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Trident 80(b) -- how are you setting your monitoring levels ? Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 12th September 2007
  #1
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Trident 80(b) -- how are you setting your monitoring levels ?

Actually, this is a 3 part question and it relates to mixing tracks that have already been recorded in PT:

1) How do you start when setting your monitoring levels ? In other words, do you 1st have the remix master and monitor master in the max db position before bringing any line level signals into the board ? If so, when you bring each line level signal in to the channel strips do you find an ideal db level using the trim pot, and then move the fader back accordingly ? What is the ideal db level ? My meters go all the way to +8 !!

2) do you adjust your speaker volume levels on the speaker amp AFTER you have adjusted all your line level signals to ideal levels ? Some have told me to have the speaker volumes on the amp maxed out before you do anything at all, but like this I could never raise the stereo bus out to more than -2db before my ears will explode. Even with them set 1/2 way it can still be pretty loud with the remix and monitor master faders maxed out, and the 2 bus meter reading no more than -2db.

3) how hard do you hit the 2bus for the final mix ? The music I'm mixing is on the heavy rock side, more nu-metalish. The meter goes all the way to +8db. Do you go past 0db and a little into the red ? When I do this I have to bring the monitor master fader down to -10db or more, and my speaker amp levels cannot be any hotter than 1/2 the way or it seems like the woofers will explode. I'm just wondering if the ideal way is to turn the speaker amp volumes WAY down, and always have the remix and monitor master fader maxed out ?


Anyway, I know alot of this stuff probably fits in the "gain staging" category. I am new to this console, so I thought some others on here with more experience might be able to give this analog console newbie some advice. Right now i just want to mix some PT stuff using the 32 channel side of the console with the 5 band EQs. I'm using a pair of JBL LSR 32 speakers powered by a QSC RMX2450.
Old 13th September 2007
  #2
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jslstrat's Avatar
 

Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Actually, this is a 3 part question and it relates to mixing tracks that have already been recorded in PT:

1) How do you start when setting your monitoring levels ? In other words, do you 1st have the remix master and monitor master in the max db position before bringing any line level signals into the board ? If so, when you bring each line level signal in to the channel strips do you find an ideal db level using the trim pot, and then move the fader back accordingly ? What is the ideal db level ? My meters go all the way to +8 !!

2) do you adjust your speaker volume levels on the speaker amp AFTER you have adjusted all your line level signals to ideal levels ? Some have told me to have the speaker volumes on the amp maxed out before you do anything at all, but like this I could never raise the stereo bus out to more than -2db before my ears will explode. Even with them set 1/2 way it can still be pretty loud with the remix and monitor master faders maxed out, and the 2 bus meter reading no more than -2db.

3) how hard do you hit the 2bus for the final mix ? The music I'm mixing is on the heavy rock side, more nu-metalish. The meter goes all the way to +8db. Do you go past 0db and a little into the red ? When I do this I have to bring the monitor master fader down to -10db or more, and my speaker amp levels cannot be any hotter than 1/2 the way or it seems like the woofers will explode. I'm just wondering if the ideal way is to turn the speaker amp volumes WAY down, and always have the remix and monitor master fader maxed out ?


Anyway, I know alot of this stuff probably fits in the "gain staging" category. I am new to this console, so I thought some others on here with more experience might be able to give this analog console newbie some advice. Right now i just want to mix some PT stuff using the 32 channel side of the console with the 5 band EQs. I'm using a pair of JBL LSR 32 speakers powered by a QSC RMX2450.
Hi Sage,
The *Remix* should be at 0db only bring down( the remix fader) If you have to.(ie you have a great mix)But if the stereo buss meters are maxing out.You can bring down the remix fader a db or 2.Try to get in the habbit of bringing the mix up with the remix fader set at 0db But I always start with the stereo drums first. Because they are the loudest transients usually.Then bring the other instruments up in the mix. I am a bit confused on your master fader>?
On the Trident 80B It is a master fader(volume) rather than a STANDARD pot. This Is your master (Volume) as in a knob. So It should be barely up . If your fader is the same plate as my audio fad faders. I usually listen low volumes at -35 and loud at -20. My power amp volumes are FULL up
on the masters Left and Right. So you are basically now using the master volume fader( right of the remix fader) to control the output of the power amplifier. That is how I was always told how to run it. Now I use protools for edit only on my drums. I run iZ radar. Inside the radar I set the db digital levels to the console. I think Its +18 But I will have to check. Hope that helps! Trident 80 series rule...............
Old 13th September 2007
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslstrat View Post
Trident 80 series rule...............
Old 13th September 2007
  #4
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Hey sage! How's that thing working out for you otherwise? Karl brought stuff over to my studio to test it out back when he was working on it. It should sound amazing now!

