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doing a modular mixer thing... think this would be work? Consoles
Old 6th September 2007
  #1
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tyro's Avatar
 

doing a modular mixer thing... think this would be work?

Hi,

I'm thinking of going OTB, or should I say add some summing and HW eq:ing and such. I was going for a toft atb16, but I live after the devise that one should always get the best possible quality one can afford when buying things like this... the atb are probably great for the money, but I want a system I can work with for many years, and I'd also like some versatility in pres & eq (can't afford to buy both the atb and other eq:s, or at least I don't want to). I'd like to be able to expand as the money comes in, expand as you grow...

These are the requirements for me:
-16ch minimum
-pan, mute, solo, faders, talkback
-minimum 6 aux sends
-modular eq, patchable... don't need eq on all channels.

and this is what I came up with, that I think is the best I can get for the money... feel free to steer me in other directions and come up with suggestions:

1 Neve 8816 summing mixer
1 Neve 8804 faders
2 Shure auxpanders 8X8 matrix for aux sends
500-series racks of some sort, as needed.
A mixture of Speck ASC-V, Buzz audio tonic and API 560 to have a few different, but all good, flavors of eq. Will start with one or two of each, and buy some more of the kind I like most
2 API 525 patchable for bus comp or track comp


I will not have 16-ch outboard eq, but I'd like to have at least 6 eq:s. Add 2 A-designs P-1, 2 mono gamas, 2 Germanium 500 and 2 API 512C to the existing 2 Summit 2ba-221 and Joemeek twin-q (the only 4 remotely "professional" pres/strips I have, got caught in the prosumer **** with an octopre and an rme quadmic that I use now... Never prosumer again) and I should have a nice little setup for recording/mixing myself and my bands, no? Soundwise and workflow-wise...

Without the suggested pres (since I have other pres at the moment I can at least use the "mixer" now and add better pres later on) and with 4 eq:s to boot (pair of the specks, one tonic and one 560. Again, will probably add 2-4 to these when some money comes in), this would cost about 12000$ plus cabling and some patch solution. let's say about 13 grand including patch and cable and selfbuilt console for this.

As said earlier, I can not afford a good normal mixer AND different pres/eqs, it will have to be one or the other. And this setup sure seems sluttier plus there aren't really any mixers I know of in this price range, maybe a Neotek board but then again, I have all the same pres and all the same eq. I know just from swiching a mic between the octopre, twin-q and 2ba-221 how much difference a mic pre can make... So I'd like to have a few nice pieces of good pre at my hands.

for 13 grand I get Neve mix buss, faders, talkback, handson solo/mute/pan and a load of aux sends via the auxpanders (I mix dub/reggae quite a bit so sends are a must). Some nice eq:s (I do have MH Channelstrip and URS CSpro is on it's way... so I can do some eq/comp ITB too) and a pair of compressors for the 2-bus and when tracking/mixing by printing back.

SO: A good way to go in your opinion? Potential drawbacks or problems? Suggestions?

Thanks,
/Magnus
Old 6th September 2007
  #2
Gear Nut
 
tyro's Avatar
 

ah I forgot: If someone has a suggestion on how to get some sort of metering, in this rig, let me know... I could look at the converters, but I want to build a machine room. Relocating the studio and would also like to re-invent it too start with a load of new gear... Metering... gotta have metering. audio pass-through and then getting a bunch of leads or VUs showing the signal strength? help appreciated
Old 6th September 2007
  #3
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Cutoff's Avatar
 

TONELUX
Old 6th September 2007
  #4
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atticus's Avatar
Speck LiLo
Old 7th September 2007
  #5
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Sure, Tonelux would be sweet but with the same functionality all Tonelux, it would cost about 20.500$ so it's a big price difference... at least for me. i don't do this for a living, I'm just a musician that started buying recording gear 7 years ago because I wanted it as a writing/recording ideas tool, and then became hooked on good sound & all that. So I'd rather put the 7500$ into more good pres.

Is it possible to use just the tonelux meters with the rest of my suggested system? that would be nice! EDIT: but quite expensive for some metering....

