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Which sounds better PCM 70 or PCM 80? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 12th April 2013
  #91
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeker of Rock View Post
I like the Rich Chamber in the 70 a lot, too.
That and Tiled Room are the two main reasons to want one. IMHO
Old 13th April 2013
  #92
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rbarrera's Avatar
My vote is for the PCM 70. I like the classic sound. Any limitations in this unit are a good thing. It has a distinctive character. The reverbs are rich and warm and the mulitap delays sound great.
Old 27th May 2015
  #93
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Hello gear slutz,
It is the time for me to buy a good reverb for my setup. I am about to buy a lexicon pcm 80 as it is the only lexicon that I have listened to (and can afford it) that made me say "this is it!". The only thing that keeps me from buying it is all these comments about the pcm 70. I have never listened to that reverb unit plus I can't find any samples of it on YouTube or any other site. Everyone talks about a tiled room preset which I suppose is useable in drums. That's cool but my main purpose is long reverbs. Plus I'm not a guitarist I make electronic music. I don't really care about delays Flangers choruses etc at the moment but surely I would like to listen to those too. The only thing I know so far is that the Pcm 70 has only one mono input but has better a/d d/a converters. The reverbs I like are the lexicons 224 480 and 960 but I can't afford them so my next choice so far is a pcm80 which is different but I really like it. I'm not going to buy a pcm 80 until I listen to a pcm 70 though. Can anybody send me samples of a pcm 70? I'm interested for long reverbs but I'm also curious about the tiled room preset.
Alex
Old 27th May 2015
  #94
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Soothing Sound's Avatar
PCM 70, tiled room, psycho echoes are just a few favorites, love to plug my mono out from Korg Polysix to this unit.
Old 27th May 2015
  #95
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burns46824's Avatar
PCM 70. Love it.
Old 27th May 2015
  #96
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Tiled room is also fantastic on synths. But it is mono in. Have you considered a lexicon plugin instead? Worth demoing.
Old 28th May 2015
  #97
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Funny thing that many people rave about pcm 70 but there are no examples online. You can find samples of almost any other lexicon except pcm 70.
I have tried lexicon pcm native plugin. Not bad for a plugin but it still sounds plugin-ish (especially for that price). Still looking for some pcm 70 samples.
Old 28th May 2015
  #98
Gear Maniac
If I buy a version 3.01 will anybody be kind enough to give me the settings for the Tiled Room so I can recreate it here at home?
Old 28th May 2015
  #99
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TheBrightSide's Avatar
Love the PCM80. I bought it for reverbs but found it is just as good for the multi effects too (delays, chorus, modulation, stereo widening, etc)
These are a steal for the price these days.
Old 28th May 2015
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alekzis View Post
Funny thing that many people rave about pcm 70 but there are no examples online. You can find samples of almost any other lexicon except pcm 70.
I have tried lexicon pcm native plugin. Not bad for a plugin but it still sounds plugin-ish (especially for that price). Still looking for some pcm 70 samples.
What does pluginish sound like? In other words you did a double blind test with a PCM 80 and the PCM native and you repeatedly where able to pick out the Native as sounding worse or as you put it pluginish?

I would take the PCM native over an 80 any day of the week. The PCM 70 is about as close you can get outboard hardware wise to 224 unless of course you have a 224 or a 480L with a classic cart.

Don't get me wrong, I like hardware verbs for workflow when utilizing a desk, they crush software in that regard. But sound wise, when our 480 went down I used a relab 480 and we were able to match sonics to a point where no one could tell which was which in the final mix.

It really perplexes me the otb/itb when dealing with digital effects. And since this is not Salem mass circa 1700 I figure most people are rational rather than superstitious so

Either 1 and 0s sound differently when processed on different processors
or
converter technology from the 80s and 90s was leaps and bounds better than converters today
or
brick wall filtering and other tricks used due to technology limitations had an an effect of Neveifying the signal back in digitals glory days.

Otherwise how the hell does the same algorithm sound marvelous in a hardware device and crap in another hardware device that happens to be a computer.

