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Neve 1084 Air Studios Edition Other Modular Audio Processors
Old 5th September 2007
  #1
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Neve 1084 Air Studios Edition

I was looking at the Funky Junky site the other day and noticed that the Neve 1084 reissue is available as "standard" or "Air Studios" edition. Anyone know what the differrences are and or had experience using Air Studios 1084? I'm just curious. Could this be a new as yet not released until AES NY?
Here's the link for those that are interested: Neve - 1084
Old 5th September 2007
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGA View Post
I was looking at the Funky Junky site the other day and noticed that the Neve 1084 reissue is available as "standard" or "Air Studios" edition. Anyone know what the differrences are and or had experience using Air Studios 1084? I'm just curious. Could this be a new as yet not released until AES NY?
Here's the link for those that are interested: Neve - 1084
Hi

I didn't see any reference to AIR studios in the link you provided... only Whitney Studios.

AIR bought a lot of custom consoles off Neve... at least seven that I can recall.

I don't recall custom 1084's but it was 30+ years ago and the memory has lapses!

Old 5th September 2007
  #3
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Hi Geoff,

Thansk for the reply. Its got it listed under features on the link as either a Standard or Air Module of which it is a cut and paste of the AMS-Neve site. My thoughts were exactly what you stated that Air would have had custom modules made hence my curiosity about this option. Perhasp its a typo on AMS-Neve's part?
Try this link second dot point down:AMS Neve Ltd.

Regards.
Old 5th September 2007
  #4
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Clarification

I have not tried the "Air" version but...

When they opened the Lyndhurst Hall, AIR ordered from AMS/Neve modules that incorporated the modifications made to the desks originally made for AIR Montserrat, etc.
You can order an 88r with the AIR 1084 loaded. I believe that they can be controlled remotely from the desk. Check out www.airstudios.com for more info.
Old 5th September 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andsonic View Post
I have not tried the "Air" version but...

When they opened the Lyndhurst Hall, AIR ordered from AMS/Neve modules that incorporated the modifications made to the desks originally made for AIR Montserrat, etc.
You can order an 88r with the AIR 1084 loaded. I believe that they can be controlled remotely from the desk. Check out www.airstudios.com for more info.
Hi

The AIR Monserrat consoles were bi-polar supply, 5534 IC based and nothing to do with 1084's. The remote control mic pre was a 31106.

The 1073/1084 (?) consoles predated it by about 6 years.

AIR Oxford Street (above Marks and Spencers I recall on a visit there) and later Lyndhurst had the second Montserrat console that Rupert Neve provided a Focusrite sidecar for. This predates the 88R by about two decades.

AIR Studios: Studio 1

The 88R is fitted with digitally controlled mic pres similar to those used on the Montserrat consoles (but uses a modern digital control system rather than phantoming dc from the 31106 to the remote 31292 (?) mic pre that stepped through FET's in the pre-amp feedback path).... but all this has zilch, nada, zero, etc., to do with the 1084 module which isn't used in the 88R or the Montserrat consoles... unless someone can show me otherwise!

AIR Studios: Lyndhurst Hall

Old 5th September 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

I didn't see any reference to AIR studios in the link you provided... only Whitney Studios.

AIR bought a lot of custom consoles off Neve... at least seven that I can recall.

I don't recall custom 1084's but it was 30+ years ago and the memory has lapses!

"Air" Neve @ Warehouse Studios, Vancouver Canada....with the man himself

Neve Console History
Old 5th September 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Hombre View Post
"Air" Neve @ Warehouse Studios, Vancouver Canada....with the man himself

Neve Console History
Hi

Yes, I know the history of the AIR Monserrat consoles... I was curious what the connection to 1084's was. There are none, I believe, in any of these consoles.

If the photo attaches properly, this is an early AIR console, all of which had the 24T meters grouped to the right and 2254 limiter compressors grouped to the left. An easy way of spotting them! Note that is uses 1073's!

Note also the HH Electronic TPA power amps and the Dolby Noise reduction units in the rack to the right!

Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1084 Air Studios Edition-airoxfordst.jpg  
Old 5th September 2007
  #8
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Hi

This is A29... the first AIR console...

You can see the "family" resemblence!

Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1084 Air Studios Edition-air-20a29-a3896.jpg  
Old 6th September 2007
  #9
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MGA's Avatar
 

I'm beginning to wonder if this is a new twist to an established design. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.
Old 6th September 2007
  #10
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Hi

It would be nice if someone can post from Neve explaining what the "AIR mod" to the 1084 is....

I genuinely have never heard of it and was around when most of the AIR consoles were made...

Old 6th September 2007
  #11
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Hi Geoff,

I don't think there is a 1084 "Air" version.

However there is a 1081R Remote Mic Preamp Rack that
can be fitted with 1081 or "Air" mic amps.

I also thought the 1073 pre could be fitted to this rack too??

AMS Neve Ltd.
Old 6th September 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbrecording View Post
Hi Geoff,

I don't think there is a 1084 "Air" version.

However there is a 1081R Remote Mic Preamp Rack that
can be fitted with 1081 or "Air" mic amps.

I also thought the 1073 pre could be fitted to this rack too??

AMS Neve Ltd.
Hi

There seems to be a little confusion with re-issue Neve type numbers because, in the case of the 1073 and 1081, the DPD and 88R remote controlled 1081 are mic pres only without the EQ. They also, as you mention, do the AIR 1294 remote mic pre.

The only difference between a 1073 and a 1084 is the EQ.

I'm not sure that they do a remote control version of the 1073.

And getting back to the title of the thread, I still have no clue what an AIR version 1084 is but it's mentioned on the Neve site.

Old 6th September 2007
  #13
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Hi

Well, would you believe it?

I've just checked the links at the top of this thread and the mention of AIR modded 1084's has vanished from the Neve site.

All the AIR consoles, previous to the Monserrat, had 1073's as far as my fuzzy brain can recall!

Old 6th September 2007
  #14
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nbrecording's Avatar
Its probably just a typing error or someone confused between the 1081 and 1084......
Old 6th September 2007
  #15
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Hi

Quote:-

• Classic Neve transformer mic preamplifier with wide range of equaliser settings
Choice of "Standard" or "Air Studio" preamp modules
• 3 switchable EQ bands
• Hand crafted and tested precisely to original 1970 design
• HP and LP filters with High Q setting
• Transformer-balanced and earth free inputs and outputs
• Output: Maximum output >+26dBu into 600 ohms. Output impedance is 75 ohms @1kHz.
• Distortion: Not more than 0.07% from 50Hz to 10kHz at +20dBu output
• Freq. Response: +/-0.5dB 20Hz to 20kHz, -3dB at 40kHz. EQ Out.
• Noise: Not more than -83dBu at all Line gain settings EQ In/Out

Either it's back or I didn't see it heh

Which gets me back to wishing I knew what the difference was! Gold label EQ point differences? I really don't recall it unless it was modified post delivery...

Old 16th December 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Quote:-

• Classic Neve transformer mic preamplifier with wide range of equaliser settings
Choice of "Standard" or "Air Studio" preamp modules
• 3 switchable EQ bands
• Hand crafted and tested precisely to original 1970 design
• HP and LP filters with High Q setting
• Transformer-balanced and earth free inputs and outputs
• Output: Maximum output >+26dBu into 600 ohms. Output impedance is 75 ohms @1kHz.
• Distortion: Not more than 0.07% from 50Hz to 10kHz at +20dBu output
• Freq. Response: +/-0.5dB 20Hz to 20kHz, -3dB at 40kHz. EQ Out.
• Noise: Not more than -83dBu at all Line gain settings EQ In/Out

Either it's back or I didn't see it heh

Which gets me back to wishing I knew what the difference was! Gold label EQ point differences? I really don't recall it unless it was modified post delivery...

