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Telefunken Elam 251E Mic
Old 5th June 2008
  #1
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tone delux's Avatar
 

Telefunken Elam 251E Mic

Here's a nice telefunken elam 251E mic.
originally sold to long view farm by mercenary audio.
I wonder if this is fletcher's prized 251E. anyways. it's a nice find.
i just thought some of you might like to see it.

Telefunken Ela M 251E-Vintage Tube Recording Microphone - eBay (item 150255663855 end time Jun-15-08 08:54:11 PDT)
Old 6th June 2008
  #2
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tone delux's Avatar
 

good to know.
Old 7th June 2008
  #3
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jjblair's Avatar
Easy to fix, too. The plastic parts Tele-USA makes are first rate, and a freaking godsend. In the respect of having replacement parts, they are the best thing to ever happen to the 251. They just need a tech over there who really knows what he doing and has great ears, and they'd be set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tone delux View Post
good to know.
Old 19th June 2008
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

enough already.....

JJ Blair has made some rather derogatory technical comments about the Telefunken usa reissue of the Elam 251, on his blog , which has been referenced on the gearslutz forum. He references two particular microphones as his source of information. , As well, he has cast some rather general dispersions about the company and also refers to “misleading information and specifications”from the Telefunkenusa website.. The avid gearslutz participants seem to revel in his observations, and add many of their own , mostly unfounded opinions to his innuendos.

I would like to add my own information as well as express my own opinion of the claims and observations about the current Telefunken company and their products. I have been well aquainted with the Telefunken owner, Toni Fishman, for many years now , since before he purchased the Telefunken trademark, and have had literally hundreds and hundreds of hours of conversations with him regarding his products and methods. It would be an understatement to say that Toni is passionate about his pursuit of perfecting the reissue products that his company manufactures. Although we are not always in complete agreement , in general , his commitment to making the finest microphones available is an admirable and undeniable facet of his personal motivation. He has invested , literally, millions of dollars of his own money into this quest , without realizing much in the way of a personal return. In other words, he aint getting rich making microphones!! The fact is that he has made many hundreds of these wonderful microphones available , generally at prices that are far less than the “vintage” originals, and also has produced a source of parts for rebuilding the often broken and unusable original examples that we encounter. Most of the well known repair technicians who fix vintage microphones have used parts that Telefunken usa manufactures to rebuild older examples.


I have personally owned and used (2) Telefunken usa 251s and (1) m12 ( c12 reissue) . Although I am not an authorized Telefunken dealer per se , I have sold a few of his products to my clients, specifically (1) u47/vf14, and (2) tele 251’s… In my own case , I have been eminently satisfied , as have my clients , with the microphones. These clients of mine use their Telefunken usa microphones on a daily basis. I have used my own microphones to record many many tracks of widely varied instruments and vocals . I have also had the opportunity to compare the reissues with original , vintage examples , and have never been disappointed in the comparison. I have been present at one microphone comparison session, at the plant studios, wherein a dozen or more professional engineers were unable to distinguish which was which, using a variety of signal sources.

. I have also spoken with several world renowned recording engineers, specifically Allen Sides and Bill Schnee, about the Tele 251 reissue. These are two of the most respected recording professionals in the world ; well known to anyone who follows the art of hifi recording. Bill owns eight original , vintage 251’s, and Allen has 22 of them !! Bill has at least one pair of the reissues, and Allen at least 2 pairs. He also has one of the stereo Elam 270 reissue microphones. When I asked them , point blank , to tell me their honest opinions of the reissues, each of them basically said exactly the same thing: “ the reissues I have are not as good as the very best of the originals that I have , but they are better than most of them ….” In my mind , that is a very powerful endorsement. I know for a fact that Allen (if not Bill) has also sold numerous originals, always keeping the best ones for his own collection. Their abilities as engineers, and their commitment to hi fidelity sound is beyond question. They would have absolutely no cause to express anything other than their honest , and heartfelt opinions to me. I have known each of them for over 25 years.