Yeah, Speck LiLo is another way to go, but it will be more expensive in the end. On the other hand it is sort of dual path, so it might be worth it... but then again if I feel the need of summing more than 16 DAW outs simultaneously (which could happen in a few years) I can buy another neve 8816 or similar unit. I don't mind doing a mix in a few "passes" really, eg drums summed separately and recorded as a stereo track. I feel it makes me commit to the mix more, I have to decide how it should sound and then it stays that way; it's good. I'd rather spend some extra dollar on great conversion than more summing channels at this point.

Also, it's a good way to work for me since I do a lot of dub mixing - can't manage to do all the things I want to do simultaneously mixwise on a whole song really.

Anyways, thanks for your suggestions guys! Anyone else care to steer me off, or give some advice on the suggested system/changes etc?

/Magnus

EDIT: Could I make the metering myself, just mounting 16 VU:s in a box and let audio pass through? Or is it more complicated than that, using a lot of transistors and whatnot, i.e. hard for the average studio guy to make? 2900$ for 16 tonelux meters is a little too much for me...
Old 7th September 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Very ambitious... I think you have a neat idea that will end up being a whole lot more work than it is worth.

I'd say start with the ATB plus a lunchbox with 4 560's and maybe two 550a/b's. Then you have versatility with your eq, easy routing options and you won't waste a bunch of time and money on cabling like you will with that Frankenstein setup. It will look more professional and offer a greater degree of flexibility if you ever plan to bring outside engineers into your studio.

Last edited by mark714; 7th September 2007 at 12:37 AM.. Reason: sp.
Old 7th September 2007
  #7
I'd scrap the Auxpanders and the AMS-Neve gear and get a Speck Xtramix instead. It'll save you loads of money and rack space.

I'd like a rack of something like this taken from this thread:

console's, mixers, API 500 series format?
Attached Thumbnails
doing a modular mixer thing... think this would be work?-monitora_5105_f_gr.jpg  
Old 7th September 2007
  #8
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mark714, yes you have a point there... it makes sense to get the atb16 and some 500-series pres and eqs and call it a day. It's inline, it's easy and it will certainly be cheaper. However, I've played around a bit with one of these and the build quality at least on this one were so-so... the eq was good, the pre ok I guess - probably the same as the one I have in my twin-q.

OTOH, I could buy a few more 500-series pres and use these for the money I'm saving by not buying the 8816, faders and auxpanders. The price for the ATB16 here in Sweden is about 5900$ incl tax, compared to the around 7300$ incl tax I'd pay for the 8816, faders and 2xauxpanders. The Swedish 25% tax will go off these purchases later, since I have my own busiess. So that's maybe a pre and an eq more for my VPR racks...

But I don't know, I'm just not that appealed to the ATB any longer. When I first read here about it I was really thrilled, but after seeing the build quality (at least on the one I played with) I was kinda bummed. I didn't fancy the look of the unit much either, everyone here knows that looks are important too

Do you think that the ATB is up to par quality-wise in terms of sound and build? Hmm maybe it is... Tough decision!

TEMAS, the Xtramix would have been my first choice for the money if it weren't that I really long after faders under my fingertips and that I absolutely need to have separate aux send knobs so I can access all the knobs simultaneously at all times. As stated, I record, mix and produce a lot of dub and reggae... pretty impractical to have to depress 2 small switches to send a snare to the spring reverb, only to not have time to press the buttons again to catch the rimshot with a delay... Plus I need the faders to ride the reverb levels (sending back reverb into a new channel and "playing" it with the fader).

Anyways, I still think my proposed system is great... it's a bit like tonelux but with another versatility in pre & eq selection... ok ok the tonelux will look more like a "mixing console" and will probably sound better, but I really like the picture I have in my head of how it all will look in an Argosy type (but self-built) console! This is kinda like what pan60 was talking about in the linked thread above I'd say.


All the best, and thanks for your opinions!
/Magnus
Old 7th September 2007
  #9
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666666's Avatar
You might want to forget about the Auxpander. I was also going to get some Auxpanders for the same purpose as you, to expand aux sends, but I read a few reviews that indicated that these units were far below pro-audio standards, very noisy, etc. Sure, you'd only be using them for sends, but do you really want to send a lead vocal or acoustic guitar etc through a cheap noisy box, then to your main reveb or whatever? The noise would make it's way back into the final mix.

