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oVERHEADS,Do you compress? What pres?
Old 10th May 2004
  #61
Gear Maniac
 

Hi end user - Can you post some audio file ?

Hello,

Reading the whole thread make me quite jealous !
Lot of great gears used over here.
I don't use as Hi end gear as most of you.

Can some of you can post flat/raw drum take with description ? (no mp3, uneq'ed or comped, just as after the rec) Well, if you have some mixed drums submix, it wouldn't hurt too...

I'm eager to hear YOUR take, YOUR gears and YOUR rooms.
It would be nice for me to compare it to my rather cheap (in comparison) setup. For my part i will manage to upload one of my drum take.

For all of us, that will enlight some new perspective !

Thanks,

Salvator
Old 11th May 2004
  #62
Gear Maniac
 
title's Avatar
 

DRUMS, SIMPLE

FOCUSRITE ISA 428 (4 channel)
had great results with this pre!

CH 1- MD 421 (vintage)> insert DISTRESSOR =kick

CH 2- SM 57 > Insert DISTRESSOR = Snare (underneath snare)

CH 3- NMN KM184 > Insert VARI-MU= Ohead L

CH 4- NMN KM184 > Insert VARI-MU= Ohead R
Old 12th May 2004
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Hey Jules . . haven't been here in a bit . . good to see you. Good to see youare still enjoying your Royer.

Funny thing, I have since changed my tune on the Royer for OH mics. Went back to KM84s as the Royer began to sound dull and a too 'roomy' for my taste. Being the figure eight pattern that they are. (And I have high ceilings). A couple of times I put a piece of sonex a foot or two above them and got a more direct sound, but then . . what's the point? I use Neve or API for pres and 'possibly' a bit of Tube Tech stereo compression.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Royer SF12 stereo ribbon

+

Chiswick Reach valve 'Early Bird" mic pre's

+

No EQ

+

SSL compressor (mostly unused these days) depending on the room...

Note: For a 3 mic "Who" / Glyn Johns 1960's technique - I use Helios pre's on the 2 overheads..
Old 12th May 2004
  #64
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox


Funny thing, I have since changed my tune on the Royer for OH mics. Went back to KM84s as the Royer began to sound dull and a too 'roomy' for my taste.

I have similar results with ribbons in general on OH, they just don't sound 'right' to me. A quality condenser does. I've noticed a lot of people stating that ribbons are a cure for digititus, but I think cheap condensers or low quality ADC's may be to blame just as much or more for it.
Old 12th May 2004
  #65
Gear Nut
 
kraftrourke's Avatar
 

i record mostly low budget local bands at my house. ive been buying up cymbals left and right lately. mostly K customs and constantinoples. every cymbal is different even in the same model lines. if i find a gem at the store i have to get it...

the night before a session ill have the drummer come over my house and play my drums or set up his. he picks out the cymbals he likes if hes not in love with his own. i mic up the set the next morning before anyone arrives. ill have them play a little and record it. if one of the cymbals sounds a little weird or stupid or doesnt fit with the rest of the bands sounds we can just throw one of my 20 others up in place. like everything else the cymbals sound different with other sounds going on.

its the coolest thing to have extra cymbals!

for anyone working with lower budget bands. get some really nice cymbals for yourself. its hard to make shitty cymbals sound good even with expensive mics and pres.

i have 184s and 451s with tube-tech mec1a pres at home for OHs. i almost always put them in XY. theres always some fishy phasing going on with some piece of the kit when i try spaced pairs. could be my small room.

last week tracking drums at a real studio i complimented the 451 XY pair with neuman m149s as close mics on the left and right crashes. mixed in just a little brought out some body and impact in the crashes that can get lost with lots of drum compression and layers of guitars.
Old 13th May 2004
  #66
Lives for gear
 
JonCraig's Avatar
 

got a real rockin' sound this weekend with d112 in kick, sm81 underneath the snare, mkh40's as overheads, tlm 170s in omni as room mics. distressed the 170s (all hail the nuke), quick attack and release. sounds great.
Old 13th May 2004
  #67
Deleted 2ef94c5
Guest
Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred
I've noticed a lot of people stating that ribbons are a cure for digititus, but I think cheap condensers or low quality ADC's may be to blame just as much or more for it.
We use decent converters here (Digi 192, Cranesong Spider and Manley SLAM all clocked off Big Ben), currently using Sabian cymbals which were selected for their darker, shorter decay attributes, and if I use anything but a ribbon mic, I get cymbals that sound like they belong in a heavy-metal or pop album, and not anything deserving to be in an indie-rock/post-rock kind of production which is what we mostly do. So Nathan, before you go blaming the user or their gear when opinions counter those of your own, I suggest you remember that music is very situational, as we attempt to find sounds that are best suited for the song at hand.

Another reason for using ribbons as overheads is that all of our mixes pass through a Massive Passive high-shelf stage which helps establish that commercial 'sheen', so having the cymbals sound smooth and somewhat dull on the way into the Massive allows the high shelf to work evenly across all instruments in the mix. The cymbals do not sound dull coming out of the Massive, and more importantly, they do not sound harsh in relation to the other elements. Finding that balance is the key IMO.
Old 14th May 2004
  #68
Gear Maniac
 

how important is it to have matching overheads? i've only got 2 decent condensers (at4050 and sm94) the only thing i could have a pair with would be my sm57's or 58s)
Old 14th May 2004
  #69
Lives for gear
 
JonCraig's Avatar
 

matched pairs for stereo mic'ing ensures that you will have even coloration across the stereo image. suppose you had a mic on the hi-hat side of the kit with excellent hi-end response, but lacking in lows, while your mic on the ride side of the kit was the opposite--hyped lows and no hi end. the hat would sound sizzly in one speaker, and dull in the other (in addition to the stereo differences). the snare would sound different in each speaker. conversely, a tom fill may start out thin, and as it moves across the stereo image, it may get bigger. that could be cool. basically, if i were you, i'd try it both ways, and see which one matches your drummer/room/that day best. or you may try doing a mono drum kit, with a single overhead and a room mic. plenty of underground records have been done that way, with much rock to be had from them. *and*, plenty of records have been done with nothing but a couple of 57's and whatever else was laying around. experiment--it's fun.
Old 14th May 2004
  #70
I rarely compress, because I use so much drum bus compression at mixdown, I like the option open...

