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PROOF THAT ANAOLOG IS NOT BETTER THAN PROTOOLS Equalisers (HW)
Old 11th September 2007
  #31
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Hey guys, 90% of (non-DJs) the people listening to vinyl are doing so on crap tables, with crap preamps, with crap speakers...

and it *still* sounds better than cd's.

truthfully, i find vinyl redeeming and listenable on almost any playback system, including single driver setups that have little more than midrange. by contrast, i find cd unredeeming and unpleasant to listen to on most playback systems.

analog is dead, long live analog!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 11th September 2007
  #32
Lives for gear
 

It doesn't have to be proofen anymore, does it? I thought it was clear that we are all aware of those facts, no? heh

So it seems the motto is : "It cannot be what isn't allowed to be; and that's a fact but hey we need more proofs!"

Indeed it's always a scandal if the truth is not the truth.

Anyway back to work, ITB, OTB, whatever...
Old 11th September 2007
  #33
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beyarecords's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
analog is dead, long live analog!
Indeed, long live DSD/SACD
Old 11th September 2007
  #34
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Quote:
They gave an Hr to the engineer to make a mix!! as Mike Shipley stated...so they did not have time to make a much elaborated, complex and finished mix.
I wonder how much time they spent on the ITB mix.heh

Anyhow, I would have rather heard an ITB mix done in one hour, while NOT trying to sound like the OTB mix and see which one we liked better.

Because at the end of the day, no one here mixes in the manner that this "contest" was brought forth.
Old 11th September 2007
  #35
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willerichey's Avatar
 

Fact: I just listened to this on computer speakers at work.

Fact: I am not an audio professional.

Opinion: I could tell a difference in the Pro Tools and Analogue Console mixes. The Analogue mixes sounded a tad bit fuller in the low mids.
Old 11th September 2007
  #36
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
and it *still* sounds better than cd's.

truthfully, i find vinyl redeeming and listenable on almost any playback system, including single driver setups that have little more than midrange. by contrast, i find cd unredeeming and unpleasant to listen to on most playback systems.

analog is dead, long live analog!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
I normally agree with you, but you've gotta be kidding me right?

That, has got to sound worse than even some crap from Bose or Sony.
Old 11th September 2007
  #37
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
and it *still* sounds better than cd's.

truthfully, i find vinyl redeeming and listenable on almost any playback system, including single driver setups that have little more than midrange. by contrast, i find cd unredeeming and unpleasant to listen to on most playback systems.

analog is dead, long live analog!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Have you tried using a tube CD player?
Old 11th September 2007
  #38
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AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by poncival View Post
One time I had a buddy who had about 5,000 albums in his apartment... Then his neighbor downstairs had a pretty serious fire while my friend was at work.

When he got home, the fire department was there and everything but the damage was not bad enough to keep him out of the apartment.

In front of his shelf there was a giant vinyl blob about 10 inches thick which had spread across most of the floor. I didn't see it but he said it resembled a giant black tongue.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that mp3's are a lot easier to clean up after when you have a fire.

So, uh, there's somethin'. Yeahhhh
Yeah. Drop an iPod, lose your entire collection. Drop a record...pick it back up.

This "experiment" is old, there has all ready been a lengthy thread about this, do a search, it is interesting!

To those saying the ITB mixes lack all depth and character...was that before or after you cheated on the tests?
Old 11th September 2007
  #39
Gear Addict
 
Pyxis360's Avatar
 

Finally they've proved it, it's about time.

Man, those songs rock too.
Old 11th September 2007
  #40
Gear Addict
 

If you are a decent engineer you will make both sound great.

It's a non issue, use what you need or like I take digital for editing
anyday over analogue tape, Everything you go through, mics preamps
is all analogue, just use what you need.

Purism on either is senseless.
Old 11th September 2007
  #41
Gear Nut
 

an SSL is an SSL. if you want the sound of an SSL, you need an SSL.
Does this make SSL plugins bad? No. But would you really diss the SSL plugins for not sounding like an SSL? Who cares. They sound great, in a slightly different way.

Tape is Tape. if you want tape sound, get tape. Sure, you could get a tape emulater, but it's going to sound different then tape. If you like the sound of tape emulation, then whats wrong with that? It's all in the sound right?

Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

Protools is nice if you want some hands off automation.
Tape is nice is you want a lil' tape compression, or transient forgiveness
Analog desks are nice if you like the feel of pushing faders up and down, tweaking knobs, etc.
Email is nice if you don't want to write letters and put them in envelopes and pay for stamps and walk outside to your mailbox and put the little red thing up
Cars are nice if you don't want to ride a horse

Protools sucks if you clip
Tape sucks when you're aligning it, or when an intern leaves a demag next to a batch of tapes
Analog desks suck if you don't have the budget for the desk and all the wiring/patchbays etc etc
Email sucks on Christmas because your mom will say "What, you were too lazy to send a real card?!"
Cars suck because you need insurance, gotta put gas in them, and if you leave it parked outside when its raining flood water comes up to your windows

There's 80million other reasons to like or dislike one or the other. We're engineers, trust your enginEARS n' get the sound you want with whatever means possible

whew, i'm sweating.. all done now
Old 11th September 2007
  #42
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Tibbon's Avatar
Scott, you're right, protools sucks if you clip... but who the hell would clip out 24 bits? That's 144dB of dynamic range in theory. If you're trying to push PT's levels that hard, then there's a gain staging and calibration problem in your studio.
Old 11th September 2007
  #43
Gear Nut
 

I'm just speaking theoretically. I could pick apart my own things, obviously being very general.
theres reasons to like certain things, and reasons to dislike certain things
Old 11th September 2007
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

yes I do! Way more than that thin characterless sounding SSL. Hence the reason people can't notice the difference between that and a protools hehhehhehheh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Yea, gotta love that mid-low muddy transformer buildup!

Old 11th September 2007
  #45
Gear Addict
 
EliasGwinn's Avatar
 

It seems to me that the 'Pro Tools Challenge' is not so much a comparison between analog and digital recording/mixing platforms, but more a comparison between the Waves SSL bundle vs. the SSL console.

Were the 'analog-mixed' tracks recorded in Pro Tools? What A/D converters? What D/A's were used to feed the SSL console? Are we listening to apples, oranges, or both?

Tests like these need to be qualified with controlled elements, known constants, and single variables.
Old 11th September 2007
  #46
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyxis360 View Post
Finally they've proved it, it's about time.

Man, those songs rock too.
Good one.
Old 11th September 2007
  #47
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis View Post
Yeah. Drop an iPod, lose your entire collection. Drop a record...pick it back up.

This "experiment" is old, there has all ready been a lengthy thread about this, do a search, it is interesting!

To those saying the ITB mixes lack all depth and character...was that before or after you cheated on the tests?
Drop a record and it might break. Back to the store to replace it. Drop an mp3 player (fukk ipods) and if it breaks you still have a perfect copy of what was "lost". You retain everything bit by bit. In summation, fukk vinyl and fukk Apple especially. I hope you sleep well knowing vinyl basically dies with you. YOU are responsible for the "vinyl resurgence". Regardless of your opinion, vinyl is not having a resurgence with the younger generation. Lie to yourselfs all you want. They would NEVER. Let it go. Say what you want today. Years from now you will look ignorant (and you are). (This post is not about AlexLakis. You is the proverbial you. Yes, you old man.)
Old 11th September 2007
  #48
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Good one.
Are you serious?

I thought the songs were soulless commercial drek.
Old 11th September 2007
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis View Post
Yeah. Drop an iPod, lose your entire collection.
Only if you dropped your computer at the same time.
Old 11th September 2007
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VT rich View Post
"PROOF THAT ANAOLOG IS NOT BETTER THAN PROTOOLS"

Let the battle begin…….
I just listened and heard a difference. So what? What if the test were done with an SSL and Mackie OTB mix? There'd be a difference. What about different mics or techniques that cater to the characteristics on one format over the other? What about a zillion other variables?

Bottomline...and this has been said a zillion times as well...both formats are fine. If you're using the top gear for both, then you're going to be able to do great mixes/recordings. Would we all like to step into a time machine and go back to one of Bill Putnum's rooms in about 67 or so and see what we could do with that gear, in those rooms....now, there's the test. A modern song done on that gear. You want vintage...there it is. Multiple overdubs, tracking in synths, samples, multiple vox tracks, doubling or tripling guitar tracks....
How would the older setups handle this? Not too well, I'd say.
I know I'm going off track a bit here, but seriously, this topic should be off limits. Why not just bring up the Mac vs. PC again.

