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PROOF THAT ANAOLOG IS NOT BETTER THAN PROTOOLS Equalisers (HW)
Old 11th September 2007
  #61
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5down1up's Avatar
 

what i liked most about those mixes is that the balance of the instruments are killer, especially on our beloved mr. shipleys work ( awesome michael ).
the rest of the debate is ... ??? kinda boring

for me its unbelievable what those puters are able to do, if it sounds good or not, guess thats still up to you.

Old 11th September 2007
  #62
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

I also vouch that it's amazing what those puters can do too!



just look at MILAR
Old 11th September 2007
  #63
Gear Nut
 
VT rich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Poulin View Post


I once purchased the mixing with waves book that explained how to use the waves plugins... yea what a dissapointment! Most of the songs where pretty damn near mixed without any plugins even being on. (talking about sonically and not levels)


J.
yeah, so i'm not the only one who noticed that......
Old 11th September 2007
  #64
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I listened with the tv and air conditioner on.... and I only got one wrong. There is an obvious difference. Whether that difference is worth the price of an SSL....well who's to say.
Old 11th September 2007
  #65
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sada10's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Drop a record and it might break. Back to the store to replace it. Drop an mp3 player (fukk ipods) and if it breaks you still have a perfect copy of what was "lost". You retain everything bit by bit. In summation, fukk vinyl and fukk Apple especially. I hope you sleep well knowing vinyl basically dies with you. YOU are responsible for the "vinyl resurgence". Regardless of your opinion, vinyl is not having a resurgence with the younger generation. Lie to yourselfs all you want. They would NEVER. Let it go. Say what you want today. Years from now you will look ignorant (and you are). (This post is not about AlexLakis. You is the proverbial you. Yes, you old man.)
Dang-that was just a little harsh!
Old 11th September 2007
  #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAltiz View Post
Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

We're engineers, trust your enginEARS n' get the sound you want with whatever means possible
I have to agree with Scott (Quote edited for expedience)

and also with...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicdefault
The great thing about having to choose between analog and digital is that we have both at our disposal. Fortunately, for the sake of the music, we had the history of analog to teach us how digital should sound.
Dididesign has said repeatedly that their only responsibility with the digital summing was to get the math right, and they did. If you don't like the way that math sounds (like a lot of auteurs don't like the way digital video looks compared to film), then you have to learn to mix differently ITB than you would in the traditional analog way.

People like Fab who understand how Pro Tools does what it does when handling tracks and gain-stage automation and dynamics and summing mix to the inherent strengths of the DAW, and produce consistantly excellent results. He doesn't complain about any of it, he just figures out how to get the best possible sound out of it, and does.

If you've got a nice analog desk, good for you. If you love tape and don't mind all the tweakiness involved in using it, good for you. If you've got a DAW and know how to make it work, good for you too. In the end it's the talent of the artist, the strength of the song, and the talent of the producer and engineer (sometimes they are one and the same) to make it all come out right.

-g
Old 12th September 2007
  #67
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
I used Pro Tools HD! and love it.
But the Digidesign Challenge is not fair and totally realistic.

They gave an Hr to the engineer to make a mix!! as Mike Shipley stated...so they did not have time to make a much elaborated, complex and finished mix.

So to emuate those mixes were not as difficult as could really be is the engineers could have a full day to mix the songs!
If an experienced engineer can't get a 'basic mix' for one song going in an hour they may need to re-think a new career path.
The idea was to compare the basics and not get lost in the details, I would say it was fair and realistic.
Old 12th September 2007
  #68
Gear Maniac
 
Plec's Avatar
 

I'd just like to go on record saying...

Mixing all ITB made my mixes come out kind of narrow and harsh sounding in a way. Mixing all OTB made my mixes come out too blurry and un-defined (for me, and my way of working of course) and I didn't get the musicality I needed without all the options of automation and totall recall.

The best solution came to be the combination of great plugins for EQ and as much hardware for dynamics processing as possible and summing ITB.

With automation and total recall ITB I find that I produce better results on a more constant basis than with mixing OTB. I also noticed a danger when mixing OTB with regards to monitoring. When mixing on a console I always got surprises after I'd mixed down and the mix was back in the digital realm. Kind of like listening to vinyl compared to CD. Vinyl sounds totally awesome for the most part compared to CD, but when recording the vinyl onto digital, most of that magic is gone I think. I soon found that I had to monitor the signal coming back from the DAW after the final A/D conversion and straight to the monitors so I heard it "mixed down". After that my OTB mixes started to sound better since I started hearing what it was going to sound like coming from a digital medium... thumbsup

For some reason it made me think, consoles sounds best if you mix down to tape and release it on vinyl. But when going for a digital final medium it seems that listening through a console won't give you the right perspective... it always sounds better "live" than mixed down.
Old 12th September 2007
  #69
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
the future of recorded sound has two groups : analog and people who don't care
More like: people who wish they could afford analog and people who've accepted that they can't.

Fun to dream...
Old 12th September 2007
  #70
Gear Addict
 

I just listened to the hard rock and the alt rock comparisons and it was kind of obvious that the console mix was bigger and more 3D. Even on my crappy headphones. I think someday digital might match it but not today.
Old 12th September 2007
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Are you serious?

