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Quad 8 .... whats the skinny? Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 2nd April 2008
  #151
Here for the gear
 

Yeah, I've seen that. That's not the Beach Boys' console that was in their home studio. Neat though!

Thanks for pointing me to that article as well. I'm still interested if it's true that that Beach Boys system was responsible for bringing Quad-8 from a 2 man operation to 65 people, and putting it on the map as an entity.
Old 2nd April 2008
  #152
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
2,000,000 for the board. I'll take it!!!
Old 2nd April 2008
  #153
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Hoisington View Post
Yeah, I've seen that. That's not the Beach Boys' console that was in their home studio. Neat though!

Thanks for pointing me to that article as well. I'm still interested if it's true that that Beach Boys system was responsible for bringing Quad-8 from a 2 man operation to 65 people, and putting it on the map as an entity.
Hi Josh,

You can call David Geren over at Cinemag (he was one of the last employees left at Q8 when Mitsubishi bought them out) to find out the answer. Or next time I talk to him I'll ask.

I doubt it was just the beach boys as Bud was taking orders for years and having Edyne build them, he would just re-brand them basically in the early days. Warner Bros, Bearsville, Wally Heiders, Hollywood Bowl, etc... and a bunch of others had Q8 consoles at the time as well.
Old 11th April 2011
  #154
Gear Addict
 

LA24 line amps are pretty cool too.
Old 12th April 2011
  #155
Lives for gear
 
axisdreamer's Avatar
I have a pair of q8 la24 line amps from Neil Youngs console that I want to rack into mic pres.I bet they will sound nice when done!!Perhaps I'll check with Ken and see if he has any kits to rack them. Another idea was to use these line amps in my Auditronics console as the main outputs.Bet that would make the console sound even better than it already does!!!
Old 18th April 2011
  #156
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Quad-Eight was the second high-end recording console manufacturer in the United States that was started by some of the engineers from Electrodyne which had been the first. After several years as the leading console manufacturer, API took over most of their market because we all LOVED the 550 equalizer which was the first really first class console equalizer.

Deane Jensen left Quad-Eight to manufacture upgrade opamps and transformers for API consoles because many people considered the basic API signal path to be a significant step down from Quad-Eight.
cool historical info
Old 10th August 2015
  #157
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Wolff Designs View Post
I stand by my statement, QE did not ever sound as good. If it did, people would be restoring them instead of dumping them in the Demptsy Dempster.
Here we are 10 years later and the price of Quad Eight/Electrodyne stuff has gone through the roof....small frame (12-24 channel) restored boards are selling in the $15k-$50k range on eBay, Orphan, sonic circus, etc. and single modules are going for $1,000+!

Electrodyne, the company, has been "reborn" and has been very successful with its 501 pre and 511 EQ, which sell for about $1,000 each and get great reviews!

The A Designs version of the "unremarkable" IC-based Q8 Pacifica pre is widely regarded across the industry as one of the best sounding (and best selling) preamps to come out in several decades...although many people still prefer the original Q8 version.

With all due respect, your very own metrics (popularity, price point, restoration value/demand) has proven what many others (including Bob Olhsson) already knew; the Electrodyne/Q8 stuff is not only on par with Neve, API, etc. but arguably BETTER for many applications.

I just picked up a 12x4x2 custom MM71 console that I'll be restoring and building a custom oak desk for....it will be my main tracking/mixing console and I don't plan on ever selling it.
Old 10th August 2015
  #158
@jdurango
Congrats on the desk man! Pics please.

Back in the days of ADAT/Mackie/3630(i made more cash off that set up,sheesh)
I went to the ****tiest scariest building in Hollywood to check out an empty space.
The dude showed me the dirty **** hole,then said hey wanna check out my room?

So we go to his slightly less ****ty room,he specialized in the Banda/mariache market.
He hits play on a 1" 8 track and blows my world apart,fat, clear,beautiful.

What is that little desk i ask?
Quad 8 was the reply,12 inputs,cream colored gem.

Never heard of it,will never forget it.
He sent me back to bitch school.

Quad Great is more like it.
Old 10th August 2015
  #159
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueflag View Post
@jdurango
Congrats on the desk man! Pics please.

