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What's Hi-end these days? I'm not seeing it here. Consoles
Old 14th December 2002
  #1
Harmless Wacko
 

What's Hi-end these days? I'm not seeing it here.

.....
Old 14th December 2002
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

You are a freak.........

You should practice what you preach. Don't write a post about the lack of "high end" gear and then suggest we talk about :

how Sandy at Terminal threw us under the bus.

Rent or buy in NYC or other large markets.

Labels that suck.

Labels that REALLY suck.

Employee theft issues.

The value/liability of a 'hot' receptionist.

Rental fiascos or triumphs.

The return of the 'Cult of personality shop'.

'Sound Hotels' The beginning of the end?
dfegad

You need to go and lie down and relax for a while. To top it of, I use a CS2000/3000 - makes it even funnier doesn't it!
Old 14th December 2002
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
800 vs. 827. Sonics and Practicality.
I'm intereseted in this topic as I want to buy one - and really need to know the big differences.

I've seen both of these machines for sale at ProAudioDesign used. At prices that I'd reasonably consider - about $22,000 (they were 35,000 earlier)

http://www.proaudiodesign.com/morein...3?ItemID=I3001
http://www.proaudiodesign.com/morein...3?ItemID=I2222

Are these prices reasonble sounding to you?
How afraid should I be shipping these across the country? none I hope.Which should I buy and why?
I'd be more interested in the one which is more reliable and easier to maintain as long as there weren't big minuses. That's why I haven't bought more affordable machines I've seen locally. Yes - I've worked on 2" some - but never owned one.

Or Maybe I should scrap the idea and get a 1" 2track like this :
http://www.atrservice.com/atr/onetwo.htm

Of course both would be nice.

My primary recording medium is currently ProTools HD - and I don't care what you think about that. tut
Old 14th December 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

a very warm welcome to you Slipperman ..... I'll be looking foreward reading your posts out here. You sure sound like you have a lot to share / tell / teach us.

It is clear to me that you talk high end from a mothership kinda studio perspective. Surely you don't mean or think that those are the only ones representative for what high end stands for do you?
Old 14th December 2002
  #5
What up Slipp? Good to see you over here.

I think there should be more talk about Crane Song, Sontec, and custom built, cost-is-no-pbject EQs as well...

Maybe a little discussion over highly modded Studer A80 1/2"?

Hit me.
Old 14th December 2002
  #6
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

in fact of english isnt my mother tongue i am not really getting if you are ironic or serious ???

anyway , i am not able to talk about your interrests ... thats science fiction for me . i just know that a lot of the " BIG " studios are going down to chinatown . i am really interrested in music and how to make it better . ( gear is a option , but not really the most important imho ) . i love the people inside of here , they are all sharing their interrests . if this would be a pub around my corner i would be there EVERY night . i have not studied physics or electronics , so "pure theory" is hard to understand .

anyway WELCOME to the gearslutz and HI from here .

tell me what you did muscialwise and i may have 10000000000000000000000000 questions

i never heard from a musician or a studioguru i looked up to
" well , as far as i am concerned , you suck "

[ and its got nothing to do with honesty ] heh
Old 14th December 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
What up Slipp? Good to see you over here.

I think there should be more talk about Crane Song, Sontec, and custom built, cost-is-no-pbject EQs as well...

Maybe a little discussion over highly modded Studer A80 1/2"?

Hit me.
Brad . . . we will start a "Great Gear Needing Repair" thread for all Sontec discussions.
Old 14th December 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
My point was only that I know there HAS to be a community of fellows with internet access that are in a similar ship to me. Or at least share some common problems, have some common questions or concerns. I'd like to find and converse with those folks about this stuff if they're willing. I'm also happy to talk about anything that I can lend a hand on regarding audio and audio equipment. I own and operate a fairly good sized shop. It's my passion.

I Love music. I Make records. It's what I do. Coming up on 2 decades of it. Don't claim to know it all. I JUST WANT TO FIND IT ALL OUT. HOHO.
SM.
Slipperman . . . when do you and some of the other guys at Pro Sound have time to ACTUALLY work in a studio? You seem to be posting constantly.