m
Old 11th September 2007
  #51
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet View Post
Why not just bring up the Mac vs. PC again.
As someone who majored in economics, there's no debate. If you have to ask, you have no grasp of economics. How Apple stays in business is a marvel of marketing. Long live Apple's inferior products at a premium price.
Old 11th September 2007
  #52
Gear Maniac
 
sluttygearhere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Drop a record and it might break. Back to the store to replace it. Drop an mp3 player (fukk ipods) and if it breaks you still have a perfect copy of what was "lost". You retain everything bit by bit. In summation, fukk vinyl and fukk Apple especially. I hope you sleep well knowing vinyl basically dies with you. YOU are responsible for the "vinyl resurgence". Regardless of your opinion, vinyl is not having a resurgence with the younger generation. Lie to yourselfs all you want. They would NEVER. Let it go. Say what you want today. Years from now you will look ignorant (and you are). (This post is not about AlexLakis. You is the proverbial you. Yes, you old man.)
Dude, seriously what's your deal? So what happens if Vinyl does make a resurgence .. then who's the one looking like an ignorant fool? I mean last time I checked you didn't control the market on CD's and Vinyl and suchforth. So what gives you the right to naysay with such authority? I personally hope that vinyl makes a comeback and all these crappy "musicians" if you want to call them that, disappear. But is it really that big of a thing to get so worked up about?

oh ... and Apple blows PC out of the water any day of the week. period.

Just my two cents though.

-- Ben
Old 11th September 2007
  #53
Gear Maniac
 
Plec's Avatar
 

I took the test and nailed it to about 80% which means that I heard a difference, but I can't say that one is so much better than the other... and for me it certainly doesn't justify spending 60 times the money to have an "equally good" or somewhat better analogue setup. I mean, you can have a pretty decent digital mixsituation for about $5 000-$10 000 if you go no-protools. Get an SSL and you're at $200 000 without even looking at anything else.

Sure, if you do have the money.. go for it!
But all clients have come to expect the convenience of digital mixing. You need total recall of pretty much every parameter. The stuff people get up to today just demands all the digital possibilities, and they don't even realize it. More times than I can count, I've had the situation when mixing that the client wants a certain thing at a certain point in time in a certain way, and I can do that with 30min in the DAW... but on a board without total recall, automation and anything less than 48 channels would've taken 3-4 hours, and people just can't seem to afford that either.
Old 11th September 2007
  #54
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Are you serious?

I thought the songs were soulless commercial drek.
Uh, I think that was some dry humor.
Old 11th September 2007
  #55
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beyarecords's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller View Post
Have you tried using a tube CD player?
Or even an NWO-2.5?!

APL Hi-Fi EsotericUx1
Old 11th September 2007
  #56
Gear Head
 

Well just hear the roaring minds of digidesign how just cant give up there dreams of total world domination lets face it they are not even close compared either a mix from a analog or digital console like it or not the dsp power on protools is like driving a old volvo
and wish it where a ferrari .sound is all about your ears ?
Old 11th September 2007
  #57
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sonicdefault's Avatar
The great thing about having to choose between analog and digital is that we have both at our disposal. Fortunately, for the sake of the music, we had the history of analog to teach us how digital should sound.
Old 11th September 2007
  #58
Gear Nut
 
VT rich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
I think you are late to the battlefield, there is a seizefire in place as we speak .

LOL.... no i've been here for a while. It just seems before they were fighting with sticks and stones, he said she said stuff ya know. Now Digidesign is trying to bring out the heavy HEAVY Artillery, by doing tests that "HAVE NEVER BEEN DONE....?" whith "QULIFIED" engineers. I'm not saying this test isn't unique and that the engineers aren't qulified its just.....well.....maybe just a bit biased. This thing seems to me to be a sort of religion to people. If you beilive one way or the other you will tend to have "PROOF" for why you believe that way. Just the way so many different religious groups can have such radically different and contradicting views but they all point to the bible for why the believe the way they do. The ANALOG and DIGITAL religions are the same, on both sides zealots who worship a God.... their God most the time unfortunaly is their own opinion and they will fight to the death to prove they're right.
Old 11th September 2007
  #59
Gear Nut
 
VT rich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
Or let's not and you just go push the 'search' button and read all the analog vs digital, itb vs otb threads.


Believe me I have probably read most of them, though none of them i could find came with a nice little video and sound examples though. This thread isn't JUST about the ITB v OTB mixing but also the lengths to which a company will go to convince people. And i guess i wanted to know what people thought of the way Digidesign is trying to convince people.
Old 11th September 2007
  #60
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

I still haven't heard the files yet since my internet connection is **** right now but...

What I usually dislike about these shootouts are:

Some of these comparisons may have a great deal of analog processing during the tracking.

I think a real good shootout would have to be as raw as you can get it to really have a just argument.

What type of signal chains where involved while recording?

Neve/1073 eq/1176/La2a/Distressor then into pro-tools? Then they say protools sounds just as good as analog after mixing? **** the song is already processed even before it hits the converters.



I once purchased the mixing with waves book that explained how to use the waves plugins... yea what a dissapointment! Most of the songs where pretty damn near mixed without any plugins even being on. (talking about sonically and not levels)



So... how can it be fair?



(once again, forgive me since I can't hear these files yet... but you know where I'm coming from)

J.
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