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Focal Twin6 BE - Buying tomorrow... your last chance to comment! Studio Monitors
Old 14th September 2007
  #61
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My twin6's are arriving today. Very excited.


Evan

Old 14th September 2007
  #62
Reg
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Reg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulusound View Post
My twin6's are arriving today. Very excited.


Evan

I think you will like what you hear and see.
Old 15th September 2007
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
I think you will like what you hear and see.
Actually, unboxing the Focals, one of them has a large part loose inside, maybe part of the amp? Was looking forward to using them over the weekend, now I have to deal with an exchange.

Old 15th September 2007
  #64
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I got a pair in today. So far I'm impressed. I immediately heard some phase issues on some drum tracks that I didnt hear on my NS10's.

I'm going to do a quick mix on them tonight and see how it translates.

I know the speakers need to some time to break in.. how different do they sound once they've been used for a couple weeks?
Old 15th September 2007
  #65
Reg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zulusound View Post
Actually, unboxing the Focals, one of them has a large part loose inside, maybe part of the amp? Was looking forward to using them over the weekend, now I have to deal with an exchange.

Now that really sucks, just wandering if the box got a good bump from the great care we all know courier service people for. These courier people don't care at all that we paid good money for these items . The people who are at the top of these courier services should be fired for such a lousy job at insuring proper parcel care in handling. Yes that means you, UPS and FEDX . On there web site they put up a front about how concern they are about the service they provide. Them and there workers have nothing to be proud about and should bow there head in shame for such lousy workmenship. There you go, that felt good.
Old 15th September 2007
  #66
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Measurements for Focal home-audio speaker with Beryllium tweeter:

Stereophile: Focal Electra 1037 Be loudspeaker

Note level of hash and obvious resonances in tweeter-region. But hey! Gearslutzers say that tweeter is damn-near perfect!
Old 15th September 2007
  #67
Gear Maniac
 

To be fair, measurements on another Focal speaker suggest much better behaviour:
Stereophile: Focal Electra 1007 Be loudspeaker

Even so, there is a clear rise in frequencies from 6-10 kHz and an abrupt drop above with accompanying resonance. Could the apparent extra detail so often enthused over on this Forum be a simple matter of two-three extra decibels in the HF region? Focal's pro site contains no FR curves so I don't know whether they've compensated in their pro gear.
Old 15th September 2007
  #68
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Could the apparent extra detail so often enthused over on this Forum be a simple matter of two-three extra decibels in the HF region?

no; i've worked on the twins with the hi trim attenuating the tweets by at least 2db and, while the sound was different, the performance was not. i ended up restoring the control to flat because it allows me to mix at crazy quiet volumes.

detail is not level, detail is quantity and quality of information. any two sets of speakers, played side by side at equal volumes, will reveal different amounts and types of data. when it comes to tools, i will trust empirical results over abstracted implications any day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
But hey! Gearslutzers say that tweeter is damn-near perfect!

what does 'perfect' mean in this context? who actually said that anyway?

for pure listening enjoyment, i'd never choose a speaker that sounds like the twins, but the same is true of almost any monitor i've used that excels at building mixes. what i can say is that the tweeter in the twins is an incredibly effective tool, it lets me spotlight the high end at least as well as my other favorite box, the s3a. i have zero translation issues at any frequency, highs included.

is that 'perfect'? i still don't know what that means, and i couldn't care less. whatever distortions or spec-baseds issues it might have on bench tests don't seem to affect its ability to deliver on its promises. at the end of the day, i'm not sure what else matters.


gregoire
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ubk
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Old 15th September 2007
  #69
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stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Measurements for Focal home-audio speaker with Beryllium tweeter:

Stereophile: Focal Electra 1037 Be loudspeaker

Note level of hash and obvious resonances in tweeter-region. But hey! Gearslutzers say that tweeter is damn-near perfect!
Dude what the hell are you one about?
You're comparing a home Hi-Fi unit with a product from Focal's Professional Division.
Old 15th September 2007
  #70
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YEah... cant compare... even if it's the same tweeter... the sound will be totally different: different amp, electronics, whires, case etc... tutt
Old 15th September 2007
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miqer View Post
YEah... cant compare... even if it's the same tweeter... the sound will be totally different: different amp, electronics, whires, case etc... tutt
Exactly!