-Aaron
Old 13th September 2007
  #5
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How hard stereo buss

3) how hard do you hit the 2bus for the final mix ? The music I'm mixing is on the heavy rock side, more nu-metalish. The meter goes all the way to +8db. Do you go past 0db and a little into the red ? When I do this I have to bring the monitor master fader down to -10db or more, and my speaker amp levels cannot be any hotter than 1/2 the way or it seems like the woofers will explode. I'm just wondering if the ideal way is to turn the speaker amp volumes WAY down, and always have the remix and monitor master fader maxed out ?

I like to keep the needles in the red bouncing between +2 and +3 But never steady above +3.
again your meters are different scale. But also listen for distortion of course. You can really see
how different every decade was on final mixes when you put in cds from the 60,s 70,s and 80,s
90,s and of course the 2000,s Most heavy rock is limited/squashed to hold steady at +3 now a days.
Old 13th September 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslstrat View Post
Hi Sage,
The *Remix* should be at 0db only bring down( the remix fader) If you have to.(ie you have a great mix)But if the stereo buss meters are maxing out.You can bring down the remix fader a db or 2.Try to get in the habbit of bringing the mix up with the remix fader set at 0db But I always start with the stereo drums first. Because they are the loudest transients usually.Then bring the other instruments up in the mix. I am a bit confused on your master fader>?
On the Trident 80B It is a master fader(volume) rather than a STANDARD pot. This Is your master (Volume) as in a knob. So It should be barely up . If your fader is the same plate as my audio fad faders. I usually listen low volumes at -35 and loud at -20. My power amp volumes are FULL up
on the masters Left and Right. So you are basically now using the master volume fader( right of the remix fader) to control the output of the power amplifier. That is how I was always told how to run it. Now I use protools for edit only on my drums. I run iZ radar. Inside the radar I set the db digital levels to the console. I think Its +18 But I will have to check. Hope that helps! Trident 80 series rule...............


Hey man thanks so much !!!

Yes, I also have that white "monitor master" fader to the right of the Remix fader. Your explanation on that pretty much answered all of my questions! It makes since now that since all that fader does is "feed" the control room speakers that it is OK to have it way down. Yeah, -35db for normal volume and -20db for loud (whilst having the CR amp cranked all the way up) makes ALOT of sense to me now!

I think what confused me is that when this tech came over to commission the board, he cranked the 2 channels on the CR speaker amp up to max and then turned BOTH the Remix and Monitor fader on the Trident up to 0db. So when I started bringing line signals into the board I had to keep them WAY below 0db or the volume in the CR would be deafening!

Keeping the Monitor fader between -35 and -20db will definitely solve this problem, I'm sure. I should be able to get each sound coming in from PT much hotter using the trim pots this way, which i believe is proper gain staging according to the manual.

Do you try to optimize the signal to noise ratio of each channel using the trim pots for final mixing, or do you control the out levels from PT exclusively within PT ? I like to solo each channel and adjust the trim pot so that it is over 0 db on its own meter, and then ride the fader down from there if necessary in the mix. I believe this is proper "gain staging" for mixing; what do you think ?
Old 13th September 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absrec View Post
Hey sage! How's that thing working out for you otherwise? Karl brought stuff over to my studio to test it out back when he was working on it. It should sound amazing now!

-Aaron
Hey Aaron,

Man, this has sure been a crazy ride for me. This console is kind of like a really fine young *itch with an attitude. First, Fedex dropped the power supply that Karl rebuilt passionately and the 1st time I hooked it up to the console (after having a "so called" local tech verify it was OK) it blew a resistor on the Echo Return module.

So I had to send that back to Karl for repair. Then, finally when I got that stuff back I hooked it up and realized ALOT of the faders were out due to old op amps that needed to be replaced! I have these Fadex faders (not the P & Gs) with VCAs, so this was just another hurdle I had to jump over. $50 from Mouser for replacement op amps, so no big deal really.

Then, I started realizing that old op amps were causing problems on about 16 of the 32 channels. Some were dead completely, others sounded like dog doo -- and so I started swapping out op amps from good cards to bad ones and suddenly the bad ones were all fixed. So that's how I figured out the op amps were the culprit. One card remains dead however even after swapping chips, so I'll have to send that one back to Karl for fixing.