Addressing Mr. Blairs observations about the technicalities of the microphones , I have the following comments:

1) The metal that the screws are made of that hold the various parts of the mics together , including the tensioning screws for the diaphragms makes no sonic difference whatsoever; nor does any “ graining” on the brass rings that surround the diaphragms. The color of the gold plating is not of any consequence either , what does matter is whether the specifications and frequency response of the capsules are within the scope of original manufacturers specifications.
2) All of the well known technicians who repair and restore vintage microphones have been modifying component values for years. The quest is for the best possible sonic performance , and modern components are generally far better than those that were available to manufacturers 45 or 50 years ago . There are numerous well known technicians who have made careers out of modifying vintage microphones , and I don’t believe I need to list them; several of them are contibutors to the various online forums . There have also been companies guilty of manufacturing “vintage” microphones branded, serial numbered, and sold as originals, when indeed they were not. However , Telefunken usa is not one of them.
3) The information on the Telefunken website is not 100% up to date. The company offers its customers a choice of the ecc81 or the 6072a, in the current reissue of the 251. It has been the studied opinion of both Dirk Brauner(Brauner mics) and Oliver Archut(TAB) , who were enlisted as consultants on this question , that the performance of the ecc81 is superior in the 251 circuit. The noise floor is lower and the overall performance is superior. The Telefunken website needs updating to reflect these current options, which are available to all of Telefunkens customers , and Telefunken will be updating its entire website in the near future.
4)I would invite Mr. Blair to participate in a blindfolded a/b comparison of vintage 251’s to Telefunken usa examples, and to ask him to point out which ones are old, which are new , and which ones sound the best.
5)I assert, with vast experience in such comparisons, that no one could possibly identify vintage vs. reissue correctly one way or the other, and indeed, I assert that no one would consistently prefer a vintage example over a reissue. I have sold more vintage microphones, since 1977, than any other person on this planet, and vintage mics vary , for a multitude of subtle technical reasons. Without a doubt, there are many older vintage mics that are simply not performing to original specifications. This does not imply by any means , that microphones improve with age , like an acoustic guitar. To the contrary, I maintain , without equivocation, and with a great deal of experience in the matter, that replacing decade old components (specifically caps and resistors ) with modern replacements vastly improves the performance of old microphones.
6) As for the matter of ef14 vs.uf14 vs. vf14 tubes, the simple fact is that the performance of these tubes, given the proper powering voltages , in the normal u47 circuit is identical. Several of the dozen or more U47s I sold to Shelley Yakus at A&M were uf14 retrofits, and they were some of his favorite microphones of all time . He was well aware that the mics had been modified when he purchased them …The fact is that all of these tubes were discontinued being made in 1939, so good luck obtaining a n.o.s. replacement VF14 with the Neumann “m” designation…
7) As for the decision to market the original M16, which was certainly a lapse of good judgement, no one could possibly regret that more than Toni , and to consider that a prime example of his motivation or methods would be doing a great disservice to someone who consistently has demonstrated a commitment to honest and fair business practices.

There are literally hundreds and hundreds of eminently satisfied customers of Telefunken Usa products , including a plethora of widely recognized professional recording studios, engineers, and artists. These fine microphones are being used every day , thoughout the world, in some of the most widely respected studios, by professionals who care deeply about sonic quality.

To put it simply , you can try as hard as possible , but you cannot please all the people all of the time. Mr Blair is in the vast vast minority in his dissatisfaction with Telefunken usa’s reissue products.
Old 19th June 2008
  #5
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whitepapagold's Avatar
 

Hmmm. 1 post.

Obviously you are following this guy around trying to refute his assertions...

Thats one very methodical post...

From what I have SEEN and NOT just from Mr. Blair, his claims have in the past been VERY ACCURATE as to the obvious INTENTIONAL misrepresentation of certain products...

BUT of course the Telefunken of today is just the leftovers of one of the original "NIKE" style distributors of days gone by. A name purchased for brand recognition and NOTHING ELSE...
Old 19th June 2008
  #6
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

I've used that mic a few times...its reeeaaaalllll nice! heh

Irregardless of the over-analysis of component selection and (debatable) validity of the sonic impact thereof, the mic is a gem.

Whoever 'restored' the mic was completely dramatizing its condition.
I used that mic 6 months ago and it was fantastic.

Last edited by Stitch333; 19th June 2008 at 02:11 AM.. Reason: just read the ebay listing
Old 19th June 2008
  #7
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Martin Kantola's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan alexander View Post
As for the matter of ef14 vs.uf14 vs. vf14 tubes, the simple fact is that the performance of these tubes, given the proper powering voltages , in the normal u47 circuit is identical.
Sorry, but you can NOT use the "normal U47 circuit" with any other tube than the original VF14. Any other tube calls for a modification of the circuitry. Also, the underheating used in the U47 cannot be applied to the other tubes without issues.