Plus I wouldn't trust anything that comes from Hi-Fi folks. Boy those guys will believe anything, talk about the tail of the "Kings New Clothes"

I once read a hi-fi mag that was "reviewing speaker stands"

The reviews went something like this:

Brand X - Sweet treble, solid bass but slightly ******** mids
Brand Z - very forward mids, tight bass and urgent highs

I mean, I know a good stand will affect bass performance, but because "someone had told them you can" these guys actually reckon they can hear the difference in mid-range and treble performance between stands. These dudes must have better ears than some of the top guys on GS!

Hi-Fi boffins are funny heh
Old 16th September 2007
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
no; i've worked on the twins with the hi trim attenuating the tweets by at least 2db and, while the sound was different, the performance was not. i ended up restoring the control to flat because it allows me to mix at crazy quiet volumes.

detail is not level, detail is quantity and quality of information. any two sets of speakers, played side by side at equal volumes, will reveal different amounts and types of data. when it comes to tools, i will trust empirical results over abstracted implications any day.
Really? Perception of detail is wholly unrelated to level? While the two are not synonomous there is some correlation. Which is why you use your faders BTW.....

Anyway my empirical observation (which the measurements tend to confirm) is that every Focal inverted tweeter I've heard, both beryllium and titanium (haven't hear the Kevlar), sound hyped with a tendency to screech as well as being "blunted" in the highest frequencies. But then I may be imagining it.

Sorry if my opinion bothers you but I think a bit of stolid nay-saying can do wonders in the midst of the chorus of hosannas. It might cause people to actually judge for themselves. But I won't hold my breath......
Old 16th September 2007
  #73
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studjo's Avatar
 

Mr Keyser did you ever mix one single song on a Focal (professional) speaker???
And if you're so handy with graphs and measurements: why not post the graphs of the speakers discussed (not that I care that much for graphs mind you)


Jo
Old 16th September 2007
  #74
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stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
I've heard, both beryllium and titanium (haven't hear the Kevlar), sound hyped with a tendency to screech as well as being "blunted" in the highest frequencies. But then I may be imagining it.
Yes you are imagining it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post

Sorry if my opinion bothers you ......
... and not it doesn't heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by studjo View Post
Mr Keyser did you ever mix one single song on a Focal (professional) speaker???
And if you're so handy with graphs and measurements: why not post the graphs of the speakers discussed (not that I care that much for graphs mind you)


Jo
I agree with stujo here
Old 16th September 2007
  #75
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The more time I spend on the twins the more I like them. I'm still going to keep my NS10's around for another reference, but I could be totally happy with just the twins.

I'm not into half the stuff on the gearslut hype list, but the focals are the real deal.

I dont understand why people complain about the sound of a monitor. They're tools meant for making mixes to be heard outside of the studio. The only way to test them is to do a quick mix and see how it translates. If they translate, they are good.
Old 16th September 2007
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post
I dont understand why people complain about the sound of a monitor. They're tools meant for making mixes to be heard outside of the studio. The only way to test them is to do a quick mix and see how it translates. If they translate, they are good.
I agree, and if they "sound hyped with a tendency to screech as well as being "blunted" in the highest frequencies" maybe you should question your recordings or mix!
Old 17th September 2007
  #77
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Really? Perception of detail is wholly unrelated to level? While the two are not synonomous there is some correlation. Which is why you use your faders BTW.....

i never said perception of detail is wholly unrelated to level, i said 'detail is not level.' if you turn up a detailed sound, you'll probably hear more of the details. but simply increasing the level on a signal does not increase its detail, which was my response to your question "Could the apparent extra detail so often enthused over on this Forum be a simple matter of two-three extra decibels in the HF region?".

iow, 'louder' does not equal 'more precise.' it's just louder. if it were otherwise, you'd simply need to stick an eq on a set of mackies and create all the hf detail you wanted by spiking the top.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Sorry if my opinion bothers you but I think a bit of stolid nay-saying can do wonders in the midst of the chorus of hosannas. It might cause people to actually judge for themselves. But I won't hold my breath......

