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Wunder CM7 vs. CM7-GT (Samples)
Old 9th November 2007
  #1
Wunder CM7 vs. CM7-GT (Samples)

Update 12/23/07

OK - this was getting confusing with all the different files I posted. Here are The two versions with everything working correctly:

The first file is a Wunder CM7-GT with a k47 capsule
The second is a Wunder CM7 with an M7 capsule

These both have a little compression on them, but no EQ

So - none of the posts on page 1 and 2 are referring to these files...these are brand new.
Attached Files

Wunder CM7-GT (k47).mp3 (3.81 MB, 5100 views)

Wunder CM7 (M7).mp3 (3.81 MB, 4659 views)

Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Greg Heimbecker's Avatar
I prefer A by a good stretch on this voice.
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

I only listened to raw files, and I can assure you, there is more than two different mics at play in A vs. B. A has seen a lot more (or at least better) processing than B. No question about it.

B sounds virtually out of phase, as if all its lowend has been stripped out. I listened to the mix now and A has too much lowend and B too little.

If you think these sound alike, you really ought to at least invest in a decent pair of cans (I can tell this instantly with HD280 out of a laptop). I have little faith in your monitoring arrangement.
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
laser's Avatar
 

John,

Great song! It moved me and that doesn't happen very often. Really liked the way you used your voice to compliment the lyrics.

Oh, yeah......I liked B better.

Laser
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 

I find better B and B. (notebook speakers)
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #6
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
Wow, they sound TOTALLY different, are you sure something else is not at play here?

A sounds like ****loads of proximity effect
B sounds as though it has something wrong with it in the lower frequencies by comparison

Edit: Although (now having listened to it in the track) I like the highs in B better

Edit 2: Although the mp3 coding makes it sound a bit distorted ( I assume thats what it is) (I'm listening on $5 headphones)

narco
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #7
Nowhere did I say these two sound anything alike. That's why I was so surprised. I guess I'm kind of giving it away, but I was a little worried something might be wrong with the low end on the CM7 - kind of one of the reasons I posted. I've since played around with the eq on the Aurora added a little low end and gotten the CM7 to a fantastic sound. Those raw files are raw - no eq - so there's no difference in the processing. I agree - there's muddiness on A and a lack of low end on B...but after eq-ing them in the mix, I think they both sounds pretty good. I like things about both, but I would think I like B the best between the two. That being said, I feel like I could get a better take and add a little low end from the front end if I were to do it again. I pulled the CM7 out of the box and did this two hours later...Two hours after that I'm starting to really learn how to use it.
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I only listened to raw files, and I can assure you, there is more than two different mics at play in A vs. B. A has seen a lot more (or at least better) processing than B. No question about it.

B sounds virtually out of phase, as if all its lowend has been stripped out. I listened to the mix now and A has too much lowend and B too little.

If you think these sound alike, you really ought to at least invest in a decent pair of cans (I can tell this instantly with HD280 out of a laptop). I have little faith in your monitoring arrangement.
You listened with headphones and you're questioning my monitoring? I have Adam A7's and nowhere did I say that these sounded alike. See the post before this...
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #9
I do have a question about phase...I'm wondering what's going on with my rig - I have to use the phase button on all of my pres because when I don't, well - it sounds out of phase...I'm assuming something in my chain is out of phase. In this instance, I go from the mic to an Aurora GTQC to a Rosetta 200 with an x firewire card straight into my Mac. I monitor with the Apogee Firemix application and through a Mackie Bigknob. This recording was definitely not out of phase because without the phase button on my GTQ in, you can totally hear the bottom and top go away. So I guess the cat's out of the bag - B is the CM7...but that's what it sounded like going straight in without the eq engaged on my GTQC...I'm wondering if you guys might think there's something funky going on with the CM7. I've engaged the EQ and added some low end and it sounds damn fantastic, but it does start kind've bright, huh? I wonder if the capsule might have been tweaked this way?
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

I think you might have just got a SICK deal...for a SICK mic. I've heard the CM7 before and it sounds a lot more like your CM7-GT. Whatever is going on, signal B is not healthy.

ADAM A7s have a very poor, artificially peaked, puffy and distorted low-end. Bad enough I don't think it can be fixed with subs. The P11 is smooth in comparison and can be fixed very well with subs.

Your discussions of phase issues indicate something is definitely amiss in your rig. These are mono sources and thus they shouldn't have anything to cancel with each other. The impact of a polarity reversal on its own is very subtle. The only place you'd notice polarity clearly is in your headphones when singing because you have the direct signal coming from your throat canceling with the foldback signal. I'm assuming you're aware of this?

I would have to take a look at how things are wired, but I'd suspect there may be bad cabling, some sort of parallel processing loop, or something else amiss. Even so, if you plugged the CM7 into the exact same lead as the CM7-GT and didn't change anything including position relative to your mouth, the CM7 is probably defective.
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
Yes, nice vocal John. I prefered Mic A because of the way it sounded in the mix. I would think that you might have to roll of some of the bottom end on Mic B if that were your only choice. It does appear to have more proximity effect. It does sound like the same vocal take so I'm curious as to how you had the mics positioned.

Nice one! thumbsup
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by peeder View Post
I think you might have just got a SICK deal...for a SICK mic. I've heard the CM7 before and it sounds a lot more like your CM7-GT. Whatever is going on, signal B is not healthy.

ADAM A7s have a very poor, artificially peaked, puffy and distorted low-end. Bad enough I don't think it can be fixed with subs. The P11 is smooth in comparison and can be fixed very well with subs.