Though it's been tough, man I have to say that I am speechless about how AWESOME the EQ is and what a difference it makes on the 3D-ness of the tracks! It totally blows me away how BIG I can make even a mono loop of something sound on 1 channel; I could never even come close to that using the Waves Renn EQ in PT. I like radical EQ, and so when using the EQs in PT the sound would always break up into mush before I could get where I wanted with it. Now it's all peaches and cream in this regard.

Concerning the faders, everybody tells me to dump the Fadex and get P & Gs; but I have P & Gs on the monitor side, and when running my drum machine in mono thru the monitor side i cannot hear that it sounds any better than the way it sounds on the other side thru the Fadex fader. So I do not think that the VCAs on the Fadex faders are really doing any harm. I have the blue rectangular "Allison Research"(Valley People) VCAs which John Klett says were good ones used in the Audio Kinetics stuff as well.

Still working out quirks, but the board is really blowing me away more each day. Just wish I would have held out for an 80C so I could have 56 channels of this 5 band EQ !!!
Old 13th September 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslstrat View Post
I like to keep the needles in the red bouncing between +2 and +3 But never steady above +3.
again your meters are different scale. But also listen for distortion of course. You can really see
how different every decade was on final mixes when you put in cds from the 60,s 70,s and 80,s
90,s and of course the 2000,s Most heavy rock is limited/squashed to hold steady at +3 now a days.
just wondering: do you print your mix at those levels? i used to drive my 80b into the red but that was way too hot and my hedd kept klipping. i try to keep my levels around -9 and only peaks get close to 0.
also i found that once you drive the 80b hot it starts to distort quickly which in most cases i didn´t like. but for some extreme stuff that might be ok, still i´d wonder how to keep the levels on my master machine moderate...
Old 13th September 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the red View Post
just wondering: do you print your mix at those levels? i used to drive my 80b into the red but that was way too hot and my hedd kept klipping. i try to keep my levels around -9 and only peaks get close to 0.
also i found that once you drive the 80b hot it starts to distort quickly which in most cases i didn´t like. but for some extreme stuff that might be ok, still i´d wonder how to keep the levels on my master machine moderate...
I'm hitting a Lavry Gold AD-122-96 off the 2buss, and I've found that it does tend to sound better when not pushing it (the Trident) into the red (which was not the case with the analog 2track). My stereo buss VU needle is usually bouncing around -5 to -3, with the peaks tickling the red, but I don't slam the stereo buss like I did when I was dumping to analog.
Old 13th September 2007
  #10
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Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Just wish I would have held out for an 80C so I could have 56 channels of this 5 band EQ !!!
The 80C never had a 5 band equalizer. It was the same channel strip as the 80B before it... and unless you know of a custom frame desk somewhere the standard configuration was 32 inputs, 24 busses with a "dual" 24 input monitor section.

The monitor section could be assigned to an "A" or "B" input [or both, but there was only one level and pan control for each return]... when Trident added EQ to the monitor section the standard 80B frame size went down to 30 inputs as they had to expand the monitor section by two modules to accomodate the EQ knobs... when the 80C came to be they expanded the frame by the two modules so it went back to 32 inputs with the 24 input monitor section.

If I remember correctly the EQ on the monitor section was 2 band... the channel strips were 4 band. Two bands of sweepable frequency midrange EQ with two bands of [2 frequency] selectable EQ on the top and bottom bands.

Peace.
Old 13th September 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
If I remember correctly the EQ on the monitor section was 2 band... the channel strips were 4 band. Two bands of sweepable frequency midrange EQ with two bands of [2 frequency] selectable EQ on the top and bottom bands.

Peace.
I've seen one of these desks up close. And if memory serves, the eq on the monitors is a three band. Hi and low shelving and a sweepable midrange.

I really like the way these things sound when you push 'em. Of course, there is a point you reach where everything does start to sound mushy. I believe the sweet spot is just before that point. Absolutely love the bottom and width of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691
Man, this has sure been a crazy ride for me. This console is kind of like a really fine young *itch with an attitude. First, Fedex dropped the power supply that Karl rebuilt passionately and the 1st time I hooked it up to the console (after having a "so called" local tech verify it was OK) it blew a resistor on the Echo Return module.
Yeah, I think I heard something about that. Sorry to hear about all of your trouble. Mine's not exactly perfect either. It's almost as old as I am and it never sleeps. heh It's on 24/7 just being cool and doing what it does. Every once in while when I have some downtime, I pick a task to accomplish and get on it. Downtime is few and far between these days (luckily) but everything that I need to work works for the time being.

