The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Neve 1073 vs 1272 Dual-Channel Preamps
Old 26th August 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
 
gainstages's Avatar
Neve 1073 vs 1272

i'm very familiar with the sound of the 1073, but don't know anything really about the sound of at 1272. can someone enlighten me as to the differences in tonality and design?
Old 26th August 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
I have some old 1272s racked by Averill... the old original ones, not repros. I compared them to the new 1073 DPA pres.

In terms of sonic character, they are EXTREMELY similar. Closest thing I have heard yet to the real 1073. They both have that classic "Neve crunch", they also tend to compress the signal, etc. They are very closely related in those ways.

A well racked old original 1272 is indeed a poor man's 1073 pre... essentially same sonic character for less money.
Old 26th August 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
i have BA racked vintage 1272s too and a pair of neve 1084s. they sound very similar on a hot source like a tube mic. i believe 1084s and 73s have more gain stages than 1272s so they probably won't sound the same when you crank them. haven't attempted to compare them at high gain settings, but at low gain settings they sound very similar to me.

hopefully someone more knowledgable than i will chime in.
Old 26th August 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
i have BA racked vintage 1272s too and a pair of neve 1084s...


Hey, not to get off the subject...

But has anyone tried the BA "repro" 1073s or 1084s... or "repro" 1272s for that matter? I wonder how they compare sonically to the Neve originals.
Old 26th August 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
gainstages's Avatar
thanks guys, this is a little bit of help so far. basically, what I was wanting to confirm that it at least had a similar sound. from what i have found online so far it seems that the preamp itself is the same, but the 1272 has no EQ . not sure about the rest of the circuitry
Old 26th August 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
gainreduction's Avatar
 

The 1272 is a line amp, not a mic preamp, with roughly 30-40 dB of gain.

It also has less gainstages than the 1073 and I recall reading a post by Geoff Tanner where he explained that most 1272's converted to mic pres are choking the first gainstage and not using the second. It would probably be a cool distortion box but not a 1073 by any means.

The only place 1272's were used as a micpre was for the console talkback mic.

The micpre (similar size module) is the 1290 and that would probably be closer to a poor man's 1073.

Geoff, you out there ?
Old 27th August 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
gainstages's Avatar
wow, now that was the kind of detail i was looking for! thanks for your input.
Old 27th August 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Andrew Kinsey's Avatar
 

Neve consoles used passive summing rails and they used the 1272 as the summing amplifier.

The 1272 is made using the same transformers as the 1073's and i believe the circuit is very similar however was intended for driving line level signals instead of micpres.

All the moded & cloned units out there have all been adapted for use as a micpre and as ressult they may not have the same amount of gain as 1073's however they will have a similar sound. Also it depends who moded it and how they did it, there are bound to be differences between two differently moded units.

I would however like to try using a 1272 for passive summing!

Old 27th August 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Geoff_T's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction View Post
The 1272 is a line amp, not a mic preamp, with roughly 30-40 dB of gain.

It also has less gainstages than the 1073 and I recall reading a post by Geoff Tanner where he explained that most 1272's converted to mic pres are choking the first gainstage and not using the second. It would probably be a cool distortion box but not a 1073 by any means.

The only place 1272's were used as a micpre was for the console talkback mic.

The micpre (similar size module) is the 1290 and that would probably be closer to a poor man's 1073.

Geoff, you out there ?
Hi

My grumble with the rackers (wreckers) of 1272's is that most copy a particularly crappy diagram that was posted on the web about 6 years ago by someone with no clue how to wire one. This diagram attempts (unwisely) to mimic sections of the 1073 circuit which is fine up to around 40dB of gain but goes down the toilet at gains much higher than that because they finish up (when approaching 70dB gain) with the preamp running at virtually open loop gain while the output amp is virtually idling.

The point you raise correctly above is that the 1290 was the 5.25" mic pre, not the
1272 and, unless you add the missing extra amplifier used in the 1290/1073, the 1272 can never be a 1073 clone if gains over around 50dB are expected.

The 1272 mic pre in Neve consoles, that worked fine, had the gain equally split between the pre amp and output amp which, coincidentally, is how the Seventh Circle amplifiers work.

Perhaps they read my posts!

