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geting the hang of the 1176 Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 12th September 2007
  #1
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Bloodz's Avatar
 

geting the hang of the 1176

I'm struggling at mixdown using the 2-1176, everything sounds super squashed. I know i'm not using the unit as inteded however not having a threshold knob is really confusing the hell out of me. Could some of you please share some common settings or guidlines to make its use more apparent. Right now i'm using mostly the 10 and 2 trick but not sure if that applies to input and output or just attack and release.

cheers.
Old 12th September 2007
  #2
If it works the same as a regular 1176, I believe the 10-2 thing refers to the input and output. The attack and release can be all over the place. Note that the attack will be 800 micro seconds at it's slowest, for many compressors, the attack isn't even close to this fast. So be careful as it can really take away the initial transient, which may or may not be what you want. Just as a starting point, use the slowest attack and a medium fast release with it's lowest ratio. Adjust from there [and this gets into the basics of how to use a compressor/limiter].
Old 12th September 2007
  #3
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The thresh is fixed, so the input drives the signal into gain reduction and the output is makeup gain.

Are you using the unit on your 2-buss? I rarely use my 2 1176's across the mix buss as they're too aggressive and the quick attack chokes the mix making it smaller.

Old 12th September 2007
  #4
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Try the attack at 10 and the release at 2 at 4:1...don't be scared to keep the input low and use the output to adjust the volume...
Old 12th September 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_nomad View Post
The thresh is fixed, so the input drives the signal into gain reduction and the output is makeup gain.

Are you using the unit on your 2-buss? I rarely use my 2 1176's across the mix buss as they're too aggressive and the quick attack chokes the mix making it smaller.

ya, i'm using it on the mix buss as its the only stereo comp i have. the other comp is a mono tube tech. I'm running the mix out of nuendo from my lynx card outs into a Chandler tg2 then back into the pc to compress and warm things up. If i shouldn't be using this unit for the 2 buss can you suggest an alternative? I'm having a tough time getting the lead vocal and backing track to sound together on a mix i'm working on for our band.

thanks for the replies so far.
Old 12th September 2007
  #6
Gear Maniac
 

Until you can get some serious cash for an elysia or an stc-8, I would go with a good quality software compressor that is less aggressive and will preserve your transients... You can get great results with the likes of the Sony/Sonnox Dynamics plug but again there are quite a few options that will probably do a serviceable job.
Old 12th September 2007
  #7
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodz View Post
I'm having a tough time getting the lead vocal and backing track to sound together on a mix i'm working on for our band.

welcome to what is generally the biggest challenge facing every engineer: seating the vocals. it's all about eq, compression, and fx.

and what others are saying is true, the 2-1176 is not a mix comp, so unpatch it. instead, mix with no 2-buss compression and use the 2-1176 for other spotlight tracks. tubetech on vox, 1st 1176 on primary guitar, 2d 1176 flattening a mono drum buss or bass or whatever else is driving the mix.

go heavier on channel and buss compression and leave the mix wide open, you'll get better results. the better you get at building a mix with no squeeze, the better your mixes will be when you do get a good mix comp.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 12th September 2007
  #8
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I would think that the attack on a 1176 is waaay to fast for the stereo bus.
Old 12th September 2007
  #9
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I've gotten good results with the 2-1176 on the 2 buss with a medium-fast attack and slow release with about 6 db of gain reduction. Sounded good to me. Just back off the release until the pumping stops.
Old 12th September 2007
  #10
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my info from UA states ..if your using it across the mix buss it should be on 20:1 setting.
Old 12th September 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
I would think that the attack on a 1176 is waaay to fast for the stereo bus.
FWIW, if you link the two sides of the 2-1176, or you use the stereo adapter on a couple of 1176LN, the attack and release values are doubled. Still a little fast for 2-buss, but thought I'd throw that out there.

I have used a couple of 1176LNs with a stereo adapter on the 2-bus. It certainly has a "sound" but not something that I'd use on every track. It can be nice if used sparingly. Just kiss the GR, and slam the output for some tranny gel.
Old 12th September 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
go heavier on channel and buss compression and leave the mix wide open, you'll get better results. the better you get at building a mix with no squeeze, the better your mixes will be when you do get a good mix comp.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
...yep...I would say, in your situation, use the 1176 only for bus compression if you can. Definitely take it off the 2 mix.

Nick
Old 13th September 2007
  #13
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robot gigante's Avatar
I second the advice to take it off of the 2 bus and to mix with no compression on the 2 bus at all. Also, you're running the whole mix through a mic pre? I'm not sure that I'd recommend doing that either. I think you should be able to get things to gel right without bandaids like that (it takes work though!). Getting things like the vox to sit right is not going to be solved by 2 bus compression even with the best of compressors.

For alternative bus comps, just do a search. Off-hand, I'd say an SSL-style bus comp like a Smart C2 might be the ticket, works for me.

