The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
2 different compressors and an M/S room mic combination Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 29th August 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Stereo M/S room micing using one 1176

Before I waist a load of time, has anyone tried this:

Scenario
You've only got 1 UA 1176 at your disposal and you want to do the obligatory all buttons thing on your drum room mics, which you prefer to have in stereo for a greater sense of space.

Solution
Use M/S mic'ing with the 1176 smacking the “M” channel and a different compressor on the “S” channel. Then decode into normall stereo on mix down. Or 1176 on “M” and no compressor on the “S”?

Has anyone tried this and if so what were the results like?

Cheers

Steve
Old 29th August 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Either no-ones tried it or no-one understands what I'm on about!
Old 29th August 2007
  #3
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 

I've tried simlar things with M-S. You get kind of what you'd expect. Whacky stereo widening, and collapsing, if the comps aren't tracking together. It really depends on the settings. "All buttons in" isn't something I do on a regular basis.

If you're compressing the M, and not the side, the sound field should widen when the track is louder. If you compress both, there's too many variables to say.


Go for it, you wild and crazy guy!
Old 29th August 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post

Go for it, you wild and crazy guy!
lol I might just do that heh

When Budget allows its 2-1176 time I think
Old 30th August 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
lord_bunny's Avatar
 

I'm a fan of gating the room mic's to open up on the snare, maybe use the mid with the 1176 all-button squish up the middle, use another compressor on the side and let it open just for the snare... might be a cool way to impart some extra dimension.
Old 30th August 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
peat's Avatar
did a similar thing the other day

M/S set up in stairwell coming off drum room
M mic through DBX 160a
S mic through DBX 160x

both with fairly different settings
sounded pretty good
however not much stereo width in the stairwell, but im a huge M/S fan
my room mics were SM7's in ORTF facing away from the kit


do you have any other hardware compressors you could hit before you go to tape
or just the one 1176?
Old 30th August 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peat View Post

do you have any other hardware compressors you could hit before you go to tape
or just the one 1176?
Yeah a few. Smart C2, tfpro P38, 2 x SSL X-Rack compressors and hopefully should have a Buzz Audio Potion in a couple of weeks. I've also got 2 Focusrite ISA220 but the compressors on those units are useless on drums. None of which do the 1176 thing!

As mentioned before, do you find a widening/narrowing of the image using different comp on M/S?

Thanks for the reply
Old 30th August 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 
peat's Avatar
well with the limited stereo image that is in that stairwell
its hard to say
if anything
it may have been a little more centred, not as wide as usual

youve got some pretty sweet comps
it sound like having the same comp on both mics would be the way to go

maybe try tracking them without compression
adding it in mixdown
maybe use a plug so you can use a pair of the same comps?
why not the x-rack comps even?
or are they already in use during tracking?
Old 30th August 2007
  #9
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peat View Post
did a similar thing the other day

M/S set up in stairwell coming off drum room
M mic through DBX 160a
S mic through DBX 160x

both with fairly different settings
sounded pretty good
however not much stereo width in the stairwell, but im a huge M/S fan
my room mics were SM7's in ORTF facing away from the kit


do you have any other hardware compressors you could hit before you go to tape
or just the one 1176?
So, are you sending the mics through a MS encoder, then processing? How do you get M-S from ORTF?
Old 30th August 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 
peat's Avatar
whoa whoa

sorry if i made that confusing

i have stereo room mics (SM7's in ortf)

and i have an M/S pair in the stairwell coming off the drum room

so two sets of room mics

the M/S is a tlm103 and an AT 4050



even with an ms decoder
there is no possible way to get M/S when the mics are set up ORTF
even more so that they are both cardioid mics
Old 30th August 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peat View Post
well with the limited stereo image that is in that stairwell
its hard to say
if anything
it may have been a little more centred, not as wide as usual

youve got some pretty sweet comps
it sound like having the same comp on both mics would be the way to go

maybe try tracking them without compression
adding it in mixdown
maybe use a plug so you can use a pair of the same comps?
why not the x-rack comps even?
or are they already in use during tracking?
The P38 is quite nice on drums and is obviously stereo, but I really want to track my room mics though the wonderful sound of an 1176. Guess I'll just wait until I can afford a 2-1176
Old 30th August 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Sorry am I stupid, but what's ORTF
Old 30th August 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 
peat's Avatar
its an acronym of a french phrase
i think its their national broacasting thing, i cant remember

basically its two cardioids about a 6-12" apart
facing slightly away from each other

