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Trident 80(b) -- how are you setting your monitoring levels ? Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 15th September 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslstrat View Post
Yes..Most people dont know what they are talking about. The early 80,s actually have a "Remix" buss card on the side of the echo module. Then a seperate LINE amp. Then the Master module has has its own stereo buss for all of your two tracks etc.....On top of that they are tied on the outs ( on early serie 80,80B) With the BD series transistors. I talked with the guy at Soundarts Recording Studio) He had a master mod done. And switched back because he did not like the sound. The 80B has A SOUND. Like a strat or a les paul it just happens to have a great design/sound by accident or purpose they have a very distinct sound! More so than alot of other consoles IMOP. And dont push the remix fader all the way up. Keep it at 0db.
Yeah man, I have an original Series 80 and just like you said the Remix Bus card is a little sub-PCB screwed on to the Echo Return Module.

BD series transistors ? Where would those be ?

I guess Brian T may be talking about some later model 80bs where Trident possibly cut some corners on the Remix 2Bus design ?

Yeah, I've met Brian at SoundArts in Houston and my band has done some recording there too! Great guy.

Glad to know that he did the mod and then went back, cause they actually have an 80b over there which had to come after mine. My console was made in 1980 I believe.
Old 15th September 2007
  #32
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jslstrat's Avatar
 

Transistors

I can post pictures later...But you will see them as pairs of vertical transistors. With copper heat sink. And these are discrete transistors by the way! Along with actual input transformers on
the modules. There are also other areas of Discrete transistors in the 80 series. These consoles
are not just IC based. They are a Hybrid of Transformers,Transistors and IC,s. Thats why these consoles have such a great sound. IMOP. The BD series transistors are also the same ones in the old urei 1176,s Kind of interesting.........
Old 15th September 2007
  #33
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subspace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Hi Jeff,

As of now I'm realizing I should have done a global rechip as well!! Anyone who tells you to not bother rechipping doesn't know what he/she is talking about -- the old op amps DO go bad !!!!!!

I recently ordered TL071s from Mouser, but they are too small !! Does anyone know which TL071s I should get (SPECIFIC part #) ???? I need about 500 of them because I want to do a GLOBAL rechip !!!
What are your audio rails running at? Dialing them down to +/- 17.5V may help you with this problem of old op amps "going bad."
Your desk uses TL071s in the 8-DIP package, the TI select parts would be TL071BCP. You can replace every chip in your desk with an identical new one and hear some improvement, or you could just scrape the oxidation off the legs of the old ones and get the same effect. For the truly anal, you could desolder the original sockets and replace them with new mil-max parts, then insert the chips with a touch of Cramolin Blue/ Tweek to prevent the oxidation from returning.
Old 15th September 2007
  #34
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subspace's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Hey man thanks so much !!!

Do you try to optimize the signal to noise ratio of each channel using the trim pots for final mixing, or do you control the out levels from PT exclusively within PT ? I like to solo each channel and adjust the trim pot so that it is over 0 db on its own meter, and then ride the fader down from there if necessary in the mix. I believe this is proper "gain staging" for mixing; what do you think ?
Proper gain staging would be setting a yard stick across your faders at 0dB and trimming your input gains to set mix levels, just using the faders for dynamic fades. Gaining the channel up to 0dB just to bring it back down on the fader isn't good practice, but I'll do just that on certain instruments, cranking the input gain and pulling the fader down for some added hair on the track.
Old 15th September 2007
  #35
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Also, many of us thought that running National Semiconductors LF351 opamps at +/- 15V to 16V sounded cooler than the TL071 at +/- 18V.

Plus, the chips would last forever.

I also turned one of the Aux Send Pre/Post switches into an Insert Bypass switch, since that bypassed a roundtrip to the patchbay and a normalled connection on what is often a fairly suspect patchbay on that series. The nomalled connections tend to get a bit corroded over time, affecting the sonics. A good patchbay sonic dip cleaning can do wonders for one of those consoles.
Old 15th September 2007
  #36
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obostic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianT View Post

I also turned one of the Aux Send Pre/Post switches into an Insert Bypass switch, since that bypassed a roundtrip to the patchbay and a normalled connection on what is often a fairly suspect patchbay on that series. The nomalled connections tend to get a bit corroded over time, affecting the sonics.
Actually, that's a pretty cool idea and you're right the patchbay is basically the weak link on 80 series.
Old 15th September 2007
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subspace View Post
What are your audio rails running at? Dialing them down to +/- 17.5V may help you with this problem of old op amps "going bad."
Your desk uses TL071s in the 8-DIP package, the TI select parts would be TL071BCP. You can replace every chip in your desk with an identical new one and hear some improvement, or you could just scrape the oxidation off the legs of the old ones and get the same effect. For the truly anal, you could desolder the original sockets and replace them with new mil-max parts, then insert the chips with a touch of Cramolin Blue/ Tweek to prevent the oxidation from returning.
Audio rails are running at 17.75V according to what my tech told me.

