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Telefunken Ela M 260 mic Condenser Microphones
Old 9th April 2008
  #61
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m260 comparison to m582

anyone have experience with both? how different or similar in your opinion are they?
thanks
Old 9th April 2008
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

China floods our country with 10 billion t-shirts and mosty disposable Chinese junque.
They have fueled a race to the bottom and robbed jobs from us. They have flooded our little corner in junky cheap audio ****.
Actually it the Americans doing it not the Chinese. It's American companies flooding the American economy with Chinese manufactured goods. The notion of capitalism is a joke in the US and Adam Smith must be rolling in his grave.

Anyhow, what do you want from a nation that thinks that casting a vote and going back to sleep for four years is a democracy?

And then to add insult to injury you blame it all on George W. Bush? What a joke, what an excuse! Is it a democracy or not? Or is it just a system for scape goats?

Plush you seem to be an expert at blame - why not look in the mirror. Clinton or Bush have no chance when the people are sleeping. They have no power and they are at the mercy of those who care. And it seems that's only corporatist America in your country.
Old 9th April 2008
  #63
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Hello Kats,

What are ya, a Euro? I'm not an expert in blame, I'm an observant commentator.

The American people are not asleep. Current events prove it.

I buy nothing of what you said.
I stand by my comments.
Old 10th April 2008
  #64
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Hey analogbrain, I'm in Hogtown, too!
Old 10th April 2008
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Hello Kats,

What are ya, a Euro? I'm not an expert in blame, I'm an observant commentator.

The American people are not asleep. Current events prove it.

I buy nothing of what you said.
I stand by my comments.
1. No I am not a "Euro".

2. You may be a commentator, but not very observant.

3. Current events prove what? Is the trend changing and I missed it? More manufacturing jobs for US workers? Higher wages? Tarrifs on countries that have no labor standards? Or do you just mean beating up athletes carrying a torch?

4. Stand by your comments? How, have you offered any argument? You stand by your comments the same way John Edwards "takes responsiblity" for his vote for war in Iraq - that is, just saying "I take responsibility", instead of doing the honorable thing a resigning. Just saying "I take responsibility" isn't taking responsiblity, just like standing by your comments with your mouth shut isn't standing by your comments.
Old 10th April 2008
  #66
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AnalogBrain's Avatar
 

Hey Kats,
thumbsup
Old 10th April 2008
  #67
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Bottom line is people want cheaper prices. Walmart isn't as big as it is by mistake
Old 10th April 2008
  #68
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Plush's Avatar
My arguments and point of view are stated clearly in this thread. One would have to read the whole thread to absorb them though.

I welcome the discussion and I remain impervious to the adolescent insults offered over the last few days. I'm a grown ass mang.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming. . . (which mic is the best to catch the sound of ?)
Old 10th April 2008
  #69
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ChuckG's Avatar
 

I don't see why we have to argue about the mics. I think some people get way to wrapped up in the history of the piece of equipment and never just appreciate it for what it is. It is a great mic and vintage or new, Telefunken or AKG, it's a great mic to own.

Ian I would like to than you and the rest of the people at Telefunken USA for continuing on the legacy of the company and making some great microphones. You have obviously taken the time to carefully recreate the mics to the full extent you can and believe me they sound really good.

I am saving up to buy a R-F-T M16 MkII and a Ela M 260 to add to my collection soon.

Keep making great mics.
Old 10th April 2008
  #70
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Weepit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Yada Yada Yada..............

How does the mic sound? Thats the question here.

Its sounds amazing! I think if you at all like the color of the AK47, you will flip over the M260. Its has a depth that many other SDC's don't offer in the bottom octave. Its very detailed and "roundish" in the top end, and simply nuetral throughout the midrange. Even though it has a roundish top end, it still has clarity and quick transient response, but its simply smooth as glass on every source.

It works really well on acoustic GTR, drum overheads [try floor side with the three mic setup], any kind of string instrument and certainly percussion. I have also found that it works well with every preamp in the rack, but my favorite preamp to use with the M260 is the Martech MSS-10.
What a fantastic description! Finally. It's detailed and roundish. Simply neutral through the midrange folks! Not just neutral - simply neutral!!! Guess what??? It is also simply smooth as glass!!!

