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anyone using 1622's with your protools If so why?
Old 13th December 2002
no ssl yet 
anyone using 1622's with your protools If so why?

I just borrowed a 1622 from a friend. As most of you probably know I am looking to upgrade my Mix system converters from my TC finalizer plus to something better. I have this 1622 for free (my friend had it thrown in a closet so he'll probably never ask for it)

I'm thinking Why would anyone want to buy 20bit converters in this day and age? Is it because most keyboard sounds are 16bit? Is there any solid purpose to having this thing besides having inputs to ptools when your others run out?

I'm considering buying a few 160xt's (if I can find em) and compressing before going to ptools. Hearing 16 sounds at once going in will really help this process if the converter quality is good.

Does this piece kill my need for an AD16? Can I now get by with only a high quality 2 channel converter for vocals and instrument overdubs? Will this be good enough for my synths and drum machines or am I fooling myself?

Also while I'm at it

Anyone know the difference between a dbx 160, 160xt, and 160a?
Old 13th December 2002
Lives for gear
e-cue's Avatar

I used to use the one to trigger my F16 or occasional a send to key an external gate. Since everything was usually split on an SSL, the A/D conversion delay was consistant with the rest of the audio tracks. Any tracks that I Lo Fi for grit (Mults of individual drums are a good example) could also be sent out of these outs.
Old 13th December 2002
Lives for gear
digiman's Avatar
no ssl,

From your previous posts, it sounds like you're recording needs are pretty specific for tracking and mixing synths, samplers, and the like. Let me guess, you must be doing urban hip hop/r&b stuff. Join the club. I also dibble and dabble is the genre from a production/recording standpoint and have also faced similar challenges that you are currently facing. Let me first of all say that you are definitely at the right place for knowlege, information, and education. A lot of times you'll hear "its not about the equipment, its about knowing what to do with it" as a typical response to some of your questions. Well, while I believe that to be true, part of the education process it learning what equipment you need to get the results you are looking for. In addition, one thing that is unique to the style of music you are recording is the fact that most of your tracks are recorded direct, as opposed to being mic'd. That fact, in and of itself it what our recording need different from the traditional engineer who primarily records mic'd instruments in a band situation.

That said, let me lend a few words of limited wisdom and experience...
Can you tell me again what it is you are trying to ultimately acheive, again?

If I understand you correctly you want to ....
1. upgrade the convertors to you Protools Mix system from the TC Finalizer to something with a higher bit rate and more channels.

Are you currently tracking two tracks at a time and syncing you sequencer to protools for overdubbs/midi dumps?

Is the objective to get more channels so you wont have to make so many passes during the midi tracking?

2. You want the 160XT's for compression before you go into protools?

What specific instruments do you need to compress going before going into protools.

If you could give me a little more info, I may be able to help out and save you some loot on gear that you don't really need.
Old 13th December 2002
no ssl yet 
Man for me it's not about the number of passes I have to make. Also forget my dbx part of the equation for a second. I simply want to improve my front end from the 24 bit finalizer that I'm using now. Many people here know that the finalizer can sound boxy for lack of a better term. Since I have this 1622 here for free I'm asking why people bought them. Woudl these converters be good enough for keys and drum machines? (since they are 16bit signals)
If so I could save money and purchase something like a Rosetta 48k

I'm beginning to port all of my MPC sounds to Sample Cell to avoid the extra D to A conversion process. My thinking is if all of my other converters are not good surely the ones on the MPC that cost $250 for 8 outs can't be the greatest LOL
Old 13th December 2002
Lives for gear
digiman's Avatar
Get the Rosetta, it'll make all the difference in the world. Even though your are recording 16bit signals from synths and samplers, you are going to get more recording headroom with a 24bit convertor and consequently better sound. The Rosetta in particular has a pretty good dynamic range of 120db, so thats plenty for what you want to do.