I'd also steer clear of software compression on the 2 bus- I have yet to find one that doesn't degrade the sound too much to my ears.
Old 13th September 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
Also, you're running the whole mix through a mic pre? I'm not sure that I'd recommend doing that either. .
I know it sounds weird but don't knock it till you've tried it. It can pull a mix together in the same way that a passive summing box can. I've used my TG2 across the mix buss with good results. Drop the output gain from your DAW or use a pad and then use the pre for makeup gain back into your DAW. It'll add the sound of the pre to your whole mix or buss. I've heard Brad McGowan use the Pacifica on the 2 buss in this application for a rock mix and it sounded incredible...totally changed the tone of the whole mix for the better.
Old 13th September 2007
  #15
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Just out of curiosity, are you using a vintage, black or silver face?
Old 13th September 2007
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neve8128 View Post
Just out of curiosity, are you using a vintage, black or silver face?
I'm using reissue 2-1176
Old 13th September 2007
  #17
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Bloodz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
I second the advice to take it off of the 2 bus and to mix with no compression on the 2 bus at all. Also, you're running the whole mix through a mic pre? I'm not sure that I'd recommend doing that either. I think you should be able to get things to gel right without bandaids like that (it takes work though!). Getting things like the vox to sit right is not going to be solved by 2 bus compression even with the best of compressors.

For alternative bus comps, just do a search. Off-hand, I'd say an SSL-style bus comp like a Smart C2 might be the ticket, works for me.

I'd also steer clear of software compression on the 2 bus- I have yet to find one that doesn't degrade the sound too much to my ears.
If i'm not going to get there with the comps i have, and I shouldn't be using plugs, how can i bring the level of the mix up? I'm going to attempt to answer my own question and assume individualy compressing each track will get me there overall?
Old 13th September 2007
  #18
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Put a piece of tape over the meter.
Old 13th September 2007
  #19
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mikey's Avatar
 

you got that right
Old 13th September 2007
  #20
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
I'd also steer clear of software compression on the 2 bus- I have yet to find one that doesn't degrade the sound too much to my ears.
Have you tried the PSP MasterComp or the Waves SSL?

Brad
Old 13th September 2007
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodz View Post
If i'm not going to get there with the comps i have, and I shouldn't be using plugs, how can i bring the level of the mix up? I'm going to attempt to answer my own question and assume individualy compressing each track will get me there overall?
Turn up your monitor volume. Seriously. Leave the loudness BS for the mastering engineer.

Brad
Old 13th September 2007
  #22
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10 & 2 must refer to the attack and release settings. Seems to me that's where my attack and release usually wind up on most material. I don't see how 10 & 2 could be suggested for the in/out. That's really going to depend on the level of the track itself. If a track is recorded really hot, your input may be set lower.

I alway get a kick when I read a manual or a tutorial in a magazine that's trying to describe how to use a compressor and they give a threshold setting. I can understand giving attack/release and ratio settings as a guidline, but suggesting a threshold setting is completely useless. The author has no idea what level the audio is coming into the unit at.
Old 13th September 2007
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan View Post
Have you tried the PSP MasterComp or the Waves SSL?

Brad
Yes and yes. Not for me. A/B'ed them to hardware, compared them level matched to the uncompressed signal... for me no compression is better, at least on the 2 bus. I've yet to hear a software compressor that doesn't create certain artifacts that 'close up' the mix for lack of a better word. I will sometimes use plugin comps on individual channels though, and I do use Cranesong Phoenix on the 2 bus of an ITB mix which does compress the signal in a way when you drive the input.
Old 13th September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodz View Post
If i'm not going to get there with the comps i have, and I shouldn't be using plugs, how can i bring the level of the mix up? I'm going to attempt to answer my own question and assume individualy compressing each track will get me there overall?
A good mix will get you there best of all. In other words, the right frequency balance, the right arrangement, the right use of effects and dynamics- all of those things will make your mix sound louder than compressing the 2 bus or slamming individual channels.

From there the mastering engineer can take over, but ideally he/she shouldn't have to do that much.

Take a listen to your favorite recordings and pay attention to the frequency balance and arrangement. Note how everything 'fits.'
Old 13th September 2007
  #25
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Try it in parallel compression and blend to taste "4button mode"...
Old 13th September 2007
  #26
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
Yes and yes. Not for me. A/B'ed them to hardware, compared them level matched to the uncompressed signal... for me no compression is better, at least on the 2 bus. I've yet to hear a software compressor that doesn't create certain artifacts that 'close up' the mix for lack of a better word. I will sometimes use plugin comps on individual channels though, and I do use Cranesong Phoenix on the 2 bus of an ITB mix which does compress the signal in a way when you drive the input.
That's fair. Some people just aren't into the sound of compression as a rule (despite what all these tell us). I for one much prefer the sound of an uncompressed bass. However, I don't think I've ever been lucky enough to record a bassist that could play evenly enough.

Brad
Old 13th September 2007
  #27
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Don't get me wrong, Brad- I love the sound of compression!

I mix with a Smart C2 or sometimes a Vari-Mu on the 2 bus, I always slam my drum bus pretty hard with a Chandler Zener, and I will often smash individual channels hard with 1176's, a Spectrasonics 610, or even cheapo pumpy compressors like a Dynacomp. All for the sound of compression more than for anything else. Certainly not for leveling things out, that is what volume automation is for.

Sorry- what I meant was no compression was better than the sound of software compression on the 2 bus, every time. What I've I've found in practice is that the Smart C2 for example simply sounds much more open than the Waves SSL compressor does, and the time constants or the way that the envelope of the software comp acts is much different to my ears- with the software, it's not the compression sound that I like. It's less perceptible with small amounts of compression, but it is still there.

That's just my experience. There are a couple software EQ's like the MDW that I don't mind using instead of analog, but compression is another story.
Old 13th September 2007
  #28
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Gotcha! I misinterpretted what you were saying.

I'm in the process of building a vari-mu for 2-bus use. Not too get off topic but what do you like your vari-mu for other than 2-bus?

Brad
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