Old 27th August 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Rednose's Avatar
Just rented a pair of 1272s and used to have a pair of 1081s in the studio.
To me the pre is very nice. Deffinitely darker than the other pres I've compared it to, but coupled with a brite mic, its great.
The eq section on the 1073 and 1081 is where the real magic is at.
Old 27th August 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 
crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
The 1272 mic pre in Neve consoles, that worked fine, had the gain equally split between the pre amp and output amp which, coincidentally, is how the Seventh Circle amplifiers work.

Perhaps they read my posts!

lol! And is perhaps why it is still one my favorite "Neve-Alikes". The SCA N72, Mr Tanner's products, Chandlers products and Mr. Averil's products (specifically the 1073 recreation) to me are some of the best.

The N72 just consistently wins shootouts here with just about everything we put it up against... including rented original 1073's.

JMTC...

p.s. Thanks for the info Geoff!
Old 28th August 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Tone Laborer's Avatar
Yeah, and how many N72s can $4,500 buy you. Or whatever 1073s go for these days.

Geoff, on an earlier thread you mentioned a mod kit to convert a 1272 to a 1290, the preferred Neve preamp design.

I would like to hear from anyone who has done this, or anyone who's talked to Brent Averill about this.

I would hope that if you dropped the cash on a 1073 you would see what the extra money went for. One of the most prized pre and EQ out there. And multiple times more expensive than a ch of 1272.

But 1272s are in LOTS of studios for a reason. "might be ok as a distortion box"
c'mon.
Old 28th August 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Laborer View Post
But 1272s are in LOTS of studios for a reason. "might be ok as a distortion box"c'mon.
fwiw i find my BA racked 1272s very useful. awhile back, in another thread i posted a male vox > U47 > germs, API312, 1272, avalon M22, tele V72, all calibrated to within .1dB.

files are around half way down the page:Germanium First Impressions if anyone's interested.
Old 28th August 2007
  #14
Gear Nut
 
KingBugsy's Avatar
 

I recently compared Averill racked 1272's with a new Neve 1073 DPA. They sounded very similiar... both had that Neve crunch with an aggressive tone. We had recorded distorted guitars and electric bass for our test. While the sonic character was very simliar, the 1073 had better frequency response. More highs and lows. Sounded wider overall. The 1073 is my favorite preamp for recording rock guitars.
Old 28th August 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Tone Laborer's Avatar
Thanks for the clips raal. I'll have to listen on better speakers. Here's some clips of 1272, not a shootout just a few to show some variety of the preamp.




Neve 1272 ??? HELP !
Old 27th October 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
rids's Avatar
 

I'm wondering if I should sell my Neve 1272 clone and buy a 1073 clone. I've heard the 1073 is the better of the 2 Neve pres, and I was thinking it might be better to use the money to buy a different pre instead of having 2 Neve clones. You guys see any merit in having both around? And I'm guessing you'd agree if you had only 2 pres, you wouldn't buy 2 Neve clones, rather a Neve type to pair with another flavor.
Old 28th October 2007
  #17
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rids View Post
I'm wondering if I should sell my Neve 1272 clone and buy a 1073 clone. .
Depends on which Neve clones we are talking about....
Old 28th October 2007
  #18
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

A 1272 is 199 better than a 1073, right?

War
Old 28th October 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 
whitepapagold's Avatar
 

The Brent Averills are exactly the same- 1272/1073 sonically. I had both, side by side, and sold the 1272s after getting the 1073s and doing an A/B comparison. I could hear no difference whatsoever- buts thats the BAE clones.
Old 28th October 2007
  #20
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post
The Brent Averills are exactly the same- 1272/1073 sonically. I had both, side by side, and sold the 1272s after getting the 1073s and doing an A/B comparison. I could hear no difference whatsoever- buts thats the BAE clones.
Well, that's not exactly true. They start to sound different after about 50 db of gain.

But, the BAE clones are the ONLY one's I can vouch for.
Old 28th October 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 
666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
They start to sound different after about 50 db of gain. But, the BAE clones are the ONLY one's I can vouch for.
How would you describe that difference?
Old 28th October 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 
rids's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold View Post
The Brent Averills are exactly the same- 1272/1073 sonically. I had both, side by side, and sold the 1272s after getting the 1073s and doing an A/B comparison. I could hear no difference whatsoever- buts thats the BAE clones.
That doesn't make sense to me. The BA 1272 is cheaper in price than a pair of BA 1073s, so why not keep the 1272 if they sound the same and save money for something else?