Getting back to the original question, I sold my PCM 80s and 90s back in 2000 and I've never had any desire to buy them again. They were good effects processors that have been sonically eclipsed by everything from the Bricasti to the PCM native bundle. At least the 70 has some character. So if I had to have a hardware I'd go with the 70.

Last edited by Palermo; 28th May 2015 at 04:45 PM..
Old 28th May 2015
  #101
Here for the gear
 

Interesting point.
I didn't know that the pcm native plugin is the exact pcm 80 algorithm transfered to a computer. The plugin is very good but i have heard some pcm 80 sounds that must have come from space. They still sound different to my ears. I never used the word "worse" or "crap". It is all matter of taste, isn't it?

If nobody can hear the difference of the relab 480 and the lexicon 480 in the mix (which is probably true), just sell the lexicon and fill both your pockets with dollars.

Many people say that pcm 70 sounds closer to a 224 than it does to the PCMs. Sounds promising but i can't find a unit to test it or samples to listen to...

I'm also thinking about a strymon big sky, a really nice reverb!

Last edited by alekzis; 28th May 2015 at 06:19 PM..
Old 28th May 2015
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alekzis View Post
Interesting point.
I didn't know that the pcm native plugin is the exact pcm 80 algorithm transfered to a computer. The plugin is very good but i have heard some pcm 80 sounds that must have come from space. They still sound different to my ears. I never used the word "worse" or "crap". It is all matter of taste, isn't it?

If nobody can hear the difference of the relab 480 and the lexicon 480 in the mix (which is probably true), just sell the lexicon and fill both your pockets with dollars.

Many people say that pcm 70 sounds closer to a 224 than it does to the PCMs. Sounds promising but i can't find a unit to test it or samples to listen to...

I'm also thinking about a strymon big sky, a really nice reverb!

Yes you are correct the PCM 80 is different, the native shares its algorithms with the 92/96.

Not familiar with a strymon on but If your mixing through a desk or otherwise prefer hardware fx for work flow then the PCM 80 is a pretty nice versatile piece. I prefer its reverb based effects to the eventides of the day.

Another really cool fx box that has a lot of character and many great algorithms is the ensoniq dp 4. That is one of the few hardware boxes I actually miss. It never caught on in most big studios of the day because ensoniq wasn't considered really a proaudio name but I assure you having lived with the lexicons and eventides ans Tc electronics of the time the dp4 is a great sounding vibey pice that can be had for cheap.

Again with all the great software based effects that are sold as software rather than software and hardware, the advantages I see in buying a hardware piece other than say the Bricasti are strictly workflow.

With that said for the money a lexicon 300 can be sometimes found around 1000 as can the eventide sp2016. Good luck with the search

Last edited by Palermo; 28th May 2015 at 09:17 PM..
Old 28th May 2015
  #103
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by alekzis View Post
Hello gear slutz,
It is the time for me to buy a good reverb for my setup. I am about to buy a lexicon pcm 80 as it is the only lexicon that I have listened to (and can afford it) that made me say "this is it!". The only thing that keeps me from buying it is all these comments about the pcm 70. I have never listened to that reverb unit plus I can't find any samples of it on YouTube or any other site. Everyone talks about a tiled room preset which I suppose is useable in drums. That's cool but my main purpose is long reverbs. Plus I'm not a guitarist I make electronic music. I don't really care about delays Flangers choruses etc at the moment but surely I would like to listen to those too. The only thing I know so far is that the Pcm 70 has only one mono input but has better a/d d/a converters. The reverbs I like are the lexicons 224 480 and 960 but I can't afford them so my next choice so far is a pcm80 which is different but I really like it. I'm not going to buy a pcm 80 until I listen to a pcm 70 though. Can anybody send me samples of a pcm 70? I'm interested for long reverbs but I'm also curious about the tiled room preset.
Alex
I recommend looking into the Relab LX480 (I'm selling a license in the classifieds) or Valhalla Vintage Verb plugins before committing to outboard. Those reverbs will sound more like a PCM 80 (better than one I think) than the PCM Native bundle. Plus old Lexicons are pretty much impossible to fix if certain parts die. Luckily I prefer the plugins at this point. I had a PCM 70, and have worked with 80s and 90s, for what its worth.
Old 31st May 2015
  #104
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palermo View Post
What does pluginish sound like? In other words you did a double blind test with a PCM 80 and the PCM native and you repeatedly where able to pick out the Native as sounding worse or as you put it pluginish?