Having said that, I have nothing but respect for a great sounding (and looking!) microphone, regardless of when and where it was made. Haven't had a chance to use any Telefunken USA microphones yet, but hopefully some day soon.

Martin
Old 19th June 2008
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Dan, I specified the misleading information, which was that they claim to supply GE American made 6072a tubes, when in fact they supplied a ECC81.
i was offered my pick of either tube. i bought both to hear the differences, and preferred the 6072 the day we tested. can always switch the tube if i want to.

when i was offered my pick, i was told it came with the 6072 as stock. i payed extra for the ECC81. i certainly don't feel misled.
Old 19th June 2008
  #9
Old 19th June 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
Well, to be fair, this mic came from GC Pro, not from T-USA directly. But the only information he had to go on was from the website. I also feel that the statement from their rep claiming that the ECC81 is better than the 6072 is disingenuous, at best.
this is neither here nor there but i can understand someone preferring the sound of the ECC81 to the 6072. had a bit of a low end bump, a little more 47 like if you will, but i wanted my 251 to sound like a 251. didn't notice any self noise, so i'm quite happy with whatever 6072 is in there as you can probably tell.
Old 19th June 2008
  #11
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videoteque's Avatar
I am not an expert on JJ Blair's life or carreer nor on vintage microphones...

I think though that JJ could more easily keep his findings/improvements for himself and don't remove the waters. The fact that he made them public is a service for the whole recording community. Instead of producing poor excuses, Telefunken should take notice of the advises and made their products at 100% of their capabilities instead of 95%, which in the end I understand is what JJ is all about.

It's not 20$ saved in parts that will make or break the Telefunken USA project. Maybe the fact that they make their mics as good as they can is a good reason to buy them.
Old 19th June 2008
  #12
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Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post
Hmmm. 1 post.

Obviously you are following this guy around trying to refute his assertions...
You quite obviously have been "in the life" for about 15-20 minutes.

Dan Alexander has been one of the cornerstones of the professional audio industry longer than I've been involved with it [and golly, I think I have 5k+ posts so perhaps I have a modicum of credibility in your eyes].

Dan has owned many notable studios in the San Francisco bay area, many of them "Wally Heider" rooms... "Coast Recording" being among them.

He was one of the first to recognize "vintage" gear as being of value. He has worked closely with Alan Sides, Shnee, Yakus and A&M, and pretty much all of the other top professionals [prior to the democratization of audio]. While we started as competitors, Dan has always extended a hand of friendship and is sincerely passionate about quality audio recording... in some ways he has been something of a mentor to me in how to deal with the equipment industry.

I first met Dan in 1989 at the "Media Sound" auction in New York City... but he was already a legend at that time. I dare say that the bulk of the "vintage" gear you'll find at Henson [the studio formerly known as A&M] passed through Dan's shop. Numerous articles have been written on his studios and his work, though he's not an Internet junkie [unlike me] so he only has "one post"... which was made because he is indeed passionate about superior audio and feels that the "witch hunt" / "lynch mobs" of Gearslutz have been quick to judge T'funk USA unfairly.

Last I heard everyone has a voice... some should use it, others should not [I'm sure I'm in the latter category but who cares]. The fact of the matter is that there are maybe 10-12 people on the face of the planet that have as much experience with "vintage microphones" as Dan Alexander [and no, I ain't one of them... neither is my dear friend, JJ Blair].

While JJ's statements can indeed be substantiated, and there is no reason I would refute his statements, I would highly suggest that they not be taken as any form of "Gospel truth" but as statements from a dissatisfied customer. There are always dissatisfied customers... the question is whether there are more satisfied customers than dissatisfied customers... and in this case I dare say there are more satisfied customers than not.

I too have had my "issues" with T'funk USA... I too was very sceptically presupposed when I first checked out the M-16 mkII and the AK-47 mkII... but I have to say they passed with flying colors. As for the "vintage recreations"... I've heard 3x 251's, two were amazing, one was "eh"... we got a U-47 VF-14 recreation for a very particular client in Seattle... he has one of the absolute best sounding U-48's I have ever experinced [and while I haven't experienced nearly as many as Dan, Sides, Yakus or Shnee... I've heard more than my share].