Back in the days of ADAT/Mackie/3630(i made more cash off that set up,sheesh)
I went to the ****tiest scariest building in Hollywood to check out an empty space.
The dude showed me the dirty **** hole,then said hey wanna check out my room?

So we go to his slightly less ****ty room,he specialized in the Banda/mariache market.
He hits play on a 1" 8 track and blows my world apart,fat, clear,beautiful.

What is that little desk i ask?
Quad 8 was the reply,12 inputs,cream colored gem.

Never heard of it,will never forget it.
He sent me back to bitch school.

Quad Great is more like it.
Haha, that's awesome man! If he was rolling an MCI JH110 1" 8-track, we may have been separated at birth lol

Mine is even cream colored (like my MCI tape) and needs a lot of work (like my MCI tape used to) but is gunna look and SOUND absolutely gorgeous and be worth all the hard work when she's done!

Unfortunately the GS pic uploaded sucks balls on mobile so can't attach anything here. I'll try later on a PC.
Old 10th August 2015
  #160
My old band tracked on a Q8 Coronado. It's creamy, smooth and big. I've never heard an SM7 sound so good as it did running through that console.
Old 10th August 2015
  #161
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdurango View Post
Here we are 10 years later and the price of Quad Eight/Electrodyne stuff has gone through the roof....small frame (12-24 channel) restored boards are selling in the $15k-$50k range on eBay, Orphan, sonic circus, etc. and single modules are going for $1,000+!

Electrodyne, the company, has been "reborn" and has been very successful with its 501 pre and 511 EQ, which sell for about $1,000 each and get great reviews!

The A Designs version of the "unremarkable" IC-based Q8 Pacifica pre is widely regarded across the industry as one of the best sounding (and best selling) preamps to come out in several decades...although many people still prefer the original Q8 version.

With all due respect, your very own metrics (popularity, price point, restoration value/demand) has proven what many others (including Bob Olhsson) already knew; the Electrodyne/Q8 stuff is not only on par with Neve, API, etc. but arguably BETTER for many applications.

I just picked up a 12x4x2 custom MM71 console that I'll be restoring and building a custom oak desk for....it will be my main tracking/mixing console and I don't plan on ever selling it.
Actually, with all due respect, I've been running a Pacifica for 17 years and I assure you it is not an IC-based console. The only ICs are used as relay drivers and mostly gain management in the very sweet sounding EQ section.
Old 10th August 2015
  #162
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Addison View Post
Actually, with all due respect, I've been running a Pacifica for 17 years and I assure you it is not an IC-based console. The only ICs are used as relay drivers and mostly gain management in the very sweet sounding EQ section.
Ok yeah, I was wondering about that, cause I know the A Designs Pacifica is all discreet....i just thought I remembered Paul saying at some point the later Q8 stuff all switched to all IC's, although I could be wrong about that.

I do know the overall quality started to decline as they instituted cost cutting measures towards the late 70's and especially with the Westrex period and being acquired by Mitsubishi. Fortunately, it sounds like the Pacifica wasn't affected by that!

Last edited by jdurango; 10th August 2015 at 08:13 PM..
Old 10th August 2015
  #163
Here for the gear
 

Correct! The Pacifica, Ventura and Coronado consoles were based on the AM10 discrete op amp. The last one before they bought Westrex and started using ICs.
Old 10th August 2015
  #164
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Wow, old thread revived!

Here you go... I wrote this 10 years ago and caused much of the mess that is Edyne Q8 and Sphere today... took over a year to write and fact check (something no longer done today with most writers). I beta tested all the remakes and probably have owned more of this gear than anyone on the face of this planet. Enjoy...

The History of Electrodyne Quad-Eight and Sphere
Old 10th August 2015
  #165
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Wow, old thread revived!

Here you go... I wrote this 10 years ago and caused much of the mess that is Edyne Q8 and Sphere today... took over a year to write and fact check (something no longer done today with most writers). I beta tested all the remakes and probably have owned more of this gear than anyone on the face of this planet. Enjoy...

The History of Electrodyne Quad-Eight and Sphere
This is actually one of the first articles I read when researching my MM71 console! Thanks so much for taking the time to write it (and like you said) do a proper job of it!

I've wanted a Quad Eight/Electrodyne console ever since I heard about them being used at Motown. I could never afford one until now and landed what SEEMS to be a pretty great deal on a small custom console assembled in the 70's. Unfortunately, it looks like it's been rode hard and put away wet since the 70's...will require a lot of work to get in tip-top shape, but it's the only way I could afford one, with prices being what they are today.