I would take the PCM native over an 80 any day of the week. The PCM 70 is about as close you can get outboard hardware wise to 224 unless of course you have a 224 or a 480L with a classic cart.

Don't get me wrong, I like hardware verbs for workflow when utilizing a desk, they crush software in that regard. But sound wise, when our 480 went down I used a relab 480 and we were able to match sonics to a point where no one could tell which was which in the final mix.

It really perplexes me the otb/itb when dealing with digital effects. And since this is not Salem mass circa 1700 I figure most people are rational rather than superstitious so

Either 1 and 0s sound differently when processed on different processors
or
converter technology from the 80s and 90s was leaps and bounds better than converters today
or
brick wall filtering and other tricks used due to technology limitations had an an effect of Neveifying the signal back in digitals glory days.

Otherwise how the hell does the same algorithm sound marvelous in a hardware device and crap in another hardware device that happens to be a computer.

Getting back to the original question, I sold my PCM 80s and 90s back in 2000 and I've never had any desire to buy them again. They were good effects processors that have been sonically eclipsed by everything from the Bricasti to the PCM native bundle. At least the 70 has some character. So if I had to have a hardware I'd go with the 70.
Yeah, some people just bring a "it's a plugin so it's not as good" bias to the table. I bought the PCM plugs as soon as they were released for that original price. At the time I owned several Lexicon pieces--pcm80, pcm90, pcm70, Nuverbs (300). It wasn't long until I gradually sold all the hardware. The plugs are that good and I still use them. As far as hall reverb I had originally went to the RandomHall but somewhat recently I discovered how incredible the newer LexHall algorithm is. It's cleaner and more spacious yet somehow more lush and thicker; it's become my go to for halls. Recently got the PCM Native effects too and they are excellent as well.
Old 31st May 2015
  #105
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If you're running a Studio with paid clients and simply "NO TIME TO WASTE" on time for messing around with Reverb & Effects units then the units below like:

PCM-70
H3000
Rev-7
PCM-41/42
PrimeTimes
and 6-8 Korg and Roland FX Processors & Reverbs are the way to go!

Having said that, if you have the time and inclination to "DIG INTO" the programming of the PCM-80/81 and the DSP4000/7000 series of Units alongside Lexicon M300 /M200 or 224/X/XL or Bigger Units like a Quantec QRS, TC M3000/4000/5000 etc. Then get some great Presets for Drums, Vocals, and Random Hall + Ambience going you'll be set to turn on registers in a session knowing these reverbs work 100% just as FX Units should!
Old 31st May 2015
  #106
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Both units are must have IMO.
PCM 70 reverbs
PCM 80 chorus, delays..

I think to buy PCM 70 again somewhere from eBay..
Old 31st May 2015
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abc1mce2 View Post
If I buy a version 3.01 will anybody be kind enough to give me the settings for the Tiled Room so I can recreate it here at home?
You can download all the presets from software v2 (which has the tiled room) and install into the user registers using sysex via a midi cable onto a v3 machine. This is what I have. Just google it or search on gearslutz.
Old 4th June 2015
  #108
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PCM-70 & DYNAMIC MIDI V.1x or 2.x or 3.x or 4.x

Quote:
Originally Posted by kedbear View Post
You can download all the presets from software v2 (which has the tiled room) and install into the user registers using sysex via a midi cable onto a v3 machine. This is what I have. Just google it or search on gearslutz.
I just want to address the Lexicon PCM-70's upgrade path from version 1.x to 2.x to 3.x etc. Originally the PCM-70 was a PCM-60 taken out with a Microprocessor, Display and other components added. Lexicon took a big dive into their uniquely named "DYNAMIC MIDI" - To say their "MIDI" was anything Dynamic about the PCM-70's Midi would have to be a laughing joke, it was appalling and often didn't work with certain other controlling devices, got blocked, over spilled, locked and froze in it's current State! Most PCM-70 Lexicon upgrades were added to upgrade and enhance the Dynamic Midi Function. Finally in version 3.x their was the "Inverse Algo added" a kind of Reverse Delay....though no matter what version of the PCM-70 unit you purchase, the O.S of version 1.x 2.x 3.x or 4.x means nothing save some new presets and occasionally "BETTER MIDI Function with the added Inverse Algo (That Algo is certainly not going to hurt the unit)!

