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EVINDENCE AUDIO....Any comments Channel Strip Plugins
Old 22nd February 2008
  #1
EVINDENCE AUDIO....Any comments

Cable Design

any comments?

they even have a mp3 of an a/b with a Moster cable and the difference I can hear it in my speakers computer.

So somebody have real experience with those cables??
Old 22nd February 2008
  #2
Old 22nd February 2008
  #3
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
It's Evidence audio - not evident.

I don't know much about them. I know Michael Joly uses their stuff exclusively in the modding of his mics.

Ii think Brad McGowan prefers Evidence over Mogami, but at that level, I really don't think there's much difference. Of course, there's room for a few thousand more agressively ranting posts on the topic.
Old 23rd February 2008
  #4
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nomatic's Avatar
Evidence Audio Cables Sound Great

I use Evidence Cables for my instrument interconects and can hear a big difference!

If had to start over I would cable the whole studio with this stuff over Mogami...
Old 23rd February 2008
  #5
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BradM's Avatar
Yes Evidence Audio is great stuff! I use it in my guitar rig...Melody from guitar to pedal board and then Monorail between pedals and then to amp. I turned a bunch of my friends onto it as well and they are using the Lyric and the speaker cable in their guitar rigs.

In the studio I have a Lyric microphone cable that I use for all overdubs. I also use the Lyric to connect my monitors to my Mytek converters and have a bunch of Lyric patch cables and interconnects to/from my patchbay for critical signal paths. It's not cheap cable but it is very affordable compared to sonically comparable products. I was using some $150 Tara Labs cabs to hook up my monitors. I replaced it with an identical length of Evidence for about half that price. I have all my Evidence Audio cables made with Neutrik connectors by Brian at Gryphon String Instruments in Palo Alto, CA. They are an authorized Evidence Audio custom shop. Brian happens to be a friend of mine. You can buy the cable in bulk and make your own cables but it's a little trickier to deal with than Mogami due to the solid conductor and the insulator materials that easily melt if too much heat is applied. I made my mic cable and decided I would rather let someone else do it the next time.

Here's the gist of the Evidence stuff. Tony (owner of EA) is committed to delivering a solidly made no-frills cable with exceptional sonic performance at a very reasonable price. He doesn't try to do the whole audiophile thing. It's just a high-quality cable using a very pure copper solid conductor (that's the key) and well chosen insulator materials. It's not stranded like Mogami. So he's traded a little flexibility for sonic performance. There's no magic involved just good engineering and manufacturing practices. The result is a cable that is extremely musical, dynamic, and 3-dimensional sounding. Compared to a cable like Mogami, you get another octave of response on the top and bottom, improved detail and clarity, and better transient response. The differences are not subtle. And it won't break your bank to try the stuff and find out.

I strongly urge everyone to try out this cable. Do a test comparing it to your current stuff from your converters to monitors. Keep in mind that the cable is directional and will required a decent break-in period. So before making any critical evaluations I would hook the cable up to a CD player for a good couple days and leave it running to break it in.

Perhaps Michael Joly will chime in with his thoughts. He started using it soon after I had discovered it.

Brad
Old 23rd February 2008
  #6
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drBill's Avatar
[QUOTE=Brad McGowan;1860749]Keep in mind that the cable is directional and will required a decent break-in period. /QUOTE]

Oh brother...here we go again. Sorry brad, I highly respect 99% of your posts, but this subject is just waaaaaaaay out in left field.

bp

PS - cables for guitars and instruments are much more prone to "differences" than balanced cables in pro situations. I can definately hear a differece in gtr cables, but.....
Old 23rd February 2008
  #7
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BradM's Avatar
Bill,

Okay do this. Get some Evidence Audio cable, make some sound clips with it right when you get it. Then put 24 hours on the cable and make some more sound clips and post them. We can let others decide.

Feel free to call up Tony at EA...he can explain the science between the break in. It's not a voodoo thing at all.

The bottom line is that even brand new EA cable right out of the package still slays Mogami. It's not subtle.

