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is protools hd96 good as 192hd Digital Converters
Old 30th August 2007
  #1
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is protools hd96 good as 192hd

someone was telling me that the 192hd recorded at 96k /24. is better than the 96 io hd . recorded at 96k 24 bit..... but digidesign says there the same converter, but the 192 just has a higher sample rate.
Old 30th August 2007
  #2
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No.
Old 30th August 2007
  #3
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so you saying that 192 has better converters??????
Old 30th August 2007
  #4
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I'd have to say a good rule of thumb to follow here would be, if you think you will need 192, or you want to have yourself set for when the DVD format comes in, deal with 192HD.
If you dont care for recording at 192, and 96 is all you will ever need, deal with HD96.

Dont get caught up in what sounds better, because depending on how serious you are and how your budget is, you will be buying external converters, or an external clock sometime soon to boost sound quality.

Dont get caught up in that irrelevant stuff that someone was telling you, unless you are gonna spend the time to look into it for yourself.
Old 30th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWG_TRAIN View Post
so you dont know either????? huh,
No, because I wouldnt bother to waste time on trying to figure out something as useless as that.

If you are so concerned about it, look it up on the internet for yourself, or get that someone who told you about it to do a thorough listening test with you present, so you can be the judge of it for yourself.

There are so much variables that are involved with overall sound quality, that this issue you are wasting your time on, makes no sense.

This same amount of time you spent on this topic, could have been used to catch up on some reading or research, that would help you out in a lot of better ways than finding out if HD96 or 192HD sounds better at 96k recording.
Old 30th August 2007
  #6
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Dan Lavry believes the optimum sample rate to be somewhere around 60k.
Old 30th August 2007
  #7
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from what i hear, the 192io sound alot better than the 96io. I have a 96io and i recently bought an apogee rosetta 200 and there was a MAJOR increase in sound quality. Even stuff that was recorded through the 96io A/D sounded better on playback through the Apogee than playback through the 96io.

Something I've noticed too was that the A/D converters sound ok on the 96io but its the D/A that is not that great. I would say the 96io is alittle better than the Digi002. This is from my experience. I used to own a 002 before i upgraded to HD with 96io then recently to Apogee converters.

So to answer your question, from what i've read, yes the 192io is definitely better than the 96io. Again I would rate the 96io just above a Digi002.

Hope this helps, I had the same question when I was looking for a better converter cause I wasn't gettin that "sound" from the 96io and I decided to go with the Apogee over the 192io and I've finally got that "sound"

By the way I mostly do hiphop and r&b...
Old 30th August 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2020|HD View Post
from what i hear, the 192io sound alot better than the 96io. I have a 96io and i recently bought an apogee rosetta 200 and there was a MAJOR increase in sound quality. Even stuff that was recorded through the 96io A/D sounded better on playback through the Apogee than playback through the 96io.

Something I've noticed too was that the A/D converters sound ok on the 96io but its the D/A that is not that great. I would say the 96io is alittle better than the Digi002. This is from my experience. I used to own a 002 before i upgraded to HD with 96io then recently to Apogee converters.

So to answer your question, from what i've read, yes the 192io is definitely better than the 96io. Again I would rate the 96io just above a Digi002.

Hope this helps, I had the same question when I was looking for a better converter cause I wasn't gettin that "sound" from the 96io and I decided to go with the Apogee over the 192io and I've finally got that "sound"

By the way I mostly do hiphop and r&b...
Are you sure about this? Is it possible you got some misinformation? I have heard the opposite.
Old 30th August 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWG_TRAIN View Post
YOUR WASTING MY TIME!!!!!! DONT NEED YOUR ADVICE OK!!!! JUST A SOLID ANSWER FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOW THESE CONVERTERS INSIDE AND OUT...
wow. you aren't obnoxious at all i can see you're going to have a long and glorious stint here on GS.

ever heard of caps lock? yea, press it again.
Old 30th August 2007
  #10
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thanks 2020|hd
Old 30th August 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gm5k View Post
wow. you aren't obnoxious at all i can see you're going to have a long and glorious stint here on GS.

ever heard of caps lock? yea, press it again.

Awww, give the little fella a break. He has to have someone hold his hand and spoon feed him everything he needs to know so he won't have to do any real research himself.
Old 30th August 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrox247 View Post
Are you sure about this? Is it possible you got some misinformation? I have heard the opposite.

Hey, it's what he HEARD, so it must be absolutely true. Right?
Old 30th August 2007
  #13
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The 96I/O is not a very good sounding interface. A lot of people think it's the same converters as the 192 but with only 96K. Not true! It is a completely different set of converters which are pretty crappy. Unfortunately I got stuck being part of a project a few years ago where the studio had the 96I/O and I honestly thought they sounded like blackface ADATs. I'm not kidding.

Yuck!

Run away!