You were bashing Gearslutz over there (I know it's all in fun, that's cool) now here you are and you want us to "HELP" you?
lol!

Don't bull**** bull****ters!!
*smile*

I'm seriously curious, when do you find the time to post all that long winded **** . . . . AND find time to be in a studio? You got longer days or type awfully frikkin' fast.

Good to have you around, but what you may find here is . . . . some of us found Gearslutz and the people here, and the way it is run . . works for us. Some of us left PSW and came here for that reason. Neither is right or wrong, nor are the people right or wrong. We don't give a **** to make this PS II. . . . it's just a different place. Hope this place works out for you too!
Old 14th December 2002
  #9
Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
Due to my horrific rep as a major troublemaker at RecPit you know I studiuosly avoid 'Polluting' your forum.
Tis OK - I'd just delete you if you went over the line...

heehee

Quote:
I am a MAJOR Sontec fan. I just don't own one. YET. HaHa. Harder to find used these days.....
Indeed. Burgess kinda ran the company into the ground, but I won't part with mine for anything. And in all the years I've owned it, not one line amp has gone out (the supposed weakness of the Sontec).

Quote:
In digi-land. The Weiss 7 band 'Gambit' slays me. I love the speed/ease of use/touchsense/recall stuff. Was not so enamored of the Z-sys unit.
I couldn't stand the Z-sys as it sounded like dig EQ. Weiss stuff is fine, but I'll stick with the Sontec/Crane Song Ibis (I am biased towards the Ibis as I worked with Dave on it...).

Quote:
I've got a GML8200 for mix and I like that just fine. Do you ever use those in your shop? Probably not so much of an 'A' call mastering device huh? Or no? I'm also going to try out the 'Massive Passive' ASAP and I may get hurt on that. Eek.
The GML always had a kinda 'etched' top to me - sounded like it added top end even when 'zeroed'...

Now that Manley's offering a 'detented' version of the MP, I might join you in that. Good 'color' unit, but I certainly wouldn't want it as my only stereo buss EQ.

Quote:
I'm a ATR102 guy and I'm not that up to speed on the A80's from a day to day standpoint.
I've never understood that, really. Everyone likes the ATR machines due to their superior electronics, but the Studer tape transport kills the ATR. The best machines I've ever heard are A80's with ATR repro...

Quote:
My buddy Al has one that sounds AMAZING. He in mastering like you. I wonder if his is hot-rodded. I'll ask him. I should get him on here actually...
Mine is actually 1 of 2 built for Kendun in '79. An A80 transport with highly modded PSU and 800 repro path. All done by Studer and pretty much mint.

It's very nice...

Quote:
Have you heard MACHINE HEAD(Spl)? How about 'Tube Vitalizer'? Big Al has one of those, LOVES it. I run screaming. Funny. Gotta love the subjectivity of audio!
Ugh. Hate 'em. Get some HEDD (3 knob variety) and you'll never look back...
Old 14th December 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 

hi end rant

OK, I give up, what's a "Sound Hotel"? and why do they spell doom for the industry?


Steve
[email protected]
Old 14th December 2002
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Hey Slipperman,

Thanks for your gracious response. You are right I have only had a few posts. I have been over at another forum for a while and have been reading these pages for the last month or so. I have lots of nice high end toys myself and like you I earn a living from making music. But I think that just as you would like to talk about, for example "labels that suck" or a "hot receptionist", if someone wishes to discuss the best "DI" they should be happily embraced. Which one is more high end, the DI or the labels that suck? I certainly am not objecting to discussing more "high end gear" on these pages, but you will appreciate that a lot of your topics weren't really that high end now were they!

You are kind of contradicting yourself. You ask if I don't think your non-equipment related topics should be discussed here or do not have an impact on studios. Sure they do, but so does a sans amp or a boss DI. Or maybe you don't personally see the benefit of using that kind of equipment to make creative records? Lots of great producers use lots of crappy gear along with expensive equipment to create hits. Should these things not be discussed here any less than your "hot receptionist"?

