was surprised to read that it was 7 feet - for some reason I thought it was around 5 feet.
Old 4th January 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
I bow to your expertise, especially since you're a keyboard player and I'm not. But I know that part of the thing (for piano players) about Bosendorfers are those low notes that aren't on normal pianos.
Oh, you're talking about the 10 feet WIDE Bosendorfers <g>

Actually, they have 2 or 3 extra low notes, right? You're gonna have to ask yourself if its worth another 80 grand (wild guess) to have those notes represented by strings longer than 7 feet.

BTW, I'm working on a new compact piano design. It has one key and a knob to determine which note it sounds. You can slave up to 16 of them together to play chords. Waddya think?

-R
Old 4th January 2003
  #18
Moderator emeritus
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New LA Studio, what do you think

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman
Oh, you're talking about the 10 feet WIDE Bosendorfers <g>

Actually, they have 2 or 3 extra low notes, right? You're gonna have to ask yourself if its worth another 80 grand (wild guess) to have those notes represented by strings longer than 7 feet.

BTW, I'm working on a new compact piano design. It has one key and a knob to determine which note it sounds. You can slave up to 16 of them together to play chords. Waddya think?

-R
Oh, the one note piano works fine for me, as long as it doesn't have MIDI in it - I've heard some bad things about that stuff...

I think that they told me that the Bosendorfer in Tokyo was $110,000. I'd have to play those bottom notes a LOT to make it worth that.
Old 4th January 2003
  #19
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Curious G
Looks like a corporate room to me... Ad guy heaven (and non-threatening to their clientalia). No copy writer wants a bunch of gold records on the wall to remind them that the most creative decision they'll make this year is the color of their new minivan. They build the vibe out of these rooms on purpose, just like a Holiday Inn... most corporate guys would look at a funky/vibey music studio and run screaming like it was a crack house.
Ha! Maybe that's why I don't get a lot of corporate work. Ah well, the rock bands are more fun anyway.
Old 4th January 2003
  #20
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As a side note on the Yamaha pianos, the few 9' I have played and/or recorded actually "had" nicer bottom end than the 7' ones. (Although there were a few otherwise REALLY nice pianos in those 7'.)
As far as pianos are concerned though, my milage generally varies quite a bit...
Old 4th January 2003
  #21
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by groundcontrol
As a side note on the Yamaha pianos, the few 9' I have played and/or recorded actually "had" nicer bottom end than the 7' ones. (Although there were a few otherwise REALLY nice pianos in those 7'.)
As far as pianos are concerned though, my milage generally varies quite a bit...
But isn't the price difference between the 7' and 9' Yamaha's about $10,000 a foot?
Old 6th January 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin
But isn't the price difference between the 7' and 9' Yamaha's about $10,000 a foot?
Probably closer to $30,000

-R
Old 6th January 2003
  #23
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

I really love the sound of our Yamaha C7, when tuned by the right guy. Awesome pop/rock piano. No two sound alike, but we got lucky with this one.

BTW you guys are talking outrageous figures for pianos. The one we have cost less than $15k...in perfect shape.
Old 7th January 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by jon
I really love the sound of our Yamaha C7, when tuned by the right guy. Awesome pop/rock piano. No two sound alike, but we got lucky with this one.

BTW you guys are talking outrageous figures for pianos. The one we have cost less than $15k...in perfect shape.
I got my C7 for 10 k and put another grand (no pun intended) into it and it sounds pretty good. New they're pushing 30 k, and I think the 9 footers are getting up towards 100 k which was the source of my comment to Dave.

Yes they're all different, and it's rare that the great pop/rock piano is also perfect for classical or jazz. At Capitol Studios here in L.A. they actually lacquer the hammers for a brighter sound (an all-too-common practice, here anyway.)

-R
Old 7th January 2003
  #25
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman

Yes they're all different, and it's rare that the great pop/rock piano is also perfect for classical or jazz.
-R
And that's kind of a bummer - I'll be doing an album of standards (I hope) within a month. I'm torn between trying to either buy (or rent) a piano and use my place, or going elsewhere. But since the plan is to record the whole rhythm section (with as many keeper vocals as possible) at the same time, I hate to rent another room in town for 4 or 5 days when I've got a perfectly good one here.

If I buy a piano, though, I'll have to have one that works with all kinds of music - If I rent, though (or lease), then I can look for one that would be a fine jazz piano, I guess. Any ideas?
Old 7th January 2003
  #26
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman
I got my C7 for 10 k and put another grand (no pun intended) into it and it sounds pretty good. New they're pushing 30 k, and I think the 9 footers are getting up towards 100 k which was the source of my comment to Dave.
Great to hear about your C7.

Wow, those new prices are something. What's a Steinway B up to nowadays?

What are typical daily rental rates for pianos in LA nowadays? I charge $250 per day, tuned, at my place. Sometimes though on a nice project, you throw in the piano for free if they pay for the tuning.
Old 7th January 2003
  #27
Moderator emeritus
 

jon, do you have a piano that belongs to the studio, or do you have to hire one in? Though a lot of studios here (though not all)will charge for a tuning, I haven't hard of any in Nashville that charge for the piano itself.
Old 7th January 2003
  #28
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Me neither!
Old 7th January 2003
  #29
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by jon

What are typical daily rental rates for pianos in LA nowadays? I charge $250 per day, tuned, at my place. Sometimes though on a nice project, you throw in the piano for free if they pay for the tuning.
There's never an extra charge for the piano. A tuning might cost 90 bucks or so.

-R
Old 7th January 2003
  #30
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Martin

If I buy a piano, though, I'll have to have one that works with all kinds of music - If I rent, though (or lease), then I can look for one that would be a fine jazz piano, I guess. Any ideas?
I think the Yamaha C7s are justifiably popular because they can somewhat cover all of the bases. But in my experience, the perfect rock n roll pianos are really too bright and plinky for trad jazz, and especially classical. But for some reason, the 9 foot concert grands (or whatever they're called) really seem to have it all. I played Elton John's 9 ft Yamaha at Air Lindhurst one night and felt you could have done anything with this piano. (and it was sitting right next to his huge Bosendorfer, which was a dog by comparison). OTOH, Sound City, in Van Nuys, has a 9 ft Steinway that has been featured on Dr. John records from the 70's (Iko, Iko, etc.), and is still the penultimate rock n roll piano, but forget about playing a ballad on it. Sounds like a glorified clavinet.

Pianos are like women. Find one with soul and depth and love her no matter what.

But to answer your question, Dave, I'd look for a used C7 that hasn't had its hammer lacquered.

-R
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