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EVINDENCE AUDIO....Any comments Channel Strip Plugins
Old 15th October 2009
  #61
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
I use mix of Mogami, Tara Labs, Zaolla and Canare cables in studio.
When total length of cables is more than 100 m for typical mixdown than question of quality really matters.
Matters to extent that using cheap cables is quite likely to add artifacts to signal.
So, 99,999% of improvements are done when reasonable high quality cables are applied and indeed some of them are mostly very affordable.
I didn't find that some of very exotic cables I have (like Tara Labs, Acoustic Zen) brougt anything more to table than some of already very good, but non-exotic offerings.
The best example are Canare cables, they don't cost too much, Japanese manufacturer doesn't position them as esoteric (they produce big quantities) and in unbiased tests they usually yields equal results as 1000$/m+ cables OR BETTER.
Canare is not very much supported by audiphile gears dealers, as they can't earn too much (imagine just 2$/m compared to 200 or 2000 $/m). Same with articles in specialized journals etc. etc.
Zaolla was kind of surprise in terms that for some interconnections they were slightly different and slightly preferred over Mogami that were usually applied (mostly on denser mixes) and on some applications they were on brighter side, although in no case I would call them better than Canare.

I was passionate audiophile for years (hence my strive to achieve sonic improvements in recording realm) and one of the most beaten to death issues were loudspeakers cables that indeed are physically longest one (depending or room size) and carrying amplified signal to loudspeakers where sensitivity to the smallest difference in impedance/capacity or other variables are (or should be in theory) quite audible.
To peace their minds, reasonable audiophiles usually put cables in average cost of 200-500 $ for pair, despite claims of many high-end manufacturers that their systems will sound 'much better' if 'appropriate cables used'.
I did several tests with Nordost, JPS Labs, Acoustic Zen, Nirvana Audio, Stereovox, Silversmith Audio, Shunyata Anaconda and some I can't even remember.
Some required 600 hr+ burn in period and almost all manufacturers suggested that final audible result will require some 'internal growth of listening experience' in order to be 'ready to enjoy to full extent'.
My point here is not to save stupidly and use cheap Radio Shack wire for wiring 50.000$ or 100.000$ value of studio gears, but to use indeed very good quality cables from manufacturers committed to quality and able to produce it and sell in large quantities to ensure economy of scale and good pricing for enduser. From that level further improvements is non-existing (although differences that are not improvement 'per se' might occur).

One of highly appreciated top quality loudspeakers manufacturer John Dunlavy from Dunlavy Audio Labs participated with his reference systems (typically costed 25.000 $ 10 years ago) in many high-end audio tests. It should be mentioned that Dunlavy systems won many awards in competition with top of the line 50.000$, 75.000$+ systems, so they can be considered as priced down to earth.
His committment to the best achievable sound is apparent and would be strange that he would compromise sound by choice of lesser cables.

Here is his opinion expressed on the subject:

Having read some of the recent comments on several of the Internet audio groups, concerning audible differences between interconnect and loudspeaker cables, I could not resist adding some thoughts about the subject as a concerned engineer possessing credible credentials.

To begin, several companies design and manufacture loudspeaker and interconnect cables which they proudly claim possess optimized electrical properties for the audiophile applications intended. However, accurate measurements of several popularly selling cables reveal significant differences that call into question the technical goals of their designer. These differences also question the capability of the companies to perform accurate measurements of important cable performance properties. For example, any company not possessing a precision C-L-R bridge, a Vector Impedance Meter, a Network Analyzer, a precision waveform and impulse generator, wideband precision oscilloscopes, etc., probably needs to purchase them if they are truly serious about designing audio cables that provide premium performance.

The measurable properties of loudspeaker cables that are important to their performance include characteristic impedance (series inductance and parallel capacitance per unit length), loss resistance (including additional resistance due to skin-effect losses versus frequency), dielectric losses versus frequency (loss tangent, etc.), velocity-of-propagation factor, overall loss versus frequency into different impedance loads, etc.

Measurable properties of interconnect cables include all of the above, with the addition of those properties of the dielectric material that contribute to microphonic noise in the presence of ambient vibration, noise, etc. (in combination with a D.C. off-set created by a pre-amp output circuit, etc.).

While competent cable manufacturers should be aware of these measurements and the need to make them during the design of their cables, the raw truth is that most do not! Proof of this can be found in the absurd buzzard-salve, snake-oil and meaningless advertising claims found in almost all magazine ads and product literature for audiophile cables. Perhaps worse, very few of the expensive, high-tech appearing cables we have measured appear to have been designed in accordance with the well-known laws and principles taught by proper physics and engineering disciplines. (Where are the costly Government Consumer Protection people who are supposed to protect innocent members of the public by identifying and policing questionable performance claims, misleading specifications, etc.?) --- Caveat Emptor!

For example, claiming that copper wire is directional, that slow-moving electrons create distortion as they haphazardly carry the signal along a wire, that cables store and release energy as signals propagate along them, that a final energy component (improperly labeled as Joules) is the measure of the tonality of cables, ad nauseum, are but a few of the non-entities used in advertisements to describe cable performance.

Another pet peeve of mine is the concept of a special configuration included with a loudspeaker cable which is advertised as being able to terminate the cable in a matter intended to deliver more accurate tonality, better imaging, lower noise, etc. The real truth is that this special configuration contains nothing more than a simple, inexpensive network intended to prevent poorly-designed amplifiers, with a too-high slew-rate (obtained at the expense of instability caused by too much inverse-feedback) from oscillating when connected to a loudspeaker through a low-loss, low-impedance cable. When this box appears at the loudspeaker-end of a cable, it seldom contains nothing more than a Zobel network, which is usually a series resistor-capacitor network, connector in parallel with the wires of the cable. If it is at the amplifier-end of the cable, it is probably either a parallel resistor-inductor network, connected in series with the cable conductors (or a simple cylindrical ferrite sleeve covering both conductors). But the proper place for such a network, if it is needed to insure amplifier stability and prevent high-frequency oscillations, is within the amplifier - not along the loudspeaker cable. Hmmm!

Having said all this, are there really any significant audible differences between most cables that can be consistently identified by experienced listeners? The answer is simple: very seldom! Those who claim otherwise do not fully grasp the power of the old Placebo-Effect - which is very alive and well among even the most well-intentioned listeners. The placebo-effect renders audible signatures easy to detect and describe - if the listener knows which cable is being heard. But, take away this knowledge during blind or double-blind listening comparisons and the differences either disappear completely or hover close to the level of random guessing. Speaking as a competent professional engineer, designer and manufacturer, nothing would please me and my company's staff more than being able to design a cable which consistently yielded a positive score during blind listening comparisons against other cables. But it only rarely happens - if we wish to be honest!

Oh yes, we have heard of golden-eared audiophiles who claim to be able to consistently identify huge, audible differences between cables. But when these experts have visited our facility and were put to the test under carefully-controlled conditions, they invariably failed to yield a score any better than chance. For example, when led to believe that three popular cables were being compared, varying in size from a high-quality 12 AWG ZIP-CORD to a high-tech looking cable with a diameter exceeding an inch, the largest and sexiest looking cable always scored best - even though the CABLES WERE NEVER CHANGED and they listened to the ZIP Cord the entire time.

Sorry, but I do not buy the claims of those who say they can always audibly identify differences between cables, even when the comparisons are properly controlled to ensure that the identity of the cable being heard is not known by the listener. We have accomplished too many true blind comparisons with listeners possessing the right credentials, including impeccable hearing attributes, to know that real, audible differences seldom exist - if the comparisons are properly implemented to eliminate other causes such as system interactions with cables, etc.

Indeed, during these comparisons (without changing cables), some listeners were able to describe in great detail the big differences they thought they heard in bass, high-end detail, etc. (Of course, the participants were never told the NAUGHTY TRUTH, lest they become an enemy for life!)

So why does a reputable company like DAL engage in the design and manufacture of audiophile cables? The answer is simple: since significant measurable differences do exist and because well-known and understood transmission line theory defines optimum relationships between such parameters as cable impedance and the impedance of the load (loudspeaker), the capacitance of an interconnect and the input impedance of the following stage, why not design cables that at least satisfy what theory has to teach? And, since transmission line theory is universally applied, quite successfully, in the design of cables intended for TV, microwave, telephone, and other critical applications requiring peak performance, etc., why not use it in designing cables intended for critical audiophile applications? Hmmm! To say, as some do, that there are factors involved that competent engineers and scientists have yet to identify is utter nonsense and a cover-up for what should be called pure snake oil and buzzard salve - in short, pure fraud. If any cable manufacturer, writer, technician, etc. can identify such an audible design parameter that cannot be measured using available lab equipment or be described by known theory, I can guarantee a nomination for a Nobel Prize.