There seems to be some kind of Net Folk "Lore" regarding version 2.2x and/or anything below should be avoided! Not True! You can if you want to and know where to look - Add a 1 Meg Dram to the 512K that the unit comes in as stock - often this can speed up the Processing and the Preset/Register Speed. Apart from that - Get the highest Number PCM-70 - O.S System you can possibly find! Why? Well........quite simply the higher the upgrade the better the response to all Algo's and their Dynamic Midi Allocation! You seriously want a PCM-70 unit that has been upgraded with as many Lexicon Upgrades as Possible! You can always Punch In the registers or use a System Ex Function to Get 2.x and 3.x Presets working together.......though the Folk Lore that a PCM-70 should only run on version 2.x with "Tiled Room & 3D Delays" and other Registers/Patches is utter garbage! You can quite easily find the version 2 or 3.x Patches for certain programs in Manuals, from Other GS users and on the Net. Oh.....And does the PCM-70 outgun the PCM-80/81 etc. No! These units both come from the 224/XL series of original Algo's etc. So if you want a PCM-70 though not the hassle of it breaking down - get a PCM-80 and turn up/Down the Low cut / Hi Cut Frequencies to make all Algos float around the 20-15kHz region or better yet return the FX to a Open Channels with Filters/EQ and cut from their. It's really that Simple!

Back to Normal programming!
Old 4th June 2015
  #109
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alekzis View Post
Interesting point.
I didn't know that the pcm native plugin is the exact pcm 80 algorithm transfered to a computer.
That can't be right at all. I own both a PCM 80 and the Native plugin. Not even remotely the same. First, the PCM80 has an array of different algorithms, not just one. And, a major difference, the PCM80 is not just straight reverb. It's reverb in combination with a variety of modulation effects that give movement and another dimension to the sound. It can be extremely 3D. I use the PCM80 when I'm looking for more than just a straight, static reverb. The PCM80 brings the "special sauce." And playing with the presets can bring a lot of unexpected surprises.

This was an old thread, but the question was "Which sounds better?" IMO, that's like asking, what sounds better, a guitar or a saxophone? It depends entirely on the effect you're trying to achieve.

Last edited by TheBuffaloCave; 4th June 2015 at 08:52 AM..
Old 4th June 2015
  #110
Old 18th September 2016
  #111
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Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Hi all


Can anybody help me understand the differences between the versions of PCM80 (and 81?)

I see the 80 takes the dual FX cards but needs to be at least v.1.1 for the Pitch Card.

I know the 81 had the pitch Algorythmic already inside.

So, is a non Pitch-compliant (pre v.1.10) PCM 80 still worth it or not? How does one update nowadays these things, or is it impossible?

Also, would today's list of good quality plugs (modulations because I know reverb plugs get in the ballpark) still struggle to get the nice fx if a PCM 80?
Old 18th September 2016
  #112
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italo de angelis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
Hi all


Can anybody help me understand the differences between the versions of PCM80 (and 81?)

I see the 80 takes the dual FX cards but needs to be at least v.1.1 for the Pitch Card.

I know the 81 had the pitch Algorythmic already inside.

So, is a non Pitch-compliant (pre v.1.10) PCM 80 still worth it or not? How does one update nowadays these things, or is it impossible?

Also, would today's list of good quality plugs (modulations because I know reverb plugs get in the ballpark) still struggle to get the nice fx if a PCM 80?


Lorenzop

the 80 came out before the 81. The differences are:
-81 has the pitch algorithms on board (no need for the Pitch FX card)
-81 has has 10+ seconds of delay memory. Can't be expanded.
-81 has 24 bit conversion.
-81 is ready for any card. No updates necessary-
-81 has AES/EBU and XLRs balanced inputs for analog signal.