Brad
Old 23rd February 2008
  #8
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
PS - cables for guitars and instruments are much more prone to "differences" than balanced cables in pro situations. I can definately hear a differece in gtr cables, but.....
Don't forget--if you evaluate gear or cables through a signal path that must travel through something colored (like Mogami between your converters and monitors) then you may hear things differently than you would if you had a more transparent signal path. It's analogous to auditioning mic preamps with a Sound Blaster sound card. The quality of the conversion might not reveal all the differences or color them in a way that skews your perception of them.

Brad
Old 23rd February 2008
  #9
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Bill,

Okay do this. Get some Evidence Audio cable, make some sound clips with it right when you get it. Then put 24 hours on the cable and make some more sound clips and post them. We can let others decide.

Feel free to call up Tony at EA...he can explain the science between the break in. It's not a voodoo thing at all.

The bottom line is that even brand new EA cable right out of the package still slays Mogami. It's not subtle.

Brad
Brad - First off, I'll say it again before I piss you off - I totally respect you and your opinions and your helpful posts to GS. Just so you know, I've been thru it with all the wire stuff several times. I've been involved in some of the most expensive esoteric and high end audiophile studio installs that do things like run a complete 1/4" copper trough embedded in the foundation around the studio with special sand in the bottom to house the wiring, special AC cables, special audio cables, solid grounding buss bars of the purest copper, yada, yada, yada. For the MOST part, it's all snake oil AFAIC. There's a running bet for a large amount of $$$ that someone has on the net for anyonoe to prove him wrong on the "snake oil" wire related issues with scientific A/B/X testing. I've yet to see anyone take the challenge.

I have no doubts that Evidence is top quality product, but it's all a moot point to me. After checking their prices, I figured it would cost me well over $150,000 to wire my studio with it. I have tens of miles of mogami in my studio. I don't care HOW good it is, it's way too much for me and 99.999% of other studio owners.

I'm not going to get embroiled in another of these whacky wire fiasco threads. Best to you....and all who use Evidence, Mogami or whatever. I'm outa here. Ii gotta make MUSiC today, not burn in my cables or check to make sure they're pointing the right direction.

Cheers,

bp
Old 23rd February 2008
  #10
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lofi's Avatar
 

lol

how about some measuring ? graphs ? null tests ? freq curves ?

how about some FKN SCIENCE for a change ?!?!? stike stike stike

my cables are blessed and therefore they sound right ! i pray to God of Cables every day !

Old 24th February 2008
  #11
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BradM's Avatar
I'm not recommending anyone rewire their entire studio with high end cable. That would be absurd. ****--even my entire studio is wired wit Mogami. But it doesn't hurt to have a mic cable or two and some interconnects for your monitors. I'm sure there are lots of "snake oil" cables out there. We're talking about a simple product here made of good materials. Again--no voodoo. The same difference that people experience when they upgrade from something like Hosa to Mogami. No worries, Bill, about pissing me off. I'm not offended by anything you wrote.

I'm not try to start any battles, nor do I care if anyone chooses to audition the cable. Butt Amiel wanted to hear from users with experience with the product. I consider myself to be someone with lots of experience and I think I have a track record here of sharing honest and intelligent insight. So that's what I'm doing.

Lofi--regarding scientific info. Contact the company. I'm sure they would be happy to provide you with some info. They are good honest people. However, the product speaks for itself. I think most of us agree that copper with lots impurities sounds grainy, muddy, etc. That the cheap cable. It's cheap because it's less pure. The purer the copper is the more money it costs. Evidence Audio merely uses copper at a purity level that doesn't break the bank but gives good performance. There's some science behind the performance of single conductors versus stranded. I don't know the details so I won't comment. But stranded is popular because it makes for a very pliable cable, which is good for stage use. It may even be cheaper to produce as well.

I never get why people get so crazy about things like cables. Do people freak out when they first make the leap from Mackie mixers to API preamps? I don't get it. It just comes down to good design using good parts/materials.

Brad
Old 24th February 2008
  #12
This sounds pretty interesting. The logic adds up for me.