I was checking the schematics on this devices. First, it does not have any output transformer. Im not sure about what the real 8078 console have but I guess that is have output transformer in the same way as the ISA110 had.
Old 16th December 2008
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
I was checking the schematics on this devices. First, it does not have any output transformer. Im not sure about what the real 8078 console have but I guess that is have output transformer in the same way as the ISA110 had.
Hi

Which devices do you refer to? Original Neve modules or re-issues?

The 1084, subject of this thread, would not work without an output transformer.

Old 16th December 2008
  #18
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It's the confusing new Neve marketing with those Police syncronicity colors in the mix magazine ads advertising 1081 pre's that where not actually in use at Air Monserrat."Neve was there".It goes to show you that an IC console can sound ok...if the Police are in the studio....and you mix it on the E series SSL at Le-studio canada.RIP.
Old 16th December 2008
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Which devices do you refer to? Original Neve modules or re-issues?

The 1084, subject of this thread, would not work without an output transformer.

The remote preamps that neve sale as "air" in a rack, is the specs you wrote for something else?
Old 16th December 2008
  #20
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
The remote preamps that neve sale as "air" in a rack, is the specs you wrote for something else?
Hi

I think we will be talking at cross purposes forever if we can't clear up the module numbers. The remote controlled rack is called 1081R, NOT 1084 which I thought this thread was all about.

I have no idea why AMS-Neve chose the module numbers they do, especially when the 1081 is generally considered a 12" high module with 4 band EQ.

I've not seen inside the 1081R rack but I suspect that there may be a lot of IC's in there.

Old 16th December 2008
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

I think we will be talking at cross purposes forever if we can't clear up the module numbers. The remote controlled rack is called 1081R, NOT 1084 which I thought this thread was all about.

I have no idea why AMS-Neve chose the module numbers they do, especially when the 1081 is generally considered a 12" high module with 4 band EQ.

I've not seen inside the 1081R rack but I suspect that there may be a lot of IC's in there.

Seems to a bit confusing. Is there some other "Monserrat AIR" preamp than the original custom 8078 or the 1081R module with two different preamp options. I assume that they are the same modules as for the 88RS.
The "Monserrat AIR" is using two ne5534 and one drv135 (BurrBrown)
and the 1081 using one BA338 and one drv135. So ignore that they are in remote case or not.
Old 16th December 2008
  #22
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Seems to a bit confusing. Is there some other "Monserrat AIR" preamp than the original custom 8078 or the 1081R module with two different preamp options. I assume that they are the same modules as for the 88RS.
The "Monserrat AIR" is using two ne5534 and one drv135 (BurrBrown)
and the 1081 using one BA338 and one drv135. So ignore that they are in remote case or not.
Hi

The AIR consoles 31106 used 5534 IC's with a beefed up output (like the B640) to drive the output transformer. The whole point of the AIR consoles is that they used custom designed toroidal transformers for both the input and output transformers. No Burr Brown IC's and definitely big transformers in and out.

The 1081 used a 10468 on the input, B338 following it, and a B340 driving a chunky LO2567 output transformer.

I am really not sure how closely these remote control units followed the original design specs.

Here's the spec of a Burr Brown output stage

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv134.pdf

Old 16th December 2008
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

The AIR consoles used 5534 IC's with a beefed up output (like the B640) to drive the output transformer. The whole point of the AIR consoles is that they used custom designed toroidal transformers for both the input and output transformers. No Burr Brown IC's and definitely big transformers in and out.

The 1081 used a 10468 on the input, B338 following it, and a B340 driving a chunky LO2567 output transformer.

I am really not sure how closely these remote control units followed the original design specs.