I sure hope Mercenary sells this one.
Old 10th April 2008
  #71
Dan
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Dan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckG View Post
Ian I would like to than you and the rest of the people at Telefunken USA for continuing on the legacy of the company and making some great microphones. You have obviously taken the time to carefully recreate the mics to the full extent you can and believe me they sound really good.

Keep making great mics.
Back to one of the original objectiions. There was not care to recreate the original mic. They made a new mic, and named it after an old one. How is that admirable? They are not "continuing a legacy" It's a completely new company that took the name of one that's no longer around to sue them.

It's a little confusing, because on one hand Telefunken USA has made some recreations of vintage mics, but this is not one, even though it looks like one. On the other hand, the new mics Telefunken USA have produced are typically worthy products in their own right. (from my limited experience with them.)
Old 10th April 2008
  #72
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lambro's Avatar
who cares...

are new Ford Mustangs like the old ones...

are Daimler Chryslers the same as old pre Daimler models, really who gives a flyng fader, get the one you like

who cares where its made - it means NOTHING. What matters is HOW its made.

if the mic sounds good it is, if it doesnt its not, so far there have not been any bad 260 reviews and the price point is fair. Thats all you need to know save using one in person...unless you are working out some psychological problems through your gear purchases.

Star Trek TOS - William Shatner SNL - Get A Life - MyVideo
Old 10th April 2008
  #73
Dan
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Dan's Avatar
 

That's completely true. But, if Ford put a Mercedes logo on a Mustang, it wouldn't be an SL 600.

It would still be a fine car though.
Old 11th April 2008
  #74
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Mazo Audio's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=kats;1975741]Actually it the Americans doing it not the Chinese. It's American companies flooding the American economy with Chinese manufactured goods. The notion of capitalism is a joke in the US and Adam Smith must be rolling in his grave.

Anyhow, what do you want from a nation that thinks that casting a vote and going back to sleep for four years is a democracy?

And then to add insult to injury you blame it all on George W. Bush? What a joke, what an excuse! Is it a democracy or not? Or is it just a system for scape goats?

Plush you seem to be an expert at blame - why not look in the mirror. Clinton or Bush have no chance when the people are sleeping. They have no power and they are at the mercy of those who care. And it seems that's only corporatist America in your country. The people aint necessarily sleeping Bush never really won either election.

Well, I'm with Plush on this one. It does matter where stuff is made and it does matter if you decide to purchase it or not based on that fact. The government has degraded in this country to the point where the average person has more influence when they spend a buck that when the actually vote. (but they don't know that fact) I'm sure there are decent sounding chinese mics but I'll never buy one. I ask where all the stuff I buy is made.
Old 11th April 2008
  #75
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Quote:
The government has degraded in this country...
In a democracy the government represents the will of the people. The government degrades nothing, the people do. The power of the government is given by the people, for the people.

If you feel this is not true, why are you intent on "spreading democracy" around the world, when you actually think it's a disease?

Or do you think it's not a disease, that it works? What is it man, does it work or not?
Old 15th May 2008
  #76
bee
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Can anyone tell me what country the capsules are being made in? Please don't respond with "overseas". I would like to know exactly what country.
Old 11th July 2008
  #77
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can help with the old ones

hi everybody interested in technical discussion,

i have a pair of recently serviced old and original telefunken ela m 260 and i am pretty much interested in the differences between the originals and the new ones.
i love those mics pretty much and it is my main stereopair in the studio (with tfk v76, v72, a pair of original u47, emt 140, a studer c37,...).

i own them for about three years and gave them a complete electronic checkout by andreas grosser (german neumann expert) and nos ac701 tubes. the only issue is, that the capsules sound a little bit different. one of the capsules is marked with the known ck28, but the other one has an engravement (looks like handhammered) which says something like telefunken 00h.

one of the amplifiers has the two pins (that go to the capsule for the switchabel m261 capsule) in it, but the other one has only one pin.

andreas grosser told me (if i got him right), that the amplifier is pretty close to the ela m 250 with ac 701, but with a bigger and better (technically spoken) transformer. another guy (i forgot his name) told me, that the capsule (ck 28) is very complex and very well built (like the original ck12 capsule) and 100% human precise craftmanship. i personally don`t know the 250, but quiet some facts (including my ears) tell me, that the original ela m260 microphones are very very high quality microphones.