The T'funk 47 recreation sounded right up there with my client's U-48... and to be honest, I was exceptionally surprised that the "recreation" was as lovely sounding as it was... surprised or not, it sounded great, my client was very pleased, and I found a new level of respect for Toni and the guys at T'funk USA. Now I realize the cynics are going to say "of course you like them... you're a dealer". To those cynics I reply that the only reason we became a dealer was because we were floored by the product [which again, I was pre disposed not to like... the pre supposition coming from statements like JJ's... mainly from a competing mic manufacturer].

To me, the bottom line is that you can keep burning the torches and waving the pitch forks... but at the end of the day the folks at T'funk USA are doing a pretty excellent job... and that getting a guy like Dan Alexander to stand up for them [while he's not a dealer, or consultant, but certainly has a fondness for the creations] is no small feat and should be taken [with whatever grains of salt you'd like] as a ringing endorsement.

Peace.
Old 19th June 2008
  #13
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Wasn't Dan Alexander the kat who ORIGINALLY went to Europe and bought every vintage Neumann and Telefunken mic he could to import in the 60's/70's?

I don't know him personally, but Fletcher is absolutely right.
He has become 'the dude'. No denying it.
Old 19th June 2008
  #14
outofphase
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post
Hmmm. 1 post.

Obviously you are following this guy around trying to refute his assertions...

Thats one very methodical post...

From what I have SEEN and NOT just from Mr. Blair, his claims have in the past been VERY ACCURATE as to the obvious INTENTIONAL misrepresentation of certain products...

BUT of course the Telefunken of today is just the leftovers of one of the original "NIKE" style distributors of days gone by. A name purchased for brand recognition and NOTHING ELSE...
Hey Mr. "White papa gold", Dan Alexander knows one thing or two about vintage microphones:


Old 19th June 2008
  #15
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jjblair's Avatar
Fletcher, you are right. These are just my observations and my findings. Like I always say over at PSW, when I'll post examples of stuff I've done, either you like my ears, the way I hear things and the sounds I get, or you don't. If you do, then listen to me. If you don't ignore me.

However, it should be noted that I spoke with quite a few of the great designers and gear makers about my observations, and I went to great lengths to not make assertions that were false. I even had my blog reviewed and fact checked by a highly respected designer / genius, as to make sure it was unassailable. I wasn't going to just hang my ass out on the line and have people tell me that I was full of ****. In fact, I was contacted by a number of people who more or less said, "Thank you for saying stuff that we all knew, but have been unable to say."

And FYI, I don't even consider myself as a customer. I didn't buy anything from them. The U47 that I'd fixed was not even my own. It came from an actual dissatisfied customer, and he asked me to take a swing at improving it.
BTW, if anybody here is doubting Dan's credentials, you really need to rethink that. But like I said, he seemed to miss what I was getting at, as he mainly attacked points that I wasn't even making.
Old 19th June 2008
  #16
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by videoteque View Post
I am not an expert on JJ Blair's life or carreer nor on vintage microphones...

I think though that JJ could more easily keep his findings/improvements for himself and don't remove the waters. The fact that he made them public is a service for the whole recording community. Instead of producing poor excuses, Telefunken should take notice of the advises and made their products at 100% of their capabilities instead of 95%, which in the end I understand is what JJ is all about.
I really struggled with this decision. I obviously have nothing to gain personally from all of this. I knew it was going to be a headache, and if you look through Klaus' forum, you can find where Toni threatened to sue me for saying stuff about the sputtering and gluing of the TK12. I kind of DO regret the blog, simply because of all the energy I've had to expend in the fall out. It's draining me, and I feel like taking a break from forums for a while. But knowing that they are changing some things as a result is the consolation. I'm still waiting for the lawsuit papers to show up, though.
Old 19th June 2008
  #17
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
It's all good mate... I NEVER questioned the validity of your findings... I'm sure they're all spot on... at the same time I know that it's pretty much impossible to get mica wound resistors in 2008 [OK, it's possible... but the QC from resistor to resistor is less than stellar to say the least and the drop down resistor they're using now doesn't detract from the tone in my never humble opinion]... I also know that Toni has been in contact with Bosch about trying to get documentation to have things like the original caps built [which is kinda like asking Chrysler for documentation on the pigment mixture for the "Coral" color featured on many a 1956 Plymouth].