Here's the spec of a Burr Brown output stage

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv134.pdf

What's a B640? Im trying to figure out what the 31106 really is. In some old
posts says is very similar to 31105 and that is a 1081, not using a 5534. Not close to the "AIR Monserrat". There seems to be very mush semilarites ISA110 and the 31106 The input schamatics is the same, but I guess the transformer have a major role so we can say that they are identical. But what about the output. ISA110 is a dubble feedback circuit, is the 31106 similar?
Old 16th December 2008
  #24
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
What's a B640? Im trying to figure out what the 31106 really is. In some old
posts says is very similar to 31105 and that is a 1081, not using a 5534. Not close to the "AIR Monserrat". There seems to be very mush semilarites ISA110 and the 31106 The input schamatics is the same, but I guess the transformer have a major role so we can say that they are identical. But what about the output. ISA110 is a dubble feedback circuit, is the 31106 similar?
Hi

A B640 is a 5534 driving a BC441 and BC461 output device to buffer the 5534 from the low impedance (70 ohms) of the step up output transformer. It replaced the B440 all discrete amplifier.

The 31106 was only used on the three AIR Monseratt style consoles and bears no resemblence to any other Neve module. It used a remote mounted mic pre controlled by dc voltages ramped up by the gain switch and phantomed down the interconnecting cable. It is not similar to a 31105, except at long distance by someone with poor eyesight.

It uses completely different internal circuitry and the front panel will reveal completely different frequency choices.

All the circuit diagrams for the AIR consoles were hand drawn by Geoff Watts, a wonderfully talented engineer with an infectious laugh... may he rest in peace.

I have no knowledge re Focusrite modules...

Attached Thumbnails
Neve 1084 Air Studios Edition-geoffwatts.jpg  
Old 16th December 2008
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

A B640 is a 5534 driving a BC441 and BC461 output device to buffer the 5534 from the low impedance (70 ohms) of the step up output transformer. It replaced the B440 all discrete amplifier.

The 31106 was only used on the three AIR Monseratt style consoles and bears no resemblence to any other Neve module. It used a remote mounted mic pre controlled by dc voltages ramped up by the gain switch and phantomed down the interconnecting cable. It is not similar to a 31105, except at long distance by someone with poor eyesight.

It uses completely different internal circuitry and the front panel will reveal completely different frequency choices.

All the circuit diagrams for the AIR consoles were hand drawn by Geoff Watts, a wonderfully talented engineer with an infectious laugh... may he rest in peace.

I have no knowledge re Focusrite modules...

But the output stage, is it using dubble feedback?
Old 16th December 2008
  #26
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Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
But the output stage, is it using dubble feedback?
Hi

Yes, there's the regular feedback from the output of the driver and tertiary feedback from a 1:1 winding on the output toroidal transformer.

Much the same as the wiring on the regular Marinair TO129 transformer used in 31105, 33114, 33415, etc.

Old 17th December 2008
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Yes, there's the regular feedback from the output of the driver and tertiary feedback from a 1:1 winding on the output toroidal transformer.

Much the same as the wiring on the regular Marinair TO129 transformer used in 31105, 33114, 33415, etc.

Many many thanks!
Is there any schematics on this output stage?
Old 17th December 2008
  #28
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dubrichie's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

Yes, I know the history of the AIR Monserrat consoles... I was curious what the connection to 1084's was. There are none, I believe, in any of these consoles.

If the photo attaches properly, this is an early AIR console, all of which had the 24T meters grouped to the right and 2254 limiter compressors grouped to the left. An easy way of spotting them! Note that is uses 1073's!

Note also the HH Electronic TPA power amps and the Dolby Noise reduction units in the rack to the right!

a little OT, but i just love the extra talkback mic in the producers desk to the left, beside the phone and the ashtray!
Old 13th March 2011
  #29
Gear Addict
 

i love neve 1084s
Old 13th March 2011
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

The AIR consoles 31106 used 5534 IC's with a beefed up output (like the B640) to drive the output transformer. The whole point of the AIR consoles is that they used custom designed toroidal transformers for both the input and output transformers. No Burr Brown IC's and definitely big transformers in and out.

The 1081 used a 10468 on the input, B338 following it, and a B340 driving a chunky LO2567 output transformer.

I am really not sure how closely these remote control units followed the original design specs.

Here's the spec of a Burr Brown output stage

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv134.pdf

Users have 2 other choices for that part, the original SSM 2142 and the improved that 1646. The that part avoids a bit of THD those older parts generate.
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