If anyone has MM71/61/310/712/etc modules for sale, please let me know. I'll need 4 more to fill the 12 space frame.
Old 10th August 2015
  #166
Gear Head
 
orphanaudio's Avatar
 

More QEE and Electrodyne History

Ok, A lot of data flying around, mostly accurate, but a few details missing that should be added in. I'll attempt to inject as little opinion as possible as that just seems to attract flamers. Also, I don't post very often, so this might take a while to read thru............

---------------------------------------

-Quad-Eight Stock Console Series (Coronado, Ventura, Pacifica): Brought out in the mid 70,s to compete with the new low cost "Cookie Cutter" consoles from MCI, Harrison and others.
The "Stock Series Consoles" are hybrid desks, which means discrete transistor opamps (AM-10) and Reichenbach built transformers for the entire critical mixing signal path. IC,s are partially used in the less demanding Echo/Cue paths. While the EQ333 equalizer section uses carefully selected type IC,s for the eq networks (an ic implementation of the API 550a in fact), a discrete AM-10 is still the final output amp for each eq.

-------------------------------------------

-A-Designs Pacifica: This is a clone of our QEE preamp used in the legendary Stock Series desks. The person who built this new clone did make significant changes to the opamp, and selected different (standard Cinemag) transformers. None of these changes should be considered bad however, and it is a good sounding preamp. Opamp changes were apparently made due to availability and cost of parts primarily and potential difficulty making the original design stable with newly selected parts. Transformer changes were likely made because of restricted proprietary access to original QEE designs and availability of new Cinemag,s that were close enough to the original QE parts.
The original design for this preamp came from Melcor in the late 60,s. The Melcor design was copied by API as the 312 preamp when some of Melcor's employees left for API, and still later, the QE Stock Consoles preamps were designed as a copy of the API 312 when a key employee of API left to work for Quad-Eight. Effectively the A-Designs preamp is the next copy in that lineage. Most importantly though the opamp is still an all discrete transistor design.

Side note: All opamps for the above mentioned preamps (and hundreds of other designs) are based on original late 60's opamp designs from Analog Devices and Philbrick Researches, who also originated the industry standard 1-1/8" square amp module still used to this day.


--------------------------------------------

History of QEE and IC,s:
-1962-1969: All custom boards made by Quad-Eight Sound (not Quad-Eight Electronics YET!) were built using mostly discrete Langevin and later (ic based) Electrodyne parts. Quad-Eight Sound's original business was exclusively building movie sound dubbing equipment and mix stages for the major film studios.
When a theft occurred the night before QES was to deliver their largest film mixing desk (at that time) they went back to Electrodyne to purchase replacement parts and were told that the backorder on parts was many months due to Electrodyne's success building consoles for the music industry. QES decided they would have to build their own parts to meet the new deadline and since the customer insisted the replacement modules had to at least look and function like the pre-theft console, they modeled the look of Electrodyne, but not the electronics. As a result of those unfortunate circumstances, Quad-Eight Electronics was born and the famous MM-61 channel was designed, although with different opamps, different voltage rails and a much more flexible eq section that the Electrodyne modules they replaced.
NOTE: Oddly enough, all early Electrodyne modules have IC based opamps inside (709L channel strip), but the QEE MM-61s that replaced them used all discrete transistor opamps instead. Quad-Eight Electronics still makes all discrete opamps for most of their new product designs.

-1970-1974: Still all discrete music and film consoles and outboard alongside the music and broadcast business of Electrodyne, but QE had started experimenting with the new IC,s in selected products, Deane Jensen at the helm for some of this time period and extensive discrete opamp improvements, Reichenbach engineering making all transformers (also for Electrodyne, but that is another story).

-1975-mid 1980,s: QEE is a leader in music and Film desks worldwide and announces the hybrid design Stock Series desks to compete with "cookie cutter" desks from MCI, Harrison, Trident, Amek and others while retaining a completely discrete signal path to remain competitive with full custom discrete desks like API. Electrodyne loses market share due to several corporate acquisitions and management changes (the founders of Electrodyne went on to start Sphere Electronics at this time). Hybrid designs became the norm for QEE, carefully mixing discrete and ic circuits for function and cost savings without compromising sonics, where almost all their competitors had switched to purely ic construction.