i almost always prefer them to a km54 or km84, everytime to a u87 and in many situations to my u47`s.

i am very interested in talking to people who have experiences with original ela m260, people who know, how to maybe rescin the capsules and people who have the "remake" for a comparison in my studio (northern germany, near bremen) to clear this myth (soundwise) with the new (and cheap) reissue.

concerning the productpolicy of telefunken usa with the reissue, my point of view is (and sorry, i am not a technician), that with the given facts (ac701 tube, very well built capsule, transformer at about the same builtquality of that one found in the ela m250) it seems to be a fake (even if the reissue is a good sounding microphone).

if only the look is the same between the original and the reissue, please give it another name, even if almost no-one knows the historic original.

i don`t know the reissue, but for me, it feels like putting a sm58 capsule and electronics in an u47-housing and sell it as a "not-really-the-same-as-original" u47 and cheat the people.

i could help out with pictures and maybe sounds, but first need to know, which details are important.

thanx and greetings from germany

andree.
Old 6th February 2009
  #78
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RichTone's Avatar
 

bump w/ hopes of Andree returning with a comparison update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rauschmeister View Post
hi everybody interested in technical discussion,

i have a pair of recently serviced old and original telefunken ela m 260 and i am pretty much interested in the differences between the originals and the new ones.
i love those mics pretty much and it is my main stereopair in the studio (with tfk v76, v72, a pair of original u47, emt 140, a studer c37,...).

i own them for about three years and gave them a complete electronic checkout by andreas grosser (german neumann expert) and nos ac701 tubes. the only issue is, that the capsules sound a little bit different. one of the capsules is marked with the known ck28, but the other one has an engravement (looks like handhammered) which says something like telefunken 00h.

one of the amplifiers has the two pins (that go to the capsule for the switchabel m261 capsule) in it, but the other one has only one pin.

andreas grosser told me (if i got him right), that the amplifier is pretty close to the ela m 250 with ac 701, but with a bigger and better (technically spoken) transformer. another guy (i forgot his name) told me, that the capsule (ck 28) is very complex and very well built (like the original ck12 capsule) and 100% human precise craftmanship. i personally don`t know the 250, but quiet some facts (including my ears) tell me, that the original ela m260 microphones are very very high quality microphones.

i almost always prefer them to a km54 or km84, everytime to a u87 and in many situations to my u47`s.

i am very interested in talking to people who have experiences with original ela m260, people who know, how to maybe rescin the capsules and people who have the "remake" for a comparison in my studio (northern germany, near bremen) to clear this myth (soundwise) with the new (and cheap) reissue.

concerning the productpolicy of telefunken usa with the reissue, my point of view is (and sorry, i am not a technician), that with the given facts (ac701 tube, very well built capsule, transformer at about the same builtquality of that one found in the ela m250) it seems to be a fake (even if the reissue is a good sounding microphone).

if only the look is the same between the original and the reissue, please give it another name, even if almost no-one knows the historic original.

i don`t know the reissue, but for me, it feels like putting a sm58 capsule and electronics in an u47-housing and sell it as a "not-really-the-same-as-original" u47 and cheat the people.

i could help out with pictures and maybe sounds, but first need to know, which details are important.

thanx and greetings from germany

andree.
Old 26th December 2009
  #79
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tapehiss's Avatar
bummer this thread was filled with more political issues and chinese manufacturing arguements...

but now that time has past:

someone in this thread asked if these mics are r-f-t or made in china?????
it seems they would be, considering that everything made by telefunken in the states costs a minimum of $8k.

as i'm sure these mics sound good and i have really been considering them.....

i am beginning to think they might be made by the manufacturer of the chameleon labs ts1, please someone correct my wandering intuition!!!!!!!

but the mics use the same tube from different brands and both come with a similar looking akg ck adapter, they look to be the same size.....

and if so i will save $2k and buy the chameleons....

if not, someone who knows please inform me.......

because they look like great mics, i'd just like to know a little more about them.
Old 26th December 2009
  #80
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Plush's Avatar
Looking back at the discussion, I see that after I asked if the mic was Chinese, Ian from TELE ELEKTRO AKUSTIK, dropped off the discussion.

