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Lavry Blue vs. Mytek AB listening test (also Lavry vs. Apogee)
Old 29th July 2004
  #31
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Ruphus's Avatar
 

Teacher, you´re wellcome :O), and yep, I thought the same; DAC1 especially for rap & techno demands.

Matous,

The device you show seems the one I meant with having that
" ... a very popular quality passive attentuator with a gazillion steps."

and

"... a simple controller with that attentuator build in. However it seems to be made for prosumer and has only RCA jacks."

Looks like they got XLR connex available now.

Ivo,

Meanwhile I got reply from SPL about the coming stereo controller. They havn´t measuered it yet, cause of delay in manufactory and because they measure only on the serial product ( no-brainer ).

But it is supposed to be of similar design as their souround controller which I believe is being regarded as pretty good.

I wanted to know which sections would be active. They said only the inevitable like summing stages ( as passives were to give impedance problems the more channels involved ) and the output drivers.

Just asked them if they could imagine to include one pair of inputs splitted of which the one pair would be driven by the main pot and the other pair just been routed out ( for outboard feeding ), so that you could either monitor or feed outboard through your best pair of D/A without having to plug around each time.

James,

The LA Audio seems to have great routing options. Can you tell us more to which controllers you compared it to? And maybe what D/A you were using?

Ruphus
Old 29th July 2004
  #32
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Ruphus, thanks. It is funny that a simple decreasing of volume requires $ 500 unit (if cheap).
I asked an audiophile electronic expert friend to construct a simple transparent attenuator for me. I do not need anything else than just one knob . Let us see ...
Old 29th July 2004
  #33
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faeflora's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek
Not really. What djs writes (not sufficient volume control) scares me. I absolutely do not feel like moving with some screws within Lavry. With such a rough action (decreasing the output volume), how can you be sure, that your L and R remain in exactly the same level ??

Any decent analyzer software will display .1 db increments.

What you do is feed D/A outputs back into the inputs and twist the screws while watching the meters or db level in the daw. Just make sure your monitors are off or do something so it doesn't feedback.
Old 29th July 2004
  #34
Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek
Atty has arrived. Ouch .... It is a terrible thing 1) distorts the sound a bit 2) volume control is of no use (1 milimetr after zero it starts to explode) 3) the L R balance is uneven.

Returning quickly


This is not normal at all. It sounds like you've got a broken pot on the ATTY. I've pointed this thread out to Peter Montessi owner of A-Designs, and he would like to replace your broken unit asap (providing your dealer cannot provide immediate support). Here is their contact:

http://www.adesignsaudio.com/contact.htm

Hope this helps.
Old 29th July 2004
  #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by faeflora
Just make sure your monitors are off or do something so it doesn't feedback.
Like routing the receivings tracks output to other channels than the masters.

Ruphus
Old 29th July 2004
  #36
Lives for gear
 

A totally passive level control can be built using a pair of Sowter attenuator transformers. You literally just put a pair in a box and wire them up with some i/o connectors, and the transformer tap wires to a pot.

Check out the Attenuators page at Sowter Transformers

There's a cool picture at the bottom.

Also, NHT Pro makes a cheap passive attenuator that sounded good when I heard it once in a very nice demo room.
Old 31st July 2004
  #37
djs
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by NathanEldred
This is not normal at all. It sounds like you've got a broken pot on the ATTY. I've pointed this thread out to Peter Montessi owner of A-Designs, and he would like to replace your broken unit asap (providing your dealer cannot provide immediate support). Here is their contact:

http://www.adesignsaudio.com/contact.htm

Hope this helps.
nathan, i had these same problems with mine (useing the lavry converters), sent it back to atty, they tested it, and they said it was working fine. they sent me a second unit, which when used in tandom with the first gave better results. all of these problems were drastically lessened with the use of a second unit. my thoughts are that the signal is too hot for 1 atty to handel, and the crackling, and uneven ballance are things that are only happining at the low volume position (going from 0-1 or 2 on the dial). the problem goes away at higher knob settings. if the incoming signal is lowered the atty responds much better. unfortunatley, it still lacks the attenuation most people are probably used to (and should expect with a good monitoring attenuator). the units work great for mic attenuators and stuff like that, but for monitoring attenuation, not so much. the customer service at a-designs is some of the best i've ever encountered though. if these problems are also happining at higher levels, the unit might very well have a problem, and a-designs will take care of any problem you may have.