nothing about your opinion bothers me in the least. focals most definitely have a sound, and i'd be shocked if there weren't a sizable number of people who won't like that sound the instant it hits their ears. i'm also not aware of anybody here suggesting that people not judge for themselves.

i for one appreciate your voice of dissent, because you seem to speak to a larger point: these things are not the be-all end-all of monitors, they are not the salvation of humanity. they're just a tool that happens to be working really well for a lot of people; the same is true for a slew of other monitors, and they tend to have their fans and detractors as well.

i think what sets you apart from the typical "i don't like 'em" naysayer is that you come across as attempting to prove that focals can't possibly sound good to anyone, and that the good aspects that we hear in them are merely 'apparent' and can be explained away as so much hype, and you try to prove all of this using graphs and charts. the result is that you effectively dismiss the experience of other people using numbers and figures, people hear 'you're wrong and i'm right and this data proves it'. that may not be your intention, but it's how you come across, and i believe it's why you get the timbre of response that you tend to.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 17th September 2007
  #78
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zulusound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg View Post
Now that really sucks, just wandering if the box got a good bump from the great care we all know courier service people for. These courier people don't care at all that we paid good money for these items . The people who are at the top of these courier services should be fired for such a lousy job at insuring proper parcel care in handling. Yes that means you, UPS and FEDX . On there web site they put up a front about how concern they are about the service they provide. Them and there workers have nothing to be proud about and should bow there head in shame for such lousy workmenship. There you go, that felt good.

Focal is swapping me out with a new Twin6, they said it was the first time they had ever heard of a magnet breaking loose from a driver! UPS ahhhhggggghhhdfegad
Till then, I'm mixing in mono.
Old 17th September 2007
  #79
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stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulusound View Post
Till then, I'm mixing in mono.
lol heh
Old 17th September 2007
  #80
Gear Addict
 
Old Cane's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetgn View Post
Exactly!

Plus I wouldn't trust anything that comes from Hi-Fi folks. Boy those guys will believe anything, talk about the tail of the "Kings New Clothes"

I once read a hi-fi mag that was "reviewing speaker stands"

The reviews went something like this:

Brand X - Sweet treble, solid bass but slightly ******** mids
Brand Z - very forward mids, tight bass and urgent highs

I mean, I know a good stand will affect bass performance, but because "someone had told them you can" these guys actually reckon they can hear the difference in mid-range and treble performance between stands. These dudes must have better ears than some of the top guys on GS!

Hi-Fi boffins are funny heh
If you really can't tell a difference then I'd not say that around clients. I'm nearly deaf and I can hear vast differences in stands, placements and interconnects (we used to call them RCA patch cables until they started costing hundreds of dollars). Yes, I'm one of those psycho audiophile guys but the reason I am is because I started recording in some decent studios when I was 14. I could tell what room I was in and which of the 4 guys was mixing that I worked with a lot blindfolded. If i didn't love music I wouldn't worry about how I played it back. And you guys are hung up on a preamp or mic asking what's best and making fun of another set of guys hung up on their gear? Come on, we're all slutz. Can't we all just get along?
Old 17th September 2007
  #81
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stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Cane View Post
Come on, we're all slutz. Can't we all just get along?
Agreed

... but you can really hear the difference in treble response between speaker stand? Not to doubt your aural integrity but I would be shocked to see that in a blind test. Stranger things have happen though, that horse becoming Pope for one!
Old 18th September 2007
  #82
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bright monitors in general

Perhaps this is not the place to post this, and you have heard this discussion before. But I've just had a few days working with the Focals...

I really like them. This type of monitor is very revealing. And the stereo image is a treat! I feel like I am on holiday, enjoying huge panorama's!

But... untill now... I feel they sound 'too good'... perhaps it's my ears that have not been used to the brightness! I hope it is. I mixed something that sounded great on the new monitors... but back home I was missing some of the highs. The main vocal was missing some magic...

I guess you have to get used to these monitors.

I played the mix over small genelcs (that sound boxy compared to the focals)... but here I could detect the problems way better. And playing that back on the focals to dubble check... The combination of a small (less bright) monitor and the Focal Twins is the winner... I think...

So far I even like to level the bass on a small monitor, and then check back on the big once... still ok? Allright...