I really don't doubt you found what you found... nor do I doubt that you didn't hear what you wanted to hear... nor do I doubt that you have been able to get the products to sound how you wanted them to sound... and further, I would be the last person not to point out that the T'funk guys have made their share of mistakes over time... but, at least to me, the bottom line to all of this is that there are many more satisfied customers than dissatisfied customers... and I count myself in the "satisfied customer" group.

The first 251 they sent over for us to listen to was great... the next 251 they sent over was "eh"... since then I've heard others and thought they were pretty damn good... I relayed the U-47 experience in the last post, no need to bore anyone with it again. Now we get onto the "R-F-T" side of things where I frankly wanted to hate the mics when they came in... and couldn't.

Interesting side story... I had run into Toni at a "Goo Goo Dolls" show in Connecticut... we bull****ted around backstage for a while and he finally got me to commit to listening to the R-F-T stuff [after all of the Apex press I sincerely wasn't interested in going ANYWHERE near the stuff!!]. So I called over to T'funk at 4pm on a Thursday afternoon with the full realization that there was no way in hell anyone could "QC" a dozen mics before UPS showed up... even if UPS didn't show until 6p.

UPS from Hartford, CT to Foxboro, MA is an overnight delivery. Friday of that week 6x AK-47 mkII's showed up at the door as well as 6x M-16 mkII's. We had the intern unpack ALL OF THEM, set them up on stands and "burn them in" over the weekend. On Monday, after work, a couple of us went into the back and listened to each of the dozen mics. The AK-47 mkII's were so close in sound NONE of us could tell one from the other. Same with the M-16 mkII's... so, we decided to give them a go in actual session work.

The first use of the M-16mkII and the AK-47 mkII is posted on the M-A "myspace" page [it's called "Begin Again"... and yeah, it's a **** sounding MP-3 on a "live guitar / vocal" date], but I have to say I was rather impressed with the results I heard from the mics. Since then they've been on pretty much every drum tracking date [usually as overheads, sometimes as kik and snare mics]... I've used them on our piano... got some absolutely stellar results... I've used them on male vocals, female vocals, one vocalist who could very well have been a hermaphrodite [think of the old Saturday Night Live "Pat" skits]... and they work well the majority of the time.

I'm not saying that the T'funk thing is the solution to world peace, world hunger, or lower gas prices... all I'm saying is they're not the evil satanic figure they're being made out to resemble around here and that if people listen to the product and make an educated decision as to whether or not the product will suit their requirements they'll be far better off than if they get scared off by an "unhappy [but vocal] minority" of T'funk USA product owners.

Fair enough?
Old 19th June 2008
  #18
outofphase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
I really struggled with this decision. I obviously have nothing to gain personally from all of this. I knew it was going to be a headache, and if you look through Klaus' forum, you can find where Toni threatened to sue me for saying stuff about the sputtering and gluing of the TK12. I kind of DO regret the blog, simply because of all the energy I've had to expend in the fall out. It's draining me, and I feel like taking a break from forums for a while. But knowing that they are changing some things as a result is the consolation. I'm still waiting for the lawsuit papers to show up, though.
Old 19th June 2008
  #19
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jjBlair, you are a hero to me. People like you should be respected. If someone is going to sue you for a right you have in the first amendment, I hope they fall off a cliff and break all the bones in their body. People like you are giving us the strait facts, and I honor that
Old 19th June 2008
  #20
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Fletcher's Avatar
Please make no mistake, I have a great deal of respect for JJ and consider him a friend [not like we're going to be picking out curtains any time soon... but drinks and dinner are always in the cards]... and please make no mistake that I do not have any issue as to what JJ has posted here, on his blog or in his magazine writings. I have always found JJ's ethics beyond reproach, and JJ as a human to be entirely above board and straight forward.

As for "getting sued"... it's really easy to get defensive [even when you're wrong] about the family brand... threatening to sue and actually suing are two entirely different matters... one takes a few dumbass angry seconds, the other several thousands of dollars [and you best be 1000% right, or Roger Clemens].