Get Apogees.
Old 30th August 2007
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Hey,

i think i can answer your question

I was doing a mix OTB from pro tools to analog console vi 96 i/o,
When just as i was finishing a song, the 192 came in trough the door.
This was a 96kHz session.

So I mixed down the exact same track once more, only difference being 192 i/o instead of the 96 i/o.

The difference was night and day.
Ended up doing recalls on the already mixed track to do them trough the 192i/o's.

Hope this helps!

The thing is the big difference is the D/A, not the A/D. So if you're doing ITB without much outboard, the 96i/o will do the job.

The 192kHz feature in itself are useless, as 96KHz sounds slightly better.
Old 30th August 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWG_TRAIN View Post
YOUR WASTING MY TIME!!!!!! DONT NEED YOUR ADVICE OK!!!! JUST A SOLID ANSWER FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOW THESE CONVERTERS INSIDE AND OUT...
That was pretty rude
Old 30th August 2007
  #16
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With a good external clock the 96ios are perfectly fine. Don't listen to any retailer/broker that tells you otherwise.
Old 30th August 2007
  #17
EJW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWG_TRAIN View Post
so you dont know either????? huh,
You're a pretty rude dude, you should at least chill on the question marks, makes you look like a dick.
Old 30th August 2007
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
The 96I/O is not a very good sounding interface. A lot of people think it's the same converters as the 192 but with only 96K. Not true! It is a completely different set of converters which are pretty crappy. Unfortunately I got stuck being part of a project a few years ago where the studio had the 96I/O and I honestly thought they sounded like blackface ADATs. I'm not kidding.

Yuck!

Run away!

Get Apogees.
I'll second this as fact Re: different converters. It is a FACT. Not hearsay. That's all I'll say.
Old 30th August 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dokushoka View Post
With a good external clock the 96ios are perfectly fine. Don't listen to any retailer/broker that tells you otherwise.
Shut up with the retailer/broker thing!

I may have a day-job as a "retailer/broker" but I've been an engineer for longer than most up here--24 years--and I care about sound. Regardless of what we sell or don't sell, the 96I/O sound like a sh*t-sandwich. Compare it with any other converter, a 192, and Apogee, a Lynx, a Prism, all things being equal, whether they're all clocked or all not clocked, the 96 is crappity-crap-crap. Worst thing I've heard since first generation Adats.

I think the 192 is plain and boring, but it's a lot better than the 96.

In this session I referred to, we'd get this great guitar sound, with two amps and three or four mics. We'd spend like a half-hour blending the inputs together until we got a killer guitar tone. Then we'd track it with the 96I/O and then play it back. How dissapointed I was by the playback. Low end body -- gone. High end -- brittle and harsh. Overall the great sound became thin and lost all harmonic beauty and solidity and soul.
Old 30th August 2007
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWG_TRAIN View Post
YOUR WASTING MY TIME!!!!!! DONT NEED YOUR ADVICE OK!!!! JUST A SOLID ANSWER FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOW THESE CONVERTERS INSIDE AND OUT...
eeeeasy son..

this aint some trash talking newsgroup like r.a.p. I suggest you modify your tone if you expect to stick around.

the 96io is different inside and out from the 192. and not in a good way. it is a budget interface for entry level HD rooms.

my motto: do it once, do it right. get the 192 if you can swing it( used is fine).

-s0nguy
Old 30th August 2007
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
Shut up with the retailer/broker thing!

I may have a day-job as a "retailer/broker" but I've been an engineer for longer than most up here--24 years--and I care about sound. Regardless of what we sell or don't sell, the 96I/O sound like a sh*t-sandwich. Compare it with any other converter, a 192, and Apogee, a Lynx, a Prism, all things being equal, whether they're all clocked or all not clocked, the 96 is crappity-crap-crap. Worst thing I've heard since first generation Adats.

I think the 192 is plain and boring, but it's a lot better than the 96.

In this session I referred to, we'd get this great guitar sound, with two amps and three or four mics. We'd spend like a half-hour blending the inputs together until we got a killer guitar tone. Then we'd track it with the 96I/O and then play it back. How dissapointed I was by the playback. Low end body -- gone. High end -- brittle and harsh. Overall the great sound became thin and lost all harmonic beauty and solidity and soul.
I completely disagree with you.

My broker/retailer comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you, so don't get all 'shut up' on me. It was more based on the fact that every single time I've talked to a retailer/broker trying to get a deal on a 96io they've told me that I "don't want one" and that "they're really only made for extra inputs like for keyboards and stuff."

Well funny, that is EXACTLY Digi's copy about them. Huh.

I have used the hell out of them and I know what they sound like. I have no problems with them and they aren't anywhere near the astronomically high prices that the 192s are.
Old 30th August 2007
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dokushoka View Post
I completely disagree with you.