Can anyone point out who else does solid core cables apart from evidence??


thanks

sali
Old 24th February 2008
  #13
Gear Maniac
I know Alessandro does solid-core as well. I haven't really bonded with the Melody in my electric rig: it's a little too immediate, too 'there' where I'd rather have a little depth and mystery. However, it's my go-to for electric bass where you'd want that kind of foundational solidity.

But yes, it's different and yes, it's worth looking into.

Michael
Old 24th February 2008
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mischultz View Post
I know Alessandro does solid-core as well. I haven't really bonded with the Melody in my electric rig: it's a little too immediate, too 'there' where I'd rather have a little depth and mystery. However, it's my go-to for electric bass where you'd want that kind of foundational solidity.

But yes, it's different and yes, it's worth looking into.

Michael
I always found it a bit wierd when people said that they prefered the sound of a particular converter. I believe along with most, that the converter should be nuetral. But the idea that the more direct signal path of solid core gives too much of a 'smooth' or 'present' sound has me totally topsy turvy.

Are they actually saying the cable is an acceptable form of effect processor in the chain?

please clarify...
Old 24th February 2008
  #15
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Paulhoff's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Lofi--regarding scientific info. Contact the company.
That would be the last people I would ever contact, the ones making the money. And as for money, I'm sure you would like to make $1 million, James Randi is waiting for you, if you can prove you can hear what you say you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
There's some science behind the performance of single conductors versus stranded.
Has for the conductor stuff, if that was true I would see that when using the Ham 440 MHZ Band, which I don't.

Paul

Old 24th February 2008
  #16
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lofi's Avatar
 

Quote:
I never get why people get so crazy about things like cables. Do people freak out when they first make the leap from Mackie mixers to API preamps? I don't get it. It just comes down to good design using good parts/materials.
me freaked out crazy ?!? im just sceptic thats all. why dont you get scepticism ?

i was also sceptic when i actually made that leap from mackie to any 700 euro per channel pre or eq . if i cant hear it. then it doesnt matter. if i cant hear it but can measure the difference then it MAYBE matters in the very end. or i can take advice of ppl i trust and belive that i will eventually hear it but not right now.

dont get me wrong but seems to me "it all comes down to good MARKETING and using good parts/materials" when some cable manufacturers are involved

consider how our receptors are prone to delusion. i always try to do proper abx and proper science and (apart from marketing reasons) justifie the expense. so far no cable passed my tests. good ol undamaged "normal" cable is doing just fine at my place but of course im always willing to experiment and to improove so dont get offended

cheers
Old 24th February 2008
  #17
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just look it up on the web.

after reading impressive summaries about the cables, i decided they were probably top of the line, with many other reasons: Phil Taylor uses them in Astoria, Ross Hogarth and a lot of big musicians use them.

but the only problem is: there are no reviews on Sound On Sound, or Tape Op, and it costs $70 dollars for a 1.5 inch instrument cable. if I was a multi millionare, i would then think of buying some...there are my thoughts which I gathered in less than 1 minute from going to their web site. not that hard people...
Old 24th February 2008
  #18
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lofi View Post
me freaked out crazy ?!? im just sceptic thats all. why dont you get scepticism ?

i was also sceptic when i actually made that leap from mackie to any 700 euro per channel pre or eq . if i cant hear it. then it doesnt matter. if i cant hear it but can measure the difference then it MAYBE matters in the very end. or i can take advice of ppl i trust and belive that i will eventually hear it but not right now.

dont get me wrong but seems to me "it all comes down to good MARKETING and using good parts/materials" when some cable manufacturers are involved

consider how our receptors are prone to delusion. i always try to do proper abx and proper science and (apart from marketing reasons) justifie the expense. so far no cable passed my tests. good ol undamaged "normal" cable is doing just fine at my place but of course im always willing to experiment and to improove so dont get offended

cheers
I can definitely appreciate skepticism. And I totally agree--if you can't hear the difference then it really doesn't matter...whether it's a mic, preamps, speaker, converter, etc. That's pretty much how I've evaluated gear for my own place as well.

Seriously though. Check out the Evidence Audio stuff in your studio. You may find it to be a good product that does something nice for your audio. The improvement it makes as an instrument cable is really nice, especially compared to something like George L or Monster. I bet if you contact the owner directly he might send you a cable for evaluation. Then you wouldn't have to spend the $50.

