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-   -   Rosetta 200 Vs Aurora 16 Shout Out The "test" (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/198764-rosetta-200-vs-aurora-16-shout-out-quot-test-quot.html)

mdjice 21st May 2008 06:55 PM

Ok, I'm doing the test as I type. first, the Fantom doesn't have adat out so I'm using spdif to record the "original" source track.

I can tell you from now that The Rosetta and the Aurora sound very different. Something to note also, the Level of the Aurora is way lower then the rosetta. I had to compensate gain "up" on the Aurora track.
While I'm at it I will also do the test using my Non Modded M-audio 1418 so we will get results from a Low end Sets of converters (m-audio) the original track (fantom Spdif) and 2 high end converters (Rosetta 200 and Aurora 16)
I will post the tracks soon

IM WHO YOU THINK 21st May 2008 07:18 PM

Would you do a favor for me while you have both converters? I'll provide some ref material from the CD's I ref. Could you import the files into your DAW, send it out and back in to each converter then record it on separate tracks?

I know it's not a/d or D/A separately since it's doing the full loop but I'd be curious what the sonic imprint of each converter is in the loop.

mdjice 21st May 2008 07:18 PM

Do you guys want the files 24 or 16bit?

IM WHO YOU THINK 21st May 2008 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdjice (Post 2065331)
Do you guys want the files 24 or 16bit?

24 bit

And thanks for taking the time to post it.

mdjice 21st May 2008 07:33 PM

No problem ;)
I also Noticed something un usual when Zooming in PT. I made a snapshot and will post it as well.
The files are zipped together and are loading now

mdjice 21st May 2008 07:52 PM

2 Attachment(s)
here we go:

all files Bounced from PT 44/24bits
No compression no preamp, nothing beside a bit of gain match up between takes (using gain in PT afterwords)

Fantom into PT Spdif optical for Original

Fantom to Rosetta 200 Mogami cables, Rosetta's clock used

Fantom to Aurora Mogami Cables Aurora's Clock Used

Fantom to Maudio Mogami Cables M-audio Clock used.

Now all files are number except the original. They are NOT is the same order as mentioned above. Give your opinion and I will let you know the Results soon enough.
I also post a Picture of the setup along with a very interesting picture from the PT session
Enjoy

http://www.thecoldchamber.com/test/test.zip

mdjice 21st May 2008 08:01 PM

PS: looking at the PT snapshot it would seam that I miss plugged L/and R/ channels for the 3rd track. No big deal, the graphs are just inverted

mdjice 21st May 2008 11:05 PM

boing

Audiop 21st May 2008 11:34 PM

Hi!

Would you mind clarify how you did these testfiles?

I don't understand the routing of the signal and what stages it passes thru.

Fantom.. what is that?

Are you feeding an analog or digital signal to the DUT'?


/Peter

Dean Roddey 21st May 2008 11:35 PM

They definitely look very different in general. You sure you don't have any sort of onboard limiting or massaging settings enabled on either of them?

IM WHO YOU THINK 22nd May 2008 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiop (Post 2065965)
Hi!

Would you mind clarify how you did these testfiles?

I don't understand the routing of the signal and what stages it passes thru.

Fantom.. what is that?

Are you feeding an analog or digital signal to the DUT'?


/Peter

The fantom is a midi sound module. He's recording the demo from it through 2 sets of coverters

The primary flaw in the methodology here is that you can't really compare the 2 audio tracks to the SPDIF track. The Fantom's D/A converters are used in th 2 tracks showing the A/D converters but it isn't used in the SPDIF track.

The most we can do here is compare the 2 converters and say which we like more.

mdjice 22nd May 2008 12:05 AM

Ok Fantom is a Rack: Roland Fantom XR (as seen on the setup pics). No there is NO limiting at all. The M aduio was peaking so I lowered the volume on the fantom a bit and matched up the gain in PT that was it.
This test shows you the original track (demo straight from the Fantom rack To PT via Coax Spdif) and 3 version with different converters, nothing was changed in between takes, same session same cables etc. they only thing that changed were the Converters and Their own clock. This REALLY show you how converters work compare to the original track. Don;t forget I posted a Zip file with all Tracks at 44/24 bits for you to listen
M.

Audiop 22nd May 2008 12:09 AM

Okay thanks.. so the Fantom puts out an analog signal that is recorded by either converter?

That means that we listen to the Fantom DA > "brand-X" AD > our own DA?

Again to me it makes much more sense to use a digital signal to each DUT and let the signal take a roundtrip... a loopback thru the DA>AD.


/Peter

IM WHO YOU THINK 22nd May 2008 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdjice (Post 2066044)
Ok Fantom is a Rack: Roland Fantom XR (as seen on the setup pics). No there is NO limiting at all. The M aduio was peaking so I lowered the volume on the fantom a bit and matched up the gain in PT that was it.
This test shows you the original track (demo straight from the Fantom rack To PT via Coax Spdif) and 3 version with different converters, nothing was changed in between takes, same session same cables etc. they only thing that changed were the Converters and Their own clock. This REALLY show you how converters work compare to the original track. Don;t forget I posted a Zip file with all Tracks at 44/24 bits for you to listen
M.

Each one of your converter tests uses the Fantom's D/Ahowdy
You can't expect it to equal the SPDIF signal.