The fact of the matter is that what JJ experienced is NOT what the great majority of Telefunken USA product owners have experienced... the mic he got was originally billed as a "B stock" unit when it was traded to a guy for a Les Paul... if I have my facts straight, that guy shifted it to Guitar Center, and that's where JJ picked it up. I could be wrong on the "post trade" chain... but I do know that mic was sold as a "B stock" unit [which should hopefully teach the guys in Connecticut that no good deed ever goes unpunished... don't let "B stock" stuff out of the factory... EVER!!].

As for the other various parts issues JJ has "discovered", at the end of the day the proof is always on the male XLR connector on the power supply... if the **** don't sound right then it's wrong... fortunately most of the ELAM's and 47's out there sound right otherwise there wouldn't have been an R-F-T line and T'funk USA wouldn't have been around for 8 years with some pretty picky and high profile clients.

Food for thought?
Old 20th June 2008
  #21
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jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
The fact of the matter is that what JJ experienced is NOT what the great majority of Telefunken USA product owners have experienced... the mic he got was originally billed as a "B stock" unit when it was traded to a guy for a Les Paul... if I have my facts straight, that guy shifted it to Guitar Center, and that's where JJ picked it up.
Nope. I got it directly from the guy. They mentioned it was a B Stock, but I think that had to do with the quality of the paint and the fact that they were using a 250 grill on a 251. And if anything about that mic other than the body was B stock, I'll be shocked, because it was part for part, the same as my friends 251V, except for the tube.

They keep whining about this "B stock" thing, but none of my findings in my blog relate to any of the aspects of that. They've been completely silent in the forums about this, and they have not explained what about those electronics were B stock. the values all measured as they were indicated on their markings, and on the inside, it was identical to the A stock mic.

Regardless of the B stockness, here's something that really drove me nuts: Said former owner furnished them with a CK12, which had ben reskinned by Thiersch. This capsule had a wrinkle on it on one side. Guess what side T-USA put on the front side... You guessed it; the wrinkled one. And the thing is that I just found that to be a consistent theme with QC over there, on the three mics of theirs I've worked on: A $10k 251, with a screw rattling around inside, and the bottom collar threaded wrong, and not opening; or a VF14 U47 with a power supply feeding 117V instead of 106V, not to mention that whole drop resistor debacle. And other techs had reported findings to me with enough regularity, that I came to wonder if that just the three mics I came into contact with had issues, and these other folks are reporting issues, is this not a pattern?

Quote:
As for the other various parts issues JJ has "discovered", at the end of the day the proof is always on the male XLR connector on the power supply... if the **** don't sound right then it's wrong... fortunately most of the ELAM's and 47's out there sound right otherwise there wouldn't have been an R-F-T line and T'funk USA wouldn't have been around for 8 years with some pretty picky and high profile clients.

Food for thought?
You know, I had a Blue 47 for years, and made some great recordings with it and was very satisfied. But then I learned what was going on inside there, and then I also A/B'd with a VF14 U47, and suddenly, it wasn't as great as I thought it was. I mean, hey, I was a proponent of Toni's U47s until I got under the hood. They never sounded quite as good to me as a good real one, but I recommended them, until I worked on that 251, and saw that they were doing the same things in the 47.

And don't forget, I asked Alan about why these choices were made, value wise, at least twice, and the answers never came. My guess is that there's nobody working there than can actually answer that question. I could be wrong, but I know people guys who sell them OEM parts who have asked to speak to the person who should be in charge of that stuff, and they don't exist.
Old 20th June 2008
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylansmale View Post
jjBlair, you are a hero to me. People like you should be respected. If someone is going to sue you for a right you have in the first amendment, I hope they fall off a cliff and break all the bones in their body. People like you are giving us the strait facts, and I honor that

You sound like an idiot.

1. The first ammendment doesn't protect against slander. (not that JJ is slandering, just making a point that speach isn't free)
2. Wishing bodily harm towards someone over their choice of resistor in a circuit borders on insane.
3. Hero worship of a "resistor rat" tips the scale even more.
4. How do you know what the straight facts are, and what exactly are you honoring?

Take it easy on the Gladiator re-runs bro.


(PS JJ, Strength & Honor )
Old 20th June 2008
  #23
outofphase
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylansmale
jjBlair, you are a hero to me. People like you should be respected. If someone is going to sue you for a right you have in the first amendment, I hope they fall off a cliff and break all the bones in their body. People like you are giving us the strait facts, and I honor that
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
Quote:

You sound like an idiot.