And thanks for the gain staging advice! I dig the thought of having all the faders at 0db and using both the faders in PT and the trim pots on the console for optimizing mixing levels!
Old 16th September 2007
  #38
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Volts and Rails

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Audio rails are running at 17.75V according to what my tech told me.

And thanks for the gain staging advice! I dig the thought of having all the faders at 0db and using both the faders in PT and the trim pots on the console for optimizing mixing levels!
Funny thing is my console has run on +/- 20 V for years ........ I knocked it down to +/-17V.
Thing sounds awesome...I smile every time I use it...sweet desk.
Old 16th September 2007
  #39
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+/- 17.5v here and she rocks hard!
Old 16th September 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obostic View Post
+/- 17.5v here and she rocks hard!

Yo Ozzie,

Yeah, i think we have a nearly identical console.

Is your 2 bus Remix stock or did you do any mods ? How's the headroom ? Haven't printed any mixes thru mine yet, but looking forward to it.

Also, so you connect your Smart C2 via the "stereo bus insert sends and returns" on the patchbay ? Curious as to how you had that routed in.

Yeah, the patchbay can be a real pain. Seems all connections on the PCB patchbay cards need to be "squeaky" clean or signal loss occurs. Some of the TT sockets can require tweaking to get the normals to break properly when the cable is fully inserted. Would have thought that Trident could come up with some better (longer lasting) parts in this area !!
Old 16th September 2007
  #41
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obostic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Yo Ozzie,

Yeah, i think we have a nearly identical console.

Is your 2 bus Remix stock or did you do any mods ? How's the headroom ? Haven't printed any mixes thru mine yet, but looking forward to it.

Also, so you connect your Smart C2 via the "stereo bus insert sends and returns" on the patchbay ? Curious as to how you had that routed in.

Yeah, the patchbay can be a real pain. Seems all connections on the PCB patchbay cards need to be "squeaky" clean or signal loss occurs. Some of the TT sockets can require tweaking to get the normals to break properly when the cable is fully inserted. Would have thought that Trident could come up with some better (longer lasting) parts in this area !!
My two buss is bone stock although I tried a couple of mods, but the board character was changed too much for my liking. I really love the warm sound that my 80 produces and any attempted mod seems to change that. Also, I tried the various op-amps again the board character was change too much, so I stuck with the TL071s. The headroom is plenty for the way I mix no complaints in that department. As far as the Smart, she permanently lives inserted on the mix bus so there's really no routing involved.
Old 16th September 2007
  #42
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Stereo Buss

Glad to hear your opinion on the 2 buss. I have heard this from more than a few owners.
I would maybe try the inward connections 990 block mod. But really whats the point If I really like the sound. You really have to give the guys at Trident credit back in the day. I am sure for 90%
of the time they where on the right track. And for everybody that always says try this and try
that.How many ACTUAL consoles have they designed/made??? Even fletcher for the most part said leave the console alone.......
Old 17th September 2007
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obostic View Post
My two buss is bone stock although I tried a couple of mods, but the board character was changed too much for my liking. I really love the warm sound that my 80 produces and any attempted mod seems to change that. Also, I tried the various op-amps again the board character was change too much, so I stuck with the TL071s. The headroom is plenty for the way I mix no complaints in that department. As far as the Smart, she permanently lives inserted on the mix bus so there's really no routing involved.
When you say "inserted" on the mix bus I assume you mean via the Stereo Bus Insert Send and Return TTs on the patchbay ?

I'm just a total novice in this regard, so sorry for the continuous repeat of the same question! I have a Red 3 for the 2 Bus compressor, so i want to know specifically how others are routing theirs.
Old 17th September 2007
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
When you say "inserted" on the mix bus I assume you mean via the Stereo Bus Insert Send and Return TTs on the patchbay ?
Correct! If I were you, I would simply hookup your Red to the EXT. EQUIP DL's and this way you can work from any of the channels, groups, or buss send and return inserts by simply patching.
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