Your discussions of phase issues indicate something is definitely amiss in your rig. These are mono sources and thus they shouldn't have anything to cancel with each other. The impact of a polarity reversal on its own is very subtle. The only place you'd notice polarity clearly is in your headphones when singing because you have the direct signal coming from your throat canceling with the foldback signal. I'm assuming you're aware of this?

I would have to take a look at how things are wired, but I'd suspect there may be bad cabling, some sort of parallel processing loop, or something else amiss. Even so, if you plugged the CM7 into the exact same lead as the CM7-GT and didn't change anything including position relative to your mouth, the CM7 is probably defective.
Yes, I'm aware of this...It hasn't been an issue because it's a mono source. You might be right - could be a sick mic...but I don't think so. I can't imagine Mike Castoro wouldn't stand behind his mics though, so I might send it to him for a checkup. I might try another pass with it...
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #13
OK - sick mic or not, this is the sound I've been looking for. The midrange is just amazing on this CM7...Anyway, I took another pass at it with the CM7 but this time I used eq on the Aurora. Pulled up the low shelf a tiny bit and to me it seems to have fixed the weirdness in the lows. I used Cambridge to pull out some more 400 and 1k and added some 5k and 10k shelf...I had the gain up a little too much at the end, but I'm loving how this sounds...
Attached Files

WunderCM7mix.mp3 (4.76 MB, 3581 views)

Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #14
Moderator
 
matt thomas's Avatar
thats better, passes the $5 headphone test

narco
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
Hey John,

I think you might want to get the mic checked, I just got a cm7, I've been trying it out on everything in the past 2 weeks and it doesn't sound like that...The lowend definitely sounds strange on the cm7 sample
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
HudHudson's Avatar
 

Ditto. My CM7 (with M7 capsule) doesn't sound like that. Have Mike check it out.
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 

B sounds broken to me. Not just the missing lows, but the unpleasant upper midrange. A sounds great, closer to my experience of what a 47 sounds like (if that matters).

I don't take issue with your monitors, because the mixes and sounds are fantastic overall and sound perfectly balanced on my Adams S3As.

-R
Old 9th November 2007 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Addict
 
Old Cane's Avatar
 

Ok, what in the world is SICK? is that like Far Out or Groovy?
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #19
How does the last version sound? It's the CM7...I don't think it sounds unpleasant at all. In fact, I think it sounds pretty damn pleasant. I don't think anything is broken...I might send it to Mike to check out though...I'd like to be sure that it's what it's SUPPOSED to sound like. Does anyone in Nashville have a CM7? I'd love to get together and compare them...
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #20
I ireally don't think it's broken - I've demo'd one before and it was pretty heavy in the midrange - on purpose...
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Give us another quick A/B, using the CM7 and the CM7-GT, connected by the exact same cables (XLR and power) one after another (disconnect one, connect the other in its place), making sure your mouth is identical distance and position from the capsule each time. Forget the mix let's hear the mics raw. And no processing...just preamp to converter to MP3. Rick is right there's problems up in the mids in Raw B above.
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
redrue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
How does the last version sound? It's the CM7...
The last version sounds like what the CM7 ought to sound like... If 'WunderRawB' was the CM7, as you hinted that it was, in the earlier samples then I would also say that something was wrong with the mic. I'd be hard pressed to get mine to sound that empty.

nice vocal thumbsup
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #23
Yes, B is the CM7 in every example. It's also the WunderCM7 clip I posted.

I'm going to sing two passages with both of them raw. I mean - hey - if something's wrong with it, I want to know. The weird thing is, when I add just a tiny bit of the 80hz shelf on my Aurora - just a fraction to the right of noon, the bottom end suddenly shows up. I don't think it's the GTQC because my GT has plenty of bass. It seems like everything corrects when I add a little bass, but that's not what I thought the CM7 was supposed to sound like with the M7. I thought - if anything - I would be rolling off the bass. If it's as simple as adjusting to the mic and adding bass in the eq, should I be worried about it?
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #24
BTW - I don't think anything un-toward has happened. I've even gotten a call from the guy that sold it to me saying he had read the thread and it concerned him. He offered to call Mike C. himself to have it checked out. He's a stand-up guy and I think this is just a matter of this capsule might lack a little of the traditional bottom end of a normal CM7. I might have Mike take a look just in case.
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
John.
call Mike.that doesn't sound right at all.
Sounds like a tube issue.
I just had the same thing happen with my CM-7.all the lowend went bye bye.
The EF14 went south. seems to me like only 1 in 20 old EF's are actually any good.
I've been through a couple.one got f*cked in shipping and the other was just plain bad.
My local mic tech replaced it and its fine
Old 10th November 2007 | Show parent
  #26
I think you guys are right - something is wrong. Roundbadge - I think you're right about it being the tube...I just recorded a snippet and I'm starting to get a little white noise and whoosh. It's just a general lack of low end. I can dial it in, but it shouldn't sound that way just straight up. Here's a sample:
Attached Files

Tubetest.wav (4.53 MB, 1689 views)

Old 11th November 2007 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Wunderkap's Avatar
 

Tube issue

The mic ait't broken, but you need to change the tube. The low end should be a lot thicker.


W)
.
Old 11th November 2007 | Show parent
  #28
Hey Mike -
I sent you an email...
Old 12th November 2007 | Show parent
  #29
Does anyone have a CM7 example they can post?
Old 12th November 2007 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Maniac
 
Wunderkap's Avatar
 

CM7 examples

Get the "Memory Almost Full" CD from McCartney so you can hear it uncompressed on all the vocals.

Or my Myspace page:
http://myspace.com/wunderkap

since I am not doing pop my Vx are in the mix and not up front though. Maybe "Instant Picture" is upfront more.
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