1. The first ammendment doesn't protect against slander.
2. Wishing bodily harm towards someone over their choice of resistor in a circuit borders on insane.
3. Hero worship of a "resistor rat" tips the scale even more.
4. How do you know what the straight facts are, and what exactly are you honoring?
Take it easy on the Gladiator re-runs bro.
Old 20th June 2008
  #24
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Empty Planet's Avatar
 

Resistor rat????




Why don't you just say capacitor co-conspirator and have done with it? That's what you mean, isn't it!?!?!

Vive la resist[or]
ance!









Old 20th June 2008
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
You sound like an idiot.

1. The first ammendment doesn't protect against slander. (not that JJ is slandering, just making a point that speach isn't free)
2. Wishing bodily harm towards someone over their choice of resistor in a circuit borders on insane.
3. Hero worship of a "resistor rat" tips the scale even more.
4. How do you know what the straight facts are, and what exactly are you honoring?

Take it easy on the Gladiator re-runs bro.


(PS JJ, Strength & Honor )
well if I'm an idiot than you remind me of an asshole which is both an idiot and an asshole. bodily harm could be necessary if you just bought a $17,000. its about the time making that money to buy it.

you are making assumptions about me. Its not like anyone was asking for a peace of mind
Old 20th June 2008
  #26
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
You quite obviously have been "in the life" for about 15-20 minutes.

Dan Alexander has been one of the cornerstones of the professional audio industry longer than I've been involved with it [and golly, I think I have 5k+ posts so perhaps I have a modicum of credibility in your eyes].

Dan has owned many notable studios in the San Francisco bay area, many of them "Wally Heider" rooms... "Coast Recording" being among them.

He was one of the first to recognize "vintage" gear as being of value. He has worked closely with Alan Sides, Shnee, Yakus and A&M, and pretty much all of the other top professionals [prior to the democratization of audio]. While we started as competitors, Dan has always extended a hand of friendship and is sincerely passionate about quality audio recording... in some ways he has been something of a mentor to me in how to deal with the equipment industry.

I first met Dan in 1989 at the "Media Sound" auction in New York City... but he was already a legend at that time. I dare say that the bulk of the "vintage" gear you'll find at Henson [the studio formerly known as A&M] passed through Dan's shop. Numerous articles have been written on his studios and his work, though he's not an Internet junkie [unlike me] so he only has "one post"... which was made because he is indeed passionate about superior audio and feels that the "witch hunt" / "lynch mobs" of Gearslutz have been quick to judge T'funk USA unfairly.

Last I heard everyone has a voice... some should use it, others should not [I'm sure I'm in the latter category but who cares]. The fact of the matter is that there are maybe 10-12 people on the face of the planet that have as much experience with "vintage microphones" as Dan Alexander [and no, I ain't one of them... neither is my dear friend, JJ Blair].

While JJ's statements can indeed be substantiated, and there is no reason I would refute his statements, I would highly suggest that they not be taken as any form of "Gospel truth" but as statements from a dissatisfied customer. There are always dissatisfied customers... the question is whether there are more satisfied customers than dissatisfied customers... and in this case I dare say there are more satisfied customers than not.

I too have had my "issues" with T'funk USA... I too was very sceptically presupposed when I first checked out the M-16 mkII and the AK-47 mkII... but I have to say they passed with flying colors. As for the "vintage recreations"... I've heard 3x 251's, two were amazing, one was "eh"... we got a U-47 VF-14 recreation for a very particular client in Seattle... he has one of the absolute best sounding U-48's I have ever experinced [and while I haven't experienced nearly as many as Dan, Sides, Yakus or Shnee... I've heard more than my share].

The T'funk 47 recreation sounded right up there with my client's U-48... and to be honest, I was exceptionally surprised that the "recreation" was as lovely sounding as it was... surprised or not, it sounded great, my client was very pleased, and I found a new level of respect for Toni and the guys at T'funk USA. Now I realize the cynics are going to say "of course you like them... you're a dealer". To those cynics I reply that the only reason we became a dealer was because we were floored by the product [which again, I was pre disposed not to like... the pre supposition coming from statements like JJ's... mainly from a competing mic manufacturer].