-Aaron
Old 13th September 2007
  #12
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In the Red........

Quote:
Originally Posted by in the red View Post
just wondering: do you print your mix at those levels? i used to drive my 80b into the red but that was way too hot and my hedd kept klipping. i try to keep my levels around -9 and only peaks get close to 0.
also i found that once you drive the 80b hot it starts to distort quickly which in most cases i didn´t like. but for some extreme stuff that might be ok, still i´d wonder how to keep the levels on my master machine moderate...
Hi, Again...I would say my average is -1 to 0db with peak transients +1 to +2 and of course
hard peaks hit +3. My meters in my 80B follow very accurate to whats going on. That was another thing I noticed and loved about the console. I have never had the farting out or
not being able to push the stereo buss issue I have heard some people say about the console.
My master module is bone stock and sounds very good! I have thought about the 990 type
mod. But to be honest I am afraid to change the sound of the console. Its like my strats....
they are perfect just the way they where made you know? Some 80 series have had master mods (who knows if they really sound better) Some later consoles do not have the discrete BD series transistors tied to all of the outs. There are so many factors. But to answer your question yes i print that way. John
Old 14th September 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslstrat View Post
Hi, Again...I would say my average is -1 to 0db with peak transients +1 to +2 and of course
hard peaks hit +3. My meters in my 80B follow very accurate to whats going on. That was another thing I noticed and loved about the console. I have never had the farting out or
not being able to push the stereo buss issue I have heard some people say about the console.
My master module is bone stock and sounds very good! I have thought about the 990 type
mod. But to be honest I am afraid to change the sound of the console. Its like my strats....
they are perfect just the way they where made you know? Some 80 series have had master mods (who knows if they really sound better) Some later consoles do not have the discrete BD series transistors tied to all of the outs. There are so many factors. But to answer your question yes i print that way. John
Well, my Series 80 has a PPM meter for the 2 Bus and the color doesn't start turning RED until you go above +4db !!!

You guys are saying that on your console the RED starts to occur at 0db ?

Am I missing something here ?
Old 14th September 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Well, my Series 80 has a PPM meter for the 2 Bus and the color doesn't start turning RED until you go above +4db !!!

You guys are saying that on your console the RED starts to occur at 0db ?

Am I missing something here ?
Can you post a pic of your meter bridge?
Old 14th September 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrox247 View Post
Can you post a pic of your meter bridge?
OK, I hope I did this attachment thing right !

These PPM meters go all the way up to +8 db !!
Attached Thumbnails
Trident 80(b) -- how are you setting your monitoring levels ?-80meterbridge.jpg  
Old 14th September 2007
  #16
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Ok.....

Yes But the LED metering is different in readings. Compared to the standard analog meter scaling.
Old 14th September 2007
  #17
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Yeah....My Trident 80C has the analog VU's. I'm not familiar with those meters on an 80. I'll ask around about it.
Old 14th September 2007
  #18
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I owned and heavily modified one of the early 40 input frame Series 80s in the early to mid eighties. All of the Input channels throughout the variations on the series were pretty similar, especially in sound. The main variations were the frame and the Monitor section.

Very cool consoles, but there are some limitations that you should be aware of.

First, and directly related to your question. Those consoles, as shipped, have NO mix bus headroom. None. If you have the Stereo Mix Fader pulled down below "0", you are going to hear some pretty ugly stuff. It's not a bus that sounds cool when you spank it, like some consoles. You get ugly mud and sonic unpleasantness. Keep the back end wide open and go easy on the levels into the 2 Bus.

Leave your Main Stereo Fader wide open and trim back at the front of the Input channels for best results in what you're doing.

Also, if you're using the console for tracking, wherever possible avoid the Multitrack Bus outputs as well. Direct patching from the channel sounds much more open and punchy.

One of the best tricks for those in the know was patching Direct out from the channel Insert Send to the Multitrack when tracking. The back end of the Input module has a buffer circuit on the Insert Return that sounds like crap. It's a poorly considered op amp design that uses 100% negative feedback, which just plain doesn't sound good as implemented in the Series 80. There's nothing to be gained from the drive circuit on the backside of the module, and you are better off setting the record gain at the Mic Pre with the unity gain output of the Insert Send than using the long throw fader anyway. The Mic Pre and EQ are great for rock, but the back end of the module and the Multitrack Bus will do you no favors when recording.