The good news is that I discovered another unit that will also allow you to expand aux sends on a mixer... more costly though, but extremely capable... and I assume a better audio path than the el-cheapo Auxpander:

The Allen & Heath Mix Wizard WZ3 12M... 16 inputs and TWELVE... yes, TWELVE AUX SENDS... very nicely configured... the mixer is fairly small and cheap too, considering. You can also link two for 32 inputs out to the 12 aux sends.

So... if you have a 16 or 32 channel board and need more aux sends, just get one or two of these Mix Wizard WZ3 12M mixers, send your direct outs from each channel into the individual inputs of the Mix Wizards, you should now have 12 extra aux sends per channel. (Note: I have not tried this yet first hand, but it seems that it'll work great per my research - but please look it over yourself before purchasing anything).

So, I think what I'd do....

Get a Speck LiLo (tons of inputs, nice big faders, plus other cool routing options.... and has 4 aux sends).... then get one or two WZ3 12M mixers to add 12 more aux sends to each channel of the LiLo, IF you even need that many aux sends.... you may not (gee, you'd have 16 aux sends at that point!). Then get several 500 series racks and fill them with whatever amount of eqs you feel you'd need... API, Speck, etc... you can easily stick the eqs into the inserts on the LiLo... etc, etc, etc.

Allen & Heath Mix Wizard WZ3 12M:

ALLEN & HEATH :: WORLD CLASS MIXERS

http://www.allen-heath.com/ahimages/...WZ312m_top.jpg

Has anyone ever used one of these Heath WZ3 12M units? Review?
Old 7th September 2007
  #10
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u b k's Avatar
 

hey magnus,

for whatever it's worth i support you nixing a piece of kit like the toft atb and going with a more hodge-podge complement of top notch pieces. yeah, it'll involve kludges. yeah, you'll have some limitations. imo kludges and workarounds are good for the soul, they force us to think creatively and in so doing we come at everything else a little left-of-center too.

but the bottom line for you, me, and a lot of others is zero compromise when it comes to the sound. i have 24 d/a's feeding a 12-channel sidecar and a 16-channel summing box. the sidecar has 1, count 'em, 1 aux send. i have a drum bus comp, a vocal eq->vocal comp, an instrument comp, a mix comp, and a studer. at any moment i may need to use that mix outboard to track to tape with. i am the KING of patching and 'creative' routing, so i have a sense of what you're in for.

i love it; i love the sounds i get, there's no way a $5000 do-it-all box could touch the tones i get coming into and out of this rig. so i say go for it, you've got a vision, you've got the budget, make the move and start bangin' out the songs.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 7th September 2007
  #11
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Hey Magnus, have you thought of getting a used mixer? I'm not sure what you could find in Sweden but it's probably worth looking into (I'm from Göteborg, btw, left years ago). I paid $1300 here for an old short-loaded 16 channel Auditronics 501 console. Sure, I've had to do some work on it such as recapping, upgrade opamps, replace lamps, but that was fairly easy to do and cheap, and now it's quite a performer. It's full of transformers, inductor eq etc., and it's dead quiet. For less than $2000.
Old 8th September 2007
  #12
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Wow, great response from you guys! got me thinking about this project more than ever. that's a good thing, it helps me "see" my system and iron out possible problems etc. Thanks!

666666, thank's so much for the heads-up on the auxpander! yeah I thought the price to be too low to be true... and thanks for the tip on the mixwizards! cool mixer, 16 ins and 12 sends... made for dub I'd say! but I think not up to par for main board, for me. Would surely work for aux duties though. Need to think this through a lot, and contact a few people to see if they could make me an auxpander-like box, but with better components. Shouldn't be too hard to make a 16 channel 8-way spitter with knobs for levels on the spits ey? I know at least one engineer here in Stockholm using a custom built 24 ch 4 sends aux box... Will contact him to see who built it for him. Will also look into funding a LiLo.