To me, the bottom line is that you can keep burning the torches and waving the pitch forks... but at the end of the day the folks at T'funk USA are doing a pretty excellent job... and that getting a guy like Dan Alexander to stand up for them [while he's not a dealer, or consultant, but certainly has a fondness for the creations] is no small feat and should be taken [with whatever grains of salt you'd like] as a ringing endorsement.

Peace.
Wow Fletcher, I don't always agree with you but I gotta say, great post!
Old 20th June 2008
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post
Hmmm. 1 post.

Obviously you are following this guy around trying to refute his assertions...

Thats one very methodical post...
Are you trying to rebut Dan Alexander based on his posting history?

I think you need to do some homework and find out who he is before you start refuting Dan's expertise.
Old 20th June 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dylansmale View Post
well if I'm an idiot than you remind me of an asshole which is both an idiot and an asshole.
Interesting use of Einstein's theory of relativity...

Anyhow, you're right. I am a bit of an ass, you did not deserve to be called an idiot, your probably a nice person. My apologies.
Old 20th June 2008
  #29
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston View Post
Are you trying to rebut Dan Alexander based on his posting history?

I think you need to do some homework and find out who he is before you start refuting Dan's expertise.
Werd.
Old 20th June 2008
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

my second posting

Thanks for the kind words , Fletcher , ( and the rest of you) and my son loves his t shirts!!!
I ve been around for a while , and have had a bit of experience with old gear , and now im starting to really enjoy my pro tools as well ...go figure ....at any rate , i think the internet is a very interesting thing ...it allows just about anyone to claim expertise , and if one is stern enough, and strident enough, there are always people who take it ( or mistake it) as wisdom. ...there seem to be a lot of posters on the forums who are audio enthusiasts, but who havent much real experience with high end gear. It requires direct comparison to recognize the difference in quality between, say, a u87 and a u67 ( for example)....I dont know who jj blair is , but perhaps I sold him something in the past.. I really have a difficult time remembering everyone Ive dealt with ..... I think if he was really concerned that Telefunken improve their product , a public, and ultimately negative airing of his assertions is not the best possible way to affect positive change ..... As for reality, building a product line as diverse as Telefunken is a huge undertaking, and the audio community is fortunate that the people at Telefunken have made the immense commitment that they have to do so . One must remember that the classic tube mics were really built by only two companies, and those companies had extremely gifted technical resources. In spite of that, they both seemed to lose sight of their own best creations...for example , clearly the progression from c12 ,to c12a(altho I do love a c12a) ,to c412, to c414,to c414eb,to c414eb uls seems to provide evidence that, indeed , the people making the technical decisions were not actually listening to their products....perhaps there were other , economic, factors that dictated what seems to be a steady progression towards lower fi products.... Im sure we can all agree that a c12 is notably superior to any model of 414 .... and the fact that Neumann was building u47s, and m49s ,and km54's, and all the rest of their extraordinary classic designs , and now they sell a tlm 103 and a km184( and the rest) is indicative of the same lack of commitment to, and dare I say perception of , SOUND quality. The American distributor of Neumann products in the usa from 1959 til sennheiser took over once told me " any recording engineer who uses a U47 is obviously not a professional" , at the time when the U87 was the flagship of the product line; clearly , he was interested in selling new product, not in sound.... Of course , he was very unhappy that I was importing hundreds of old microphones, and providing people with the opportunity to compare them with the new ones. ( He didnt like me very much, nor did I care for him either ) .. but i digress ... whether or not one chooses to believe that changing a few components in a new Telefunken product will bring it closer to the original design is a really small thing, in comparison to the fact that the company is building the broadest line of classic reissues available in the world, and making these exceptional designs available to an extent that they havent been in decades... Imagine a company making 1960 sunbursts, 1960 stratocasters, stack pot jazz basses, om45's , D Aquisto's, and Weissenborn guitars all at the same time , and all of such quality that most professionals embraced them as equal to the originals, and selling them for a small fraction of the going rate for an older example .Would it really matter if they had waverlys instead of kluson tuners? And to me , the bottom line is that no microphone is going to tune the drums, or rewrite the lyrics . If the Telefunken mics are not good enough to record your music , you may as well stay home, and practise a bit more ....!!!

Last edited by dan alexander; 20th June 2008 at 07:45 AM.. Reason: additional points.
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