-Late 1980,s: Mitsubishi acquires Quad-Eight intending to use the company as a platform to market their X-80 series digital tape machines to the US market. This marked the significant change-over to all radically different all IC consoles for QE. Unfortunately the US market did not respond to the changes in console design and business practices as the Japanese investors hoped, and along with the changing US music and post-production market as well as various related economic pressures, Mitsubishi was unable to make the changes required to keep QE as a leader in the market. (same fate for MCI to Sony and Sound Workshop to Otari). Mitsubishi abandoned QEE and Orphan Audio began acquiring their assets in the early 1990s.

-1991 to present: Orphan Audio LLC acquired and restored QEE manufacturing assets, designs and trademarks, re-opening the Quad-Eight factory doors in our new location in Santa Susana , California; rebuilding the brand name with handbuilt custom designs and providing expert service and restoration, parts, documentation and consulting on classic QEE consoles and rackmount products.


This all ties in nicely with this clip below from Josh, quoting QE's founder Bud Bennet about the early rapid genesis of Quad-Eight Electronics from the humble beginnings of Quad-Eight Sound.

Quote:
"The consoles were built by Quad-Eight Sound (owned by Bud Bennet) but based on designs by Electrodyne (John Hall, engineer). The consoles were electrodyne modules re-worked by Quad-8 to meet my deadline. I needed all this equipment built within a month time-frame. I went from one console builder to another, but none could meet my time-table. Only Bud Bennet said “yes” to all my demands and he qot the contract. Under that contract, Quad-8 went from a two-person operation to a 65 person payroll. It put Quad-8 on the map and the company when on to build many fine consoles for motion picture studios and recording studios."
As mentioned before, Quad-Eight Sound built their earliest desks (pre 70,s) with Electrodyne parts, only having to begin building their own designs after a midnight theft of all Electrodyne parts from one of their large film desks just as it was being readied to ship.

Josh,
Those first original Quad-Eight Electronics design channel strips are the legendary QEE MM-61. The previous Quad-Eight Sound desks were built with Electrodyne 709L channel strips.

--------------------------------------

Electrodyne:
-2002 to present:
Orphan Audio acquired all remaining manufacturing assets, inventory and entire original document archives of Electrodyne (and Langevin, purchased by Electrodyne in the early 70,s).
New products released starting in 2008 (501 and 2501 preamp, 511 and 2511 eq) Support for classic products and consoles continues, new designs slated for release late 2015 and new custom consoles ordered and/or delivered in the last two years.

BTW: David Geren was in fact a design engineer at Electrodyne not QEE, and is the current owner of Cinemag, having been Tom Reichenbach's (RIP) business partner there for many-many years. David is an incredibly talented electronic and magnetics design engineer and continues to expand Cinemag's capabilities and reputation as the leader in custom OEM audio transformers and inductors worldwide.

----------------------------------------

12x4x2 Studio Consultants NYC, QE desk:
I was communicating with the previous owner of that desk and had considered purchasing it (incredible price!!!!) , but with several classic QEE and Electrodyne desks in restoration, and new console and product builds in the shop now, I could not take on another project so soon. We have NOS and restored channel strips, spare parts, modules and service documents for the QEE parts of this custom desk. If you are looking to repair/restore, expand or simply keep spares on hand, please let us know how we can be of assistance.




Thank you,

Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio LLC Orphan Audio
Quad-Eight Electronics™ LLC Quad Eight Electronics
Electrodyne Audio™ www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio LLC)
email: [email protected]
mobile/text: 818 632-2496

"Education is the cure for everything"

Last edited by orphanaudio; 10th August 2015 at 11:21 PM.. Reason: spelling, context
Old 11th August 2015
  #167
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by orphanaudio View Post
Ok, A lot of data flying around, mostly accurate, but a few details missing that should be added in. I'll attempt to inject as little opinion as possible as that just seems to attract flamers. Also, I don't post very often, so this might take a while to read thru............

