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PROOF THAT ANAOLOG IS NOT BETTER THAN PROTOOLS Equalisers (HW)
Old 11th September 2007
  #1
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VT rich's Avatar
 

PROOF THAT ANAOLOG IS NOT BETTER THAN PROTOOLS

"PROOF THAT ANAOLOG IS NOT BETTER THAN PROTOOLS"

Well that title was more to get your attention than to state a fact. And while this isn’t what Digidesign has claimed it sure seems to me that they are working very hard to make people believe it. Whether it is true or not….. well that’s why I started this thread. I was wondering how many of my fellow sluts have checked out the video and information that was put out by Digidesign.


Digidesign | News | Articles & User Stories | Pro Tools vs. Analog Console Mixing


I just wanted to hear some peoples thoughts and maybe start a few heated debates.

Has analog truly become an old dog on it's last leg or has this digital giant just found another genius way to market an insuperior product?

Let the battle begin…….
Old 11th September 2007
  #2
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Knastratt's Avatar
 

Interesting!

I'll get a bean bag and a beer.

Let the battle begin.
Old 11th September 2007
  #3
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I went to a presentation of this test (comparing an SSL mix with an itb mix using Waves SSL plugs). I heard a difference between the analog and itb mixes - this was not what I expected. I was also surprised that most attendees didn't hear a difference. Then again, most attendees were a bit younger than me. Maybe they've never worked with analog.

The test is set up to make it as confusing as possible rather than to illustrate the differences between the 2 approaches.

Best....H
Old 11th September 2007
  #4
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

I think you are late to the battlefield, there is a seizefire in place as we speak .
Old 11th September 2007
  #5
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VT rich View Post

I just wanted to hear some peoples thoughts and maybe start a few heated debates.

Let the battle begin…….

Or let's not and you just go push the 'search' button and read all the analog vs digital, itb vs otb threads.

Old 11th September 2007
  #6
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heyman's Avatar
I know what I heard... As of right now, I am not satisfied. The Pro tools stuff doesnt hve the front to back depth that the stuff run thru the console has..

I look at it this way, Focusrite pushed the Liquid channel hard and claimed that it could recreate alot of classic pre and compressors.

Well, it emulated them in a 2d sort of way.. Not what I would call organic..

To me, that is how I feel about mixing in the box..

This isnt a bash. Plugins and ITB mixing has come along way... But not far enough..
Old 11th September 2007
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
prismtheory's Avatar
 

I checked out the Dark New Day clips...I honestly could tell a difference between the pro tools mix and the analog console.

The difference is in the saturation and the bottom end...but having said that one has to wonder if buying a console for 100,000 + is justified in the very slight difference between in the box and out of the box etc. Noone in the world will care what was used as long as it rocks.

But...I do feel that mixes come together MUCH quicker on a board...and it is nice to have some character. I have personally just decided to go out of the box...purely because I want to shut the computer screen off and mix the F*&^%in song. but I have personally liked the results of mixing in the box as well...it's all subjective.
Old 11th September 2007
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Yes I've seen/heard it before too. I can't say I could really tell a difference, which seems kind of ridiculous to me. I'm a little suspicious from the get go because it's on the Digidesign website, so it's not like they are scientifically unbiased in the experiment. The thing that I thought was hard to believe was that if you set two ssl boards next to each other and set all the faders and pots on the exact same places, the same mix would still probably sound ever so slightly different, right? I would assume the every analog board would be just a bit different from the next one based on part tolerances and so forth. I'm not sure you could get an identical sounding mix from two identical sounding boards. So I can't figure how they got something to sound so close from software plugins?