I've heard incredible records done on Series 80's, but back in the day, all of us who were winning with the Series 80's were aware of these tricks and limitations. I hope you get some great tones out of the thing.
Old 14th September 2007
  #19
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

Keep those 80B tips and tricks coming.

I'm mixing a record on an 80B starting on Sunday, and I've got 10 days to mix 12 songs. So I don't got much time to "fool around".
Old 14th September 2007
  #20
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refurbushing

sage691,

i like old analog consoles and have been through a few of them. my harrison mr4 was my last and now i am upgrading a neve for my new studio. the firs thing i always do is recap all the electroylitic capacitors. these 70, 80 consoles usually have there original caps in them and they need to be replaced. the new caps are much better than the old 70's 80's caps. i like the panasonic "FM" series, and the nichecon "HE" series ones. howerver there are other ones that are good to. if you get ones that are even better the price can be very high but the ones i mentioned are very good and a lot of manufactures are using these on the new products. the ones i mentioned are rated at 105 degree C so thats good too for heat. some of the caps that came with these old consoles are rated for 85 degree C.

the neat thing about doing this is if you know what your doing you can modifiy some of the values of the caps in certian places and that will give you better low end, basically it will extend you low end, not to mention the specs on these caps are really good.

i have done three consoles with 40 + channels. it's a lot of work and you need a good solder station, like a weller but it's well worth it and doing it yourself will save you thousands. also being anal like i am i replaced every electrolytic in the board and power supplies, basically everone you can find. also you can upgrade chips to faster better ones. you need to be careful though because although some specs might be very good they might be to sterile or not very musical. i like to try different chips in like 2 modules and compare them, it's kind of fun.

on the solding you will get really good at it and make it fun, after you get set up you can pump theses things out like a little assembly line, it's all good. and when you get done, it will kick ass.

good luck

jg / gossard studios
Old 14th September 2007
  #21
Here for the gear
 

sage691,

one thing a forgot to mention if you decide to recap your console the "Digikey" company is a really good place to buy your caps from. good prices and a very well organized and great customer service company. diffently one company that has ther act together.

ps, i don't work for Digikey
Old 15th September 2007
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianT View Post
I owned and heavily modified one of the early 40 input frame Series 80s in the early to mid eighties. All of the Input channels throughout the variations on the series were pretty similar, especially in sound. The main variations were the frame and the Monitor section.

Very cool consoles, but there are some limitations that you should be aware of.

First, and directly related to your question. Those consoles, as shipped, have NO mix bus headroom. None. If you have the Stereo Mix Fader pulled down below "0", you are going to hear some pretty ugly stuff. It's not a bus that sounds cool when you spank it, like some consoles. You get ugly mud and sonic unpleasantness. Keep the back end wide open and go easy on the levels into the 2 Bus.

Leave your Main Stereo Fader wide open and trim back at the front of the Input channels for best results in what you're doing.

Also, if you're using the console for tracking, wherever possible avoid the Multitrack Bus outputs as well. Direct patching from the channel sounds much more open and punchy.

One of the best tricks for those in the know was patching Direct out from the channel Insert Send to the Multitrack when tracking. The back end of the Input module has a buffer circuit on the Insert Return that sounds like crap. It's a poorly considered op amp design that uses 100% negative feedback, which just plain doesn't sound good as implemented in the Series 80. There's nothing to be gained from the drive circuit on the backside of the module, and you are better off setting the record gain at the Mic Pre with the unity gain output of the Insert Send than using the long throw fader anyway. The Mic Pre and EQ are great for rock, but the back end of the module and the Multitrack Bus will do you no favors when recording.

I've heard incredible records done on Series 80's, but back in the day, all of us who were winning with the Series 80's were aware of these tricks and limitations. I hope you get some great tones out of the thing.

Hi Brian T,


Thanks for your input!

For tracking do you mean use TT to XLR cables from the patchbay's "Channel Direct Outputs" section ? Is this how you achieve direct outs from the channels and bypass the back end ? Also, my multitrack is a MTR90 and is wired pin 3 hot; so I assume I'll have to have my TTs wired that way on the other end if I am to go this route ?

