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Something other than Pro Tools HD-Are there better ones out there and why! DAW Software
Old 7th September 2007
  #1
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Something other than Pro Tools HD-Are there better ones out there and why!

Ok...If not Pro Tools HD...What software are you guys using and why and will it hold up in the "commercial recording studio" world. I have nothing against going with another software I just want to make sure that when people come in and they don't see Pro Tools, am I limiting my customer base. Is Nuendo a good one, Logic Pro, etc...What makes these different than Pro Tools and is Pro Tools really all that good. The other side of it is plug-ins...are there a ton of plug-ins for these other software and what format are they. I also assume I would need a lot stronger computer system (more memory right?) Please any response is welcomed as I admit I am not all clear on this topic!
Old 7th September 2007
  #2
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daaronhoffman's Avatar
 

check out the Fairlight CC-1!
This is what I'd love to go to someday.
Using Nuendo 3 right now , which is great, but I like the dedicated ideas involved in the fairlight.

just too pricy for me right now.

Aaron
Old 7th September 2007
  #3
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Logic Pro with a symphony card and some Rosettas will definitely enable you to do everything you need to do. Almost all plug in manufacturers are making AU's now. No need to talk about Logic 8 (which doesn't exist yet) Logic 7 will do the job fine.

Don't let people scare you off with drum editing and vocal comping woes... it can all be done relatively easily with Logic. If you need help getting those things done, myself and several others are here for you to get you started.

I'd suggest getting a Profire Lightbridge and Pro Tools M-Powered just so you can open PT sessions and say you have PT when asked.

P.S. I owned an HD 1 system for over a year, and ended up selling it because Logic was a more comfortable environment for me.
Old 7th September 2007
  #4
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dubrichie's Avatar
AH JAYZUS NOT AGAIN!!!

did we not just survive a couple of weeks or more of "to ProTools or not to ProTools?" threads, polls and all-out gibberish?!
Old 8th September 2007
  #5
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foot..
i debated whether to reply, ....in case you were posting for a giggle...but what the hey.
ive recorded on everything from big studios down to cassette decks n loads in
between. (i'm just a songwriter.)

in my opinion the whole technology of recording landscape is changeing rapidly.
right now quad core computers are getting affordable.
(900 buk range.)
and many more processors to come.
rumours abound of start ups that are gonna do 1000 processors on a chip.
this type of technology will change the whole landscape of recording studios dramatically imho.
i suspect in 10 years ....(mebe revisit this thread then..) ,
we will have gone through tech change of earthquake proportions related to studio tech.
right now i can easily do 80 tracks on a 600 buk dual core computer.
thus you need to decide strategically how this tech change will impact you over the coming years...and whether or not its prudent to spend lots of money right now.
ive decided not to spend anything remotely large.
the trends are obvious. everything is moving into software .

just this week as an example my songwriting partner took one of my vocals and floored me when he put a lovely emt plate type sound round it.
this was a free software plug in.
irrespective of the technology pertaining to computer trends your gonna need as the heart of any studio... good convertors. (ada).
this is the "core". and of course a nice signal chain of mics n pre's etc etc.

many people will suggest many different options to you.
i would suggest at least getting HD on a short term rental so you have a base to compare. and record some tracks.
then do an objective comparison to the type of native system i use ,
and compare. once again recording tracks/workflow etc.
i feel this will help clarify things for you.
i'm not gonna push what i use at you.
just suggesting you try demos on a powerfull pc and make your own decisions.
(but make sure you use decent convertors so the comparison is fair on the recorded tracks.)
(if u wanna try reaper that i use. demo is at cockos.com.
in my opinion its a superb multitrack product, and might just save u a bundle of buks if it fits your needs.
recently someone posted at cockos a screen shot showing it running on 8 processors with an insane number of traks and plug ins running. recorded SOUND QUALITY will purely depend on how much your willing to spend on getting the audio signals into the pc.)
good luck.
Old 8th September 2007
  #6
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Logic Pro with a symphony card and some Rosettas will definitely enable you to do everything you need to do. Almost all plug in manufacturers are making AU's now. No need to talk about Logic 8 (which doesn't exist yet) Logic 7 will do the job fine.
Old 8th September 2007
  #7
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by roelando8 View Post
Logic Pro with a symphony card and some Rosettas will definitely enable you to do everything you need to do. Almost all plug in manufacturers are making AU's now. No need to talk about Logic 8 (which doesn't exist yet) Logic 7 will do the job fine.
hmmm... I think I read that line somewhere before?!?
Old 8th September 2007
  #8
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Haha. Quoting you being quoted by someone else, I'm confused
Old 9th September 2007
  #9
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studiogeek's Avatar
 