\ /


^sort of like that
meant to replicate two ears on a head if i remember correctly
Old 30th August 2007
  #14
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetgn View Post
Sorry am I stupid, but what's ORTF
2 mics 170cm apart facing 110 degrees from each other.


And, there is such a thing as a M-S encoder. Some mastering guys use them to process the stereo information separately from the mono information. I use them for fun.
Old 30th August 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
peat's Avatar
i never said there wasnt such a thing!

i use one for mastering too
Old 30th August 2007
  #16
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peat View Post
whoa whoa...snip



even with an ms decoder
there is no possible way to get M/S when the mics are set up ORTF
even more so that they are both cardioid mics
I think we had 2 miscomunications there.
Old 30th August 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by peat View Post
its an acronym of a french phrase
i think its their national broacasting thing, i cant remember

basically its two cardioids about a 6-12" apart
facing slightly away from each other

\ /


^sort of like that
meant to replicate two ears on a head if i remember correctly
Well you learn something new everyday! 20 odd years now I've been working in studios and with audio gear and I've never heard of that one before. Tell me more what's the point, what does it accomplish that other mic'ing techniques don't?

That's whats great about this job... you never know everything! (although some think they do )
Old 30th August 2007
  #18
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 

It's just one standard, set a long time ago, that's meant to closely resemble how a person in the room would hear. The plus side being a fairly realistic soundstage, the down side being not as good mono compatibility as X/Y, Blumlein, or M-S.

It's basically an exact standard for "spaced pair."
Old 30th August 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
It's just one standard, set a long time ago, that's meant to closely resemble how a person in the room would hear. The plus side being a fairly realistic soundstage, the down side being not as good mono compatibility as X/Y, Blumlein, or M-S.

It's basically an exact standard for "spaced pair."
Cool, Cheers. Feel a bit of a prick having never heard of that one
Old 30th August 2007
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetgn View Post
Before I waist a load of time, has anyone tried this:

Scenario
You've only got 1 UA 1176 at your disposal and you want to do the obligatory all buttons thing on your drum room mics, which you prefer to have in stereo for a greater sense of space.

Solution
Use M/S mic'ing with the 1176 smacking the “M” channel and a different compressor on the “S” channel. Then decode into normall stereo on mix down. Or 1176 on “M” and no compressor on the “S”?

Has anyone tried this and if so what were the results like?

Cheers

Steve
I have tried that concept. I did it with a TG-1 and a Dangerous S&M box with the TG-1 set to limit the center a compress the sides. It was very cool. I don't rememer why I stopped doing that - probably missing the THD on the sides.
Old 30th August 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 
stevetgn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I have tried that concept. I did it with a TG-1 and a Dangerous S&M box with the TG-1 set to limit the center a compress the sides. It was very cool. I don't rememer why I stopped doing that - probably missing the THD on the sides.
Thanks 4 the reply
Did you experience any image widening/narrow problems?
Old 31st August 2007
  #22
Define problems.


The limiter's release was far faster the the compressor's release.

As a result, the cymbals were less washy and there was a cool blooming of the snare which would get wider (in the stereo sense) at the speed of the compressor's release. It was very cool.

If you don't want that effect, I guess that's a problem.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
kissingonstilts / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
3
ine-kpro... / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music and Location Recording
13
GREENFENDR / Low End Theory
3
nico / So much gear, so little time
4

Forum Jump
Forum Jump