I did find a Chinese mic I like. It is the Chameleon TS-1 large diaphragm tube mic.

Since we started this thread it has indeed been verified that the M260 is using a Chinese capsule and it contains electronics installed in the USA by TELE and an Oliver transformer from Kansas.

Perhaps TELE has a good handle on quality control for their CHI-COMM capsules. I won't buy one but I'll try the mic if I run across it in a studio or on a stage.
Old 26th December 2009
  #81
bee
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bee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Looking back at the discussion, I see that after I asked if the mic was Chinese, Ian from TELE ELEKTRO AKUSTIK, dropped off the discussion.

.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I've been interested in a couple of Telefunken USA products...but asking Ian questions about them was like pulling teeth. Seems like they don't want you to ask questions about their products and just expect you to shut up and buy them. They need help in PR department.
Old 26th December 2009
  #82
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tapehiss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bee View Post
That doesn't surprise me at all. I've been interested in a couple of Telefunken USA products...but asking Ian questions about them was like pulling teeth. Seems like they don't want you to ask questions about their products and just expect you to shut up and buy them. They need help in PR department.
i could only think of one reason to hide information about a product from the consumer..................



i just can't believe all the things i've heard about this company.....

their products seem great, but you have to pay $10k, and there appears to be a lot of deception behind their more reasonably priced products..........
Old 26th December 2009
  #83
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bee View Post
That doesn't surprise me at all. I've been interested in a couple of Telefunken USA products...but asking Ian questions about them was like pulling teeth. Seems like they don't want you to ask questions about their products and just expect you to shut up and buy them. They need help in PR department.
Whoo-hoo!!!

Ian is probably the second most over worked person at TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik... I however am not... so, if there are any questions you would like answered please feel free to ask. You can feel free to ask anything you'd like publicly and I'll be happy to give you the straightest answer possible, or you can ask me privately at [email protected]

I was hired in April of '09 to deal with these kinds of matters. The thread seemed to stop sometime in '08 so I think you can understand the gap.

So... here we are with the ELA M 260... which currently resides in the "R-F-T" offerings from TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik. This is the same line that offers the AK-47, the soon to be discontinued M-16 mkII and the soon to be released AR-51.

I'm not as familiar with the ELA M 260 as I am with most of the other products [sorry, I'm still on a bit of a learning curve], but I do know that the ELA M 260 comes with 3 capsules all built in China and rigorously tested to insure they meet specification in South Windsor, CT. The amplifier is based around a NOS TELEFUNKEN EF-732 tube [which is similar to an AC-701 but far less expensive and we have a few thousand in stock]. The power supply is also made in China... I believe the cable is made in Switzerland and assembled in the US but I'm not 100% sure of that... never thought to ask.

If you check out t-funk.com the website is VERY clear that this microphone is not a recreation of the original ELA M 260. From what I have been able to gather if a "historically accurate" recreation were to be made it would have to "street" in the $2500-$3k+ range which probably wouldn't find much of an audience [I know I sure as hell wouldn't buy one for that price when I could find a Shoeps M-221b or Neumann KM-56 for around the same price].

That said, on a sonic level the current iteration of the "R-F-T ELA M 260" is a pretty damn good sounding system [yeah, of course I'm biased... but there seem to be quite a few others who are relatively unbiased who agree with my observation].

Rather than taking anyone's word for it, I would encourage you to contact your favorite TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik reseller and arrange a demo of the mic in your studio, on your music, at your leisure.

As a note to "Plush"... I sincerely wish that the Chinese were not involved with Tibet in any manner or form. I sincerely wish that the Dali Lama could return from exile and continue his work. Unfortunately, this [along with peace in the middle east] is out of the grasp of my control. Even more unfortunate is that global economics continue to support these egregious human rights violations. At TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik we do all we can to manufacture as much as possible in the US. We just do not have the infrastructure to support building small diaphragm capsules in the US.