Also if people are dicussing CS2000/3000's but you happen not to like them, well don't read the posts. To say Euphonix consoles aren't high end is a bit silly !

Peace to you and happy hollidays.
Old 14th December 2002
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Sound Hotel is my little nickname for the common model of large scale studio in the US for the last 20 years.
I thought a Sound Hotel was one of those Over-equipped (of course I would over-equip if I could too) studios that is way out in the country that features plush artist cabins and swimming pools and personal chefs and is rented out by the month to people like David Bowie. Like a "destination resort studio".

I like the COP route - and that's what I do - sort of.
Old 14th December 2002
  #13
2 of the high end moderators are out of range of net access presently, Jon (skiing?) Michael Wagener - at the Surround Conference LA.

Just start topics and see how they develop.

It will work out..

Old 14th December 2002
  #14
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Hey SM .... do you have / still have your own place / recording studio ? if so, where / what / .... just curious.
Old 15th December 2002
  #15
Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
Hello Jules!

Heck. Why wait for those guys? They can chip in later if they're so inclined.

How about you?

You're a 'Cult of Personality' guy, right? (That always sounds wrong as a question! HOHO).

I mean, folks come to you for your work, not the 'shop equipment list', huh?

Have you started to see a trend moving back towards 'settling into one place' for known working AE's? Instead of the 'bounce all over' stuff that became the norm in the last 15 years(at least from my perspective).

Am I crazy? Is there now, or has their ever been, such a trend(s)?

Thanx for posting.

Cheers.

SM.
Hey Slipperman,

Welcome. Like I always say the more "New Yawkers" the better.heh

I think the trend is happening for two fold:

1)The budget to cut a record has been downsized tremendously. Nowadays the budget for the music video far out weighs the budget to make the record(maybe that explains why so many recordings sound unfinished).

2) Most of the major mixers all have a"home"- Bob Clearmountain(Mix This),CLA and TLA(Cali and South beach studios), JJP(Oceanway),Spike Stent(Olympic),Dave Pensado(Enterprise and Larabee) Mick Guzuaski(BK) etc; I think in the beginning it was a rush to hop and skip all over the globe doing sessions, but as you get older(and fatter if you look at some of these guys pictures), I think to be in one place you know and get treated well by studio management is crucial.

I recently went for a little tour at the new Right Track building(38st between 10th and 11av). I got an invitation from one of the managers there to see the place and see if i wanted to bring some of my international clients(I was thinking yeah right. I don't track anymore and a studio is a studio...blah,blah). Just another waste of NYC real Estate.

Man was i surprised. Very impressive. Beautiful design and such. It made me think if places like this are still being built, then the music industry is still in demand for it. I personally would not open a "sound Motel" especially here, unless I had maybe 10 million and I could buy the real estate with it. To risky right now.

Plus who wants to do Hiphop all day!!!heh

That's basically what drives the studio scene here.
Old 15th December 2002
  #16
Answer and observations:

You're a 'Cult of Personality' guy, right?

**Producer/private studio owner - that gets work by reputation & my own scouting at venues... yes.

**I mean, folks come to you for your work, not the 'shop equipment list', huh?

**Yes, but once they get here for a meeting, they DO like the 'look' of all the gear and dig my passion for showing it.

Have you started to see a trend moving back towards 'settling into one place' for known working AE's? Instead of the 'bounce all over' stuff that became the norm in the last 15 years(at least from my perspective).

**All engineers I know have or are getting a DAW. This has empowered them to work from a) home b) wherever. Many feel that THEY should finally be able to tinker with the sessions computer and not just leave it to 'the kid'. Having a DAW give's them an 'own place' even if that's just the corner of their living room - times are HARD. Most of the the freelancers I hang with cant afford their own 'home base' studio seperate from thier homes..

Your phrase "known working AE's" Hmmmm see above, but I DO know several who have their OWN studios.. I just don't hang out with em!

