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New way of using Toft ATB? Consoles
Old 30th July 2008
  #31
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst View Post
I think Alan was agreeing with you, especially after having his head handed to him on several occasions here. It's a New York kinda humor.
Ya think? (only here's here in Cali with me)

-a
Old 30th July 2008
  #32
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alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Wow, that IS disrespectful, especially considering the amount of goodwill I've supported you with.

"Ya think!" Huh? You say that as if it is obvious to you... uh, it may be now, but it WASN'T and I can drudge up plenty of threads to support that.

I tried to be constructive with you and was met with this dick sarcasm.tutt

Losing a fan...

-andrews
Andrews, this is "not" disrespectful..That is why I wrote after Ya Think that is is not meant to be so... for me, when someone is making a point, and a good one at that...and I fully agree with it, the expression "Ya Think" is one of humor and total agreement.

I am fully aware of the issues of delay. You and I have been very friendly on the phone and on the threads. My comment was nothing but agreement, and not sarcastic in any manner.

Words typed do not carry the connotation they do when spoke...which was why I clarified that is was not meant to be disrespectful... I am sure many here have heard that comment being said as agreement...Harvey understood. So please, do not take it the wrong way...
Old 30th July 2008
  #33
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NoEgo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
Wow, that IS disrespectful, especially considering the amount of goodwill I've supported you with.

"Ya think!" Huh? You say that as if it is obvious to you... uh, it may be now, but it WASN'T and I can drudge up plenty of threads to support that.

I tried to be constructive with you and was met with this dick sarcasm.tutt

Losing a fan...

-andrews


Yeah,,,hey we all lived these things and I really want the meter bridge too....but the way I read what Alan said...he is agreeing with you..admitting to you....in fact ...he even made a point to say....not being disrespectful Halo. He could have said..gee...you are so right Halo...but...that sounds plastic. He is a player, music enthusiast like us man. I think he was just being a part of. Nothing else...in my humble opinion.
Old 30th July 2008
  #34
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alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoEgo View Post
Yeah,,,hey we all lived these things and I really want the meter bridge too....but the way I read what Alan said...he is agreeing with you..admitting to you....in fact ...he even made a point to say....not being disrespectful Halo. He could have said..gee...you are so right Halo...but...that sounds plastic. He is a player, music enthusiast like us man. I think he was just being a part of. Nothing else...in my humble opinion.
Spot on! I like Andrews, I would never have intentionally said anything to be rude or disrespectful...I just think he did get the tone of what I actually meant. I hope he does....
Old 30th July 2008
  #35
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NoEgo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by animix View Post
I am interfacing 44 AD's and 44 DA's here so that I can do exactly this. I've got 20 outboard preamps intetrfaced with 20 of the AD's. I've got the rest interfaced with outboard processors. I just insert the preamp and/or outboard processors as inputs/channel inserts wherever I want them. No more hassles with patchbays either. Everything is directly patched to it's own AD or AD/DA and all patching is done in the DAW mixer interface.

Yeah I can see that working ...you would just have to look at your outboard verbs as inserts I guess. You can send but you have to receive them too. You are also limiting what input is what pre unless you unplug them when you are done a session. I think a "when you need" approach seems easier for me. I tried the dedicated pre to input thing but it's another step if you are recording minimal tracks that doesn't have to be. Maybe I'm lazy. Then you have to EQ them when they are returned. You have to build a track frame for them at least in the DAW to EQ. . I EQ my returns ...I can't speak for everyone, The screen would be a bit busy maybe on a mix though, (and I have a 32 inch screen). The benefits I could see would be total free automation. I think I would tend to get a little buggy eyed though. but I'm not a kid. I would think with all those ins and outs it's easier to grab and turn or push faders. However having said that if you are more comfortable on the screen why not. I would go insane. I have been using Cubase for 15 years and it would still grieve the crap out of me if I didn't have a board like the ATB32 to control audio. Again my opinion. I am old fashioned but I like to dedicate most of my capable science to my ears and make the other stuff less complicated. I also think that an all path through a glue bath like that on the Toft is a desirable tone and gives a cohesiveness. Or..another way to look at it..it just sounds good. This mush thing though. I think people are trying to have radio ready masters when they mix. That is mastering. I think anyway, that that is half the problem right there. If they had volume knobs on all IPOD head phones, should we be slamming the output of the IPOD at a constant. Why would a board be any different. What the hell happened to dynamics anyway? Ok I better shut the @#$% up now. :-)
Old 30th July 2008
  #36
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhyatt View Post
Spot on! I like Andrews, I would never have intentionally said anything to be rude or disrespectful...I just think he did get the tone of what I actually meant. I hope he does....
(Not sure if this is posting twice or not, my Internet is acting up. Anyway...)