i just wanted to mention this stuff so people dont start sending atty's in left and right to get fixed, when there may not be anything broken.

i think some sort of 20db pad switch would be a fabulous addition to the box.
Old 31st July 2004
  #38
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by djs
i had these same problems with mine (useing the lavry converters),
all of these problems were drastically lessened with the use of a second unit. my thoughts are that the signal is too hot for 1 atty to handel, and the crackling, and uneven ballance are things that are only happining at the low volume position (going from 0-1 or 2 on the dial). the problem goes away at higher knob settings. if the incoming signal is lowered the atty responds much better.
It seems so. The Lavry output is really hot and I could use just very minimum volume level in Atty. The stereo balance was very unbalanced (always pointed to one side). Peter Montessi suggested using two Atty units for making them usable with Lavry. I will try them soon .

Quote:
[i] the customer service at a-designs is some of the best i've ever encountered though. [/B]
Yes, indeed I have never experienced such a sincere care from any manufacturer so far
Old 1st August 2004
  #39
Quote:
Originally posted by ISedlacek
Yes, indeed I have never experienced such a sincere care from any manufacturer so far

Glad to hear it worked out... I know A-Designs works their tail off to make customers happy.
Old 1st August 2004
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Highend audiophile attenuators:
http://www.dact.com/html/attenuators.html
http://www.dact.com/html/faqs.html

CT2 Balanced Stereo $325.00
US distr. - http://www.nutshellhifi.com/dact.html

I've had the older unbalanced version, used it for Hi-Fi.
Had to put it in a metal box, solder a couple of cables, spray the box with a nice blue color, add a chicken knob. No big deal.
Old 30th March 2008
  #41
Here for the gear
 

we intensivly compared lavry blue da with the apogee 16 da at our german lavry dealer Lavry Engineering
and we will go for 24 lavry da s now. thjats was a hard decission but the result is clearly better.
Old 30th March 2008
  #42
Gear Addict
 
Zuewi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AD/DA View Post
we intensivly compared lavry blue da with the apogee 16 da at our german lavry dealer Lavry Engineering
and we will go for 24 lavry da s now. thjats was a hard decission but the result is clearly better.
AD/DA... sorry that i must say but you post in nearly every topic advertisement for (your?) shop....
I doesn't think that's the purpose of this forum. If you want to make advertisement add it at your signature and not at every post.
Don't only hype products what you sell at your shop, that just makes your opinion less trusted.

Btw. the topic was like 4 year old...
Old 20th April 2015
  #43
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek View Post
Mytek was a grand sound quality leap from my former Apogee Rosetta. But now, when compared to Lavry, Mytek sounded in all cases always a bit thinner, tiny bit "boxy" and slightly exagerrated in the highs. (but all this within a relatively small scale, of course)
Lavry sound was always a bit more pleasant, fuller in the mids, more warm, round, detailed and natural.
It takes a while for the Mytek's to break in. Some have said a few hundred hours and they really smooth out.
Old 20th April 2015
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post
It takes a while for the Mytek's to break in. Some have said a few hundred hours and they really smooth out.
Considering the original post that you quoted was from 2004, he's likely talking about a Mytek design a few generations back from current (especially if you are talking about the DSD DAC 192 specifically).

I don't think he had the 8x192, it looks like it was probably the 8x96 or 2x96, and the 8x192 is a big step up from both of those.