David Grays producer - mini own base studio
Smiths ex engineer - Kenny Jones - mini own base studio
Pro tools engineers I know - mini own base studio
Me - mini own base studio
Old 15th December 2002
  #17
What is noteworthy is that all I list above including the DAW in the corner of the living room guys, have a legasy of 'high end' studio experience and will be doing all in their power to out put work from home or the corner of the living room, that is of a professional standard.
Old 16th December 2002
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman
It is indeed the toughest it's been since I started in this(early 80's). At least that's what I'm seeing/feeling.

I'm got a bunch of theories on what has happened, is happening and is gonna happen. But I'll spare us all that long winded tom-foolery until I collect some more info/opinions here.
SM . . . it's rough here too. I don't do rap or hip hop. . . . it's a choice. I built a great 'live' tracking room in a city that is majority hip hop / rap . . . . sad to say. I'm sure if I opened my doors and pushed this place as a great rap room / bought a MPC, a huge Pro Tools rig and went that route I could boost my business by 75%. For many reasons . . . . it's not my thing.

The thing that kills me is, these independent bands that have no deal, want and need to record, have a good live following . . . . . 5 guys in the band and NONE of them have a job, much less any money. Rap / hip hop guys want to record. . . they walk in with a wad of dough!! (No it's not all drug money) . . . . I just don't want to do rap.

I came out of NYC some years back . . . . still have part of my business there, as well as my heart, mind and soul. I have been here a good while, but still feel like "I am visiting from NYC". I will move back one day, but have sickness in the family here. I had a bad drug, drink problem I had to take care of (11 years clean), a sick Mom here, had to take care of her for some VERY rough years (Alzheimers) . . she passed away, now have an 86 year old father with cancer and a heart condition. Divorced . . . my ex wife couldn't handle it (don't blame her). On and on. Not complaining, just filling you in. And this is just the tip of the ice berg of **** that has gone down. No big deal . . . just , is the way it is.

I had to make a decision, so I built this place . . . . and glad I did in many ways. Though it is not the city I want to be in. Ninety thousand dollars in 'build out' later . . . . .

My point to all this rambling is . . . . the business has changed much and being an older guy, I have some decisions I have to make fairly soon. I have never done anything my whole life but this business, in different aspects. Now . . . a place like mine that should be charging double what I am charging . . . has to compete with people with computer based studios in homes in an 'add on' square room in the basement, charging $20 an hour. Not because they can get the job done as well btw . . . . but because people don't know any better.

btw . . I don't mean some of you guys here that have MAJOR investments in time and gear and know what you are doing.

Many don't care anymore or younger groups looking to record don't realize how important a nicely built room is, or to sing through a $5000 mic into $4000 worth of mic pre / eqs . . . . . all they want to know is . . . . "you have Pro Tools?" . . . . "Autotune?" . . . it's sad.

So . . . . I can tell clients that call about the great rack of APIs, mics, Neves, Tube Techs, all the great ****, the great room, drum room with rock wall, 3 iso rooms, etc . . . . . I could be talking Chinese to some of them! All they want is . . . ."Pro Tools" cause that's THE catch word. They don't really know what it does, they just know to ask for it.

Man if I wanted Pro Tools . . I would have it! I don't! (there is a rental rig available here) I track bands that want to play instruments, kick ass through cool old / new **** and go to tape! That's what I do! And I dig it! I don't want to look at a monitor all day and move a damn mouse or talk about some software plug-in. For someone that does . . more power to you! that's great!! Honestly!

So . . . how do studios make a living that have major investments? I know an engineer that charges more to simply walk in and run Pro Tools rigs, then I end up charging some people JUST for the studio!!!! He has NO investment! Of course he is doing some major acts.

I busted my ass to build a nice place . . . . and it really is! People come here because they love this place, the vibe / atmosphere, the gear and sound they get. Though you hear more and more these young cats calling up that don't know what to ask except . . . . "you got Pro Tools?"

It's funny though . . .how many guys I get in that re-track stuff they did in some of those small rooms because "something is missing" and "this cat would sit there staring at the computer for hours moving **** around until we hated the way it felt and sounded . . . . now we just want to track it to tape, live"

The future could be interesting . . .I'm seeing a back lash of sorts to all the digital / computer stuff by those that know . . . but the more young people come up, the more it will be all they know AND I'm sure these companies WILL get it better as time goes on.