We're cool. heh

Brad
Old 24th February 2008
  #19
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylansmale View Post

but the only problem is: there are no reviews on Sound On Sound, or Tape Op, and it costs $70 dollars for a 1.5 inch instrument cable. if I was a multi millionare, i would then think of buying some...there are my thoughts which I gathered in less than 1 minute from going to their web site. not that hard people...
On the website it's $105 for a 10 ft Lyric cable. If you contact Gryphon String Instruments (or other dealers) you can have custom lengths with whatever Neutrik connectors you want made...and you'll probably get better prices too. And you'll be able to just buy the raw cable in bulk. I think the Lyric might be about $4/ft. So you could make your own 20 ft. mic cable for less than $100.

Brad
Old 24th February 2008
  #20
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drBill's Avatar
Brad - is it a low capacitance issue that makes the Evidence sound different? If so, you may want to check out this "active" cable. I'm impressed with the "outside" the box thinking, very reasonable price, and basic idea of the cable. I'd still only use them for "instrument" cables though.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...-consider.html

bp
Old 24th February 2008
  #21
From what you guys are saying, i reckon its atlesst worth investing in the mic cables. Especialy for me coz ive got a very small mobile set up. a caouple of 5 foot cables would do it.
But do you think its worth going for the speaker cable too? I wander if its good for bi wiring passive monitors. Any comments would be appreciated.
Old 25th February 2008
  #22
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I use EA Lyric HG in my guitar rig, and yes it makes a difference. For me it improved my tone over Monster, George L's etc. by quite a bit. I also have a VOVOX cable which is another high end instrument cable. I have A/B'd the VOVOX and EA and prefer the EA, the VOVOX sounds 'brash' to me - I don't think the difference is that subtle either.
Old 25th February 2008
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyangus View Post
I use EA Lyric HG in my guitar rig, and yes it makes a difference. For me it improved my tone over Monster, George L's etc. by quite a bit. I also have a VOVOX cable which is another high end instrument cable. I have A/B'd the VOVOX and EA and prefer the EA, the VOVOX sounds 'brash' to me - I don't think the difference is that subtle either.
where is it available in the uk? did they have speaker cable available too?
Old 25th February 2008
  #24
Gear Maniac
Not certain what the converters have to do with it, although I think there's certainly a spectrum of preference from neutral to ideal (whatever that means to whomever).

But as best I understand the technical aspect of the thing (and that's a significant disclaimer), the signal travels over the surface of the conductor. So a single conductor should be perfectly time-aligned in a way that a multiple-element conductor cannot be (however close you may be able to come). Of course, that's but one factor along with material sourcing, cable composition, shielding, and a holy host of other things. But I do think that's a part of what I hear from the EA - it's very immediate, maybe a little hard sounding. Not harsh, mind you, but hard. Again, I think it's great on bass, but I'm not quite digging it on guitar.

In any case, it's not a better or worse thing. I think folks bring a lot of that comparative/competitive angst to these discussions when in fact, it's simply that there are discernible, tonal differences between cables, between converters, between preamps, between microphones, between vocalists, between everything. If you're looking for greater sonic density in *any* of your microphones or instruments, the EA Lyric or Melody represent a relatively low-cost experiment (compared to a new pre or comp or whatever) and one that I'd endorse attempting.

Hope this helps,

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
I always found it a bit wierd when people said that they prefered the sound of a particular converter. I believe along with most, that the converter should be nuetral. But the idea that the more direct signal path of solid core gives too much of a 'smooth' or 'present' sound has me totally topsy turvy.

Are they actually saying the cable is an acceptable form of effect processor in the chain?

please clarify...
Old 26th February 2008
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
where is it available in the uk? did they have speaker cable available too?