Also, I'm pretty sure my mix bus is stock -- so what do you recommend in the way of mods to get the best headroom and punch where I can really push the 2 bus on the console ? I have considered the Purple Audio 2 bus mod that John Klett does. What is you opinion on that one ?

The music I'm mixing definitely pushes the sonic spectrum in the realm of loudness, so I'm looking for the best sound i can possibly get on the 2 bus.

Also, what is your opinion on using the Group Outs from the input channels to send instruments (drums, guitars, etc.) to busses for paralell compression in final mixing ? I plan on doing a good bit of this, so your comments about the unflattering circuitry in the busses really concerns me !! Is it really that bad ?
Old 15th September 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEFF GOSSARD View Post
sage691,

i like old analog consoles and have been through a few of them. my harrison mr4 was my last and now i am upgrading a neve for my new studio. the firs thing i always do is recap all the electroylitic capacitors. these 70, 80 consoles usually have there original caps in them and they need to be replaced. the new caps are much better than the old 70's 80's caps. i like the panasonic "FM" series, and the nichecon "HE" series ones. howerver there are other ones that are good to. if you get ones that are even better the price can be very high but the ones i mentioned are very good and a lot of manufactures are using these on the new products. the ones i mentioned are rated at 105 degree C so thats good too for heat. some of the caps that came with these old consoles are rated for 85 degree C.

the neat thing about doing this is if you know what your doing you can modifiy some of the values of the caps in certian places and that will give you better low end, basically it will extend you low end, not to mention the specs on these caps are really good.

i have done three consoles with 40 + channels. it's a lot of work and you need a good solder station, like a weller but it's well worth it and doing it yourself will save you thousands. also being anal like i am i replaced every electrolytic in the board and power supplies, basically everone you can find. also you can upgrade chips to faster better ones. you need to be careful though because although some specs might be very good they might be to sterile or not very musical. i like to try different chips in like 2 modules and compare them, it's kind of fun.

on the solding you will get really good at it and make it fun, after you get set up you can pump theses things out like a little assembly line, it's all good. and when you get done, it will kick ass.

good luck

jg / gossard studios

Hi Jeff,

All of the modules on the console have already been fully recapped with Nichicon PW 105 degree capacitors. And both power supplys were completely recapped as well (including replacing the beer can size large caps). The work was done by a well known tech and is excellent, though it was a pretty penny in cost.

As of now I'm realizing I should have done a global rechip as well!! Anyone who tells you to not bother rechipping doesn't know what he/she is talking about -- the old op amps DO go bad !!!!!!

I recently ordered TL071s from Mouser, but they are too small !! Does anyone know which TL071s I should get (SPECIFIC part #) ???? I need about 500 of them because I want to do a GLOBAL rechip !!!
Old 15th September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post

For tracking do you mean use TT to XLR cables from the patchbay's "Channel Direct Outputs" section ? Is this how you achieve direct outs from the channels and bypass the back end ? Also, my multitrack is a MTR90 and is wired pin 3 hot; so I assume I'll have to have my TTs wired that way on the other end if I am to go this route ?
He's talking about using the insert send to go to the multitrack rather than the direct out or a bus. You patch from the insert send on the channel to the recorder's input. Then what I do is patch the output of the recorder back into the insert return on that channel. Then you're working in an "inline" fashion for monitoring rather than using the monitor section of the console. Your faders will be the monitor level coming back from the recorder and the the level to the recorder is controlled by the mic pre's gain pot.

You're just bypassing some extra circuitry that you don't need to use. Of course, this method will not work if you need to bus a couple channels together to one track on the recorder.
Old 15th September 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raw-Tracks View Post
He's talking about using the insert send to go to the multitrack rather than the direct out or a bus. You patch from the insert send on the channel to the recorder's input. Then what I do is patch the output of the recorder back into the insert return on that channel. Then you're working in an "inline" fashion for monitoring rather than using the monitor section of the console. Your faders will be the monitor level coming back from the recorder and the the level to the recorder is controlled by the mic pre's gain pot.