My broker/retailer comment wasn't necessarily aimed at you, so don't get all 'shut up' on me.
That is funny. You made me laugh, in a good way. We'll have to agree to disagree 'cause I totally think the 96i/o blows, but what the hell, right? One man's trash is...blah blah blah.

Old 30th August 2007
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHunter View Post
That is funny. You made me laugh, in a good way. We'll have to agree to disagree 'cause I totally think the 96i/o blows, but what the hell, right? One man's trash is...blah blah blah.

Oh I'm so glad I could make you laugh.
Old 30th August 2007
  #24
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Quote:
digidesign says there the same converter, but the 192 just has a higher sample rate.
As others have pointed out, they don't sound the same, even at the same sampling rate...and Digidesign has never claimed that they are the same converter either. They're very different. Different power supply, analog circuitry, converter chips, etc...the difference is audible even at 44.1 khz.

Quote:
With a good external clock the 96ios are perfectly fine. Don't listen to any retailer/broker that tells you otherwise.
I'd agree that they're "perfectly fine", but I the 192's are quite a bit better. But don't take my word for it, and don't listen to any retailer or broker or engineer or producer or anonymous forum poster...see if you can check them out for yourself. I don't think the differences are subtle, at least on more reveailng sources.

Quote:
It was more based on the fact that every single time I've talked to a retailer/broker trying to get a deal on a 96io they've told me that I "don't want one" and that "they're really only made for extra inputs like for keyboards and stuff."

Well funny, that is EXACTLY Digi's copy about them. Huh.
I know that it's a hard notion to grasp, but did it ever occur to you that the reason that Digidesign's ad copy says that...as well as the retailer/brokers you've spoken to (you say "every single time"...how many times have you discussed these boxes with retailer/brokers?)...might be because it's actually true, and that the 192 converters are actually much better?
Old 30th August 2007
  #25
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ok, correction, i read this at sweetwater. com not Digidesign. (It made me think that the converters were the same, but 192 just had higher sample rates...)

here is what sweetwater said:
At around half the price of Digidesign's 888|24 I/O, the 96 I/O is the perfect choice for those who want to experience the power of the innovative Pro Tools|HD system but don't need all the192 I/O's high sampling support capabilities. The 96 I/O interface might be the best-sounding 24-bit/96kHz out there. The audio quality is nothing short of stunning. You get 16 channels of fantastic I/O options, including 8 channels of high-definition analog I/O, 8 channels of ADAT optical I/O, 2 channels of AES/EBU and S/PDIF I/O, and Word Clock I/O. Plus, it's compatible with the latest standards in the world of digital audio production.

Last edited by HAWG_TRAIN; 30th August 2007 at 10:29 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 30th August 2007
  #26
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Yeah, there's a lot of marketing speak there, but even that doesn't claim that they're the same.
Old 30th August 2007
  #27
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alot of marketing!!! WOW ..... I mean they could have said, the 96io has different converters and it sounds differnt than the 192....

the 96 I/O is the perfect choice for those who want to experience the power of the innovative Pro Tools|HD system but don't need all the192 I/O's high sampling support capabilities. The 96 I/O interface might be the best-sounding 24-bit/96kHz out there. The audio quality is nothing short of stunning
Old 30th August 2007
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWG_TRAIN View Post
ok, correction, i read this at sweetwater. com not Digidesign. (It made me think that the converters were the same, but 192 just had higher sample rates...)

here is what sweetwater said:
At around half the price of Digidesign's 888|24 I/O, the 96 I/O is the perfect choice for those who want to experience the power of the innovative Pro Tools|HD system but don't need all the192 I/O's high sampling support capabilities. The 96 I/O interface might be the best-sounding 24-bit/96kHz out there. The audio quality is nothing short of stunning. You get 16 channels of fantastic I/O options, including 8 channels of high-definition analog I/O, 8 channels of ADAT optical I/O, 2 channels of AES/EBU and S/PDIF I/O, and Word Clock I/O. Plus, it's compatible with the latest standards in the world of digital audio production.
Wow. Now THAT is some broker/retailer crapola for ya!

Stunning is right! I was stunned when I heard it.

I guaranTEE the person who wrote that never heard one, probably is not an engineer, and maybe saw a picture of one.
Old 30th August 2007
  #29
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Digi 192 vs 96

It's been a while since I read the cataloge, but I remember the 192 having slightly better specs (THD and S/N ratio) so I don't thinks they're the same box. They might (and probably do) have the same convertor chips, but as you know most of the quality of the boxes depends on all the other componants before and after the chips. You probably won't be recording much or at all at 192, but even for recording at 96, the 192 I think is the better unit and worth the extra grand. Personally, I don't think that it's a good time to be buying these convertors, but that'd be a whole other thread!

Good luck!
Old 30th August 2007
  #30
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Why doesn't someone run some tones through the 96io and throw and analyzer on the results? That was we'll have some actual information rather than speculation.
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