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Dynaudio BM6A/BM12S Bass Management
Old 10th August 2004
  #1
Gear Head
 

Dynaudio BM6A/BM12S Bass Management

Hi everyone,

I just received my new Dynaudio BM6As and would like to pair them with a BM12S active aub. Does anyone have any suggestions for what I can use as a bass management system? I don't really need surround capability; I'm just looking for something simple to sum the bass and high pass the signal for the sub.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris
Old 10th August 2004
  #2
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
this seems pretty simple..from Martinsound


http://www.martinsound.com/pd_mma.htm
Old 10th August 2004
  #3
Gear Head
 

Thanks, Mike. I will check out the MartinSound box. I'm also looking at the M&K LFE-4 Studio Bass Management Controller. My question about the unit concerns the crossover filter. It is set to 80 Hz and, as far as I can tell, is not variable. While a crossover frequency of 80 Hz may work wonderfully in my setup, I was hoping to go a little lower (maybe 60 Hz). Of course, I need to set up the speakers, do some measurements, and adjust the positioning, but do you think having a non-adjustable crossover frequency is just too limiting?
Old 18th September 2005
  #4
Hi Chris,

Reviving and old thread, becuase I'm in the same situation. Just got a set of BM6A and a BM12S sub. I actually have 5 BM6A that I'll be using for surround, using the bass management built into the Yamaha O2R96. However, for regular stereo work, there are some problems with the way the O2R96 is set up that doesn't make it practical to use its bass management features with the stereo control room outputs for stereo work.

What product did you end up getting and how is it working for you?

Thanks!

Steve
Old 27th August 2006
  #5
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kudzu's Avatar
 

I'm kinda in the same boat ... I have BM6a's fed by a benchmark DAC-1 ... I've just ordered a BM10s SUB ... I've read the manual for the BM10s and can't figure out how to connect the Bm6a's / BM10s ? benchmark DAC-1. Do I need a crossover ? The BM30x sub looks as tho it has a crossover but its twice the price of the Bm10s and has been disconntinued ... Advice form u knowledgeable 'slutz dbe much appreciated
Old 27th August 2006
  #6
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

I also use BM6As and love'em. I was thinking bout a Dynaudio sub as well and as far as I remember the only Dyn subs with built in bass management are the BM9 and the new BM14, so the cheapest and most expensive one.
The guys at Dynaudio told me I should use a TC Electronic bass management device. Of course that's cross promotion, but if they propose it, it won't be bad either!

If anyone has reallife experience with any (still available) Dynaudio subwoofer, please share your impressions!
Old 28th August 2006
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler View Post
Thanks, Mike. I will check out the MartinSound box. I'm also looking at the M&K LFE-4 Studio Bass Management Controller. My question about the unit concerns the crossover filter. It is set to 80 Hz and, as far as I can tell, is not variable. While a crossover frequency of 80 Hz may work wonderfully in my setup, I was hoping to go a little lower (maybe 60 Hz). Of course, I need to set up the speakers, do some measurements, and adjust the positioning, but do you think having a non-adjustable crossover frequency is just too limiting?
The best acoustical splice between a subwoofer and main speakers is to measure the -3 dB point of each speaker (it may vary from one speaker to the next depending on room position) and set the crossover at that point. Our ManagerMAX has high-pass filters that are variable from 80 Hz on down.
Old 29th August 2006
  #8
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"... The best acoustical splice between a subwoofer and main speakers is to measure the -3 dB point of each speaker ..."

Please could u explain what this means ??????
Old 29th August 2006
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
"... The best acoustical splice between a subwoofer and main speakers is to measure the -3 dB point of each speaker ..."

Please could u explain what this means ??????
Each speaker, in a perfect room, will play down to the lowest sounds it can reproduce (depending on its box size, driver size, etc.), and then roll off (at a rate of 12 dB/octave for a sealed cabinet speaker). If the response is flat down to 68 Hz, it might be down 3 dB (half power) at around 52 Hz.

Add the 12 dB filter in the crossover to the 12 dB rolloff of the speaker and you get a 24 dB/octave filter; combine a subwoofer with this by using a low-pass filter at the same frequency, and you have a Linkwitz-Reilly characteristic crossover, which provides a smooth transition between the subwoofer and main speakers.