You're just bypassing some extra circuitry that you don't need to use. Of course, this method will not work if you need to bus a couple channels together to one track on the recorder.
OK,


So he must be referring to either the "External Equipment Outputs" on DL #9 coming from the bottom of the board (of which there are 20) ---

or, the "Channel Sends To External Equipment" on the TT patchbay (of which there are 32) ??????
Old 15th September 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
obostic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
OK,


So he must be referring to either the "External Equipment Outputs" on DL #9 coming from the bottom of the board (of which there are 20) ---

or, the "Channel Sends To External Equipment" on the TT patchbay (of which there are 32) ??????
At the patchbay connect the rows labeled "Channel Sends To EXT EQPT" to the corresponding "Multi Track input" with TTs and your done. Of course, this is only if your converters are connected to DL# 6.
Old 15th September 2007
  #27
Gear Addict
 
jslstrat's Avatar
 

?????? TL071 is a TL071

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Hi Jeff,

All of the modules on the console have already been fully recapped with Nichicon PW 105 degree capacitors. And both power supplys were completely recapped as well (including replacing the beer can size large caps). The work was done by a well known tech and is excellent, though it was a pretty penny in cost.

As of now I'm realizing I should have done a global rechip as well!! Anyone who tells you to not bother rechipping doesn't know what he/she is talking about -- the old op amps DO go bad !!!!!!

I recently ordered TL071s from Mouser, but they are too small !! Does anyone know which TL071s I should get (SPECIFIC part #) ???? I need about 500 of them because I want to do a GLOBAL rechip !!!
TL071 Is a TL071...There Is not a different size that I am aware off....Maybe Jim Williams knows..Mine are the originals. They are TL071CP and they are the originals and sound great.
Also rumors where that TL071 where made with special high rating of +/- 20V but that did not last long. Trident actualy sold consoles that had those then Texas inst changed the TL071 to+/-18 and they sent desk out that where blowing chips. This Info comes from Steve Firlotte..And he knows his stuff and these consoles. Mine has not been ****ed with and sounds awesome. I have
found the more a desk has been messed with the more problems they have. If Its not broke dont fix it. And of course If somebody makes a living at telling you you need this and that...Then of course there bad.
Old 15th September 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslstrat View Post
TL071 Is a TL071...There Is not a different size that I am aware off....Maybe Jim Williams knows..Mine are the originals. They are TL071CP and they are the originals and sound great.
Also rumors where that TL071 where made with special high rating of +/- 20V but that did not last long. Trident actualy sold consoles that had those then Texas inst changed the TL071 to+/-18 and they sent desk out that where blowing chips. This Info comes from Steve Firlotte..And he knows his stuff and these consoles. Mine has not been ****ed with and sounds awesome. I have
found the more a desk has been messed with the more problems they have. If Its not broke dont fix it. And of course If somebody makes a living at telling you you need this and that...Then of course there bad.

Jslstrat,


Mouser sent me some TL071CD chips that are about 1/2 the size of normal TL071s.

On the actual chip it says "071c" and then "EZ704"

I guess I need to get the CPs

And yeah, when Brian T says the 80 has ZERO (NONE) headroom as stock that sounds pretty far out to me. I wonder what is he comparing it to ??

I had a well respected SSL tech tell me that the 80s are known for really great headroom; but maybe he wasn't talking about the 2 bus ??
Old 15th September 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by obostic View Post
At the patchbay connect the rows labeled "Channel Sends To EXT EQPT" to the corresponding "Multi Track input" with TTs and your done. Of course, this is only if your converters are connected to DL# 6.
THANKS OZZIE !!

Your comments are always right on the money and very appreciated !!!
Old 15th September 2007
  #30
Gear Addict
 
jslstrat's Avatar
 

Headroom...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Jslstrat,


Mouser sent me some TL071CD chips that are about 1/2 the size of normal TL071s.

On the actual chip it says "071c" and then "EZ704"

I guess I need to get the CPs

And yeah, when Brian T says the 80 has ZERO (NONE) headroom as stock that sounds pretty far out to me. I wonder what is he comparing it to ??

I had a well respected SSL tech tell me that the 80s are known for really great headroom; but maybe he wasn't talking about the 2 bus ??
Yes..Most people dont know what they are talking about. The early 80,s actually have a "Remix" buss card on the side of the echo module. Then a seperate LINE amp. Then the Master module has has its own stereo buss for all of your two tracks etc.....On top of that they are tied on the outs ( on early serie 80,80B) With the BD series transistors. I talked with the guy at Soundarts Recording Studio) He had a master mod done. And switched back because he did not like the sound. The 80B has A SOUND. Like a strat or a les paul it just happens to have a great design/sound by accident or purpose they have a very distinct sound! More so than alot of other consoles IMOP. And dont push the remix fader all the way up. Keep it at 0db.
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