ubk, yes I do have a no compromise approach when it comes to sound. I started out with consumer gear, moved up to "prosumer" 3 years ago and now I feel that these pieces has to go... I like the 2ba-221 and kinda like the twin-q on certain things so they have a place in the new studio, paired together with better pieces of kit of course. I'm not looking so much for esoteric bling pieces but more for workhorses that will hold it's value and that will give me a palette of sounds I like for a long time forward. The room is only for me & a few projects I'm mixing, for recording/mixing my bands and some projects that I participate in as musician/engineer. I have no one else requesting any specific workflow (as in "need a traditional mixer" for example) or special name pieces. I'm the only one that will work there as engineer so... a special approach, various pieces of kit I love and a workflow I design myself feels better than something made up by how one conventionally do things.

pendejo yes I've been thinking of a nice vintage mixer too for a few years. My current place is too small to hold anything really though, but I'll be moving into an about 15 square meter control room and 20 square meter live room soon. Need to get the OK (in 2 weeks or so) by the "board of directors" in my house, then I'll start with the rooms building all the isolation etc. So this will be a home studio away from home, but in the basement of the same apartment house I live in. Still not big but better than the 12 sq. m home studio combined room I have in a suburb right now...

A nice vintage mixer is of course just that, nice, but again I feel that I really like a modular setup more. I'm used to the DAW world, and would like to be able to insert one of my "console" eqs before a reverb, then to a phaser and then back to another channel to play that signal out to a delay, that is routed into another eq etc etc. I am, as ubk, the king of creative routing, even though I do it mostly ITB at the moment. Since I have a limited budget, the best approach for getting both great sound and great flexibility is to have a modular mixing system where every component can be patched in every way... I want to make a hardware system that is about as flexible routingwise as in a DAW, essentially. That, no compromise in sound and good enough quality to last a long long time are my main goals.

I WILL look into buying a lot of the pieces second hand, however I price it out in new price so I can get surprised and happy later when I don't have to spend so much... hehe. I also like the modular setup with second hand units, because if one unit breaks down, I can still get by with all my other things. I like that. But of course, I could use a vintage mixer (or an atb) as summing/mix buss, and also benefit from the aux sends and eq in the board... but of course still have some outboard 500-series eqs, comps & pres. hmm... need to think things over again and again! maybe a used neotek elan II?! Then again I need the mixbuss to be really nice, so that's the question of the atb or any other mixer... is it as good as the 8816 mixbuss? is there a better mixbuss in some vintage board, for the money? etc etc etc.

/Magnus
Old 8th September 2007
  #13
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Hmm Hmm Hmm... now I'm reading some bad reports about unpleasant distorsion in the 8816. NOT good... damn. I chose it as summing solution hugely based on the fact that one can add faders. Need to listen too it for myself first of course, need to listen to most things before buying... But is there any other system (except a fullblown console) that one can add faders to? Or could one add a fader pack to any summing box system, is the faders essentially audio pass-through with the fader being just a variable attenuator?

hmm, need to talk to some guys about a fader system for summing boxes too...haha soon I will have designed a total mixing system, both sends and faders made to order for me... oh no might as well just put the money into a LiLo at this point... it might be cheaper.

well, thanks again for suggesting things and working out problems with me...
/Magnus
Old 8th September 2007
  #14
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...but then I read some other threads with people loving the sound and usefulness of the 8816. this seems to be a love/hate unit, really got to listen in depth at it now! if at all possible in my own environment, but the swedish dealers are not so happy in lending pieces for demo, if they at all have the high end piece you'd like to demo. really a problem when spending this kind of dollar, you might be able to demo if they have the item in stock, but they will i most cases not take something in if you don't pay upfront before...
Old 8th September 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyro View Post
... oh no might as well just put the money into a LiLo at this point... it might be cheaper....
Yes.

I have actually already been over the path that you are now on... for years... trying to arrive at the ultimate modular system. It's hard to get something good WITH faders. I inquired with assorted tech people about the idea of building a custom fader pack and then merely adding that in front of a given summing unit... the consensus was that building and adding a custom fader pack is more tricky than it would seem, and if not done "right", you'll have a mess... so I scratched that idea off the list, it is way to risky to pay fairly big bucks for some ultra custom "frankenstein" thing and then it might turn out to have serious problems once interfaced with everything else. It makes way more sense to just purchase a system that is complete... like a Speck LiLo. I have to admit, the LiLo is the only thing out there of its type... it is the ultimate design as far as I'm concerned... at least for people who already have a ton of outboard gear and just need good summing WITH FADERS... and don't want to pay for pres and eqs that they already have.