Fair enough and thank you. My apologies. It is becoming increasingly difficult on this forum (and I should always have knows better with you) with people being rude.

You and I have been nothing friendly and cooperative.

Peace.

-andrews
Old 31st July 2008
  #37
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by animix View Post
I am interfacing 44 AD's and 44 DA's here so that I can do exactly this. I've got 20 outboard preamps intetrfaced with 20 of the AD's. I've got the rest interfaced with outboard processors. I just insert the preamp and/or outboard processors as inputs/channel inserts wherever I want them. No more hassles with patchbays either. Everything is directly patched to it's own AD or AD/DA and all patching is done in the DAW mixer interface.
I've thought about this as well. I keep meaning to do some simple loopback tests to convince myself that the repeated A/D D/A conversion is a red herring as far as degradation goes (I have Myteks). Are you ever tracking through compressors and EQ's after the preamps? If so, how do you handle that? Are you chaining the gear in the analog realm at all? Or are you doing using something like TotalMix to matrix it all together? There's something like a 0.4ms delay by looping through TotalMix if I recall correctly...

thanks,
Brad
Old 1st August 2008
  #38
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alanhyatt's Avatar
 

So this is off topic a bit, but I thought it was cool and sent to us by a friend...

3 News > Video > Entertainment > David Farrier > Future looking bright for Pistol Youth

Look for the Pistol Youth clip....
Old 1st August 2008
  #39
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NoEgo's Avatar
Cool....all us Toft owners should put photos of our studios up on the Toft page.
What do you think?
Old 1st August 2008
  #40
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animix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoEgo View Post
Yeah I can see that working ...you would just have to look at your outboard verbs as inserts I guess. You can send but you have to receive them too. You are also limiting what input is what pre unless you unplug them when you are done a session. I think a "when you need" approach seems easier for me. I tried the dedicated pre to input thing but it's another step if you are recording minimal tracks that doesn't have to be. Maybe I'm lazy. Then you have to EQ them when they are returned. You have to build a track frame for them at least in the DAW to EQ. . I EQ my returns ...I can't speak for everyone, The screen would be a bit busy maybe on a mix though, (and I have a 32 inch screen). The benefits I could see would be total free automation. I think I would tend to get a little buggy eyed though. but I'm not a kid. I would think with all those ins and outs it's easier to grab and turn or push faders. However having said that if you are more comfortable on the screen why not. I would go insane. I have been using Cubase for 15 years and it would still grieve the crap out of me if I didn't have a board like the ATB32 to control audio. Again my opinion. I am old fashioned but I like to dedicate most of my capable science to my ears and make the other stuff less complicated. I also think that an all path through a glue bath like that on the Toft is a desirable tone and gives a cohesiveness. Or..another way to look at it..it just sounds good. This mush thing though. I think people are trying to have radio ready masters when they mix. That is mastering. I think anyway, that that is half the problem right there. If they had volume knobs on all IPOD head phones, should we be slamming the output of the IPOD at a constant. Why would a board be any different. What the hell happened to dynamics anyway? Ok I better shut the @#$% up now. :-)
heh

I did this basically because I was so tired of the crappy way that Cubase handles carryover of outboard patching from project to project. Having 20 dedicated preamp inputs and the rest as dedicated processor I/O or bus outputs for the Cubase cue/control room has made life so much easier. I pretty much keep a Portico 5042 strapped across my mix bus, patch in the outboard (both on input and output channels, as needed) and then supplement this with 4 x UAD-1 cards. I've got 7 outboard digital FX processors patched in using an RME AES 32 card and all of the processors (except for one which is 96k capable) are interfaced with real time SRC so I can use them as send FX with projects at higher sample rates. It's a flawless situation with minimal hassle. Everything is patched in Cubase 4 and the outboard gear just carrys over from project to project. My DAW tracks easily at 32k buffers and dubs plugin heavy mixes easily at 64 k buffers, if needed, so there's just not a lot of jinking around to deal with. A very productive DAW/outboard configuration. I wouldn't mind having a nice board though and I've always admired Mr. Toft's work.

Old 1st August 2008
  #41
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animix's Avatar
Quote:
I've thought about this as well. I keep meaning to do some simple loopback tests to convince myself that the repeated A/D D/A conversion is a red herring as far as degradation goes (I have Myteks).
You should be fine with Myteks. I've got a couple of Myteks here but the majority of my AD/DA's are RME ADI 8-DS.

Quote:
Are you ever tracking through compressors and EQ's after the preamps? If so, how do you handle that? Are you chaining the gear in the analog realm at all?
I used to, but no more. I did some pretty extensive testing before I decided on this and didn't hear any audible artifacts. I often insert outboard compressors or EQ on Cubase input channels when tracking with no issues.