---------------------------------------

-Quad-Eight Stock Console Series (Coronado, Ventura, Pacifica): Brought out in the mid 70,s to compete with the new low cost "Cookie Cutter" consoles from MCI, Harrison and others.
The "Stock Series Consoles" are hybrid desks, which means discrete transistor opamps (AM-10) and Reichenbach built transformers for the entire critical mixing signal path. IC,s are partially used in the less demanding Echo/Cue paths. While the EQ333 equalizer section uses carefully selected type IC,s for the eq networks (an ic implementation of the API 550a in fact), a discrete AM-10 is still the final output amp for each eq.

-------------------------------------------

-A-Designs Pacifica: This is a clone of our QEE preamp used in the legendary Stock Series desks. The person who built this new clone did make significant changes to the opamp, and selected different (standard Cinemag) transformers. None of these changes should be considered bad however, and it is a good sounding preamp. Opamp changes were apparently made due to availability and cost of parts primarily and potential difficulty making the original design stable with newly selected parts. Transformer changes were likely made because of restricted proprietary access to original QEE designs and availability of new Cinemag,s that were close enough to the original QE parts.
The original design for this preamp came from Melcor in the late 60,s. The Melcor design was copied by API as the 312 preamp when some of Melcor's employees left for API, and still later, the QE Stock Consoles preamps were designed as a copy of the API 312 when a key employee of API left to work for Quad-Eight. Effectively the A-Designs preamp is the next copy in that lineage. Most importantly though the opamp is still an all discrete transistor design.

Side note: All opamps for the above mentioned preamps (and hundreds of other designs) are based on original late 60's opamp designs from Analog Devices and Philbrick Researches, who also originated the industry standard 1-1/8" square amp module still used to this day.


--------------------------------------------

History of QEE and IC,s:
-1962-1969: All custom boards made by Quad-Eight Sound (not Quad-Eight Electronics YET!) were built using mostly discrete Langevin and later (ic based) Electrodyne parts. Quad-Eight Sound's original business was exclusively building movie sound dubbing equipment and mix stages for the major film studios.
When a theft occurred the night before QES was to deliver their largest film mixing desk (at that time) they went back to Electrodyne to purchase replacement parts and were told that the backorder on parts was many months due to Electrodyne's success building consoles for the music industry. QES decided they would have to build their own parts to meet the new deadline and since the customer insisted the replacement modules had to at least look and function like the pre-theft console, they modeled the look of Electrodyne, but not the electronics. As a result of those unfortunate circumstances, Quad-Eight Electronics was born and the famous MM-61 channel was designed, although with different opamps, different voltage rails and a much more flexible eq section that the Electrodyne modules they replaced.
NOTE: Oddly enough, all early Electrodyne modules have IC based opamps inside (709L channel strip), but the QEE MM-61s that replaced them used all discrete transistor opamps instead. Quad-Eight Electronics still makes all discrete opamps for most of their new product designs.

-1970-1974: Still all discrete music and film consoles and outboard alongside the music and broadcast business of Electrodyne, but QE had started experimenting with the new IC,s in selected products, Deane Jensen at the helm for some of this time period and extensive discrete opamp improvements, Reichenbach engineering making all transformers (also for Electrodyne, but that is another story).

-1975-mid 1980,s: QEE is a leader in music and Film desks worldwide and announces the hybrid design Stock Series desks to compete with "cookie cutter" desks from MCI, Harrison, Trident, Amek and others while retaining a completely discrete signal path to remain competitive with full custom discrete desks like API. Electrodyne loses market share due to several corporate acquisitions and management changes (the founders of Electrodyne went on to start Sphere Electronics at this time). Hybrid designs became the norm for QEE, carefully mixing discrete and ic circuits for function and cost savings without compromising sonics, where almost all their competitors had switched to purely ic construction.

-Late 1980,s: Mitsubishi acquires Quad-Eight intending to use the company as a platform to market their X-80 series digital tape machines to the US market. This marked the significant change-over to all radically different all IC consoles for QE. Unfortunately the US market did not respond to the changes in console design and business practices as the Japanese investors hoped, and along with the changing US music and post-production market as well as various related economic pressures, Mitsubishi was unable to make the changes required to keep QE as a leader in the market. (same fate for MCI to Sony and Sound Workshop to Otari). Mitsubishi abandoned QEE and Orphan Audio began acquiring their assets in the early 1990s.