As for the Mix Wizard... I certainly wasn't suggesting using that as a main mixer, but using one or a linked pair of them ONLY to add extra aux sends to something like a LiLo. The Mix Wizard I described in the earlier post, to me, is just a glorified super fancy and better sounding "Auxpander"... a whopping 12 sends, and eq too... which can be helpful sometimes when you want to eq the sent signal only before it hits the effects unit, like pulling low end out of something before going into a big reverb, etc. The Mix Wizard gives you all this capability in a small package... I think the board is roughly 20" X 20" or so.

Side note... in my last "frankenstein" modular set up, I had used an old Soundcraft Ghost as an "auxpander"... fed the direct outs from my main summing mixer into the inputs of the Ghost, and then just used the Ghost aux sends... it worked out great, except the Ghost was just a little too big for me. To me, "modular" is, among other things, about having multiple SMALL units that can be transported easily. This is one of the big advantages of "modular" in my eyes... if set up right, you can have nearly all the bells and whistles, quality etc of a large console (that would take 6 people and a truck to move), but instead have it made up of several smaller units that you can carry yourself and spread out in the backseat and trunk of your sedan.

I have already used several "modular" set ups in different assorted rooms, some very small, etc... the beauty of modular is that you can physically configure it to fit in almost ANY situation... try doing that with one large console. Of course this may not be an issue for some, but I happen to put a lot of importance on it because I have had to move several times, may have to move again, plus I have done work at other locations for people, etc... and it's a wonderful thing to know that all your gear will fit in almost any space because it can be configured in almost any way... because it's modular.

Best of luck - please report back once you have completed your modular system... I'd like to know what you chose and how it's working out.
Old 8th September 2007
  #16
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyro View Post
But is there any other system (except a fullblown console) that one can add faders to?

tonelux; sounds amazing, but it ain't cheap.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 8th September 2007
  #17
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Tonelux

ya it is expensive but you can build out a system over time as budget allows and you are building on solid rock.
Old 8th September 2007
  #18
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I think at this point, I'l stick with the 8816+faders until I have listened to the unit properly. downloaded the vintageking shootout files, and I really like the punchy sound of the unit... good for my style of music, which is neosoul, hiphop (mostly acoustic kinda like the roots soundwise), reggae and dub. I like fat driven tones.

I'll buy this first, see how it works with the one send i get from the 8816 by connecting the fader pack, and then later add the mixwizard suggested by 666666. I will add it yes, I really need those sends, but I think it can wait a few months until I get some more cash...

But the mixwizard is a perfect sends board for me if it works the way I think, especially with those faders on it so I can drive delay feedbacks etc directly on that board by some creative routing. Nice, and not too expensive! plus, I can use some of the micpres for additional channels that aren't that important when recording my bands live... like some strangely placed drum mics that are there for "fun" or some percussion that just needs to be there, low in the mix and does not need to sound too fancy. also gives me some eq I can use in different ways, which is also supergreat. the more options, the better. absolute great value! this is what I'll be getting. also, it fits into a 19" rack which I want the total system to do... want to have access to the whole kit in front of my without reaching down, turning my back or anything. All in an Argosy 70-V3R style console. Nice, and I'll maybe have the cash for the mixwizard in my budget to boot, since I scrapped a few 500-series pres on my list in favor of a sytek unit with the 3&4 channel burr-brown option. Maybe not as esoteric, but surely a nice box'o'pres too. But of course, when I get the money my gearslutism will make me buy some mono gamas and P-1s as well

many thanks for your help, I think I have my dream system ready in my mind know. I'll start with the process of trying to demo the pieces once I have finished my new room, which might take a few months... will let you know what I think of the system when it's assembled and finished! Oh that sweet day...

IF anyone else still want's to suggest something that might work better or be cheaper for comparable quality, feel free to write...

/Magnus
Old 8th September 2007
  #19
I really think the Lilo would be perfect for you. By the time you've bought the 8816, faders and a MixWiz, surely thats more money than a Lilo?