'Burn in' on a DAC (or ADC) is very snake oily audiophile speak. I personally haven't noticed a difference on any design after hundreds of hours. It's up there with hundred dollar plus IEC cables. Personally I'd be skeptical towards this with any converter, it either does or doesn't sound great out of the box (which the 8x192 and DSD DAC192 do, sound great).
Old 28th April 2015
  #45
Gear Head
 
Hussyh's Avatar
 

Hello Ivo...

A decade on from when you posted some remarks about the Lavry Blue, how do you feel about the Lavry now? Have you moved on to other converters yet? Or still using the Blues for the sound characteristics you described in your post?

I quote you here:

"Lavry sound was always a bit more pleasant, fuller in the mids, more warm, round, detailed and natural. All the instruments (violin, viola, flutes, guitar etc.) sounded very natural and pleasant"
Old 28th April 2015
  #46
SEA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
Considering the original post that you quoted was from 2004, he's likely talking about a Mytek design a few generations back from current (especially if you are talking about the DSD DAC 192 specifically).

I don't think he had the 8x192, it looks like it was probably the 8x96 or 2x96, and the 8x192 is a big step up from both of those.

'Burn in' on a DAC (or ADC) is very snake oily audiophile speak. I personally haven't noticed a difference on any design after hundreds of hours. It's up there with hundred dollar plus IEC cables. Personally I'd be skeptical towards this with any converter, it either does or doesn't sound great out of the box (which the 8x192 and DSD DAC192 do, sound great).

I spoke with Chebon the Director of Marketing for Mytek at length (great guy) and Yes... the 8X192 is a step up from the older builds as well as the Stereo192 DSD DAC.

There's is now a $400 upgrade on the front end for the 8X192 that is well worth it from what Chebon and others have said, and will be implemented on the new versions on the 8X192 along with other improvements when it is released in the future.

Some of the improvements will be an upgraded clock and an upgraded analog and digital front end. Change the weighting to -15 (Chebon thinks). Change the volume control and increase the digital routing and processing. Plus make it look cooler.

Chebon also told me that there is a break in time of at least 50 hrs (I believe) but the unit continues to break in as time goes on. Other end-users have confirmed this and stated that the 8X192 does smooth out in time. YMMV.

Last edited by SEA; 28th April 2015 at 07:58 AM..
Old 28th April 2015
  #47
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussyh View Post
Hello Ivo...

A decade on from when you posted some remarks about the Lavry Blue, how do you feel about the Lavry now? Have you moved on to other converters yet? Or still using the Blues for the sound characteristics you described in your post?

I quote you here:

"Lavry sound was always a bit more pleasant, fuller in the mids, more warm, round, detailed and natural. All the instruments (violin, viola, flutes, guitar etc.) sounded very natural and pleasant"
I believe Ivo uses the MADA-2 by Forssell now from what I last heard. Forssell is very good for acoustic and classical style which is right up Ivo's alley.
Old 28th April 2015
  #48
Gear Head
 
Hussyh's Avatar
 

Hi SEA...and thanks for that.

I was just also wondering if Ivo kept the Lavrys for the qualities he described (even if those qualities he might now recognise or consider as euphonic coloration), or if he found something new which he feels is always preferable to the Lavrys on all sessions at all times. Perhaps the Forsell has done that for him?
Old 28th April 2015
  #49
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussyh View Post
Hi SEA...and thanks for that.

I was just also wondering if Ivo kept the Lavrys for the qualities he described (even if those qualities he might now recognise or consider as euphonic coloration), or if he found something new which he feels is always preferable to the Lavrys on all sessions at all times. Perhaps the Forsell has done that for him?
Most likely. The Forssell is unreal good. I've had Lavry Black anyway and its not even CLOSE.
Old 28th April 2015
  #50
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussyh View Post
Hi SEA...and thanks for that.

I was just also wondering if Ivo kept the Lavrys for the qualities he described (even if those qualities he might now recognise or consider as euphonic coloration), or if he found something new which he feels is always preferable to the Lavrys on all sessions at all times. Perhaps the Forsell has done that for him?
I hear ya!