Until then . . . . studios like this and others . . . keep chugging I guess, as there will be a need for the professionals that appreciate them. It IS getting tough though.
Old 16th December 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Great post Knox .... realy great post. Only one thing. There are plenty of 'ProTools' guys out there who do care about the same stuff you care about. It is not because you work with PT that you don't care about vibe etc etc .... there are plenty of us who buy and use EVERYTHING your kind of studio has except for a large console and tape. We do look for the best pre's / eq's / dynamics / verbs / fx / mics ..... etc etc and we still try to build great sounding recording rooms. And the kind of music you do has little or nothing to do with the medium.

Investment wise you do have a point. all my gear in the studio together is probably less then a brand new SSL alone and I charge probably almost as much or sometimes even more then some studio's that do have them that I know. I don't have apropriate answers to that subject but this one little argument. Rate and payements are market dependent. To book a singer that has made it is A LOT LOT more expensive then booking one that is virtually unknown right .... does that make the last a worse singer by definition then the first one ? Hell no.
Old 16th December 2002
  #20
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
The future could be interesting . . .I'm seeing a back lash of sorts to all the digital / computer stuff by those that know . . . but the more young people come up, the more it will be all they know AND I'm sure these companies WILL get it better as time goes on.

Until then . . . . studios like this and others . . . keep chugging I guess, as there will be a need for the professionals that appreciate them. It IS getting tough though.
the problem im afraid isnt as simple as people using DAW's as to why its getting tough these days. im afraid it has to do more with the music rather than the gear. its rare i get a band that inspires ME to record them at a higher level. its rare that i go out and see a band that inspires me to go up to ask them to record. its getting so bad i have been contemplating selling all my **** and saying **** the bull****.... but we know that wont happen so now i am looking down other streams for revenue.

you should really reply if they ask if you have pro tools, "yeah, im a pro and got plenty of tools"... this whole pro tools thing is as bad as people owning an SSL on the analog side. they dont buy it for sonics, they buy it for name recognition.


as for "high end" gear, plugins, cheap gear... none of that matters as much as the person setting it all up... a plugin WILL sound better set by a person who knows what they are listening for VS. an amateur setting up analog outboard. its really just personal preferences and work methods. if you like working on a LFB and tape then great, or you like staring at a computer screen and pushing a mouse around, great. i dont care either way if i got a great band in the live room [and a great set of monitors ]
Old 16th December 2002
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
Great post Knox .... realy great post. Only one thing. There are plenty of 'ProTools' guys out there who do care about the same stuff you care about.
Chris . . as I said in my post, I'm not talking about guys like yourself and many here that have high end stuff, long experience and doing solid / valid / great work. Many of you have more gear then I have.

Also, I am not a HIGH END "boutique" type studio in the least. I am in the middle ground somewhere, which is a strange place to be. My rates cannot go up to the place they need to be due to the places I speak . . . . also, the HIGH END rooms are giving studio time to people at super cheap rates, because many of them are hurting as well or either they are giving super low rates during down time.

It sounds like I'm bitching and I don't mean for it to, because it's all a hustle isn't it?
Old 16th December 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
the problem im afraid isnt as simple as people using DAW's as to why its getting tough these days. im afraid it has to do more with the music rather than the gear. its rare i get a band that inspires ME to record them at a higher level. its rare that i go out and see a band that inspires me to go up to ask them to record. its getting so bad i have been contemplating selling all my **** and saying **** the bull****.... but we know that wont happen so now i am looking down other streams for revenue.

as for "high end" gear, plugins, cheap gear... none of that matters as much as the person setting it all up... a plugin WILL sound better set by a person who knows what they are listening for VS. an amateur setting up analog outboard. its really just personal preferences and work methods. if you like working on a LFB and tape then great, or you like staring at a computer screen and pushing a mouse around, great. i dont care either way if i got a great band in the live room [and a great set of monitors ]
Alpha . . my post had nothing to do with whether one is better then the other . . . . I was talking about the guys with a Digi 001 (or something similar), a boot copy of Pro Tools (or the like) and some boot plug ins . . . . a couple of Audio Technica mics, . . . . . they don't know what they are doing, but charging rates.