I would buy a Lilo right now if it could be rack mounted without faders. Maybe if Vince is listening he'll consider making his Lilo channel strips available in more diverse formats? Its such a great design with the dual input, aux and busses. If you could get 12 or 14 channels and a master section in a 5U or 6U 19" rack, with maybe a stereo channel strip option and an optional fader section, it would be killer stike

Anyway, good luck with whatever you choose. I'm sure you'll be happy with the 8816 solution, I just don't think there's enough routing options.

Old 8th September 2007
  #20
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tyro's Avatar
 

yes I agree, it would be killer if Speck would do the LiLo in different building blocks, rackmountable. And yes, I might get by with 4 auxes... but I don't think I will! The price for 8816+faders and the mixwizard is about the same, and when I add shipping on the LiLo it will be more expensive. Noone has it here as I know of, and surely the dealer, if any here, who is willing to take one in for me is going to add some serious markup for shipment & general "inconveniece" for doing this for me - that is how nearly all dealers are in Sweden I'm sad to say. Golden Age might be better, but they don't have Speck.

the 8816 and the mixwizard however, I can get from thomann with a fixed freight rate of 22$ to Stockholm, no matter the package wheight! And I must say that I'd like the added benefits on the mixwizard, as in eq before sends, a whole lot more sends, faders that I can use to do things with my FX... totally approriate. Might even be I go with the mixwizard and 8816, and no 8804 faders for the 8816! After all, the big reason for me to have faders are to do things with effects. levels I can set with knobs, that's alright by me... even though I'd like faders there to of course, but it's more of a budget matter than an absolute must now when I have that functionality for FX in the mixwizard. A big thumbsup to 666666 for digging that one up!

/Magnus
Old 8th September 2007
  #21
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I'm doing the modular mixer thing. Just got an Auxpander. Am hopeful. It is very inexpensive. I haven't put it through any paces, but since I'm using it to balance lots of creative effects (read: distortion) I don't think I'm going to need to worry too much.
Old 9th September 2007
  #22
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doktorfuture, hey that's cool. please, if you have any nice outboard reverb & such, would you try the auxpander with them and see if there is degradation in sound/noise coming from the unit? no hurry, would just be cool to hear from someone with real world experience from the unit, using it a bit like I would. Should the unit work reliably and with no audible artifacts, I will consider it again due to budget reasons. But really, I did found it hard to believe the unit to be good because of the ultra-low price... I've seen it for about 150$, probably lower than a behringer ripoff would be! Suspicious.
Old 10th September 2007
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot View Post
What about the Speck Xtramix?
For me?

Well, on paper its definately the most logical solution. But I much prefer the ergonomics, signal flow design and lay-out of the Lilo and also the X-Rack and Tonelux systems. One of the main things I'm trying to acheive from the next mixing system I choose is a really intuitive working environment. I'm sure I'd get used to the Xtramix and I certainly haven't ruled it out, but I reckon I might find it a bit cramped and confusing.

The great thing about building a modular mixer is that you can piece things together as and when you need or can afford them and at the moment I don't actually need all the features of the Xtramix. Therefore, I'm actually starting to lean towards a Tonelux system more than anything else; maybe a 16x8x2 (or 12x8x2) configuration to start with, which I guess would require 8 TR8 and 8 TR8P bus modules, 12 MX2 dual input modules, and 1 SM2 summing module.

But, if the X-Rack had a bus routing module, I'd probably choose that route, because of the total recall.
Old 10th September 2007
  #24
DRC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEMAS View Post
I'd scrap the Auxpanders and the AMS-Neve gear and get a Speck Xtramix instead. It'll save you loads of money and rack space.

I'd like a rack of something like this taken from this thread:

console's, mixers, API 500 series format?

