The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
KM184 Vs AKG C414 for overheads
Old 2nd November 2007
  #1
Here for the gear
 

KM184 Vs AKG C414 for overheads

Hi all looking for some new drum overheads. i was thinking of some km184 but for an extra $400 i could get a matched pair of C414's which are quite a bit more versatile than the 184's.
Has anyone used C414's as overheads?

Any opinions on these mics for someone that has never heard either?

Thanks
Old 2nd November 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I like the km 184 on the OH very much , use it all the time . I also like c 414 on everything else, never used it on drums OH ex snare -sounds great . You can use km 184 on all the instruments , i am using them on bass, piano, drums OH, snare, hi hat, sax, trombone , ac guitar and they work really nice as room stereo pair etc ....They have that magic sound on the cymbals and brushes but are also great for more agresive sound too . My vote for neumannys , but i am sure u wont go wrong with c414 too .
Old 2nd November 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Audio Hombre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zace2005 View Post
Has anyone used C414's as overheads?
i'd venture to say that they've been used on over a million recordings as oh's.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #4
the new 414's are different then the old ones. I would rather get a pair of peluso p28's
Old 2nd November 2007
  #5
Gear Addict
 

414 / 184

Man, I was going to recommend 2 more capsules for you. I picked up the C414 new XLS stereo pair for 1,310. Good cost. I was thinking you had the KM140s. Then, you could pick up some KM150 OMNIs that have the flat freq response. Bummer. I would trade up to the KM100 series maybe so you can swap capsules later. But then again there's Schoeps, DPA, Microtech Gefell, etc. That Gefell MK221 also available from Josephson (e617 set) looks like a killer. The 414 is versatile, I'll pull it out on vocals soon, I've used it on overs, hat, ambience kit, room. It's a general mic, I mean there's big time cost mics out there, my 414s were just 655 each.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #6
AKG can be omni, figure of 8, etc so it will give you more options to work with. Generally live concerts for years have always been with omni mic's. I would go with the AKG
Old 2nd November 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 

For drums I prefer KM 184's over 414's ...they're different of course, but seem to be a better mic in general.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Use 414's all the time as OV's.

Not knocking the previous poster for his preference of the 184's ... but the 414's is a much more versatile mic. It's rep speaks for itself, no endorsement by anyone on gearslutz is needed.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #9
Gear Addict
 

I'd stay away from the KM184 (too brittle IMO) and go for a pair of Gefell M-300 (closer to the KM-84)...

That said, I prefer large diaphragms on OH though so I'd go C-414...

Olivier.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
For me question would be what I want from those tracks.

If i really need cymbals, and cymbal articulation, I'd go with the 184. If I need the overheads to be more full body......also capturing som eadditional drum tone, the 414s are better.

It might come down to a question of if ther are dedicated room mics, in which case I might lean to the 184s. Also if it was jazz, or a song where the ride might carry a lot of time keeping the 184s are more articulate on the cymbals.

Thats how I see it. I've used both quite a bit.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffmo View Post
If i really need cymbals, and cymbal articulation, I'd go with the 184. If I need the overheads to be more full body......also capturing some additional drum tone, the 414s are better
I agree... that's why I sometimes put KM184s directly overhead for precise cymbal articluation, and a pair of 414s out in front of the drums / cymbals for a more complete unified kit snapshot.

I've used other LDCs on overheads before (usually not far above the drummer's head), but I find the off-axis coloration of LDCs to be a problem. Whatever cymbals are right in front of the mics will sound bright and present, and whatever cymbals are slightly off to the sides will sound darker and more distant. It's not consistant.

SDC mics (such as the KM184s) in general have better off-axis consistancy... and are thus better for close distance overhead use. LDCs are better for when the mics will be a bit farther away from the kit... like out in front 10 feet or so or whatever.

It all works though... as always, YMMV.
Old 2nd November 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
 
leaper's Avatar
 

I've used a 414 ULS pair many times. They've never let me down.
They were go to mics for OH..one problem i sometimes found with some pairs was getting them to match output wise. For that reason i would be wary about sourcing them from different places. Try to get an original pair.
Most of the time i would prefer the more open cardioid pattern that they had compared to the 184's. Plus the 414 generally wouldn't need EQ. Not the case with 184's.
Then got a pair of Sennheiser MKH 40 which are now favorites for overhead. If i'm feeling brave, the 414's now go on to toms (absolute killers for toms.. incredible!)... or failing that, ambients (very effective in MS configuration or blumlein).
414's rule! Get 6 of them...
Old 3rd November 2007
  #13
Here for the gear
 

thanks for all the opinions posted, but im sorry to say im still right in the middle....good arguments for both sides. will just have to get both somehow.

thanks all
Old 3rd November 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 
bannerj's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
AKG can be omni, figure of 8, etc so it will give you more options to work with. Generally live concerts for years have always been with omni mic's. I would go with the AKG
Really? I have a friend who swears by omnis live but I'm afraid of too much bleed. I'll have to try it out.

I love omnis in OH in the studio though.
Old 3rd November 2007
  #15
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
If you want something really sweet and very cool, try finding a pair of Gefell 692 bodies with M70 caps. Those are the nickle caps.

