The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Can you over tube something???
Old 24th June 2002
  #1
Gear Head
 

Can you over tube something???

Just realised that my current recording chain has stacks and stacks of tubey dooby do gear in it. Is there such a thing as overdoing the tube....

ie M149 tubey #1
millenia/737 tubey #2
Summit tube levelar (just got one in to try out) #3
EQP 200B pultec type EQ tubey #4

or is the simple anwer, it it sounds right then its right apply here???


BTW Jules love the icons..

Old 24th June 2002
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
vsl666's Avatar
 

2 many tubes ?!

:eek:
2 many tubes ??!

dont be daffy

tut rollz

yes to the sound right is right
Old 24th June 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Wow, that doesn't just sound "Mushey"??? I know some many engineers that call gear "warm" when it's really just "dull"...
Old 24th June 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Tim L's Avatar
 

Re: Can you over tube something???

Quote:
Originally posted by lnd
... or is the simple anwer, it it sounds right then its right apply here???
I think you'd be hard pressed to find better advice than this...
Old 24th June 2002
  #5
Gear Addict
 

The biggest problems tend to be when the tubes are used for warmth/distortion/apocolyptic-grunge-sound, but in good designs, when tubes are just used for clean gain, they tend not to mush out badly. Build up in piece after piece of mild amounts of it could lead to trouble, but if it sounds fine, don't sweat it.

Bear
Old 24th June 2002
  #6
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
trust your ears
Old 24th June 2002
  #7
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
You can't necessarily "overtube" something... but you can kill it by running through a bazillion badly designed boxes with glowy things inside. Not all boxes with "toobs" are designed all that well... some can be called 'specialty units', or 'character units'... but they aren't really for everyday use.

With good designs, good components, etc.... it really doens't matter all that much if the thing has 'glowies' in it or not... as evidenced by the Millennia stuff [where if you don't change the tube to some kinda NOS Telefunken tube, chances are you won't be able to tell the difference in signal paths].

My advice is not to worry about how they built the motor... worry about how the vehicle handles the tasks it's asked to handle... and stay the hell out of 'guitar mart'... that place will rot your mind.
Old 4th July 2002
  #8
Gear Head
 

We got really yummy results recording a male baritone (rock/pop) with a GrooveTubes MD-3 mic (love 'em, the "Harley Davidson" of mics) thru an Avalon VT-737sp, then coming back out to the same during mixdown for comp & eq... also "tubeing & re-tubeing" for bass worked well for a sorta mid-y retro-bass tone. It really does depend on what sounds good. Jeez, I remember reading some bullshit a several years back where some dude said "Don't use a tube mic with a tube mic-pre", but that was a time when lots of cheap "tube" stuff was hitting the market targeting the 16-bit PT and ADAT users.

-C
Old 4th July 2002
  #9
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by ctmartin
the "Harley Davidson" of mics
I've quite liked the Groove Tube microphones that I've tried... but they're hardly the H-D of microphones... RCA or AEA might be the H-D of microphones, but not G-T [American made with a distinct heritage].

"H-D" is about history and tradition as much as it is [at least since the late 80's... for like 20 years before that it was a bit sketchy] about quality machinery.

While you will indeed find many "Jap" parts on an H-D [and Chinese capsules in the CAD and Groove Tubes stuff]... it's not just about being 'Amerikan Made'... it's about the history, tradition, styling, distinctive sound, and ride... [and anyone who wrenches their own ride will have two sets of wrenches... metric and SAE... quite a pain in the balls!!]

Then again... the stuff the H-D motor company is putting on the road these days isn't anything I'm all that wild about... [sorta like Neumann...] If you're into serious rides, there is some "custom" and "semi-custom" stuff that is being built that kicks H-D's ass. I've been seeing way more S&S motors lately, and frankly, I think they're a superior piece of machinery... the ride I'm in the middle of building at the moment will have an H-D motor... a 1978 "Ironhead" to be exact.

The H-D "Evolution" motor is indeed a more reliable piece of machinery... but I just can't get past the "pinging" of the aluminum cooling when you stop... it just ruins the experience for me. With the Ironhead, I can get equal displacement of a 'Big Twin Evo', run the compression ratio as high [I don't because I have a "kicker" in case my "button start" goes down... and trying to kick start an 80cui motor with 13:1 compression requires someone of the 350lbs. + build... and while I'm fat, I'm not that fucking fat]... and pretty much do anything you want to it to make it equally powerful, with equal or better low end torque to the modern motors [OK... it's tougher to do with 'Panheads, Flatheads or Knuckleheads... but that's kinda like painting bigger tits on the 'Mona Lisa'... there are certain bits of history that should remain as they were... but 'Shovelheads' and 'Ironheads' are often just begging for modifications].