-1991 to present: Orphan Audio LLC acquired and restored QEE manufacturing assets, designs and trademarks, re-opening the Quad-Eight factory doors in our new location in Santa Susana , California; rebuilding the brand name with handbuilt custom designs and providing expert service and restoration, parts, documentation and consulting on classic QEE consoles and rackmount products.


This all ties in nicely with this clip below from Josh, quoting QE's founder Bud Bennet about the early rapid genesis of Quad-Eight Electronics from the humble beginnings of Quad-Eight Sound.


As mentioned before, Quad-Eight Sound built their earliest desks (pre 70,s) with Electrodyne parts, only having to begin building their own designs after a midnight theft of all Electrodyne parts from one of their large film desks just as it was being readied to ship.

Josh,
Those first original Quad-Eight Electronics design channel strips are the legendary QEE MM-61. The previous Quad-Eight Sound desks were built with Electrodyne 709L channel strips.

--------------------------------------

Electrodyne:
-2002 to present:
Orphan Audio acquired all remaining manufacturing assets, inventory and entire original document archives of Electrodyne (and Langevin, purchased by Electrodyne in the early 70,s).
New products released starting in 2008 (501 and 2501 preamp, 511 and 2511 eq) Support for classic products and consoles continues, new designs slated for release late 2015 and new custom consoles ordered and/or delivered in the last two years.

BTW: David Geren was in fact a design engineer at Electrodyne not QEE, and is the current owner of Cinemag, having been Tom Reichenbach's (RIP) business partner there for many-many years. David is an incredibly talented electronic and magnetics design engineer and continues to expand Cinemag's capabilities and reputation as the leader in custom OEM audio transformers and inductors worldwide.

----------------------------------------

12x4x2 Studio Consultants NYC, QE desk:
I was communicating with the previous owner of that desk and had considered purchasing it (incredible price!!!!) , but with several classic QEE and Electrodyne desks in restoration, and new console and product builds in the shop now, I could not take on another project so soon. We have NOS and restored channel strips, spare parts, modules and service documents for the QEE parts of this custom desk. If you are looking to repair/restore, expand or simply keep spares on hand, please let us know how we can be of assistance.




Thank you,

Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio LLC Orphan Audio
Quad-Eight Electronics™ LLC Quad Eight Electronics
Electrodyne Audio™ www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio LLC)
email: [email protected]
mobile/text: 818 632-2496

"Education is the cure for everything"
Hey Ken,

Thanks a ton for all the great info! Yeah the seller is a great dude and worked with me a bit on the price.....I'm REALLY glad I was able to snag it up, not only because I've always dreamed of owning a Quad Eight console, but also because I'd hate to see it parted out....or even restored simply for the purpose of turning a profit. I plan to spend many years and lots of money making this desk into something I can be very proud of and pass on to my next of kin. Honestly, I have a feeling, like with my MCI jh110, that the very low "price of entry" on this console may be quickly outweighed by repair and maintenance costs, but that's fine with me.

Anyhow, thanks again for posting here. I tried to register on your forum but the verification process doesn't seem to be possible to complete with a mobile browser (tried 3 different browsers on 2 different phones/OS's; Stock Android and chrome browser + iPhone)

Anyhow, I'll see ya there soon once I can get to a PC to complete registration. BTW, I'd love to turn my board into a 16x4x2 if possible....and I'm sure I'll be contacting you about parts and/or service. Thanks again Ken!
Old 11th August 2015
  #168
Great thread!
I am getting Quad Eight fever.

Thanks to Silvertone,and Orphan Audio for the historical knowledge.

I did not realize the kinship to API,and also all of the classic records
cut on Q8.

I am curious about the difference between the AM10 and 2520 op amps.

Maybe someone could start a thread on Melcor.
They seemed to have splintered off into several amazing companies.

How about some crazy colored Q8 porn pics?
Bring it!
Old 11th August 2015
  #169
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Great info Ken.

David is the one who told me he worked for Quad Eight. He told me that when I was writing the article and when I had him and Tom reproduce some transformers for my Electrodyne Acc1204 console.

Don King (sales manage at Electrodyne) told me they OEM'd the consoles for Q8 in the early days, untill the theft occurred.