Also, playing back Jimi Hendrix is not so nice. I've gotten used to the bright guitars... a song like Gypsy eyes is just a bit too much on the focals and also the adams I have here... Hendrix was into bright rifs, with his stoned head (plus mastering of the cd's was done wrong!)... But I would not mix chops that bright on these monitors... is that a shame? Perhaps I will have to get to know them better... and learn to mix so it's just over the top... and then it's perfect... But soo far... Perhaps a less bright monitor is more my thing...

Please kill me with comments!

Does gypsy eyes sound perfect on your focals?

miqer
Old 18th September 2007
  #83
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why killing you? it's your experience - np with that

but a poster that constantly bashes Focal and when he gets called out just disappears is something else.

a little story from me: a few days ago a friend came in with a CD of a band he knows. He said I should listen for the mix since he thought it sounded great. So I pushed play on the cd player and the Focals showed some really huuuuuuge mixing problems (some stuff way too loud and panned strange - bass was non existent - the reverb stuff was all over the place - ...). He was absolutely amazed - his car speakers weren't as unforgiving as my speakers

But this doesn't mean you don't have to learn your speakers. I actually never had to learn the Focals - I mixed straight away - but they are the perfect match for me. I never used a second pair of speakers since my first mix and I was never disappointed (well I was disappointed but this wasn't because of some speakers heh). If you have to get used to them take your time it's certainly worth it.

Jo
Old 18th September 2007
  #84
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btw no single Hendrix record sounded ever right to me on any speakers

but don't let us open this can of worms

Jo
Old 18th September 2007
  #85
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daaronhoffman's Avatar
 

Just bought a pair of Twins off ebay for $2100(5 months old)!
Should arrive on Wednesday! Cain't wait!!!!

Hope they're as good as you guys say, I 'm going from Dynaudio BM6a's to the Focals TWin6s.

Aaron
Old 18th September 2007
  #86
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miqer View Post
Also, playing back Jimi Hendrix is not so nice. I've gotten used to the bright guitars... a song like Gypsy eyes is just a bit too much on the focals and also the adams I have here... Hendrix was into bright rifs, with his stoned head (plus mastering of the cd's was done wrong!)

a few things come to mind.

first, you can always roll back the tweet on the focals until they have a level of brightness that suits your taste. turn that trim all the way back and they'll get downright dark.

second, you're using mix tools to listen back to mastered material; this is not what they're for. their job is to help you build a mix that'll translate to the outside world. if you want to listen to hendrix and enjoy it, get the LP, use a tube phono stage, and crank some snells.

third, you admit the mastering was wrong on those cd's. it appears your adams and focals are showing this up; if you were mastering on them, you wouldn't make the same choices, right?

that's my final point: playback systems hide flaws, smooth the warts, make everything sound nice. studio monitors do the opposite, and that's a good thing.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 18th September 2007
  #87
Gear Maniac
 

I've lived them now for 2 months. I much prefer the mid-range on our 10m's and would definitely not trust the Twins to mix at present. They're nice to listen to, have a pleasant but overly flattering extended bass range, are very 'spacial' but as said they just don't have that mid - upper range clarity that I'm used to and is essential. The tweeters also take some getting used to although I don't have an issue with them.

And and one of ours arrived with a broken input selector but Unity sorted it thankfully.
Old 18th September 2007
  #88
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10m's = ns-10?
Old 18th September 2007
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muso View Post
I've lived them now for 2 months. I much prefer the mid-range on our 10m's and would definitely not trust the Twins to mix at present. They're nice to listen to, have a pleasant but overly flattering extended bass range, are very 'spacial' but as said they just don't have that mid - upper range clarity that I'm used to and is essential. The tweeters also take some getting used to although I don't have an issue with them.

And and one of ours arrived with a broken input selector but Unity sorted it thankfully.
I think I've had mine now for about 6 months, I barely ever even turn the NS10's on anymore
Old 18th September 2007
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muso View Post
They're nice to listen to, have a pleasant but overly flattering extended bass range
I have to disagree here I think the bass end is not overly flattering or overly extended but very accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muso View Post
but as said they just don't have that mid - upper range clarity that I'm used to and is essential.
I would say the clarity, which I agree is essential, is one of their greatest strength!

It's wierd what we all individually hear. You describe the twins almost opposite to what I would.
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