In real-world rooms, each speaker might have a different -3 dB point measured from the engineer's position because of room modes. So, it is important to have separate, adjustable filters for each speaker.
Old 29th August 2006
  #10
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Seiousfun, thanx for that ... looks like I have a study week ahead to fully understand what u've explained ...

Could u check out this post and let me know if u think the TC Electronic X024 is a suitable device ... I don't want to sonically compromise the Benchmark DAC-1 by putting another device in my monitoring chain ...

Please advise

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/83302-new-crossover-bm6as-amp-bm10s-sub.html
Old 29th August 2006
  #11
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I still can't believe that there's noone using Dynaudio subs? Hello?

There are so many BM6a users here. No subs or what?
Old 29th August 2006
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
...

Could u check out this post and let me know if u think the TC Electronic X024 is a suitable device ...

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/83302-new-crossover-bm6as-amp-bm10s-sub.html
TC makes good stuff, of course, but only you can determine if it compromises your sound by evaluating the XO24. In fact, the XO24 should be the last thing in your chain before the speakers, acting as a D/A, so your Benchmark won't be doing that job.

The XO24 is designed for live use, and has about 1000 features but you will not use about 998 of them. Its design puts it up against products from BSS and DBX (among others), so if this is what you want you may want to do some more research.

Our ManagerMAX, the Blue Sky BMC, and most other Bass Management controllers, are analog units, so your Benchmark will still provide the D/A conversion. Most of these are 5.1 designs, so you will be paying for three channels of crossovers that you will not be using (but these will make the transition to 5.1 painless if you ever want to - just add three more identical speakers).
Old 29th August 2006
  #13
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foxyloxy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
I'm kinda in the same boat ... I have BM6a's fed by a benchmark DAC-1 ... I've just ordered a BM10s SUB ... I've read the manual for the BM10s and can't figure out how to connect the Bm6a's / BM10s ? benchmark DAC-1. Do I need a crossover ? The BM30x sub looks as tho it has a crossover but its twice the price of the Bm10s and has been disconntinued ... Advice form u knowledgeable 'slutz dbe much appreciated
I ordered a BM12S for my BM6A's just after they became available in the UK, having tried to get a BM30. Box arrived at the studio direct from Dynaudio UK distributor, I opened it and spent the next hour scratching my head....
I called them and simply asked how I was supposed to hook up my BM6A's -

'just plug them into the ins and outs on the back of the sub'....

'But there's only one in and out'

'Oh......are you sure?'....

Needless to say, I got a full refund. Bought a Genelec 70 series sub which I've been very happy with.

The thing that annoyed me was that that at the time, the Dynaudio website indicated that the BM10 and 12 were designed to be used with Dynaudio BM and M Series monitors' but failed to make mention of the need for a Loudspeaker management system/crossover - not even managing to tell their UK distributor! And they still took another year to bring out the BM14S.
Old 30th August 2006
  #14
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Ah man ... this is sh*t ... I'm gonna do the same as u. Genelec sub is cheaper than BM10s and has a crossover ... can't understand why Dynaudio would release a product that's design is so flaw'd ... Any Dynaudio 'Slutz out there ?
Old 30th August 2006
  #15
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foxyloxy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
Ah man ... this is sh*t ... I'm gonna do the same as u. Genelec sub is cheaper than BM10s and has a crossover ... can't understand why Dynaudio would release a product that's design is so flaw'd ... Any Dynaudio 'Slutz out there ?
To be fair, it's not the design that was flawed. It's the planning that was flawed.The problem was that after discontinuing the BX30, they failed to replace it with another unit that had a crossover system on it. The BM10S and BM12S are designed primarily for use within surround systems which have a dedicated speaker management system (like the Audient ASP510) and not as an easy sub solution for a stereo setup. It took them at least a year to bring out the BM14S and the BM9S which have a bass management system. I would suggest you look at the BM9S which is half the price of the BM14S. Somewhere in between is the Genelec 7060A. Good luck
Old 30th August 2006
  #16
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kudzu's Avatar
 

thanx foxyloxy ... yeh, BM9S seems 2 b the one for me ... BM14s is so pricey
Old 30th August 2006
  #17
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But the BM9 looks soo damn unimpressing! It's really small. Not very slutty!
I'm quite suprised that noone on Gearslutz has checked it yet.
Old 30th August 2006
  #18
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kudzu's Avatar
 