Or maybe it sounds worlds apart and my ear for this sux.
Old 11th September 2007
  #9
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t.dizzle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by prismtheory View Post
But...I do feel that mixes come together MUCH quicker on a board...and it is nice to have some character. but I have personally liked the results of mixing in the box as well...it's all subjective.
thumbsup Especially the part in bold.
Old 11th September 2007
  #10
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Andrew Kinsey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogoose View Post
Yes I've seen/heard it before too. I can't say I could really tell a difference, which seems kind of ridiculous to me. I'm a little suspicious from the get go because it's on the Digidesign website, so it's not like they are scientifically unbiased in the experiment. The thing that I thought was hard to believe was that if you set two ssl boards next to each other and set all the faders and pots on the exact same places, the same mix would still probably sound ever so slightly different, right? I would assume the every analog board would be just a bit different from the next one based on part tolerances and so forth. I'm not sure you could get an identical sounding mix from two identical sounding boards. So I can't figure how they got something to sound so close from software plugins?

Or maybe it sounds worlds apart and my ear for this sux.
I think it was more of a case of getting the OTB mix to match the ITB mix.

It would be harder IMO to get the ITB mix to match the OTB mix especially if the engineer likes high gain settings on the desk.

Old 11th September 2007
  #11
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The console mixes all sounded more "musical" to my ears.

None of the mixes was really good.

Console had more overall roundness + stronger low end.

I definetly hear the Pro Tools sound in the snare hits - narrow...

However I think the differences would be minimized when Pro Tools would be feed into an external summing mixer like a mixdream - then we would get CLOSE IMO
Old 11th September 2007
  #12
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carlheinz's Avatar
 

Wow.This is bait/hook/line and sinker!
Old 11th September 2007
  #13
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

the future of recorded sound has two groups : analog and people who don't care
Old 11th September 2007
  #14
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poncival's Avatar
Analog is better, everybody who doesn't agree is just plain wrong

Old 11th September 2007
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
pbell's Avatar
 

Here we go again
Old 11th September 2007
  #16
I used Pro Tools HD! and love it.
But the Digidesign Challenge is not fair and totally realistic.

They gave an Hr to the engineer to make a mix!! as Mike Shipley stated...so they did not have time to make a much elaborated, complex and finished mix.

So to emuate those mixes were not as difficult as could really be is the engineers could have a full day to mix the songs!
Old 11th September 2007
  #17
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by poncival View Post
Analog is better, everybody who doesn't agree is just plain wrong

i think i'll have to roll with this, as un p.c. and black and white as it is......
if you can actually record to both simultaneously and listen to both back and forth -
there is a huge difference. if you couldn't hear it, i would not work with you....


tape and vinyl are honest - they will have a resurgence in the coming decade -
they are the only medium that has proof of honesty


be well


- jack
Old 11th September 2007
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

perhaps they should have used a Neve instead of SSL for comparison hehhehheh
Old 11th September 2007
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
if you couldn't hear it, i would not work with you....
really? So if, down the road, no one can hear it, you'll get out of the business?

Quote:
tape and vinyl are honest - they will have a resurgence in the coming decade
They may be honesssst, but they are not practical. Record labels would LOVE to see a resurgence in vinyl, 'cause it has to be manufactured and packaged and sold instead of downloaded. While vinyl is making a small comeback among DJs and enthusiasts, I wouldn't predict a "resurgence" of any magnitude compared to digital.

In order to "steal" vinyl, you actually have to go to a store and steal it.

-g
Old 11th September 2007
  #20
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Tibbon's Avatar
The easiest and most true thing to say about this is, "They sound different".

I don't believe that you can quantify one as always "better" than the other, but they certainly are and react differently.

Also, that's a really broad generalization. With Protools there's a huge range of conversion and clocking options which make a big difference. With analogue there's the fact that there's thousands of components in the signal chain, which are almost never the same for any two installations.

Uh, and DUH, Digidesign is going to have things that support the digital side, just as the Patraeus report is going to support the Whitehouse! (not to get political about it, but it's fair to say that neither is without reason to have their side be the winning one!)
Old 11th September 2007
  #21
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neve8128 View Post
perhaps they should have used a Neve instead of SSL for comparison hehhehheh
Yea, gotta love that mid-low muddy transformer buildup!

