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Vocals: LA2A -> 1176 or 1176-> LA2A
Old 20th April 2004
  #1
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Sunshy's Avatar
 

Vocals: LA2A -> 1176 or 1176-> LA2A

I've read threads where people will use these in conjunction to get a super squeezed vocal track. I was thinking of going through the 1176 FIRST to tone down the peaks and then through the LA2A to even everything out.

I've read threads where people run the signal through the LA2A first and THEN the 1176. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as the the LA2A's attack is so sloppy. What is the reasoning for doing this? Is it six of one, half dozen the other?
Old 21st April 2004
  #2
Gear Head
 
beggehorn's Avatar
 

Though I don't have either of those "names" in my rack, I've found a Distressor (1176-ish, quick attack/release, 5-10 dB reduction) followed by my ADL (LA2A-ish opto, just a couple dB) works for me and makes more sense for the same reason you described.
Old 21st April 2004
  #3
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zimv20's Avatar
 

Re: Vocals: LA2A -> 1176 or 1176-> LA2A

Quote:
Originally posted by Sunshy
I was thinking of going through the 1176 FIRST to tone down the peaks and then through the LA2A to even everything out.
what happened when you tried it?
Old 21st April 2004
  #4
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Compressors in series works a treat, once you get the hang of it. Just set the first one with the higest ratio and each successive compressor with a ratio lower than the previous one. adjust attack/release and threshhold to taste.

Wiggy
Old 21st April 2004
  #5
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Sunshy's Avatar
 

I'm really behind on mixing a project this week. But next weel will try borh methods and post what I find. Thanks for the input guys.
Old 21st April 2004
  #6
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crypticglobe's Avatar
It really depends on what you are going for. The common trick with those 2 for pop vocals is:

LA-2A first. Set the meter to Gain Reduction, and it should be in "limit" mode. Adjust so the meter is just moving a little... not much. Then, into the 1176. Start with the knobs straight up. Adjust attack to slowest, and release to fastest. Use a ratio of either 4 or 8. Again, adjust so that you are just getting a little bit of needle movement.

You will find this to be VERY smooth.

I do a lot of rock... and I actually find that I like this combination.... but.... I get the needle going more on the LA-2A, and make the attack quicker on the 1176, and again... more compression (needle movement).

Recently, I have been using the UAD-1 freaking Fairchild 670 compressor Plug-In in Nuendo... GEEZ!!!! It's sounds really amazing for squashing a rock vocal vintage style. It sounds amazingly like the real deal. Not quite the distressor... but very close!
Old 29th April 2004
  #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by crypticglobe
It really depends on what you are going for. The common trick with those 2 for pop vocals is:

LA-2A first. Set the meter to Gain Reduction, and it should be in "limit" mode. Adjust so the meter is just moving a little... not much. Then, into the 1176. Start with the knobs straight up. Adjust attack to slowest, and release to fastest. Use a ratio of either 4 or 8. Again, adjust so that you are just getting a little bit of needle movement.

You will find this to be VERY smooth.

I do a lot of rock... and I actually find that I like this combination.... but.... I get the needle going more on the LA-2A, and make the attack quicker on the 1176, and again... more compression (needle movement).

Recently, I have been using the UAD-1 freaking Fairchild 670 compressor Plug-In in Nuendo... GEEZ!!!! It's sounds really amazing for squashing a rock vocal vintage style. It sounds amazingly like the real deal. Not quite the distressor... but very close!
I've been using the UAD-1 Fairchild too. You can really slam vocals and they dont have all the high frequency loss you would expect from 20 db of GR from the UAD-1 1176 or LA2A. In fact they seem to get brighter.

I think I remember TLA saying that he slams an LA3A and grabs the slow attack overshoots with something fast like an SSL comp after the opto. I imagine either way will work fine.
Old 30th March 2007
  #8
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theBackwardsman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
It really depends on what you are going for. The common trick with those 2 for pop vocals is:

LA-2A first. Set the meter to Gain Reduction, and it should be in "limit" mode. Adjust so the meter is just moving a little... not much. Then, into the 1176. Start with the knobs straight up. Adjust attack to slowest, and release to fastest. Use a ratio of either 4 or 8. Again, adjust so that you are just getting a little bit of needle movement.

You will find this to be VERY smooth.

I do a lot of rock... and I actually find that I like this combination.... but.... I get the needle going more on the LA-2A, and make the attack quicker on the 1176, and again... more compression (needle movement).

Recently, I have been using the UAD-1 freaking Fairchild 670 compressor Plug-In in Nuendo... GEEZ!!!! It's sounds really amazing for squashing a rock vocal vintage style. It sounds amazingly like the real deal. Not quite the distressor... but very close!

HmM I recently tried this one & it sounds kida wierd and PUMPY.
probably because of the slow attack on the 1176, but still, It gets kinda smooth so could it be That ive done something wrong. Im really interested in different ways to combine these two monsters.
Old 30th March 2007
  #9
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
LA-2A first. Set the meter to Gain Reduction, and it should be in "limit" mode. Adjust so the meter is just moving a little... not much. Then, into the 1176. Start with the knobs straight up. Adjust attack to slowest, and release to fastest. Use a ratio of either 4 or 8. Again, adjust so that you are just getting a little bit of needle movement.
Interesting. I've never liked the results of this order, but definitely a mileage may vary scenario.