Really, really sweet on the top end. A little brighter than KM84, but a lot smoother than 184's. A great combo. And they can still be found at bargain prices, but I doubt for long....

I had 4. Sold 2, but still have a pair. Kicking myself for selling the others....
Old 3rd November 2007
  #16
Gear Addict
 
nicpope's Avatar
 

The only 414's I have ever actually liked are the 414 B-XL II's. They make wicked overheads. I'm kind of over the km184. It's got a very hard sort of sound which sometimes works, but it feels like more of a one trick pony (sound wise). What I'm getting at is that the different polar patterns on the 414's will be your friend.
Old 3rd November 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
leaper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
If you want something really sweet and very cool, try finding a pair of Gefell 692 bodies with M70 caps.
Yes!! Totally agree.. i love gefells in general. I know the combination you mention and would go further to say get 692's with any head.. also M94.
Great for drums. The 692/M94 is my all time favorite for timbale.
Old 3rd November 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 
allencollins's Avatar
 

any of the 414's are good for overheads or room mics
but the B-XLS and B-ULS I like the best. If you can find some
uls's those are the ones. But the XLS is very similar
Old 3rd November 2007
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
any of the 414's are good for overheads or room mics
but the B-XLS and B-ULS I like the best. If you can find some
uls's those are the ones. But the XLS is very similar
To my ears, the C414-B is somewhat honky and bright in the upper midrange. It also seems to sound distant even 4 feet from the snare drum. If I used the c414 for OH's, I might be fixing problems in mix down trying to save the life and space of the kit.

Now a 1st gen C414, thats a different story.

peace
Old 3rd November 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 
tamasdragon's Avatar
 

But if you must choose, than go with the 414. The km is strident and can be quite harsh sounding, and not only when you compare it to it's older brother.
Go with the AKG.
Tamas Dragon
Old 3rd November 2007
  #21
Gear Addict
 
lane thaw's Avatar
 

Do yourself a favor and audition the Gefell 930's. I took my pair to a studio who always used 414's. Left the mics with him for a few months. When I took them back, he cursed me and had to buy a pair. They do great double duty on Grand Piano and Acoustic Inst. I've never loved the 184s.
Old 3rd November 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 
allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
To my ears, the C414-B is somewhat honky and bright in the upper midrange. It also seems to sound distant even 4 feet from the snare drum. If I used the c414 for OH's, I might be fixing problems in mix down trying to save the life and space of the kit.

Now a 1st gen C414, thats a different story.

peace


Wow!!! honky?? Maybe you should try higher end pres then? Maybe your room acoustics are not on the level?? Then again you could always tune the drums or try another kit so they don't have any 'honk' to capture in the first place.

"fixing problems in mix" yawn
Old 3rd November 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
leaper's Avatar
 

No honks here either! Now.. if we were talking about the C3000...
honks like a saxophone playing goose blowing it's nose through a model T Ford hooter.
Old 3rd November 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

I prefer a large diaphragm over a small for ovrhds, so 414's here. Love the small diaphragm on rides, hats, acoustics, perc.

I have a pair of the B/ULS, but like the TL-II better

Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities
Old 3rd November 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
tamasdragon's Avatar
 

And also the dpa 3521 compact cardioid stereo pair is a very good choice, if not the best! You should hear it to beleive it.
Tamas Dragon
Old 3rd November 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
PhilE's Avatar
Two valid options- for me the 184 gives a nice "top kit" and the 414 is a great all round picture overhead.
I've used the 414 A LOT as overs.
Old 3rd November 2007
  #27
Lives for gear
I've owned both 184's and 414's.

I sold the 184's -- a little too much high end boost for my taste. GS users tend to really take down the reputation of the 184's but they are fairly decent mics.

I liked the 414 B-XLS (or what ever variant they called it made for instruments a few years ago). I own a stereo set now and plan on keeping them - very versitile mics.

The 414 XL II, I did not like on instruments due to too much high end boost. AKG recomends this 414 for vox and some solo instuments - it did not fare well with piano.

Hope this helps.
Old 6th November 2007
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
Wow!!! honky?? Maybe you should try higher end pres then? Maybe your room acoustics are not on the level?? Then again you could always tune the drums or try another kit so they don't have any 'honk' to capture in the first place.

"fixing problems in mix" yawn
Are you kidding?

Adam Brass
Mercenary Audio
Old 6th November 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 
allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Are you kidding?

Adam Brass
Mercenary Audio
No not kidding. Actually I thought you were?? guess not.
having to fix problems in mix down is just poor planning and
inexperience during tracking. Plain and simple.


sworry
Old 6th November 2007
  #30
Gear Addict
 
joninc's Avatar
 

the 414 b-uls are nice and chunky. not overly bright and pretty unhyped to my ears. great if you use overheads as a big part of your drum sound. i love them as a blumlein rm pair for drums. FAT.

if you really just want the overheads for "cymbal" mics - than the kms will be smoother and brighter - crisper for something like that.

i think it sort of depends if you like things a little more zippy and bright or a little more understated and thick.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
John_McEnroe / High End
90
dpianomn / High End
6
wdw / So Much Gear, So Little Time
8
Bernard / So Much Gear, So Little Time
1

Forum Jump
Forum Jump