The new ones have both an 'electronic ignition' and 'fuel injection'... which is probably great for the average "rubbie" [Rich Urban Biker... a.ka. the dentists and lawyers that have kept H-D growing and prospering... which is actually a good thing... seeing as H-D is still in buisness, you can still get 'factory parts' for the old iron], but it's not all that wonderful for anyone that wants to work on their own ride.

I'm quite happy with my points [I can fuck with the timing and dial it in better than with the electronic ignition... even if it isn't as 'efficient'], I'm ecstatic with the selection of carburators and jetting options at my disposal [which becomes "not an option" with fuel injection].

Back on topic... yes, you can fuck with any of these microphones, or have a competent "microphone technician" fuck with the microphones for you... but G-T just doesn't have the history and legacy to be the H-D of mics... maybe in 50 or 60 years, but not today [IMNSHO].
Old 4th July 2002
  #10
Gear Head
 

Thanx, Fletcher, for the Harley lesson.

I know very little about bikes (now I know a bit more), but I was casually referring to the look and sound of the GT MD-3: not a flashy Kawasaki Ninja, or a slick Honda Goldwing, but something more like a classic hog... not exactly a low-noise tube mic, and the design of the shell can only be described as "industrial, meat-n-potatoes", but the sound is big & smooth.

BTW, I don't see many MD-3's around, and I don't think they made many. For you slutz who might be interested, the MD-3 was made years prior to the Alesis buyout of GT. Worth getting if you can find one. I haven't used any of their more recent mics, but the MD-3 was built back when GT operated out of a small warehouse in Chattsworth, CA, circa 1992/93.

But the new GT ViPRE looks amazing...

Peace,
C
Old 4th July 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 

I wanna VIPRE real hard, but I gotta buy new speakers instead. grudge
Old 7th July 2002
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
trying to kick start an 80cui motor with 13:1 compression requires someone of the 350lbs. + build... and while I'm fat, I'm not that fucking fat]...
LOL GREAT POST!!!

Jesse James is building some cool ass rides as well...

Comparing your Ironhead to the new v-max is a cool analogy to what neumann and akg has benn doing as of late...
Old 8th July 2002
  #13
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Re: Can you over tube something???

Quote:
Originally posted by lnd
Just realised that my current recording chain has stacks and stacks of tubey dooby do gear in it. Is there such a thing as overdoing the tube....
Possibly, but not probably unless it's "toob" gear. However I think the bigger problem would be using the same recording chain on everything. While I have default combinations of mics and preamps that I use while working fast I wouldn't use the same mic, pre, compressor and EQ on everything in a recording.
Old 24th October 2008
  #14
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
it's not just about being 'Amerikan Made'... it's about the history, tradition, styling, distinctive sound, and ride...
Quite a find to hear an american talk about history and tradition... :P
Old 24th October 2008
  #15
Lives for gear
 
whitepapagold's Avatar
 

Its amazing how people confuse gear having tubes with gear where you hear tubes... Its not the same thing at all. Application of the tubes means more than the fact it uses them.

Take the Avalon 737- that has tubes but Ive never heard a more "solid state" sounding pre (as in what most expect tubes to sound like). There nothing stereotypically tube like about it. Not a fing thing.

Tubes don't have a sound- gear does. The only reprimand Ive gotten on Gearslutz is by telling an idiot that changing the tubes in his avalon is a placebo and he couldn't hear his way out of a wet paper bag.

Sad but true. Blind tests are a beautiful thing.
Old 24th October 2008
  #16
Gear Head
 
SmignalFlow's Avatar
 

The funniest part of this thread is the thought that an M149 sounds like a good tube mic!
Old 24th October 2008
  #17
I wonder if this thread applies to Gearslutz too. Anyone know that answer?

Cookies and Cake to anyone that gets its right!
Old 24th October 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 
IntenseJim's Avatar
 

I know the answer. Keep the eats; send me your GTQ.
📝 Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
♾️ Similar Threads
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump