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U47 and C12 clones -whats out there?
Old 24th June 2011
  #121
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

In English "tube" means something different than it does in American. heh
Old 24th June 2011
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by yotonic View Post
I may be confused here, but is he actually building/using something that looks like a glass tube that really isn't? Or for that matter is calling it a tube when it isn't? That would seem like a conscious effort to mislead people and I doubt any reputable mic builder would do that.
I read this in a post from DONNX [FWIW - the guy says "FET Transistor. If you are mislead, you are already mislead]...

Quote:
Here is some information about Andreas's tubes.

"The sound is the same as the original TFK VF14M tube
but with very high pressure level the sound in the high end is a little bit more clear.
The K3 distortion arrives a little bit later than the VF14 tube."
Andreas Grosser.

"VF14EF FET Version
Inside are FET transistors that are producing the typical K2 and K4 distortion
from an original Telefunken VF14M tube.
The sound is the same
but with very high pressure level. Also the sound in the high end is a bit more clear.
The K3 distortion comes a bit later than the VF14 tube.
I have more than 25 customers in Europe using my VF14 ER FET version and they all found the sound to be great."
Andreas Grosser

" VF14ER TUBE Version
inside is a long live pencil tube on a big cooling plate
also the sound is the same as the TFK VF14M
some original TELEFUNKEN VF14 tubes are different in emission, self noise
level and low end frequency response under 100Hz
with the VF14ER you have the same low end than the best VF14 tube"
Andreas Grosser.

Original VF14 - 112 dbA DIN AUDIO NOISE Working Time ~ 500 - > 2000 Hours
Andreas Grosser VF14ER - 114 dBA DIN AUDIO NOISE Working Time ~ 5000 - > 10000 Hours
Andreas Grosser VF14EF - 116 dBA DIN AUDIO NOISE Working Time over 50000 Hours
Original EF 12 - 115 dBA DIN AUDIO NOISE Working Time ~ 500 -> 2000 Hours


VF14 EF Fet designed and created by Andreas which was designed to replace the original rare Telefunken VF14M. It has a 50,000 hour life span before replacement is needed.
Old 24th June 2011
  #123
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didier.brest's Avatar
 

I think that Andreas Grosser is proposing a circuit that does not include any tube as replacement of an actual VF14 within a VF-14-like package so that it is pin-to-pin electrically identical to a VF-14 and can be mounted in old mics using this tube; of course he does not intend to mislead his customers, who are generally people knowing enough what are a microphone, especially a U47, a transistor and a tube for not being so easily confused.
Old 24th June 2011
  #124
Lives for gear
My confusion came from reading the posts here:

"He's already offering a FET mic. Just calls it a tube."

I was under the impression it was being housed in an actual glass tube which I would find very misleading and unnecessary for anyone "knowledgable enough" to buy one of his mics. If it is actually going to be the black device in DONNX post then I see no problem with that. However I would most certainly have a problem if the builder was commercially referring to it as a tube when it's not. That would just raise all sorts of ethical questions. And if it was anyone else like ADK or Sweetwater it would cause a firestorm.

I think if anyone were to actually disguise an FET in a glass tube that would be disingenuous. Especially when we all know that the mic business relies heavily on incremental sales to amateurs and semi-pros. And one only needs to read this forum to see that there are a great number of people plunking down $4,000 on mics when they don't know what they are doing. I think every good manufacturer is responsible for some level of integrity. Especially when they "enjoy" the good standing associated with their reputation.
Old 24th June 2011
  #125
Gear Maniac
 

I believe Mr. Krisman was calling into question the statements of a previous poster, not Mr. Grosser himself. In any event he wasn't making any accusations I'm sure. I know that because I brought my Grosser U47 mike over to his place for a shootout and explained to him what the FET device was.

Andreas Grosser would never and has never misrepresented his FET replacement as a real tube, just one with very similar characteristics to a tube (sounds great BTW). He also makes a replacement that has a real glass tube in it, but I have heard that he may be discontinuing that one because of lack of supply.

Think about it, why would anyone try to put an FET inside of a tube small enough to fit in a mike and then misrepresent it? Doesn't stand to reason.

Also, the original VF14 tube was a black metal device anyway, not glass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yotonic View Post
My confusion came from reading the posts here:

"He's already offering a FET mic. Just calls it a tube."

I was under the impression it was being housed in an actual glass tube which I would find very misleading and unnecessary for anyone "knowledgable enough" to buy one of his mics. If it is actually going to be the black device in DONNX post then I see no problem with that. However I would most certainly have a problem if the builder was commercially referring to it as a tube when it's not. That would just raise all sorts of ethical questions. And if it was anyone else like ADK or Sweetwater it would cause a firestorm.

I think if anyone were to actually disguise an FET in a glass tube that would be disingenuous. Especially when we all know that the mic business relies heavily on incremental sales to amateurs and semi-pros. And one only needs to read this forum to see that there are a great number of people plunking down $4,000 on mics when they don't know what they are doing. I think every good manufacturer is responsible for some level of integrity. Especially when they "enjoy" the good standing associated with their reputation.
Old 24th June 2011
  #126
Lives for gear
Got ya. I thought it defied reason as well. Thanks.
Old 24th June 2011
  #127
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yotonic View Post
I may be confused here, but is he actually building/using something that looks like a glass tube that really isn't? Or for that matter is calling it a tube when it isn't? That would seem like a conscious effort to mislead people and I doubt any reputable mic builder would do that.

See this is what I'm talking about. Confusion is bound to arise and ultimately reflect poorly on Mr. Grosser. I'm certain his intention is not to deceive.

-R
Old 24th June 2011
  #128
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejbill View Post
I believe Mr. Krisman was calling into question the statements of a previous poster, not Mr. Grosser himself. In any event he wasn't making any accusations I'm sure. I know that because I brought my Grosser U47 mike over to his place for a shootout and explained to him what the FET device was.
That's right Bill, I'm referring to DONNX's references, not Grosser himself. And before you had brought your mic over, I had already puzzled out that it was a FET device from reading various threads here and at Prosoundweb. But it took a lot of reading and I was fairly far down the line with my research before I had the "aha" moment and realized that what was being casually referred to by everyone as a tube in fact wasn't one.

So now we can say so there's no confusion, it's a FET and not a tube.

And it's "Krizman", not "Krisman"

-R
Old 24th June 2011
  #129
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

You know, maybe to just put an end to this line of the thread, I want to go back to my reason for making this point, which was a positive one. The Grosser mic with the FET tube replacement in fact sounds fantastic, and it would seem that he has come up with an alternative to rare tubes that will enable more people to enjoy a fantastic mic at a, well, somewhat reasonable price.

This is all addressed to the people who say that something can't be a valid clone unless it uses all the same original parts. The Grosser mic, IMO, puts the lie to that type of snobbery. But of course, my point has no substance if people don't clearly realize he's using a FET and not a tube.

Sorry to belabor. Over and out.

-R
Old 26th June 2011
  #130
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DONNX View Post
For me, I believe that I would not have said "tube" at all if it wasn't in the original tube case and bakelite baseplate with pins. But it is, and there lies why I called it as such. The Fet board is hidden/ buried inside the tube casing. So "eye" sees VF14 body and pins, "brain" thinks, say "tube".
Don, I think you're just digging yourself in deeper. I'd let it go.

-R
Old 4th July 2011
  #131
So,is there any sort of consensus on the best U47 or U48 clone/replica available?
Old 21st April 2019
  #132
Gear Addict
 
outUVphaze's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair View Post
He's hungry a half hour later?
10 years later.

It remains a mic drop moment.
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