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Seventh Circle Audio - A Review of the N72 - The REAL deal
Old 11th March 2005
  #31
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severe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by seb37000
Well, the only bad thing that I would have to say about SCA is that I ordered a pre completly built in december and that I still dont have it.
I hope I'll be rewarded for all this waiting.
But I think its time SCA gets some help building those pres as it looks like there is really a big interest.

Ouch.

Thats not encouraging.

yea..Steve, Ive heard about the guy in Nashville. That would be great.


Thanks
Old 11th March 2005
  #32
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Cryptic,

N72 vs. TG-2: Did your TG-2 have the impedance switch option? If so, I assume you compared at both impedances when using the Royer R121?

Also, the N72 appears to have 55db of gain? Did you find that enough with your Royer? Maybe the Royer on electric GTR is fine, but more distant micing maybe the N72 wouldn't have the gain needed that the TG-2 has?

Finally, the N72 appears to modeled after that 1272 yet (from reviews) seems to have the character of the 1073 series. The 1272's that have been racked by Brent Averill or others seem to be darker than the 1073's even though I've been told they should sound the same up to a certain gain point (before the 1073 2nd? gain circuit kicks in). Any thoughts on this?



Fleaman
Old 11th March 2005
  #33
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Screws's Avatar
 

N72 has 70db of gain, not 55. The 1073 has a third gain "block" that comes into play after 55db, the N72 does not. Therefore, the N72 stops sounding like a 1073 beyond 55db, but sounds rather similar right up to it.
Old 11th March 2005
  #34
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman
Cryptic,

N72 vs. TG-2: Did your TG-2 have the impedance switch option? If so, I assume you compared at both impedances when using the Royer R121?

Also, the N72 appears to have 55db of gain? Did you find that enough with your Royer? Maybe the Royer on electric GTR is fine, but more distant micing maybe the N72 wouldn't have the gain needed that the TG-2 has?

Finally, the N72 appears to modeled after that 1272 yet (from reviews) seems to have the character of the 1073 series. The 1272's that have been racked by Brent Averill or others seem to be darker than the 1073's even though I've been told they should sound the same up to a certain gain point (before the 1073 2nd? gain circuit kicks in). Any thoughts on this?



Fleaman

I agree with what screws said about the sound of the N72. However, I have always thought it to be a hair brighter than a Neve 1073 pre, but with all the same character. It's a minascule difference, but it's there. The N72 is it's own thing, but it is VERY "Neve-esqe" and totally one of my most regularly used pre's, regardless of what I have to choose from.

As to the TG-2. No, the TG-2 I had was on loan and it was the older model with no impedence switch. I still thought it wonderful with the Royer on every application I tried, include a soft nylon string guitar part. All 3 of the SCA pre's have had plenty of quiet gain for me to use my Royer. It's a pretty regular combination for me.

The contact for the guy in Nashville that is building some of these for Tim is coming along. I am talking to him today, and I just want to make sure he is ok with me posting his information on a public forum like this before I do it.

If he is ok with it, I will post it later today.

Thanks,
Old 11th March 2005
  #35
Lives for gear
It's cool reading this-

I have a basic clone of a N72 (clone of a clone??)- except that the 3rd gain stage is more cloned from 1073 designs- at least that is my understanding. I bought it on ebay, and the guy who made it used parts of the N72 design and parts of the other diy neve things on the net, mine has all sowter trannys and just the 4 IP trannys take about 1/2 of a 2U rack. I got it for 1200 (4 channels) and it has about that much worth of iron in it.

Anyway I think it is interesting reading this because I have used/ rented- 1073 moduals, and used a 24 ch 8088 before- I find mine to be a bit better to my ears. They are a bit brighter and they are creamier. I'm really curious how the SCA stuff compares with the different trannys- but I will probably do 4 and 4 of the other 2 designs in the near future.

I just wanted to chime in here because I've had other engineers tell me that, while they might sound good- "there still not neves"- and they argue that the 1073's I rented where in bad shape. I suppose I don't really care- my nv clones are in good shape and nothing else i've tried (I don't have the same type of budget as steve- yet) can hold a candle to them.