Anyway, I just had to share some of my favorite Hmmm's, regarding cable myths and seemingly fraudulent claims, with audiophiles on the net who may lack the technical expertise to separate fact from fiction with regard to cable performance. I also welcome comments from those who may have other opinions or who may know of something I might have missed or misunderstood regarding cable design, theory or secret criteria used by competitors to achieve performance that cannot be measured or identified by conventional means. Lets all try to get to the bottom of this mess by open, informed and objective inquiry.

I sincerely believe the time has come for concerned audiophiles, true engineers, competent physicists, academics, mag editors, etc. to take a firm stand regarding much of this disturbing new trend in the blatantly false claims frequently found in cable advertising. If we fail to do so, reputable designers, engineers, manufacturers, magazine editors and product reviewers may find their reputation tarnished beyond repair among those of the audiophile community we are supposed to serve.
Old 15th October 2009
  #62
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky Karma View Post
Does anybody else get continuity when they check the hot and negative points in the Monorail cable? I was going nuts trying to figure out why my last two attempts at making a patch cable with switchcraft jacks didn't go right. Then I checked what I have left of the bulk cable and got a reading of 5ohms. Then to make absolute certain something wasn't touching that shouldn't I stripped and twisted the ground off at one end and connected the two leads from the other end to a banana plug and still got a reading of 5 ohms.

The black plastic insulation layer is also conductive. Ensure that for the live connection you are only touching the wire inside the white plastic and that the black plastic layer is well stripped back.
Old 16th October 2009
  #63
Gear Maniac
 
Chunky Karma's Avatar
 

Gotcha Butcha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcha View Post
The black plastic insulation layer is also conductive. Ensure that for the live connection you are only touching the wire inside the white plastic and that the black plastic layer is well stripped back.
That was exactly to problem. Conductive plastic, who woulda thunk? Thank you for saving me further aggravation.
Old 16th October 2009
  #64
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky Karma View Post
That was exactly to problem. Conductive plastic, who woulda thunk? Thank you for saving me further aggravation.
Glad that I was able to help, I had the same problem as you, it took me a while to figure it.
Old 16th October 2009
  #65
Lives for gear
 
Isle of Weight's Avatar
 

Evidence has a new instrument cable called the Forte
http://www.evidenceaudio.com/fortedatasheet.jpg


I was wondering has anyone heard it yet?

AA
Old 24th December 2009
  #66
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyangus View Post
I use EA Lyric HG in my guitar rig, and yes it makes a difference. For me it improved my tone over Monster, George L's etc. by quite a bit. I also have a VOVOX cable which is another high end instrument cable. I have A/B'd the VOVOX and EA and prefer the EA, the VOVOX sounds 'brash' to me - I don't think the difference is that subtle either.
I know it's old but never too old to be true.

So true about the EA Lyric HG vs Vovox. Dimention, fatness, thightness in bass and clearness with harmonics comes to my mind when using EA.

I'm one of those that never belived that cable could do a differance, look at me now
Old 10th January 2010
  #67
Lives for gear
 

I personally preferred the Vovox to the Evidence on the sources I tried.
Old 14th March 2010
  #68
Gear Addict
Yes! Evidence Audio 8 channel Dsub cable?
Gimme Gimme.
Old 14th March 2010
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickard Bengtsso View Post
Yes! Evidence Audio 8 channel Dsub cable?
Gimme Gimme.
sounds great but how $$$??
Old 14th March 2010
  #70
Lives for gear
 
Isle of Weight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickard Bengtsso View Post
Yes! Evidence Audio 8 channel Dsub cable?
Gimme Gimme.
Funny I was wondering about this yesterday!


AA
Old 15th March 2010
  #71
Gear Head
 

wow

It's fascinating what's going on here. There's a kind of uniformity of tone amongst those who are pro-Evidence cables. One can only conclude:

1) There are MANY deluded buyers here

2) There is a large and organized group of shills working here

3) There are both shills and suckers here

4) The positive testimony is correct -- the difference "IS NOT SUBTLE" -- and simple science (double blind tests, all the relevant measurements) has mysteriously failed to step up and verify.

Shouldn't be possible but reading this thread has made me less informed about Evidence cables than I was in the first place.
Old 15th March 2010
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Castle View Post

Shouldn't be possible but reading this thread has made me less informed about Evidence cables than I was in the first place.
as many other GD threads then.
just go and get a cable and try it yourself.

I would not make a significant order of any brand of "super cables" only after I tested them and see if they really improve the sound as everybody say.

But I am open to check them out.
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