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ESR - ROUNDFFUSOR 1 Dynamics Plugins
Old 1st September 2007
  #1
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ESR - ROUNDFFUSOR 1

Hi,
have any of you heard of this company or this product at all?:

:::::::::: ESR ACOUSTICS ::::::::::

For the more acoustically astute amongst us, may I ask what your opinions of this product are?
Old 2nd September 2007
  #2
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Liviu, the inventor, is in Greece. I have a studio full of these, and I have mixed opinions about them. There is some difficulty making them work becaue of their design and the fact that you have to have quite a number of them in just the right places to get the best benefit. Here are the limitations, IMO:

1. Liviu will tell you to remove ALL other treatment from your room except for the first reflection (He allows for some absorption on the first reflection point if necessary). For me, this was a big task, and the result was a very LIVE sounding room, especially because I have a hard floor. Carpet is better with the Roundffusors..... so I had to buy some big-ass rugs.

2. You have to be quite a distance away from the front wall (treated with RFs) in order for there not to be weird phazey things going on. This really limits you as far as your mix position.

3. Simply putting the RFs up in the appropriate places is supposed to smooth out the low end. It didn't for me. So, Liviu told me to put 8 of them on a big piece of plywood and have friends move them back and forth on the ceiling till the problem frequency (room mode) went away. This is impractical and almost impossible to do.

So, now, I have the entire front wall covered with RFs, and some on the ceiling as well. I've brought back in a bunch of my treatment and it's covering up the RFs in the front, so it sort of defeats the purpose. But, I had to do it because I just couldn't handle all the reflections in the room. I also think that if these things really were the end all treatment as he claims they are, they would be in a lot more studios than they are. They do something, and it is a positive effect, but to have no absorption in a room, especially with a hard floor, doesn't work for me. And when I bring back in other treatment, it seems to defeat the purpose of the RFs. So, I dunno. I've been too busy to sort it all out and I don't know what I'm going to do cause it'll be a chore to tear all the RFs off the wall, and now that I've taken out all my more conventional bass traps, I'm afraid my room might sound like ass if I pull the RFs.

Hope that helps!

j
Old 2nd September 2007
  #3
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beyarecords's Avatar
 

Hi J,

many thanks for your reply, it has been most helpful.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #4
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u b k's Avatar
 

afaict, these things are claiming to circumvent the basic realities of acoustics in non-acoustically designed spaces.

to quote homer j. simpson, "in this house we obey the laws of THERMODYNAMICS!"


gregoire
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ubk
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Old 4th September 2007
  #5
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I've got 6 on my ceiling and they fixed my comb filtering problem. Worked for me.
Old 15th November 2007
  #6
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Actually I'd say that the R1 does a fantastic job of dealing with the harsh realities of rooms that were not designed for acoustics.

When you are working with a "repurposed" room, there are lots of issues that preclude the correct placement of materials. Doors, windows, furniture and people get in the way. Or, as jayman says above, it's just "impractical". This problem exists regardless of the product you are using. You can't expect perfection, particularly if you can't change the walls, doors, windows or even speaker/listener layout.

Small room acoustics is a deep subject, and nobody has a full understanding of it yet. Psychoacoustics figure very strongly in small room acoustics. Given any single measured problem (bass modes, flutter echo, comb filtering, uneven spectral decay) it is possible to fix the measured problem. But some of these problems, while real measured phenomenon, are not perceived. You can measure a comb filter but you may not perceive it because small head movements and our brain's internal filtering can accomodate the effects of early reflections. On the other hand, a small patch of reflective surface can cause a noticeable coloration if the rest of the room is very dead. This shows that some solutions (such as broadband absorbers), when fixing one problem, will exacerbate another. The best tool I've found so far is broadband diffusion.

Over the years there has been a progression of room designs for small studios: Dead, LEDE, RFZ, and now Diffuse. In my opinion, the Diffuse design best accomodates all the complicated phenomena of a real-world room. It is _never_ a bad idea to add smooth broadband diffusion and low-frequency absorption to a room.

Broadband absorption, on the other hand, can be dangerous. I sell fiberglass panels, but in a typical room I may only use 10-20 square feet of these absorbers, if any. Broadband absorption is like a drug... it's hard to stop at just a little, and a lot of it can kill. If your "bass absorber" is still absorbing at 1k then it's really a broadband absorber. Try to find a device that absorbs only low frequencies, isn't tuned to a particular frequency, doesn't require permanent construction, and doesn't cost a fortune to adequately cover the room. I know of only one ... the Roundffusor. I wish there were more, but for now it's the best thing around, and it's patented so there aren't any copies.