On the other hand I was at a party and I was talking to well known local engineer, and I told him that I was having great luck with my 4 ch neve clone- then he told me he really likes his 8 ch neve clone. I asked him if it was the SCA being the only 8ch neveish thing in one box and he said it was an Oram Octasonic. I was dumbfounded- people will call damn near anything a neve these days. . . . (i just got a behringer ada8000 neve, I just got the new nady neve's LOL)

Also I have to issue an overall thanks to steve- your the man!! I started getting forum advice from you years ago- lets see ditched the MOTU- thanks!!! ditched the opterons THANKS!!! got the NCCH-DL THANKS!!!! Never heard a word of bad advice from this man!

Thanks-

Ryan
Old 11th March 2005
  #36
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Thanks for the kind words Ryan.

Ok... here it is:

The guys name is Rob Wolford, and he is here in the Nashville/Hendersonville area. He is a real cool dude. More of "technical" guy than an "audio" guy, but he put together the first pair of N72's that I ever heard, and they were really great.

He is building SCA pre's with Tims full endorsement, and I believe he is selling them at, or around the same price as the "assembled" cost on the SCA website. You can reach him at this e-mail address:

rob AT robwolford.com

Chances are you might be able to get a much faster delivery of an assembled system through Rob.

Good luck fellas.
Old 11th March 2005
  #37
Hey Steve

It would be a really good idea (and polite of you) to change the above email address to....

rob AT robwolford.com

.. so web bots don't come and collect his email address for spammers.

heh

I would hate to see all our emails get lost in a haze of spam. And THANKS for the address, way cool.
Old 11th March 2005
  #38
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
Hey Steve

It would be a really good idea (and polite of you) to change the above email address to....

rob AT robwolford.com

.. so web bots don't come and collect his email address for spammers.

heh

I would hate to see all our emails get lost in a haze of spam. And THANKS for the address, way cool.

good point.... and done. Thanks.
Old 12th March 2005
  #39
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severe's Avatar
 

Thanks a lot for the info Steve.
Old 31st March 2005
  #40
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Mozart's Avatar
Does anyone received something from them recently? How long does it takes? I have a feeling that it is going to take a while to receive one. I'm thinking to get 2 N72, power supply and BOX.
Old 31st March 2005
  #41
Gear Maniac
 
roughly's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejacky
Hey cryptic,
how do you think the N72 preamps sound for use as stereo Overhead mics over a Drumset? If you could have 2, which of the following would you pick and why:

1. N72
2. J99
3. A12


I have an eight pack (4 a12s, 2 72 , 2 99) and love the a12 for overheads.
Old 31st March 2005
  #42
chikkenguy
Guest
the stuff ive ordered from them recently(twice in the past 4 months) has not taken too long. 2-3 weeks. email them and ask about availability.
Old 4th April 2005
  #43
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elambo's Avatar
They told me three to four weeks. That was about three weeks ago.
Old 4th April 2005
  #44
Gear Nut
 

don't mean to hijack this thread, but does anyone know how feasible it is to add in-line pads and phase reverse to these SCA preamps?
Old 4th April 2005
  #45
Gear Maniac
 
bradb's Avatar
 

There's already a phase reverse on the SCA stuff. If you go to their messageboard I think theres talk of a pad.

I'm loving my A12s and N72s... next up.. J99s

bb
Old 4th April 2005
  #46
chikkenguy
Guest
a pad should not be hard to put in. or you could just make some xlr barrel pads.
Old 4th April 2005
  #47
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Screws's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejacky
don't mean to hijack this thread, but does anyone know how feasible it is to add in-line pads and phase reverse to these SCA preamps?
Phase reverse is already on the cards. You can ask about the pads in Tim's forum and get a direct answer from him. Go to http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm and scroll down the sidebar to "Message Board".

My own solution was to buy an A-Designs ATTY, the advantage being I can use it on the input to pad down the mic voltage, or the output when I want to overdrive the preamp (for the tone) yet back down the level sent to my A to D's,

http://www.adesignsaudio.com/atty.htm
Old 6th April 2005
  #48
Gear Nut
 

good idea screws...if I EVER go with these SCA pre's (they raised prices on the N72's ) the atty looks like a more effective option since I can use them on the output like you mentioned ...it'd be neater if these features could be built in though thumbsup
Old 6th April 2005
  #49
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejacky
good idea screws...if I EVER go with these SCA pre's (they raised prices on the N72's ) the atty looks like a more effective option since I can use them on the output like you mentioned ...it'd be neater if these features could be built in though thumbsup
Of the full kits? What price was it before?