Who made that module? Is it discrete? Isn't the problem with modular line mixer/summing boxes the lack of subgroups? I think that thing is the cats ass. It's kind of remincent of the ADT stuff the way the pan knob looks.
Attached Thumbnails
doing a modular mixer thing... think this would be work?-monitora_5105_f_gr.jpg  
Old 10th September 2007
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC View Post
Who made that module? Is it discrete?
Its a Monitora 5105. Possibly taken from a Neumann console. I doubt its discrete at its list price of 69 euros, but I really know very little about its design, so I could be wrong. I did get some info from www.vintagetools.de who said they can fit 10 of these in a 5U rack. You would also need a Monitora aux master module and summing amps for the buses and faders.
Old 12th September 2007
  #26
qua
Gear Head
 

Hi,
I thought I would chime in as i've been in the same purchasing dilemma for the past 2-3 months. I've tried a number of things and have finally come to a decision.
I've ended up going for the Toft ATB 24 purely based on sound. Don't let it's specs and price fool you. I did comparisons with the 8816 and I must say ... the Toft just had a little more definition and detail. It did feel as coloured as the Neve but in a different way. Not so dark.. a little less muddy. I was sold on the 8816 for at least a month and then at the last minute I tried the ATB. I'm glad I did. The other runner was the Chandler mini rack mixer. It was nice.. very nice but overall I found the Toft to be a little more flexible and the eqs are actually really good (as in... better than a lot of EQ's worth about 20% of the whole unit?!). I'm surprised you think the build quality is bad. I think it is excellent. I will mainly use the ATB 24 as a summing mixer and semi-patch bay but from just a quick play the pre's sound good, although not as good as what I already own. I'm stoked. The very sad part about this... is that if the Toft ATB was more expensive, I probably would have considered it earlier on.
I to this day have never bought anything I haven't heard first. That's why I didnt go for the Tonelux setup. It sounds appealing but if there is no way to hear it.. I'm not interested.
peace!

cornel
Old 13th September 2007
  #27
Gear Nut
 
tyro's Avatar
 

Thanks cornel for letting me know. the ATB unit I tried was a preproduction unit I think, as it was at a dealer some time ago. I will give the ATB another chance, as I did like the eq quite a bit on the unit and it will give me sends etc. I might find it to be too nice to resist at the pricepoint, we'll see!

But first, I must spend serious money on my new room, that comes before any gear purchases (but it would be much more fun to spend the dough on some slutty pres than on building materials...). Anyway, whatever I decide (8816 or ATB or maybe other unit) it will take some time. I believe in "**** in - **** out" so my rooms, a few better mics, better conversion and some new pres are priority. Still like a more modular setup though... aaaahh tough decisions, really hard. And we'll see what I have left when the rooms are finished too... :( hoping for a lottery ticket here hehehe.

Think I'll try the summing in logic pro 8 before buying any external summing device. Will most definately not sound as good as summing through 8816 or ATB, but... maybe alright 'til I can afford better? Let's hope so.
Old 13th September 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
 
vince @ speck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyro View Post
yes I agree, it would be killer if Speck would do the LiLo in different building blocks, rackmountable. And yes, I might get by with 4 auxes... but I don't think I will! The price for 8816+faders and the mixwizard is about the same, and when I add shipping on the LiLo it will be more expensive. Noone has it here as I know of, and surely the dealer, if any here, who is willing to take one in for me is going to add some serious markup for shipment & general "inconveniece" for doing this for me - that is how nearly all dealers are in Sweden I'm sad to say. Golden Age might be better, but they don't have Speck.

the 8816 and the mixwizard however, I can get from thomann with a fixed freight rate of 22$ to Stockholm, no matter the package wheight! And I must say that I'd like the added benefits on the mixwizard, as in eq before sends, a whole lot more sends, faders that I can use to do things with my FX... totally approriate. Might even be I go with the mixwizard and 8816, and no 8804 faders for the 8816! After all, the big reason for me to have faders are to do things with effects. levels can set with knobs, that's alright by me... even though I'd like faders there to of course, but it's more of a budget matter than an absolute must now when I have that functionality for FX in the mixwizard. A big thumbsup to 666666 for digging that one up!

/Magnus
Magnus,

I appears that you have made up your mind. But if you would like see the LiLo, you can contact our dealer in Stockholm, Sweden.

Zima Production

Robert Zima has a 24 channel LiLo.
Old 13th September 2007
  #29
Gear Nut
 
tyro's Avatar
 

hey vince, thanks for that! I just saw yesterday that indeed there is a dealer for Speck in Sweden, so yeah I'll check it out when done with the rooms. never hurts to try different things out
/magnus
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