I'd suggest getting a Profire Lightbridge and Pro Tools M-Powered just so you can open PT sessions and say you have PT when asked.






kidding
Old 9th September 2007
  #10
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The closest thing to Pro Tools is going to be the Logic Pro / Symphony combo. You could also run Logic or Digital Performer on Pro Tools hardware if you wanted.

If you are starting from scratch, I'd advise going with Pro Tools. I've been using Logic for years and have the most familiarity with it, which is why I've never changed.

And just on the record, I think comping vocals on Logic is actually easier than doing it on Pro Tools. Most people just don't know how to do it the right way.
Old 9th September 2007
  #11
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Andrew Kinsey's Avatar
 

Im using Nuendo, and find it a joy to work with including Audio Editing, Midi Editing, Automation, and most importantly reliability.

I have also done listening test against Logic and Nuendo, very simple just import your favorite song into an audio channel and listen to the difference between programs. I found that Nuendo sounded noticeably better.

I a client of mine, who used to use Nuendo, told me that in his opinion Sequoia & Pyramix both sounded better than Nuendo. We shall soon see as im going to be demo'ing a Pyramix system next week!

Old 9th September 2007
  #12
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I have somewhere around 10 music apps that I can compose in installed right now. If I can't make good sounds on them I'd blame myself rather then the DAW because they're all more than capable.

Go in and try the major ones (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, perhaps Digital Performer and Sonar as well) and see which workflow fits you best. Of course, I have heard that if you want to do the whole studio thing you'll get more clients if you use Pro Tools. I wouldn't really know though, I'm not really a part of that world, I do different work.
Old 9th September 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
And just on the record, I think comping vocals on Logic is actually easier than doing it on Pro Tools. Most people just don't know how to do it the right way.
If you're talking about Pro Tools LE I definitely agree because it stinks at it (and Logic doesn't). HD is very good for comping though.
Old 9th September 2007
  #14
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laser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Kinsey View Post
Im using Nuendo, and find it a joy to work with including Audio Editing, Midi Editing, Automation, and most importantly reliability.

I have also done listening test against Logic and Nuendo, very simple just import your favorite song into an audio channel and listen to the difference between programs. I found that Nuendo sounded noticeably better.

I a client of mine, who used to use Nuendo, told me that in his opinion Sequoia & Pyramix both sounded better than Nuendo. We shall soon see as im going to be demo'ing a Pyramix system next week!

I auditioned Sequoia and Pyramix (24 bit, not DSD). Sequoia, for my system (I track on a RADAR) sounded noticably better--so I bought it. I've been extremely disappointed with Samplitude/Sequoia's ability to integrate with hardware controllers, hardware inserts and the Lynx PCI card. First two are very limited, third is a crap shoot with both companies pointing the finger at each other.

No complaints about the sound, though. And, object editing is very cool. If you prefer to do things totally ITB and use a mouse, I highly recommend Samplitude or Sequoia. Otherwise, you may be better off going with Nuendo 4 when it comes out in a few weeks, which is where I'll probably end up.

Laser
Old 9th September 2007
  #15
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I bought PT HD3 when computers were single core (G4). But if I had to start all over now I would go for Nuendo/Apogee/UAD cards and kick ass G5.

nIC
Old 10th September 2007
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Are there other kinds of Dsp type cards like HD, UAD-cards out there?
Old 10th September 2007
  #17
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barryjohns's Avatar
 

If you can handle working in Logic Pro, then I agree, Logic Pro with Apogee Rosetta(s) and/or AD/DA 16's and the symphony cards will be a great system on a MacPro. As far as Latency is concerned, it will perform as well as HD. Stability can be iffy. You will get a mixed bag of emotions on that statement. Protools HD is much more stable, but costly. Watch the DUC and issues are few and far between and often times operator error. Post simply don’t move very quickly over there. Go to Sonikmatter or Apple’s Logic Forum, and you will fine tons of issues. Granted many of those are from young kids who do not know their way around the program yet.