Old 11th September 2007
  #22
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octatonic's Avatar
I had a brief listen- there isn't a whole lot of difference- but I'll be damned if I trust Digigdesign's 'scientific proof methodology' for this issue.
It isn't as though they are exactly impartial, now is it?
Old 11th September 2007
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave View Post
really? So if, down the road, no one can hear it, you'll get out of the business?

They may be honesssst, but they are not practical. Record labels would LOVE to see a resurgence in vinyl, 'cause it has to be manufactured and packaged and sold instead of downloaded. While vinyl is making a small comeback among DJs and enthusiasts, I wouldn't predict a "resurgence" of any magnitude compared to digital.

In order to "steal" vinyl, you actually have to go to a store and steal it.

-g

great ears are with me - the best musicians are with me - people who
can really play, and really sing and really hear, hear tape - this will not
go away in my lifetime
tape is practical - 8 track in particular - live music mixes itself - great players
mean no edits

5,000 units of amazing vinyl priced at $22.99 works
the resurgence will be significant in that it will represent quality work
there are several vinyl only lables starting in nyc right now - all connected
to talented people

it will be a small market - until the public hooks up with that honesty - something
they crave


be well


- jack
Old 11th September 2007
  #24
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Knastratt's Avatar
 

I'm enjoying the beer.

I work ITB but would like to get the tracks OTB at some time in the process.

Can't afford it at this time though. I DID manage to get my chain high-end, though. Just not the OTB part, that is.

Peace - Knastratt!
Old 11th September 2007
  #25
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poncival's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by poncival View Post
Analog is better, everybody who doesn't agree is just plain wrong

Sorry, I just always wanted to say that on here...

I am actually working on an HD right now. And an SSL. The music tracks went to 2" through a Neve with some outboard gear, then to Pro Tools for slicing and dicing. Now it's coming back out through some Apogees. Then back in through some Apogees...

Analog, Digital? It's all Gravy man
Old 11th September 2007
  #26
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Tibbon's Avatar
Hey guys, 90% of (non-DJs) the people listening to vinyl are doing so on crap tables, with crap preamps, with crap speakers, and think that the joy of vinyl is the fact that it (can) crackle and pop. They think it's supposed to sound ****ty and think that's the allure of it.

We know that isn't the case, but most vinyl being sold really isn't being listened to 'well' anymore than the CDs sold.

Stores will not begin carrying vinyl again. It takes up too much space, is too heavy and doesn't work well as a loss leader. Plus it goes against them selling 400 CD changers and remote MP3 players.
Old 11th September 2007
  #27
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poncival's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Stores will not begin carrying vinyl again. It takes up too much space, is too heavy and doesn't work well as a loss leader. Plus it goes against them selling 400 CD changers and remote MP3 players.
One time I had a buddy who had about 5,000 albums in his apartment... Then his neighbor downstairs had a pretty serious fire while my friend was at work.

When he got home, the fire department was there and everything but the damage was not bad enough to keep him out of the apartment.

In front of his shelf there was a giant vinyl blob about 10 inches thick which had spread across most of the floor. I didn't see it but he said it resembled a giant black tongue.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that mp3's are a lot easier to clean up after when you have a fire.

So, uh, there's somethin'. Yeahhhh
Old 11th September 2007
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Stores will not begin carrying vinyl again. It takes up too much space, is too heavy and doesn't work well as a loss leader. Plus it goes against them selling 400 CD changers and remote MP3 players.
Not to mention it breaks if your girlfriend throws it at you.
Old 11th September 2007
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
sluttygearhere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
the future of recorded sound has two groups : analog and people who don't care


as far as I am concerned I'll be using analog until the day I die. I hate mixing ITB. To me it kind of kills my creative mood when mixing, and what about pushing your preamps to the edge sometimes to get a certain sound? You can't do that ITB. I love Protools, the editing, song building, and even automation capabilities. But when in the end, for me, it has to all come back to the console.

-- Ben
Old 11th September 2007
  #30
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilWave View Post

In order to "steal" vinyl, you actually have to go to a store and steal it.

-g

And digital's popularity is fueled by the larceny in us all !!
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