PM sent.
Old 26th February 2008
  #26
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danasti's Avatar
 

What I find both funny and ironic is the we lust after the high end gear. We pay top dollar for old console channels. We pay for that old Fairchild compressor or Pultec EQ and we admire the engineers who used them. We admire their techniques. However, we somehow think that George Martin had imperfect connections from his amp to his monitors or from the bands guitars and drums to the console. Why not use the same wires that Tom Dowd used to record Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin? Did Bruce Swedien spend $1500 on a pair of cables from his amp to his speakers when he mixed "Thriller". What about the solder or the interconnections inside our gear. I would like to know how much per inch Chandler or Buzz, API, Ruper Neve, AMS, Eventide and Lexicon pay for theirs. A cable, in my mind, is no different but a continuation of these.

I have no doubt that a cable can alter the sound a bit. I also have no doubt that by hearing a difference in response some people will come to a conclusion that a more expensive cable is better. Some people will hear more "clarity" or "definition" in a cable. However, is this right? If you are hearing more "definition" or "clarity" isn't it possible that you won't add enough or work hard enough to make the mix sound great for the customers who buy the finished product. Especially when most won't have cryogenically frozen, hyper biased, intensicon (trademarked!), "solid core", uberbrilliant, $1500 per foot connectors?

There are literally $20,000 per pair speaker cables. Would that have made Clapton's guitar parts better if the mix was monitored with these? I don't believe so. There is so much snake-oil involved in "high end" connection marketing. They invent words that sound scientific and even publish papers pointing to these like they are actually scientific measurements. This is where Audiophiles and Recording Engineers split on the road ... Recording equipment, for the vast majority of companies, base their specifications on recognized scientific specifications and accurate testing practices.

I say whatever sounds good to you, use it, but don't be fooled into thinking that the connection is more "correct" just because there is a slight sonic variation as it could hurt the end result of a mix more than help.

Good Luck and Good Mixing!
Old 26th February 2008
  #27
Gear Nut
 

i use Evidence throught my entire guitar rig (audio and speaker cables) and i love them. definately an upgrade from mogami... with that said, mogami is fine cable... if i was rich id do the whole studio in Evidence but for now i might have to start slow, maybe some cables for the monitors, and go from there...
Old 26th February 2008
  #28
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SkunkWorks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantorbuzz View Post
i use Evidence throught my entire guitar rig (audio and speaker cables) and i love them. definately an upgrade from mogami... with that said, mogami is fine cable... if i was rich id do the whole studio in Evidence but for now i might have to start slow, maybe some cables for the monitors, and go from there...
I've got the inside of my Marshall 4x12 wired with the Evidence Lyric kit that's made for this. I couldn't believe the dental floss Marshall had in there. You'd think if they're gonna charge over a grand (new) for a cabinet they'd at least spend more than a dollar on wire. Rediculous. Even my $350 Chinese made Epiphone 4 x 12 that I sold when I recently bought the Marshall had a decent guage wire and was soldered point to point.
Old 26th February 2008
  #29
Gear Maniac
 

I've been using Lyric HG in my guitar rig and in my mix down chain. Most of the rest of my cables are either mogami, Zaolla silver. I used to use all George L in the guitar chain.

In the guitar chain, the difference was pretty damned obvious. There's more detail. You hear more pick attack, fingering and other harmonic subtleties. The Zaolla is similar but can seem more harsh. The Lyric HG has a more balanced tone with presence. Almost everyone with a passive system that's tired this cable notices the improvement immediately.

My console is still wired with Zaolla and it sound just great. It's not as pronounced a change as with the guitar chain. I think I hear more depth and clarity in the mixes compared to when I used monster and mogami, but it's subtle enough that it could be subjective.

My monitors and mix down chain are all Lyric HG. When I first set it up, I wired one side with either Mogami or Zaolla and the other with the Lyric HG. The difference between all three cables was much like with the guitar chain. The Lyric HG won out with less brittle or harsh highs and improved clarity and detail in the mids/low mids. Blind test, without telling people what they were listening for, people can pointing to the side wired with Evidence and saying they preferred that mix.
Old 26th February 2008
  #30
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BradM's Avatar
Yep, my experience has been identical to yours, Shortyprs.

Would there be anyone besides me interested in an Evidence Audio 8 channel Dsub cable? If there is enough interest then there is a chance we could convince Tony to make it.

Brad
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