It would help if you calibrated all of the converters the same before recording, because once you change the level in of the Fantom you have added additional factors.

mdjice 22nd May 2008 12:20 AM

levels will not affect quality, it's mot like I'm limiting plus I only changed the level for the m audio, the aurora and the Rosetta had the volume all the way up.
However I did calibrate the sounds by matching each take.They have similair gain. None is louder then the other, you can check yourself with the ziped files.
I used analog out when going from the fantom to converters but for the original it was fantom to PT digital ( no conversion). There is no need to have the signal do a loop.
UI'm only testing the AD side of converters with this test

mdjice 22nd May 2008 12:23 AM

oh and actually you have 3 tracks Plus original.
1 rosetta
1 m audio 1884
and 1 aurora (not in this order)
plus of course the original spdif which did NOT convert.
and yes you can look at this test as Once the Fantom went analog, which converters did a better job (which sound do you like the best) to re convert to digital

IM WHO YOU THINK 22nd May 2008 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdjice (Post 2066094)
levels will not affect quality, it's mot like I'm limiting plus I only changed the level for the m audio, the aurora and the Rosetta had the volume all the way up.
However I did calibrate the sounds by matching each take.They have similair gain. None is louder then the other, you can check yourself with the ziped files.
I used analog out when going from the fantom to converters but for the original it was fantom to PT digital ( no conversion). There is no need to have the signal do a loop.
UI'm only testing the AD side of converters with this test

You're missing the point.

You can't compare to the Fantom to PT digital track.
You are testing the A/D side of the converters as well as the Fantom's D/A convertershowdy

mdjice 22nd May 2008 12:40 AM

Thats's why it's only a reference track

IM WHO YOU THINK 22nd May 2008 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdjice (Post 2066139)
Thats's why it's only a reference track

A reference of what though?heh

ocp 22nd May 2008 12:57 AM

I'd say sample #3 is the M-Audio and the other two sound pretty similar to me.
I'm listening through headphones though (Sennheiser HD565) and an Apogee Duet.
My 0,2€

Dean Roddey 22nd May 2008 01:02 AM

Quote:

I'm listening through headphones though (Sennheiser HD565) and an Apogee Duet.
Which kind of also points out the difficulty of a meaningful comparison, in that you are playing it back through another digital converter to listen to it.

ocp 22nd May 2008 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey (Post 2066188)
Which kind of also points out the difficulty of a meaningful comparison, in that you are playing it back through another digital converter to listen to it.

Obviously heppy

mdjice 22nd May 2008 01:10 AM

true but it doesn't matter as all samples go thru your same DA monitoring
any other clues guys? which is which?

Dean Roddey 22nd May 2008 01:17 AM

I won't be able to listen in a good environment until later tonight.

Dean Roddey 22nd May 2008 01:18 AM

Quote:

true but it doesn't matter as all samples go thru your same DA monitoring any other clues guys? which is which?
I'm not so sure of that. If it's the case that they have significant differences, then if the D/A also has significant differences, those could either be detrimental or complementary to a given set of original A/D differences.

ocp 22nd May 2008 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey (Post 2066229)
I'm not so sure of that. If it's the case that they have significant differences, then if the D/A also has significant differences, those could either be detrimental or complementary to a given set of original A/D differences.

be a sport and give those samples a listen kfhkh

mdjice 22nd May 2008 03:22 AM

what I meant was that no matter what your monitoring system when you listen to the tracks you will still be able to heard a difference as you listen to all samples from the same monitoring (yours)
if i upload a crappy mp3 and a good one it might sound different on everyone's setup but the crappy one will always sound crappier then the good one

Duardo 22nd May 2008 05:00 AM

Quote:

Ok so how about if I plug a CDJ (pioneer) into both and record the signal this way? plus import the original in protools so you can compare between rosetta aurora and original? better?
Not really...the signals's still been converted to digital and back to analog at least once, so again there's no high-frequency content for the converters to deal with. And importing the tracks into Pro Tools won't really help either...to really hear the original source we'd have to be able to hear the analog output of the CDJ and compare it to the signal that goes through the converters...

Even if you were able to split a true analog signal and send it to both converters simultaneously, though, you can't do a completely valid comparison of A/D converters without being able to compare both signals to the original analog signal...in other words, you really can't do it without actually being there. Sure, posting files online can give you an idea of which converter you may like better, but you have no way of knowing which one is really more accurate, which is typically what one looks for in a converter...

Audiop 22nd May 2008 09:13 AM

Agree that an analog tape or DSD to the converter in the loop and compared with analog/DSD direct is what would be the best test.

However a digital loopback test (digital signal to converter then a roundtrip/loopback thru DA and AD) makes some sense anyway. Many people (as I understand it) use converters when mixing and mastering and in those situation the signal is allready PCM'ed and the situation is the same.

Sorry for repeating mysel but skipping the Fantom and using the converters own DA for the test is more interesting IMO.


/Peter

mdjice 22nd May 2008 12:31 PM

well getting sounds from a sound module to PT is something I do everyday so I wanted to know what would be the difference between each take (M audio, Rosetta and Aurora) and this test does just that. In a common recording situation you make a beat using MPc fantom, Virus etc... you want to bounce it to protools you plug it into your converters end press record..end of the storie. This test is really to determine the differences if any between converters in this "specific" situation
I will give you the results late on today...any more guesses?