I will say that these computer based digital recorders have made it easier for a zillion of these small studios to open up everywhere. Hell, who doesn't have a PC in house? Add the software I was talking about . . . . and the guy that knew 2 guitar chords when he was a kid, is now thinking he is a recording studio. Runs some ads in the trendy local paper.

That same guy would NEVER have opened a studio if he had to build a room, buy a tape machine and all the appropriate gear, cabling, etc. Computers have made it easier for people to do this.

As far as bands . . . . . Man I am REALLY with you on that. In the old days I would find bands to record on my down time for free just because I loved what I was doing, and loved the music. Hardly ever happens anymore.
Old 16th December 2002
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by slipperman


Knox, yer gonna get a laugh out of this but, I'm actually WORKING here tonight. So I'm just gonna say. I'LL BE BACK.

I'll try to post way later tonight if I can make it happen.
I'd have to actually SEE you work to believe it!
heh
Old 16th December 2002
  #24
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i lost a project this past year to someone who doesnt know what they are doing and didnt charge them ANYTHING... thats even more insulting.
Old 16th December 2002
  #25
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Hang in there Knox! I sincerely believe that music will swing back to being performance-centric as opposed to production-centric. I think this is true simply because great performances will be the only thing that can stand out from the sea of overproduced mediocrity that has resulted from the rapid decline in the cost of production. Production as an end in itself must fail financially because we all only buy entertainment that we consider to be exceptional. This came crashing home to me the first time I saw a kid putting a track together in Acid. There is no longer any need to pay for competent but mediocre music. The bar for music that can earn a living has been raised dramatically by the "home studio revolution."
Old 16th December 2002
  #26
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Hi guys

Sorry, for joining this party a little late, but I just got back from the Surround Conference in LA. (great show by the way)

Slipperman, welcome to the forum.

As you guys might know, I made myself a name for producing/engineering a certain genre of music (Hard Rock, Heavy Metal). I was fairly successful and had some great years doing $ 400,000 - $ 600,000 projects. In the early 90s the music style went into a different direction and budgets for the music projects that I liked went from $ 600,000 down to $ 30,000. In order to still be able to do projects the way I wanted to, I had to get my own studio. I didn't to go into a studio at $ 2,000 /day and having to be done in 15 days with no money left over for myself. Fortunately I was lucky enough to be able to sink about a 1/2 million into WireWorld and made it my new home. It's not for rent, just for my stuff, so that qualifies it as a project studio. I don't have a larger frame console (and don't want one either), but ALL the other equipment is at least equal in quality to that in "high end" studios, the fruit basket included.

As a producer/engineer, for the kind of music I like to do, having my own place is the ONLY way I can still make a great record and be satisfied with the result, and have a happy client when he walks out the door with the final master (and probably back in for the next project). Do I need the headache that comes with running my own studio, no, not at all. I would be just as happy to go into a nicely equipped room and have them worry about running the place, but budgets, at least at this time, don't allow for it. Nobody understands the term "producer's advance" anymore (well, maybe the big guys do), but everybody understands the term "studio rate", so that is where I make my "front end" money.

The difference between most of the "studio-for-rent" owners and me with my "project studio" is, I am able to only buy exactly the equipment that I want to work with and not because it's the latest, hottest thing. I don't have to have protools, because the clients come to me for my work and not for the gear in the studio. As long as they get the results they expect, they don't care how I get there.

I'm absolutely with Knox, in sticking with the kind of music I like to do and that I can contribute to, no rap or hip-hop done at my place (and no country either for that matter) and if you want to make a record in one day, cut and paste style, go find another garage. What we are selling is emotions, so I have to at least like the music I work on so I can be emotional about it.