And about the MPC, which unit do you have? What will converting to Sample Cell do for you in terms of conversion? Why don't you just use the analog outs on the MPC instead of the digital ones? You are right about the quality of the convertors on the MPC.
Old 13th December 2002
no ssl yet 
So I still don't understand the purpose of a 1622

How much better are the converters on the Rosetta compared to the Finalizer plus (the one with 24 bit converters)?

digi, I save sounds from my MPC2000xl in 16bit wave files. Put those files on disk into the conputer in Soft Sample Cell. then go Direct connect to ptools.
This avoids the conversion stage from D to A in the Drum machine and from A to D into protools
Old 13th December 2002
Lives for gear
digiman's Avatar
Dont get me wrong the 1622 is a good unit. It still cannot stand up to a Rosetta in terms of sound quality. It is a "prosumer" unit at best, marketed for home and project studio owner, not professional commercial studios. It is a midlevel unit that allow you to get alot of inputs into Protools for a lower price. Bottom line....I'd pass on it. Especially, if you're main concern is you initial signal chain. If you were one of those guys who basically didn't care how it was tracked, but wanted to wait till later to fix it in the mix, I'd say the 1622 was OK. Since you want the best you signal you can get on the way in, go with the Rosetta.

As far as the converter on the Finalizer goes, I'd still say the Rosetta was better. The Rosetta is an A/D unit (and a good one at that )and that's all it does. The Finalizer is a mastering unit, AD converter, DA Converter, and blow dryer all in one. Suffice it to say, that since this is considered a mastering unit, as opposed to a tracking unit, the AD converters are probably going to be just average in comparison to the Rosetta.
Old 13th December 2002
no ssl yet 
I've actually been holding of to see if I can get my hands on some of the Studer Adats. I have some friends who have gone ptools and never touch their studer adats. (I figure the converters were probably pretty good)
Again I can borrow them or buy them for little of nothing. The only thing about borrowing gear from my friends is as soon as I get used to it they figure "If he wants it then it must be worth something" That's when they return for it

Or even worse I'd have it for years and then they'll want to borrow something else that I really don't want to loan but I have to because we have that type arrangement (And I started it)

I guess the 1622 can be used for FFx returns or something
Old 13th December 2002
no ssl yet 
If I can't get the Studers (2 one for in and one for outs)
I will go Apogee AD and probably a DA16 (I'm sure I can probably get a deal if I go to my dealer and get both)
Old 14th December 2002
no ssl yet 
Digiman you asked which MPC I used. I have at one point or another owned all of them except the 4000 and original 2000

I can say that they all are about the same. I have friends with the 4000's but It's hard for me to justify spending that much for 24bit sampling when I can just drop 24 bit samples in Sample Cell

Plus If I buy some Apogee converters then my Sample's have an Apogee front end.
Old 14th December 2002
Lives for gear
5down1up's Avatar

i would like the differences as well <DBX> ???

no ssl ,

there are some akai sounds you cant convert , i mean you can , but those filter settings are defenately undoable for a sample cell . the mpc 2000 is great , just in fact of a/d conversion ... nahhhh , keep the samples in the "box" . imho the akai converters sound " great " and the akai timing is unbeatable .
so why drop it ??? i like the sounds of different gear . its most times boring if " anything " comes out of the computer .

the 1622 is made for having line inputs for protools . 16 ins thats a cool option . can you add plugins on those channels as well ???
if yes , cool . 20 bit ??? thats enough , sure . i have some fx gear thats 16 bit ( ams , eventide ) and i just can say ... what a sound compared to some 24 bit 96 khz stuff .
i remember studer was building preamps with 21 bit conversion .
i asked em why , they said " who needs 24 bits ??? " heh

ive heard those studer adats and they sound just great , if you can get em cheap , get em . hope you dont throw your computer out of your window

i am pleased with the 888/24 , i sold my 882/16 they were crap .
i played around with a clocking device and that helped a lot , too .
but same thing , you dont hear it if you dont have one .
i dont have one as well . a friend of mines running in his studio 882/20 with tons of outboard gear . damn it sounds good .
the only thing i dont like that much about digital , is the lack of the low end . with anything else i am pretty lucky and i enjoy the sound that come out of my speakers every day , even if i didnt spend a million bucks .

good luck
Old 14th December 2002
no ssl yet 
5 down I only want the studer adats for the converters. I never plan to record to adat again in life LOL

As far as the MPC you have a point about the filters. But even if I drop sounds in SSC I will still be sequencing on the MPC

You raise a point though It's not that important to have purity

Hit records have been made on black adats and they surely didn't have the best converters
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