Personally, I always prefer 1176 first at 4/8:1, med. fast attack/release into the LA2A on comp. Knocking a couple of dBs off on each unit. Sounds fairly natural but also somewhat 'finished' for lack of a better term and tends to sit really well in the mix.

Whatever works for ya!
Old 30th March 2007
  #10
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Damn i feel so stupid But i may have gotten this all wrong, but I thought 1 was the "fastest" and 7 " the slowest" But from what ive read about the 1176 it seems to be the other way around?
Old 31st March 2007
  #11
Gear Head
 
makeitwork's Avatar
 

wanna try something different? instead of slamming thru comps in series, split 'em out. mult the vocal to your LA-2A and 1176 separately. then maybe to some other stuff like something cheapo (alesis?) or your old dbx 160X or something. even pump another up with plugs (watch the phase). bring them up into separate faders on the desk and blend to taste.

if you need to skim some peaks, buss the tracks together and run the buss thru a clean fast limiter. or print it back to your DAW and skim it there. experiment. mix controls on that final compressor might be fun too.

FRS
Old 31st March 2007
  #12
High Fidelity
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by makeitwork View Post
wanna try something different? instead of slamming thru comps in series, split 'em out. mult the vocal to your LA-2A and 1176 separately. then maybe to some other stuff like something cheapo (alesis?) or your old dbx 160X or something. even pump another up with plugs (watch the phase). bring them up into separate faders on the desk and blend to taste.

if you need to skim some peaks, buss the tracks together and run the buss thru a clean fast limiter. or print it back to your DAW and skim it there. experiment. mix controls on that final compressor might be fun too.

FRS
Good advice: parallel compression = mixing together clean on one console channel and compressed on another channel can help you find out which compressor fits most to a specific voice for a specific song. Try to use the compressor near its knee as a starting point. LA-2A (smooth compressor) and 1176 (hard limiter) sound and compress very different, intended for different purposes. Watch your settings: excessive compression can not be un-done...
Old 1st April 2007
  #13
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SiliconAudioLab's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut View Post
Compressors in series works a treat, once you get the hang of it. Just set the first one with the higest ratio and each successive compressor with a ratio lower than the previous one. adjust attack/release and threshhold to taste.

Wiggy
Yer the best, Wiggy.
Old 11th June 2011
  #14
Gear Head
 
dinhtiendat's Avatar
 

LA2A have Limiter and Compressor....

What is different?
I switched but I couldn't hear the different...

Maybe my ears is too bad?
Let me know, Plz!!!

Thanks
Old 11th June 2011
  #15
If i where to do rock/metal the most logical way would be to use the La-2a as a limiter kind of, and then use the 1176 to get that nice edge to the vox
Old 13th June 2011
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

I've never managed to get this to sound right to my ears for some reason.

I tend to do a lot of volume automation and THEN hit the compressor.

I also compress a bit on the way in and will sometimes go LA2A in and 1176 out and sometimes vice versa.

joel
Old 13th June 2011
  #17
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i have both in the rack. and 1176 to la2a is the combination that makes sense. never seen anyone doing it the other way around. no point in my opinion. we use the 1176 to safe the la2a from overreacting to fast peaks. the other way around doesnt make much sense :-) it might still sound cool....but 1176-la2a ist the classic approach. sometimes even in nuke mode. just tickling the highest peaks a little.
Old 13th June 2011
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salomonander View Post
i have both in the rack. and 1176 to la2a is the combination that makes sense. never seen anyone doing it the other way around. no point in my opinion. we use the 1176 to safe the la2a from overreacting to fast peaks. the other way around doesnt make much sense :-) it might still sound cool....but 1176-la2a ist the classic approach. sometimes even in nuke mode. just tickling the highest peaks a little.
I usually record into 1176 at 4:1 into a Manley El Op, with 3-6 db reduction max on both. Really does a nice job most of the time without getting too squashed. Agree that I can't see the other way around, the El Op tends to overshoot too, but I usually am do under the gun to try switching things around much. Experiment if you get the chance!
Old 13th June 2011
  #19
i normally put the MC77 first, but there have been some vocals where the LA2A went first.
Old 14th June 2011
  #20
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBackwardsman View Post
Damn i feel so stupid But i may have gotten this all wrong, but I thought 1 was the "fastest" and 7 " the slowest" But from what ive read about the 1176 it seems to be the other way around?
Dont feel stupid... most of us have made that mistake... lol. They are indeed backwards from what you would expect.

With the above mentioned method... I find the result very smooth... not pumping, and nearly inaudible compression. If I want more of a "compressed" sound... I crank the input of the LA-2A, or (sometimes and) the 1176. When you hit it harder, you start to get a little more of that lovely "p" sound, and "s" sound and the thickness we all love.

When using the plug-in versions... even the UAD ones... I find that this method does not have the impact it does with the hardware. I recently found that using the softtube CL-1B and the UA1176 plugs can really get ya there though!

jmtc...
Old 14th June 2011
  #21
Gear Head
 

I would support the LA-2A as the front-end limiter as well. I never liked tracking with an 1176, I prefer it in mixing.
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