As I mentioned above, I just came back from LA and hearing from studio owners there, the "high end" studio business is in a lot of trouble. Same here in Nashville, big studios going out of business left and right. Whose fault is that?
The label, not wanting to invest in an artist anymore and develop a band over the course of a few records?
The producers/engineers, based on smaller budgets, not being able to go into high-end studios anymore, and looking for other ways to record (like me)?
The equipment manufacturers, by inventing gear that can provide quality recordings for little money.
Joe Blow, who thinks he can make a quality recording in his bedroom with that cheap equipment and no experience in recording whatsoever?
The artist, who thinks Joe Blow is the sh*t, because he can fix anything that the artist can't perform well.
Or is it the accountant at the label, thinking that their odds are way better with ten projects for $30,000 than one project for $300,000 and after getting lucky with one of the $30,000 projects, feel that they were right to do it that way?
All those things nag at the existence of the high end studio.

I don't know where the problem is or what has changed so drastically from before. In 2000 I decided to set up my studio in a way, so I can record and mix in surround, thinking that the labels would go for that format, because it's a lot harder to download to an MP3 (and after attending the Surround Conference this weekend, it seems to me that there is at least a little truth in that theory). Time will tell. Meanwhile I'm able to do what I like most, record and mix music to the best of my ability, even if it's in one of those hated project studios.

Old 16th December 2002
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i lost a project this past year to someone who doesnt know what they are doing and didnt charge them ANYTHING... thats even more insulting.
Yea that bites . . . I have had that happen several times. Different ways but they are always along the lines of . . . . . .

In the middle of recording some band, all of a sudden it is brought to your attention that . . . . "our bass players brother in law just bought a new PC and someone gave him a copy of (fill in the blank recording software) and he has a big basement, so we are going to finish up here and go finish our cd over there, as he won't charge us a anything. So we won't need next weeks session!"

DOH!!
Old 16th December 2002
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener
Hi guys

Sorry, for joining this party a little late, but I just got back from the Surround Conference in LA. (great show by the way)
Glad you are back . . . .

The funny thing is . . . . I NEVER wanted to be a studio for hire. My studio has always been for my production company and my production deals. BUT . . . the old John Lennon line came into play . . . . "life is what happens while you are busy making other plans!"

As Alpha said . . . . I wasn't finding bands / artists that I wanted to sign to my production company any more. I'm still not! Plus, with all the personal stuff going on . . . I didn't / don't have the same amount of time and head space to give right now. I'm getting it back though . . if i could find an artist or some act to get behind. . . . but I HAVE to REALLY like them and like what they are doing.

I think we all know, no one is ever going to get rich booking studio time. It's songwriting / publishing, finding acts, production deal, etc. that will allow us to make real money.
Old 16th December 2002
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Hang in there Knox! I sincerely believe that music will swing back to being performance-centric as opposed to production-centric. I think this is true simply because great performances will be the only thing that can stand out from the sea of overproduced mediocrity that has resulted from the rapid decline in the cost of production. Production as an end in itself must fail financially because we all only buy entertainment that we consider to be exceptional. This came crashing home to me the first time I saw a kid putting a track together in Acid. There is no longer any need to pay for competent but mediocre music. The bar for music that can earn a living has been raised dramatically by the "home studio revolution."
Thanks Bob! Good to get your input, as always.
Old 16th December 2002
  #30
Lives for gear
I've never been in the high end/deep end of the pool but have been running a modest studio business out of my home for 12 years and have noticed some constants. This is simple **** but I'm thinking about making out a form so I read this to myself as a type of self therapy:
There have always been and will always be People who:

Book studio time and have no intention of showing up
Ask for a studio tour and have no money in their pockets
think your rate is too high and ask you about how to find your competition!
Will record for less, with less gear and lesser results and they will be around, well less and less
will record people for free cause they work at a bank and make the money so can do it for free, what it's worth
People who love music and are trying to get in any way they can so they record with what they can afford.

Ok, theres lots more but the point is there are lots of types of people just trying to do their musical thing and OUR INNer Dialog ain't gonna stop em, so just admit they ain't goin away!
So you just gotta have fun and do your thing and you will win
Did I type all that out loud? I gotta go to bed
PEace
Daniel
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