The ones I was talking about are: I have a Studio Electronics Pre2 (1272 type) and was thinking about getting the Vintech 273. I'm wondering if this would be a good move and would it be better if I sold the Pre2 to get another preamp, something like a UA 610 or used A Designs MP2A.
Old 28th October 2007
  #23
Gear Addict
 
tarnationsauce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
lol! And is perhaps why it is still one my favorite "Neve-Alikes". The SCA N72, Mr Tanner's products, Chandlers products and Mr. Averil's products (specifically the 1073 recreation) to me are some of the best.

The N72 just consistently wins shootouts here with just about everything we put it up against... including rented original 1073's.

JMTC...

p.s. Thanks for the info Geoff!
I agree. the SCA N72 is one of the best sounding Neve type preamps I have ever used.
I used to have an original 1272 (custom rack job), and a ME1NV. Both of those were sold. The ROA of those preamps was not good enough (especially the real Neve). Meaning I couldn't justify keeping them with how much they were worth, compared to how much money I make off them. Not to mention I have a couple N72's that are cheaper and just simply as good or better sounding.
I'm keeping the N72's, and I'll buy more when I need them.
Old 28th October 2007
  #24
The N72's are wired or set up properly. They are dope for summing after my folcrom.





Quote:
Originally Posted by tarnationsauce View Post
I agree. the SCA N72 is one of the best sounding Neve type preamps I have ever used.
I used to have an original 1272 (custom rack job), and a ME1NV. Both of those were sold. The ROA of those preamps was not good enough (especially the real Neve). Meaning I couldn't justify keeping them with how much they were worth, compared to how much money I make off them. Not to mention I have a couple N72's that are cheaper and just simply as good or better sounding.
I'm keeping the N72's, and I'll buy more when I need them.
Old 28th October 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
whitepapagold's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rids View Post
That doesn't make sense to me. The BA 1272 is cheaper in price than a pair of BA 1073s, so why not keep the 1272 if they sound the same and save money for something else?
Because I wanted the eq section? Why would I double up on pre amps if I don't need to. Now I can get something that will add another flavor and I still have stereo Neve... Makes perfect sense! I don't need four channels of ANYTHING! Especially since I track drums out. Funny, I never saw anyone confused over adding an EQ section...
Old 28th October 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
They start to sound different after about 50 db of gain.
true, but if you have a hotter source where you don't need to go past 40-50dB they really do sound very similar, at least to my ears.

i have both Neve 1272 racked by BA and original 1084s and i pretty much use them indistinctly when high gain isn't required, which is most of the time.
Old 29th October 2007
  #27
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
true, but if you have a hotter source where you don't need to go past 40-50dB they really do sound very similar, at least to my ears.
They sound exactly the same to my ears. But I don't know that I've ever needed to push a 1272 to the point that I'd notice the difference, if there is a difference.
Old 29th October 2007
  #28
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Yeah. Most mics these days don't let me push my pre-amps as high as I did when I used real tube 47's and 67's.
Old 29th October 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
1272 is nothin' to write home about imo ...1073 is good cause of it's multible functions ...high-pass comes in handy, etc.
Old 29th October 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_T View Post
Hi

My grumble with the rackers (wreckers) of 1272's is that most copy a particularly crappy diagram that was posted on the web about 6 years ago by someone with no clue how to wire one. This diagram attempts (unwisely) to mimic sections of the 1073 circuit which is fine up to around 40dB of gain but goes down the toilet at gains much higher than that because they finish up (when approaching 70dB gain) with the preamp running at virtually open loop gain while the output amp is virtually idling.

The point you raise correctly above is that the 1290 was the 5.25" mic pre, not the
1272 and, unless you add the missing extra amplifier used in the 1290/1073, the 1272 can never be a 1073 clone if gains over around 50dB are expected.

The 1272 mic pre in Neve consoles, that worked fine, had the gain equally split between the pre amp and output amp which, coincidentally, is how the Seventh Circle amplifiers work.

Perhaps they read my posts!

I never need 40 or 50 dB of gain recording drums or electric gtr.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
switch1 / High end
32
guitarbth / So much gear, so little time
10
cap217 / So much gear, so little time
28

Forum Jump
Forum Jump