Best pres are perhaps my Helios vintage
My Royer SF12 ribbon works best with my Thermonic Culture pre's
Old 14th May 2004
  #71
LTA
Gear Addict
 
LTA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by JonCraig
basically, if i were you, i'd try it both ways, and see which one matches your drummer/room/that day best. or you may try doing a mono drum kit, with a single overhead and a room mic. plenty of underground records have been done that way, with much rock to be had from them. *and*, plenty of records have been done with nothing but a couple of 57's and whatever else was laying around. experiment--it's fun.
Did you ever listen to the drums from the soundtrack for "Underworld?" So very cool. Then you read Josh Freese's interview in Drum! Magazine concerning all the big budget studio gear required to do it. The drum sound caught my ear first time i saw the movie. Not pristine for sure, but definitely with attitude.

http://www.daddario.com/ubb//Forum2/HTML/018052.html

There is only one paragraph concerning the compression of an "overhead," but i do recommend reading the whole article. Heck, if you read the article, read the comments too. If only every engineer (and musician) had his attitude....
Old 14th May 2004
  #72
Lives for gear
Helios Olympic pres
2 x C12B

Sweet and open sounding
Old 15th May 2004
  #73
Lives for gear
 

OH

I usually track OH with Oktava ML52 ribbons or AKG 414 BULS through Manley dual mono block or Drawmer 1969. I find the Avalon 747sp does a lot of good things to OH tracks at mixdown.
Old 27th April 2016
  #74
Gear Nut
 

How are the logos?
I would like to get a pair for overheads. I hear they're fantastic?

Know of a good contact to get a matched pair from?

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by De chromium cob View Post
LOMO 19a19s into Neve 1073s -No compression (usually)
Old 27th April 2016
  #75
Gear Maniac
 

Siemens sm204/03 drummers head plus close Km5x card all pointing at snare into wsw tube mixer 3-1 into cl1b and then a pair of km84 into 1066s into 33609 just for color
Old 27th April 2016
  #76
Lives for gear
 
Midnight Oil Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogmanash View Post
How are the logos?
I would like to get a pair for overheads. I hear they're fantastic?

Know of a good contact to get a matched pair from?

Cheers
12 year old thread, so you may want to check the persons profile that you're asking for the last post date. They may not even hang around here any more.
Old 30th April 2016
  #77
Gear Addict
 
jono's Avatar
 

Lucas CS-1's into board pre's (Custom 75) board's 2254.

Sometimes KM56's but generally the CS-1's.
Old 30th April 2016
  #78
For metal, I smash the guts outta them until they are just before pumping. other stuff, it really depends on how they were played. I use the Avedis ma5s or the buzz MA2.2 for OHs in tracking.
Old 5th May 2016
  #79
Lives for gear
 
druhms's Avatar
I admit it, I didn't read the first page of this post. I barely skimmed through the responses. Hopefully my generic answer will apply....

Tracking OH's is usually a spaced pair of condensers through John Hardy pre's or D.W. Fearn Pre's. No eq. No compression to tape. Check phase with every other mic in room. I favor the phase alignment with the snare rather than kick drum. I think that's essential to keep the snare hard and not hollow. Kicks are easier to manipulate for consistent "natural sounding" results.
I have been using SDC's for years in the close OH position. I consciously started using SDC's due to their forgiving off axis response. I was proud of that decision until recently. I have picked up a fine pair of C12 copies. Now I'm all hyped up on LDC's on close OH"s. So, experiment.
Mic placement is key as well as knowing your room. There's a good little vid on YouTube with G. Massenburg micing a kit. He makes some good points.
Good luck!
JJ
Boogie Tracks Recording Studio Boogie Tracks
Old 5th May 2016
  #80
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

OH usually 414 or some ribbon,KM83 omni's multed into 1178..

Run the real up alongside the mult for transients and the Urei for body and smash !

Bang!!
Wiggy
Old 5th May 2016
  #81
C414XLS II
API 212L
was using a pair of Hairball REV D 1176 units, but took them off and liked it better with no squish..
Old 5th May 2016
  #82
Gear Addict
 
chrisjones's Avatar
 

For me... AKG 414 EB or even the newer B-ULS works fine, 451 EB, KM84, even the cheap Oktava MK012 works great!

Preamp choice is often API, but kinda like a 1073ish preamp like BAE sometimes. Just tried a pair of V78 on overheads, they really smooths out the high end and flattens the snare transient in a pleasant way. Really cool.

I really like the Focusrite Red 3(unlinked) on overheads. 1176 is cool too. Usually just compressing -3dB off the snare hits.
Old 6th May 2016
  #83
Lives for gear
 
druhms's Avatar
When mixing, I'll compress the OH's with an ADL 1500. Just bumping off about 3 db or so. I find the ADL can take out some of the "brashy" character of some cymbals. Plus it works nicely with the snare.
JJ
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