The Pcm80 requires V1.10 to properly work with ANY card, Dual and Pitch. Its delay memory can be expanded to 42+ seconds with a couple of cheap SIMMs.
Conversion is 18 bit and no AES/EBU is available; only S/Pdif.

The 80 is great unit but if you intend to use Pitch FX it's probably better to get an 81. The alternative is getting the 80 and wait until a Pitch FX card shows up. Dual FX card is amazing... you must find one.

No plugs deliver the 80/81 multitap structures fx. And the sound....
Old 18th September 2016
  #113
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Old 6th October 2016
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstringer View Post
If you're greedy like everyone else, go for the PCM80, you'll get 250 more presets w/ the possibility to buy preset cards adding another 200 presets/card. The pcm80 is also a multi effect box so it's more versatile.
The Pcm70 only have 9 presets and only does reverbs.
Well that's simply wrong...though anyway!
The PCM 70 does multi effects they all do! (Save PCM 60 which has a SND/RTN Loop for Fx) still......
A dying breed though, there are more PCM 70 units on the scrap heap of life in the last 5 years the PCM 41/42/60/80/81/90/91 or PrimeTimes and 224's why is this? Most other units used generic parts and replacement parts are bountiful not so the PCM 70!
You've been warned they can easily got Kaput!
Old 6th October 2016
  #115
Old 6th October 2016
  #116
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Lastly let's all take perspective here!
PCM 60 $1,499
PCM 70 $1,999
PCM 80/81 $2,999/$3,250
PCM 90/91 $2,899/$3,350

Now - $550 to $650 for a seriously decent unit?
And people complain about PCM 41/42 and Primetime prices which were
$60/80/$100.00 Bucks same thing! Always buy low always Buy 2 Units!
It's really that simple!
Old 6th October 2016
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis View Post
Ahhh, Ha, Ha, Ha!
This old dumb thing? A Manual?
The old RTFM.......very old school, very!
no one now....reads those things noooo one! You watch Audio, no one listens Izotope it!
Instant record!

Whoops can't post pictures from my iPaddy thing!
Dang!
Old 6th October 2016
  #118
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italo de angelis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastByte View Post
Ahhh, Ha, Ha, Ha!
This old dumb thing? A Manual?
The old RTFM.......very old school, very!
no read those things noooo one!

Whoops can't post pictures from my iPaddy thing!
Dang!
That's why they sell... PEDALS!
Bend over and no reading!
Old 6th October 2016
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italo de angelis View Post
That's why they sell... PEDALS!
Bend over and no reading!
Yeah....you got me their, it's all X-Factor!
Just pathetic X- Factor! Stardust memories like a crystal 5th Shimmer from the tears or Prince knowing doves are crying....ohhh, dear?
WTFN?

A Plug In that actually takes a Poem or Lyric choice you Hit Melodyne, input add a 5th, 7th and 9th Diminished Verse-Verse -Chorus-Verse-Verse-Mid 8-Chorus fade out!

Done! Ozone and Izotope do the rest! Then the Kids in China are programming Digitech Effects, it's how secret messages get sent through to Trump! Whoops, I feel deletion coming! Lol! Me, I just picked up a JamMan - 32 seconds of Backwards/forwards freak effects! Ahhhh can you ever have enough old Fx units!
Lol best $50 bucks in my money spent Lol!
J.
Old 6th October 2016
  #120
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italo de angelis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastByte View Post
Yeah....you got me their, it's all X-Factor!
Just pathetic X- Factor! Stardust memories like a crystal 5th Shimmer from the tears or Prince knowing doves are crying....ohhh, dear?
WTFN?

A Plug In that actually takes a Poem or Lyric choice you Hit Melodyne, input add a 5th, 7th and 9th Diminished Verse-Verse -Chorus-Verse-Verse-Mid 8-Chorus fade out!

Done! Ozone and Izotope do the rest! Then the Kids in China are programming Digitech Effects, it's how secret messages get sent through to Trump! Whoops, I feel deletion coming! Lol! Me, I just picked up a JamMan - 32 seconds of Backwards/forwards freak effects! Ahhhh can you ever have enough old Fx units!
Lol best $50 bucks in my money spent Lol!
J.

This!
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