I tried, very, very hard to even get to the point that I could say I like Logic, let alone, love, but couldn't. I did the symphony route as well and was very impressed with it. I could track for days with tons of tracks, tons of plugs and track through plugs with latency as good as HD.

Big However, I have a great dislike for Logic, actually, I loath the program. So I went HD and could not be happier. I wish I had done it a very long time ago. Now, this is for me and not for everyone, I quickly concede that.

Again, if you can learn to love Logic Pro and can deal with occasional stability issues, then go Logic Symphony. Worth noting, instability can often times be operator error, my little disclaimer.

Good Luck.
Old 10th September 2007
  #18
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Ben F's Avatar
Sequoia definitely. One of the best DAWs out there, in terms of flexibility and performance.

Logic Pro? Too frustrating for me. Can't handle the automation bugs, or the way it handles audiofiles. Not to mention Apples refusal to do a decent upgrade.
Old 10th September 2007
  #19
Here for the gear
 

Metric Halo

Have a look at the Metric Halo + DSP systems. It's a portable, FW bus powered 1U unit with 4-8 software controlled pres, good converters (close to the apogees), built in meterbridge, amazing software control with built in recording app, adat, aes, spdif, wordclock, DSP with latency compensation, 8 in 8 out per unit (up to 3 units can me chained), software patchbay with instant recall ...

The DSP is like NIs reactor. There is a grid where you drag your dsp building blocks to make your own effects chain. You then drag your virtual patch cables to the I/O. It's amazing what you can do with this unit.

www.mhlabs.com

I'm currently test driving one with digital performer (i'd use protools but hate using their audio interfaces as software dongles). DP is very much like Pro Tools, but no dongles.

I absolutely need to show/ hide tracks I'm not working on. I can't stand clutter in my edit/mixing windows.
Old 10th September 2007
  #20
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Why don't you just ask your clients what THEY want.

If you have no clients, you have no business.
Old 10th September 2007
  #21
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
Sequoia definitely. One of the best DAWs out there, in terms of flexibility and performance.

Logic Pro? Too frustrating for me. Can't handle the automation bugs, or the way it handles audiofiles. Not to mention Apples refusal to do a decent upgrade.
Who said Apple is 'refusing' to do an upgrade ?

I personally think it's just around the corner , but not just a mere upgrade but an overhaul of the whole program ! I can wait for it, in the meantime Logic Pro 7.2.3 is powerful and stable.
Old 10th September 2007
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Nuendo 3 (i wish I had money for PT HD plus all the accessories).
Old 10th September 2007
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioS View Post
Nuendo 3 (i wish I had money for PT HD plus all the accessories).
Hmm. I thought Nuendo was good......I don't know, haven't tried it but hear from most users it's great. Just thought it was a cheap pro way to go other than PT HD.

nIC
Old 10th September 2007
  #24
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DeadPoet's Avatar
Please do not rule out Cubase as an alternative for Nuendo. It has the same audio engine and sound exactly the same, only *much* cheaper (and no post capabilities, but I'm guessing we're talking music here).


Herwig
Old 10th September 2007
  #25
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John Moran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by laser View Post
I auditioned Sequoia and Pyramix (24 bit, not DSD). Sequoia, for my system (I track on a RADAR) sounded noticably better--so I bought it. I've been extremely disappointed with Samplitude/Sequoia's ability to integrate with hardware controllers, hardware inserts and the Lynx PCI card. First two are very limited, third is a crap shoot with both companies pointing the finger at each other.

No complaints about the sound, though. And, object editing is very cool. If you prefer to do things totally ITB and use a mouse, I highly recommend Samplitude or Sequoia. Otherwise, you may be better off going with Nuendo 4 when it comes out in a few weeks, which is where I'll probably end up.

Laser
on Sequoia

fwiw, i had a mastering rig with Sequoia and the Lynx AES16 card and had no problems at all including multiple i/o looping/capturing thru an external analog chain of quality. Similarly, I had Houston Grand Opera members in doing some tracks onto our PT-HD/A/3 (outside client demand forced the purchase, woe unto the sheeple and us for that forced decision) and when the HGO producer found out I also had a Sequoia rig in another room, he wanted that moved into their room instead of the PT. Now there was producer who knew his stuff.