Small is good ... still has a 10" speaker tho ... Just got off the phone with UK distributer ... he didn't realise that the BM10s & 12s had no Xover ... Will post up once I get BM9s nxt wk ... let u know how it performs with BM6a's ...
Old 10th September 2006
  #19
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Don S's Avatar
 

I'm using a Tonnoy TS10 with my BM6a. Sounds wonderful! Very flexible settings. Check it out.
Old 10th September 2006
  #20
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
Small is good ... still has a 10" speaker tho ... Just got off the phone with UK distributer ... he didn't realise that the BM10s & 12s had no Xover ... Will post up once I get BM9s nxt wk ... let u know how it performs with BM6a's ...
Any news?
Old 10th September 2006
  #21
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S View Post
I'm using a Tonnoy TS10 with my BM6a. Sounds wonderful! Very flexible settings. Check it out.
Does the TS-10 have bass management? Does it locut the satellites?
Old 10th September 2006
  #22
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Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener View Post
Does the TS-10 have bass management? Does it locut the satellites?
Yes! That's why I'm loving it. I fooled with the settings for a day or so. Now it's solid. IT has settings for:

Phase alignment
50 - 150hz crossover (to the sats)
LF cutoff - 50-30hz
volume
plass a HP switch to bypass the sub all together.
Check it out.
Old 10th September 2006
  #23
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

That sounds cool!

And with that HP switch you can just bypass the sub and work only with your satellites as full range speakers again? Without repatchnig cables?

How did you match the Tannoy to your BM6As?

I had a look at the manual, as far as I can see, there's a fixed locut for the satellites at 80Hz. But the subwoofers uppermost frequency is 50Hz? Seems strange! Can you explain how you work?
Old 10th September 2006
  #24
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Don S's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener View Post
That sounds cool!

And with that HP switch you can just bypass the sub and work only with your satellites as full range speakers again? Without repatchnig cables?

How did you match the Tannoy to your BM6As?

I had a look at the manual, as far as I can see, there's a fixed locut for the satellites at 80Hz. But the subwoofers uppermost frequency is 50Hz? Seems strange! Can you explain how you work?
Correct! You just have to turn down the volume of the sub.

I didn't match them, Dale Pro Audio did. I asumed I was listening to a very expensive sub, then found out it was tannoy at 450 USD.

You're right about the low cut, but the pot for the roll off (starting at 50) sounded best and flatest around 100 or so. If you see a pic of the back panel, it's not clearly marked, so I used a sweep to get it to sound even.
Old 27th September 2006
  #25
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Jump's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
Ah man ... this is sh*t ... I'm gonna do the same as u. Genelec sub is cheaper than BM10s and has a crossover ... can't understand why Dynaudio would release a product that's design is so flaw'd ... Any Dynaudio 'Slutz out there ?
I have the BM5a and the 10S sub , I would be pretty screwed if I didnt have the Big Knob to connect them both too. The Mackie Big Knob does not have a cross over but the sub and speaker both comes with filters 80 hz so it should work well. I am accually returning the 10S and getting the 12S or maybe something different and more powerful. Any suggestions, the genelecs look good .

Jump
Old 27th September 2006
  #26
bass management?

say, isn't that an oximoron? heh


talk about bass managament, when we played disney hall last month in LA,

the bass was outta control.


sorry for the ot, and good luck taming the wild animal.
Old 27th September 2006
  #27
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kudzu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener View Post
Any news?
Bm9s working great with BM6a's ... BM6a's, on their own don't really fill the room (they're nearfeilds after all ...) so the output of the BM9s is more than sufficient ... BM9s has significantly reduced the low end load on the BM6a's, that's what I got it for ... recent mixes with BM9s have travelled well ... I think if I'd gone for the BM14s I might have had too much low end for the BM6a's to compensate for ... In summary the BM9s and BM6a's give a well balanced monitoring setup ... nice combination ... HAPPY

.... I needed a sub with a Xover ... I feed my monitors with a Benchmark DAC1
Old 27th September 2006
  #28
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

Cool! Which settings do you use?
Old 28th September 2006
  #29
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kudzu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSweetener View Post
Cool! Which settings do you use?
The settings on the BM9s are dependant on the room ... It did take an hour of fiddling with the BM9s to get it right, but I did enjoy listening 2 my fav album tracks whilst doing it ... recommended
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