Quote:
Or are you doing using something like TotalMix to matrix it all together? There's something like a 0.4ms delay by looping through TotalMix if I recall correctly...

thanks,
Brad
All monitoring is done through Cubase. No Totalmix or ASIO direct monitoring at all.

Cheers,
Old 1st August 2008
  #42
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NoEgo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by animix View Post
heh

I did this basically because I was so tired of the crappy way that Cubase handles carryover of outboard patching from project to project. Having 20 dedicated preamp inputs and the rest as dedicated processor I/O or bus outputs for the Cubase cue/control room has made life so much easier. I pretty much keep a Portico 5042 strapped across my mix bus, patch in the outboard (both on input and output channels, as needed) and then supplement this with 4 x UAD-1 cards. I've got 7 outboard digital FX processors patched in using an RME AES 32 card and all of the processors (except for one which is 96k capable) are interfaced with real time SRC so I can use them as send FX with projects at higher sample rates. It's a flawless situation with minimal hassle. Everything is patched in Cubase 4 and the outboard gear just carrys over from project to project. My DAW tracks easily at 32k buffers and dubs plugin heavy mixes easily at 64 k buffers, if needed, so there's just not a lot of jinking around to deal with. A very productive DAW/outboard configuration. I wouldn't mind having a nice board though and I've always admired Mr. Toft's work.

hey definitely not knockin what you are doing. I use Cubase 4 too, but I bought a Mackie Big Knob...yeah that is what they are called, to handle hardwired all my external control room connections. (not for out busses on Cubase. I just use the 16 outs for that.

How about parallel compression.. I guess you would route to a comp and back all on its own. .instead of letting it live on a buss right??? Or use the cards but I like the analogue sound. All preference.

...How do you handle that. THat is why I love the 8 buss and wish I had 16 sometimes, even in my old Mackie days you could run pseudo 24 ..3 groups of eight. I ran an 8 track reel to reel and still had 16 busses left for insert. You just had to make sure you didn't use the inserts until you finished tracking. but....the sound was..sterile....The Toft is molasses warm...
I know what I do is capable on the screen for sure, but it's so much easier for me to reach and plug or turn knobs and slide faders, and the sound is a blessing rather than something I have to manufacture with a plug in. If I don't want the sound then I take a direct out of the channel instead of it sent to the buss on the Toft.
Again... just what ever you are used to. I know people who fly in protools and don't know what the knobs are for on a board.

Glad to see you have it all figured out though and it works for you. By the way I use RME for an interface too.. Good stuff.
Old 1st August 2008
  #43
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animix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoEgo View Post
hey definitely not knockin what you are doing. I use Cubase 4 too, but I bought a Mackie Big Knob...yeah that is what they are called, to handle hardwired all my external control room connections. (not for out busses on Cubase. I just use the 16 outs for that.

How about parallel compression.. I guess you would route to a comp and back all on its own. .instead of letting it live on a buss right??? Or use the cards but I like the analogue sound. All preference.

...How do you handle that. THat is why I love the 8 buss and wish I had 16 sometimes, even in my old Mackie days you could run pseudo 24 ..3 groups of eight. I ran an 8 track reel to reel and still had 16 busses left for insert. You just had to make sure you didn't use the inserts until you finished tracking. but....the sound was..sterile....The Toft is molasses warm...
I know what I do is capable on the screen for sure, but it's so much easier for me to reach and plug or turn knobs and slide faders, and the sound is a blessing rather than something I have to manufacture with a plug in. If I don't want the sound then I take a direct out of the channel instead of it sent to the buss on the Toft.
Again... just what ever you are used to. I know people who fly in protools and don't know what the knobs are for on a board.

Glad to see you have it all figured out though and it works for you. By the way I use RME for an interface too.. Good stuff.
Having everything hard wired does present some limitations, such as sidechaining using analog gear. I can, however do this easily using the UAD Neve 88-RS channel or the Cubase VST3 comps. Same thing with parallel compression. I could strap a comp across a send/return, but I really prefer to use the UAD-1 bus compressor for most parallel compression chores. Like you say, it's all in how you choose to work. After jacking around with endless configuration issues for years, I've pretty much settled on this as working for my needs. I did the same thing with plugins. I just use the UAD-1's and occasionally some of the native Steinberg plugs these days. Settling on a streamlined working methodology, with limited, but high quality options has made things much more productive around here.

thumbsup
Old 4th August 2008
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animix View Post
I did this basically because I was so tired of the crappy way that Cubase handles carryover of outboard patching from project to project.
You just need to start naming & saving your i/o configs & External EFX configs in your "VST Connections" section... end of problem. Really.
Old 4th October 2008
  #45
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spitfire8898's Avatar
 

Alan,

Any new details you can post on the new console?
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