We have the infrastructure to build the amplifiers, so we do. We have very high standards of quality control for the capsules included in the microphones [the rejection rate is higher than anyone at T-funk would like]. We do what we can, but there are unfortunate economic realities in play here... realities that can not be worked around at this point and time. Hopefully in the future they can be worked around, but that day [unfortunately] ain't to-day.

Peace.
Old 26th December 2009
  #84
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bigbone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

I did find a Chinese mic I like. It is the Chameleon TS-1 large diaphragm tube mic.

The TS1 is the SDC the large diaphragm tube is the TS2...... which one are you talking about.

Thank you
Old 26th December 2009
  #85
Gear Nut
 
nharmonic's Avatar
 

Fletcher,

You wrote that the M-16 mkII is soon to be discontinued.

I own an AK-47 that gets a lot of use and have often thought about demoing a M-16mkII. I honestly wanted to hear a pair of M-260's first ... and then came news of the AR-51 .....

Would you fill us in on why the M-16 mkII is being discontinued?
Is there a part no longer available or is there simply not enough demand? Perhaps something else?
And when will this happen? sometime next year (2010)?

Would be nice to know as I prioritize upcoming 2010 investments. Thanks.

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas BTW!
Old 26th December 2009
  #86
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
The decision to discontinue the M-16 mkII was based on a few things... not the least of them is the continuing bull**** from the über dumbass move of releasing the microphone before the new amplifier was ready. Unfortunately the little guy got an ugly tag on him and no matter how much we try to explain that the "mkII" is a completely different machine... the stigma is attached. There are a couple of other parts that have become complicated to acquire so the decision was to discontinue the machine and replace the model with another.

That said... there are still several around with resellers and several more available from the factory. While the microphone will drop from the "current product offerings" in 2010 anyone who really wants one will be able to get one for a goodly amount of time without a struggle. Kinda the best of both worlds in my opinion though your mileage may vary.

Peace.
Old 27th December 2009
  #87
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sonicdefault's Avatar
I have experience with the new 260. If anyone has any questions, just pm me.


-SD
Old 27th December 2009
  #88
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andrewenson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
As a note to "Plush"... I sincerely wish that the Chinese were not involved with Tibet in any manner or form. I sincerely wish that the Dali Lama could return from exile and continue his work. Unfortunately, this [along with peace in the middle east] is out of the grasp of my control. Even more unfortunate is that global economics continue to support these egregious human rights violations. At TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik we do all we can to manufacture as much as possible in the US. We just do not have the infrastructure to support building small diaphragm capsules in the US.
met the dali lama my junior year when he came to hawaii and gave a speech in our football stadium. got to get upclose. me and my friends were all wearing "free tibet" shirts and one of my friends got a ring from a monk. the best speech i've ever heard in my life.

watch kundun. great movie about the dali lama

on another note. i want to buy a 260 regardless of if its made in china
Old 27th December 2009
  #89
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Plush's Avatar
Thank you, Fletcher for your words and effort to respond here. I think that you are the superior spokesman for TFUNK. Culling CHI-COMM capsules that don't measure up to TFUNK standards is the only way to go. We know that the Chinese routinely supply parts that have nothing to do with what was ordered.

For Bigbone--I'm referring to the large capsule Chameleon--the TS-2. You're right and I mis-wrote the model #.

I also really do like the AK-47 from TELEFUNKEN ELECTROAKUSTIK.

I also hope that Tony "Porsche" Fishman's race efforts are successful in 2010.

TFUNK has a credible spokesman now.
Old 27th December 2009
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher View Post
The decision to discontinue the M-16 mkII was based on a few things... not the least of them is the continuing bull**** from the über dumbass move of releasing the microphone before the new amplifier was ready. Unfortunately the little guy got an ugly tag on him and no matter how much we try to explain that the "mkII" is a completely different machine... the stigma is attached. There are a couple of other parts that have become complicated to acquire so the decision was to discontinue the machine and replace the model with another.

That said... there are still several around with resellers and several more available from the factory. While the microphone will drop from the "current product offerings" in 2010 anyone who really wants one will be able to get one for a goodly amount of time without a struggle. Kinda the best of both worlds in my opinion though your mileage may vary.

Peace.
This is a shame. The M16 is a great mic for a great price and gets a lot of use around here (i might even pick up a second one before they disappear altogether!)
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