The Roundffusor reduces room problems without introducing problems of its own. Although the inventor's claims are very over-the-top, one can't argue with the facts: the R1's shape is an extemely efficient broadband diffusor, the air cavity in the back significantly absorbs low frequencies, and the hard plastic material does not absorb mid or high frequencies. With the roundffusor I can treat any small room with confidence that the room will be better than it was without them, even when we have to compromise on the placement.

-Ben Loftis
Studio Outfitters
Nashville, TN
Old 6th December 2007
  #7
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bump for some more info. A buddy of mine brought these up on another forum, and I too am curious. They look damn cool, but the word isn't out yet on how functional these things are
Old 8th December 2007
  #8
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speak now or forever hold your peace
Old 8th December 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLoftis View Post

Small room acoustics is a deep subject, and nobody has a full understanding of it yet. Psychoacoustics figure very strongly in small room acoustics. Given any single measured problem (bass modes, flutter echo, comb filtering, uneven spectral decay) it is possible to fix the measured problem. But some of these problems, while real measured phenomenon, are not perceived........ The best tool I've found so far is broadband diffusion.

-Ben Loftis
Studio Outfitters
Nashville, TN
We actually do know a fair amount about small room acoustics and what we can measure vs. what people prefer. Floyd Toole's AES review paper on the subject is a fantastic up to date reference...it was published in the summer of 2006.

We know, from emprical research, that people prefer reflections coming from the certain parts of the room and find them to be a detraction coming from the front of the room (consistent with an earlier poster's experience). We know that people prefer reflections that have the same spectral content as the original sound. We can even graph how intense a reflection must be for any given time delay (in milliseconds) to have one audible response as opposed to another (i.e. distorted sound, spaciousness or not audible). This has been done by many people with different groups and the works stands together.

Jason
Old 8th December 2007
  #10
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I am not so sure about this helmoholtz claim. Do these have any built in gap or holes of any kind between them?.....or is it mostly air tight?

Jason
Old 8th December 2007
  #11
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from what I understand, they do have a gap behind them
Old 8th December 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
from what I understand, they do have a gap behind them
Right, but just having empty space won't do anything. It needs either some sort of port or a vibrating membrane. They claim, and I don't doubt it, that they don't vibrate...so that is out.

Jason
Old 13th December 2007
  #13
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLoftis View Post
...the air cavity in the back significantly absorbs low frequencies...

how exactly is this accomplished?


gregoire
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ubk
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Old 13th December 2007
  #14
Led
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But I don't want my mix room to look like a roman bath house.....
Old 13th December 2007
  #15
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Led View Post
But I don't want my mix room to look like a roman bath house.....

below is from the website.

*cough* photoshop *cough*

the whole site feels like the modern equivalent of a pitch for a miracle hair tonic and soothing nerve elixir. NTTAWWT.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Attached Thumbnails
ESR - ROUNDFFUSOR 1-esrfake.jpg  
Old 13th December 2007
  #16
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confooshus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
below is from the website.

*cough* photoshop *cough*

.
LOL!!! That doesn't even look like Photoshop, it's more like Microsoft Paint... Man that's embarrassing to look at.
Old 13th December 2007
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
below is from the website.

*cough* photoshop *cough*

the whole site feels like the modern equivalent of a pitch for a miracle hair tonic and soothing nerve elixir. NTTAWWT.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
If Donald Trump designed studio panels, this is what it would look like!






If Steven Spielburg or George Lucas designed studio panels, it would look like these:

http://www.goldenacoustics.com/Galle...oomPhotos.html
Old 13th December 2007
  #18
Led
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Jayman....You're Fired! heh
Old 16th January 2008
  #19
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Hi Guys,

Sorry for the late reply, I don't keep up with these boards as well as I should.

There's not much else to say other than what I've got on my website.

There's no rocket science here, the Roundffusor is a piece of plastic with a complex surface that, when mounted using the included rails, creates an air column open at both ends. The result is a high frequency diffusor and low frequency absorber. I have had full-scale 3rd party ISO tests performed, and they work as advertized. The price is competitive, the installation system is well-designed, and they are durable.

My opinion (confirmed by experience) is that smooth, diffuse reflections and some low frequency absorption is the "holy grail" for small rooms. I have sold (and still sell) other forms of treatment, but the Roundffusor is the easiest way I've found to achieve this goal.

Feel free to call or write....

Ben Loftis
Studio Outfitters
Old 16th January 2008
  #20
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And yes, that picture is clearly photoshopped. I don't think this was meant to be misleading on the part of the manufacturer. There are many examples of real installations on his site and mine. (some good, some bad)

-Ben
Old 16th January 2008
  #21
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Melodioso's Avatar
 

What about the price?
Old 25th February 2009
  #22
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If anyone is interested, I have a brand new set of 15 of ESR Roundffusor panels for sale. These panels sell for $120 new, and I will let them go for much less, as I have no use for them, and the boxes are taking up space in my condo. Please email me if interested and for more info.
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