Currently using Sequoia on a mobile setup and it is simply excellent and rock solid. Been extensively thru DP, PT (even back to sound tools), Wavelab, Sonic, SSL ScreenSound (which was a good a/v post-prod box in its day) and Sequoia is the best so far. Logic is sort of kludgey to me in its current incarnation and the crossfade editing is weak so I've never pursued that any further than evaluation. Am now planning a new setup and pondering the future possibilities while waiting to see what AES unveils.
Old 11th September 2007
  #26
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bill3107's Avatar
 

I am interested in this discussion guys ... i am thinking about Samplitude because i am rather audio than midi by now. I think that the economic aspect is also important for some of us : Samplitude 9 Pro is very cheap now (may be because of a V10 fuuck drawing near ? you can find it half the price now ...) if you compare it with Nuendo for example (3 times that of SAM9 !) although i know quite well this latter.

Actually, i would say that the choice of the sequencer depends on your needs but also your gear :

- PT hardware means a "free" sequencer ...
- UAD gives a very comprehensive bunch of effects
- SonicCore / Creamware boards will give you effects and synths
- Logic gives, as a sequencer, very good native tools

As i know all of them thanks to my friends, i would say that all these systems rock !

I mainly use the plugins from my DSP system made of 2 creamware (now called soniccore) boards which represent more than 20 dsp. And yes this plateform offers very good tools as soon as you focus your attention on the BIG 3rd party developpers (who also develop for UAD and PT !) and also the synth (which is the strength of this platform ; i should mention John Bowen's synths, the well-known Flexor and other myth emulations...). I just chose this solution because the others were more expensive when you consider the plugins prices... For the same price i have good converters, more tools, effects, synth and i only purchased 2 VSTi (from spectrasonics...). But someone rather effects/mixing oriented may prefer UAD for example or PT for other reasons. Just a different option, really ...

I will probably chose Samplitude now as i already have many tools (effects, synths) and a very good flexibility (a kind of Logic wiring) within this soundcard software. Just my 2 cents of course ...
Old 11th September 2007
  #27
SK1
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SK1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit View Post
Why don't you just ask your clients what THEY want.

If you have no clients, you have no business.
Because, we're supposed to be the recording experts.

I tell my clients what they want ....... which is to sound great !

Would you want a surgeon asking you what tools they should use for your operation ????

Who's more qualified ????

heh
Old 11th September 2007
  #28
SK1
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SK1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Logic Pro with a symphony card and some Rosettas will definitely enable you to do everything you need to do. Almost all plug in manufacturers are making AU's now. No need to talk about Logic 8 (which doesn't exist yet) Logic 7 will do the job fine.

Don't let people scare you off with drum editing and vocal comping woes... it can all be done relatively easily with Logic. If you need help getting those things done, myself and several others are here for you to get you started.

I'd suggest getting a Profire Lightbridge and Pro Tools M-Powered just so you can open PT sessions and say you have PT when asked.

P.S. I owned an HD 1 system for over a year, and ended up selling it because Logic was a more comfortable environment for me.
I'm in total agreement with Rufuss on this.

I have logic/ad16x/da16x on a G5 dual 2.7 w/ a profire lightbridge to interface the apogees into ptle when needed. It's a rad system.

Old 11th September 2007
  #29
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Pyxis360's Avatar
 

Put your money in your converter and your pres and choose a DAW who's work flow you like best.

Pro Tools has a rep and some good exclusive plugins. That's changing however.

Don't be fooled into thinking you need some packaged system by Apple to get "close" to PT.

Converter and Pres. The rest is knowledge and experience.
Old 12th September 2007
  #30
Gear Addict
 

do a search and you'll get a lot of thread responses.

All i can say is if you do get a PTHD system.

DO NOT BUY A 192 I/O. THEY SUCKtutttutttutt

Look for Prism, Apogee, and Lynx Converters. Make Sure you have a good front end to your DAW. Digital Performer, Logic, and PTHD are cool. it just depends on how you work. get a chance to use a few different systems.

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