In another review from a mastering studio the Mytek was preferred over the Lavry and was said to have more detail and clarity. Chebon said the Mytek uses LOTS of current which brings out those subtleties (like hearing the attack on the bass drums, not just the thud). For me, Myteks are the way to go! Best "bang for your buck" IMHO.
Old 28th April 2015
  #51
Gear Head
 
Hussyh's Avatar
 

Thermos and SEA I don't doubt that the Forsell and Mytek might be considered technically superior to the Lavry Black - the Black is Lavry's entry level product and has different circuitry to the Blue series - which again has different circuitry to the Gold series - Oh yeah and now Lavry has a further upgrade D/A called the Quintessence. So the Black really isn't representative of what he can do when he goes all-out.

But the thing about the Blue series is that it's been described as having some euphonic qualities - and such qualities aren't always improved upon by going up the chain of fidelity/transparency. I've heard some sound-files of the Blue which impressed me...struck me as having a good balance between hi-fi and textural/musical qualities, and given Ivo's comments at the top of this thread, he seems to have heard those qualities in the Blue too. If he eventually grew tired of the euphonic coloration and wanted something of higher fidelity - fair enough - but I'd just like to know if that was the reason.
Old 28th April 2015
  #52
SEA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussyh View Post
Thermos and SEA I don't doubt that the Forsell and Mytek might be considered technically superior to the Lavry Black - the Black is Lavry's entry level product and has different circuitry to the Blue series - which again has different circuitry to the Gold series - Oh yeah and now Lavry has a further upgrade D/A called the Quintessence. So the Black really isn't representative of what he can do when he goes all-out.
Lavry, Mytek, and others have all improved since Ivo's review of the black. Now Mytek has the Manhattan which I like to call their "Platinum" series! heh
Old 11th May 2015
  #53
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
'Burn in' on a DAC (or ADC) is very snake oily audiophile speak. I personally haven't noticed a difference on any design after hundreds of hours. It's up there with hundred dollar plus IEC cables. Personally I'd be skeptical towards this with any converter, it either does or doesn't sound great out of the box (which the 8x192 and DSD DAC192 do, sound great).
Not according to this review:

Three New DSD-Capable DACs | The Absolute Sound

Quote:
"Mytek sent me two Stereo192-DSD-DACs, a black standard as well as a mastering version. For the review I used the standard version. I did listen to the mastering version near the end of the review period, primarily to see if the 400-plus hours of playing time I had put on the standard version had any effect on the sound compared to a brand-new unit with no playing time. There was a profound difference. The unused mastering version had a midrange glare and harder edge that was not present in the broken-in sample. Anyone evaluating a Mytek Stereo192-DSD-DAC that has not been thoroughly broken-in hasn’t really heard how a Mytek Stereo192-DSD-DAC can sound. I recommend at least 200 hours with an active signal. I left my review sample tethered to a Logitech Duet tuned to my local public radio’s Internet feed for nearly two weeks before I placed it into my desktop system."
Old 11th May 2015
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post

Believe what you want, I'm going on my first hand experience. I've done this test with at least three high end converters, all of which had hundreds of hours of use on them. If you listen to a converter new out of the box and expect it to improve in some noticeable way in the future you are in for a disappointment.
Old 11th May 2015
  #55
SEA
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SEA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post

Believe what you want, I'm going on my first hand experience. I've done this test with at least three high end converters, all of which had hundreds of hours of use on them. If you listen to a converter new out of the box and expect it to improve in some noticeable way in the future you are in for a disappointment.
It's not "believe what I want" but what end-users are saying. That's all.

Just ask Mytek and see if there is a break-end preiod. In fact, I did speak to Chebon the Director of Marketing at Mytek who confirmed it as well.

Last edited by SEA; 11th May 2015 at 11:04 PM..
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