I thought the songs were soulless commercial drek.
are you ****disturbing again?
Old 12th September 2007
  #72
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
the future of recorded sound has two groups : analog and people who don't care
LMAO!!!heh
Old 12th September 2007
  #73
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
tape and vinyl are honest - they will have a resurgence in the coming decade -
they are the only medium that has proof of honesty
I'll never sell my wax cylinders.

-R
Old 12th September 2007
  #74
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thermos's Avatar
Anyone ever see that MR Show skit where David Cross was a diehard Victrola fan? He nailed basically everyone on gearslutz.
Old 12th September 2007
  #75
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sonicdefault's Avatar
What's interesting to me is that there seems to be a general consensus that mixes come together more effortlessly with analog gear. I comepletely agree with this having experienced it myself many times. So could this mean we should applaud all the more the people who are able to get great mixes ITB?... I think so. I also think that this itself is a reason that analog as a time saver is desireable. However, when you look at the ways that digital can speed things up, it's pretty much a null tradeoff. This is why so many people work in hybrid ways. You get the best of both worlds.

-SD
Old 12th September 2007
  #76
Gear Addict
 

Tape

I want tape only!!!!!!!
Old 12th September 2007
  #77
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Knastratt's Avatar
 

Still enjoying my beer. Keep on.
Old 12th September 2007
  #78
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
tape and vinyl are honest - they will have a resurgence in the coming decade -
they are the only medium that has proof of honesty
It would be nice to think so, but the chances for such a thing are very unlikely.

You gotta think of it from a perspective outside your own. The majority of ppl who are actively going out and buying albums will have no use for Vinyl, and even if Vinyl aroused their interests, I doubt most would go out of their way to purchase the neccessairy equipment for listening to vinyl.

Unless music enthusiasts like us decide to go out there and start buying as many vinyl copies as possible, I cant see vinyl making a real come back anytime in the future. There wouldnt be enough ppl behind it for a big enough push. Plus we cant count out the possibilities that DVD-Audio will bring to the music bizz once it makes its grand debut.

Most who buy Cds just end up ripping the songs off the CD and onto their computers for listening and putting onto their IPods, MP3s, or ITune/MP3 enabled phones, which now a days seems to be every cell phone.

I personally love listening to music as direct from the source as possible, and will pop in album CDs into the computer time to time. On the other hand, I have bought CDs for other ppl that just end up collecting dust after they ripp all the songs onto the computer.
Old 12th September 2007
  #79
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macgee's Avatar
i found there was a definite difference between some of the examples of ITB and OTB though in some cases i thought one was better and in other cases i thought the other was better.

i think ITB vs OTB currently boils down to (for me anyways) that one track may be better suited to be mixed in ITB and another track may be better mixed OTB

just like emulations of hardware EQ & Comps, somtimes the emulation works better than the original and sometimes vice versa!
Old 12th September 2007
  #80
Gear Nut
 

One thing that I think people forget when comparing itb with otb is that it`s not so much whether it`s digital or analogue but the fact you are only using one piece of sound generating equipment, kind of like the equivalent of everbody in the world using the same EQ !
The variation in computer`s is so small, mac,pc, only a few major bits of software be loads better if people used several different computers, vintage and new, lot`s of different soundcard`s simultaneously which is currently not possible, shame, I`d love to use high end sound cards alongside cheap ones I think you get my point.
thanks bye
Old 12th September 2007
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by poncival View Post
Analog, Digital? It's all Gravy man
Gravy?

It's more like cake. Nobody cares what tools you used as long as it tastes good.
Old 12th September 2007
  #82
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Strange Leaf's Avatar
 

Whoever wrote the title on this thread, is this your keayboard?

Old 12th September 2007
  #83
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junya-eskimo's Avatar
Hey there

I am no expert but i don't think its a fair way to test both formats against each other...

Because i am sure they made one mix on either the Pro tools or Hardware first and then made the other to sound just like it...This "could" be possible with most high end desks, that does not mean they are all equal...

As someone mentioned here before, there are different approaches to mixing on both the Hardware and software...

How can we know if they did not just A and B until they got them sounding 1 on 1 the same...

If 2 separate producers mixed them without hearing the others mix then this could be acceptable as a fair test...

But, we will never know...

Thats what i think anyway...

Jun
Old 12th September 2007
  #84
Gear Maniac
 

I just saw the video. Couldn't get the soundfiles to work correctly in the player they were automatically sent to.

But one thing I noticed, was that none of these engineers looked happy. They just looked boooooooooooooooooooooored. Like: "actually we could make this sound alot alike...., hardly no difference......... INTB/OTB..........".

They didn't look like they were really believing what they were saying themself.

But obviously everyone should work in whatever way they feel suits them the best.
Old 12th September 2007
  #85
Gear Addict
 
RockDog's Avatar
 

hi

this is my humble opinion wrong or right i dont care but if 'guns an roses paradise city' was recorded itb with todays technology back then in 1987 the song would've still been a hit plain an simple, i think an awesome song recorded thru an analogue console or itb will still have the same outcome cause the general population of music listeners wouldn't have a clue or know any diff in any way
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