I just looked and the kits seem to be the same price when I looked a few weeks ago.

The assembled N72's look like they might have gone up in price?

Fleaman
Old 6th April 2005
  #50
Gear Nut
 

N72 full kits used to be $299
Old 6th April 2005
  #51
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejacky
N72 full kits used to be $299
Do you know when that changed?

I know it's kinda pointless now, but, I tend to excel in pointless directions heh

Fleaman
Old 6th April 2005
  #52
Gear Nut
 

I'm pretty sure the original N72 price for the full kit started off at $279. But, they've raised their prices over the last few months .
Old 14th April 2005
  #53
Gear Addict
 

since these pres only have mic inputs, is it possible to run line level signals (+4 or -10) into SCA pres? Thanks.
Old 14th April 2005
  #54
chikkenguy
Guest
i just ran some tests on my 6 pack the other day and i dont have what i wrote down right in front of me, but they all have a minimum gain of around 15dB or so (the n72 has a little bit higher min. gain than the other two, or was the the j99?). their clipping points are up around 27-29dBu. if you are feeding a +4 signal into the pres, it may be too much. a -10 signal might work fine. of course you could always pad either of them down.

could anyone tell me what are the considerations of running a line level device that expects to see a higher input impedance into a 1500 ohm mic input?
Old 25th April 2005
  #55
Gear Nut
 

Hey Chickenguy,
THANKS for this very informative information! . I have now aquired enough money according to SCA's old prices to buy the kit configuration I've always wanted...but low and behold sca's raising of the prices now make this out of my reach ...ahh guess it wasn't meant to be. Anyways, it's always interesting to hear everyone else's experiences with them..cheers.
Old 25th April 2005
  #56
Gear Addict
 
seb37000's Avatar
 

These pre's used to be a real bargain but with the price raise its not such a good deal anymore , I'm glad I grabed some befor they raised the price.
Old 25th April 2005
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by seb37000
These pre's used to be a real bargain but with the price raise its not such a good deal anymore , I'm glad I grabed some befor they raised the price.
Hummm.. not so sure I agree with this. I just ordered 7 A12's from SCA 3 days ago and they were $2,432.20 shipped to my door compared to the real deal API 512c pres and a 10 space rack that would come out to $6260 + shipping at Mercenary.

Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Mind you I need to build them myself and I am sure the A12's are not going to sound as much like a real 512 as an actual 512 for the obvious reasons but from everything I have heard the A12s come pretty darn close and they have output attenuation to boot.

I was going to go with an OSA rack and modules but that would have cost at least $3749 or so + shipping, again it comes pre-built and I hear they sound great as well but from a cost standpoint the SCA pres still win out. (For the record I am still going to get an OSA rack with one or two of their pres to check out and fill the rest of the rack with EQ and compression so I think that is an excellent bargain).
Old 25th April 2005
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
bradb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new
and they have output attenuation to boot.
I don't think there is output attenuation... unless you mean the fader knob???




also I thought the price increase only affected the N72s, they went up $24 each.
Old 25th April 2005
  #59
Quote:
I don't think there is output attenuation... unless you mean the fader knob???
Errrr.. yeah a fader knob... that is attenuating the output right? At least it is in my book.

heh

Quote:
also I thought the price increase only affected the N72s, they went up $24 each.
Yep I think that is correct and even $24 higher they still seem like a deal to me.

I just got an email from Tim at SCA and he said they are having a few issues getting some parts for the A12's and they should ship in about 3 weeks. Not bad all in all but I wish it was sooner, I am Jones'n to hear them up close and in person.
Old 25th April 2005
  #60
chikkenguy
Guest
the trim knob on the a12 adjusts the negative feedback on the op amp. does that technically count as output attenuation?

no matter what the case, the attenuation is only 6 db, which could be useful but is not ideal for really having the flexibility to drive the output in different situations. for me, it is more useful for matching levels between different mics or mic placements.

the n72 has full output attenuation, although im not totally sure if it really acts as an actual voltage divider attenuator or what. i need to look over those ba 238 schematics some more. they are much more complicated than the other two mic pres. but they will attenuate the output most or all of the way.
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