The actual narration that Don sent to me is under this site my intern built years ago. Under the "audio history" section... Electrodyne Audio Equipment
Old 11th August 2015
  #170
Gear Head
 
orphanaudio's Avatar
 

I had to call Cinemag to get lead times on new parts today and David confirmed he never worked for or even consulted for QEE at any time. His work at Electrodyne / MCA technology however is impressive including participating in the concept and design of the compact disc here in Los Angeles (eventually licensed to Sony and Phillips, who are still somehow credited for the invention).

Early QES desks using Electrodyne parts :
Yes, Electrodyne did supply the majority of (OEM) parts for the few earliest Quad-Eight Sound consoles (before Quad-Eight Electronics started building their own designs in the late 60,s), but the actual design and construction of all those early QES desks was handled by Bud Bennett and his small crew at Quad-Eight Sound.
I have yet to see an Electrodyne module engraved with a QE logo as has been rumoured. If anyone has one, please post pictures of the front panel and internals so I can identify and confirm board revision and year of manufacture against the Electrodyne factory records.

RE: Orphan Audio Forums:
We are rebuilding the forums again after another attack (BBS software is particularly vulnerable and a big target for lazy hackers), so those pages will be eventually updated and some mobile friendliness added-in.


The close connections of designers and recording console design in the US (and elsewhere): (or " its a really small world out there")
Its amazing how much cross-pollenation exists in the pro-audio market if viewed from outside, but it is even more incredible if you realize how few companies (in total since the 60,s to now) designed and built true pro-level large format recording consoles. Compare that to the number of automobile manufacturers around the world along with their various brands and models and see how big that number is compared to actual large format console manufacturers. If you remember in the early 80,s the really big names for Film or Music were Quad-Eight, Neve, API, Harrison, Amek, MCI and SSL, everyone else was a small company making custom one-off desks or building much less expensive products for different markets like live-concert or broadcast.
Knowing that tiny number and how competitive the business, its inevitable that they studied each others work and often communicated with each other to improve each successive design. Many companies rose and fell as the industry and economy changed and a majority of the key design engineers worked for more than one of these legendary companies at different times in their lives. Everything they learned at one company was brought with them to the next,....... and so on down the line. Deeper study of common design parallels, as they apply to each company, will also help you understand and see each companies differing design philosophies and what drove it (market segment, price, customer demands, etc..) and why each companies consoles were built as they were.
All that taken into account, its no wonder that console design rapidly evolved in parallel across the US, and in fact the world, and that design ideas and innovations moving from one major company to another were (and often still are) very common.

Thank you,

Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio LLC Orphan Audio
Quad-Eight Electronics™ LLC Quad Eight Electronics
Electrodyne Audio™ www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio LLC)
email: [email protected]
mobile/text: 818 632-2496

"Education is the cure for everything"
Old 12th August 2015
  #171
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Thanks Ken, I would have had to look through my notes from 12 years ago (or call David).

As for the Q above the E that was told to me by Don King and I believe it's on the recorded "audio history" section of the Electrodyne site I had built. Now it might have been the case for the first few consoles or strips as engraving a Q above an E would not be that had in Formica. The font is the same. Just as the Langevin font is the same as Western Electrics.

That said, Don got it wrong about the miniature tubes in the original Electrodyne tube gear. John Hall had told me a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't accurate as well and that took the longest to substantiate. Such is the case when dealing with 80 year old men. Hell in my mid 50's my mind wobbles so I can't really nail these guys to the cross over this, I'm just great full they share what memories they have left.

So glad I don't write articles about audio anymore.
Old 2nd September 2015
  #172
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Hi Ken,

I happen to run across my notes and it was David Gordon that worked for Q8 he was good friends with Tom Reichebach and hence the confusion. David worked for Josephson microphones when I interviewed him.

I also just ran across 5 pages of interviews with John Hall that I did when writing the "History" article. Very interesting stories and who he worked for as an audio engineer is amazing as well. What he helped pioneered is even more amazing.

I also ran across all the emails we corresponded on for the article back then. Glad I save everything!
Old 11th February 2016
  #173
Gear Head
 
orphanaudio's Avatar
 

David Gordon is literally my best friend since we met in the early 70,s as high school chums with a similar passion for audio electronics, and also happily agreed to be my best man when I married in 2002.
David was production manager for QEE in the years before Mitsubishi abandoned it and I began acquisition. David is now with Josephson Microphone.

David Gordon was also my introduction to Tom Reichenbach (RIP) and David Geren at Reichenbach engineering / Cinemag. David Geren's work at Electrodyne in the early 70,s is a constant source of reference for our new designs and remains to this day one of my closest engineering associates when I am working on new Electrodyne and Quad-Eight products.
Cinemag's ability to use experience generated from their huge library of original designs for companies like Langevin, Quad-Eight, Electrodyne, Sphere and many others, allows them to create almost any type of new or authentically classic transformer/inductor device you might need.
Mr. Geren has been instrumental in helping me specify new Electrodyne and QEE transformers and inductors, and often verifies the authenticity of my new Electrodyne product designs.
Most recently he created a special version of our legendary original Electrodyne design large frame output transformer used in the 511 eq, 501 pre and 1ru rackmount 2511 and 2501. The new design was first used in the Electrodyne Summing Station stereo mix-bus amplifiers and features specially design tertiary feedback windings and a modified magnetic stack to give the Summing Station its unique ability to entirely change its mix-bus character for two completely different mix bus sound,s, while retaining the authentic Electrodyne sonic,s.


Quad-Eight Sound (QES) consoles (using Electrodyne modules):
While the majority of Quad-Eight Sound consoles were made using modules purchased from Electrodyne, all construction was done by Bud Bennett and his employees at the Quad-Eight Sound factory.
Additionally, Bud Bennett never tried to hide the brand of the modules QES used, since at the time, Electrodyne was the leader in modular music and broadcast consoles and had the respect of the entire pro-audio community, with Electrodyne also having purchased the Langevin Corporation, another custom console giant known for its quality slide faders and broadcast business.
As far as information I have been presented or shown, there are no known examples, or physical evidence of, an authenticated Electrodyne module with Q over Electrodyne "E" markings in existence anywhere.

After QES (Quad-Eight Sound) officially became QEE (Quad-Eight Electronics) and began building their own design consoles, they ceased using Electrodyne parts. Some of the brightly colored square button, bus assign modules on one or two very early QEE desks resemble Electrodyne assigns, but more likely QEE purchased the exact same high-reliability Clare-Pendar brand switches and buttons and built their own custom assign modules.

While the Western Electric and Langevin typefaces are indeed remarkably similar, the Electrodyne "E" and Quad-Eight Q-over-E insignias have very little in common with letter shape and mechanical configuration. More importantly, there is absolutely no physical room above the engraved Electrodyne E on any input module they made to fit an engraved Q above. The Q would have been obliterated, ending up on the top of the strip securing hole and countersink. A similar situation exists in the case of the later Electrodyne 711 and 712 modules (which were designed long after Quad-Eight started making their own modules) where the "E" insignia is placed to the top left side of the module. An added Q would have run off the top edge of the modules Formica panel.


Ken Hirsch / Director of Engineering
Orphan Audio LLC Orphan Audio
Quad-Eight Electronics™ LLC Quad Eight Electronics
Electrodyne Audio™ www.electrodyneaudio.com (a division of Orphan Audio LLC)
email: [email protected]
mobile/text: 818 632-2496

"Education is the cure for everything"
Old 11th February 2016
  #174
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
Listen to what Don King sales manager for Electrodyne in the 60's had to say...

Audio History

When I did the article 12 years ago no one could confirm or deny the printing of the Q over the E, so it ended up in the article because that is what Don said. Nothing more. Same with the robbery that took place. According to Don, Bud Bennet used the delivery driver at Electrodyne to gain access. As you know, the truth lies somewhere in between.

After a year of trying to debunk what I was told, sent, given, I finally put the article out. John Hall had the most misinformation, Don King had the most information I could verify. I talked to everyone I could... as you know.

It's all old history now.
Old 11th February 2016
  #175
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
A good part of me is sorry I ever wrote that article. For many reasons.

12 years of explaining why I wrote what I wrote. You go talk to 80 and 90 year old engineers and see how fun it is to decipher through all the crap you're told. Hell, most writers don't even fact check their articles today. Who cares anyway?

Use whatever gear you got, learn the tools you own, make good music... It is way more important than any of this.
Old 11th February 2016
  #176
Gear Nut
 
Weepit's Avatar
 

There are maybe 7 people in the world who care about the Q's and E's. The article itself was fascinating and we are lucky you wrote it. Thank you kindly.
Old 12th February 2016
  #177
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