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help me solve my console woes Control Surfaces
Old 2nd September 2007
  #31
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

my first thought was a smaller console than you initially envisioned alongside a 16 channel summer. with a 16 channel desk (i LOVE the sound of daking boards btw, pure classic tone) you'd be just 8 eq's shy of your target. a lunchbox with 6 550a's is what, $6k? throw in the summing box and you're at $60k with 32 inputs and 22 eq's. if you're paranoid about monitoring, just normal a speck line mixer into the bay and use that for your musician feeds.

the thing you've probably noticed is that every option you conceive of now will have limitations, esp. compared to the desk you'll be letting go of. all i can say is don't be afraid of or put off by limitations, IME they tend to increase my creativity and the quality of my work, at the expense of a little efficiency. having fewer options also, paradoxically, seems to increase my satisfaction with the choices i do end up making, because there's less second guessing after the fact about whether i made the right move.

don't know if any of that last part made sense, i just wanted to hit your brain early on with the reassurance that there is no perfect choice, we all see lots of guys spinning out every day over multiple choices that are all, on balance, equally good, just different. i think if you go hybrid you're going to miss some of the uber-ease that the ssl enabled by its very design, but you're going to love the simplicity, smaller footprint, and (best of all) the sonics of your new setup. my guess is it's all gonna push you into a more fulfilled place than you've ever been, so enjoy the ride (and the new room)!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #32
Lives for gear
 
themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dokushoka View Post
I have some questions about the Daking if you don't mind.

What kind of tape returns does it have? The website also says that there are only 4 auxes. This seems really low. What sort of aux returns are there? Also, are the busses only accessible via a switch? And there are only 8 busses, correct?

Thanks.
the tape returns are wherever you construe them at a particular time - i have a 24
channel daking monitor that i am about to upgrade to the daking plus 24 channel
monitor.....a few more options plus faders rather than pots on each of the 24 channels
in addition to the auto mute relays.......with 32 channels on the console i often work
on 16 track 2" with 2 buckets of pres 2 buckets of the studer returns - if i need
pro tools there are 24 channels in the juke box
geoff and i designed a d-sub patchbay which allows me to mult and move things
around pretty quickly.....

i am looking forward to getting another bucket of modules
i also have two of geoff's mic-pre iv's as outboard pres depending on the session.

there are only 4 auxes - yes it would be nice if there were eight, but with the busses
and multing possibilities, it has rarely been an issue

again, there are only 8 busses - once in a blue moon i wish there were 16, but
not even every year.....
there are 8 aux returns....
i have a relatively small beautiful sounding live room - with 12 mics and eight busses
and 2" 16 track or 2" 8 track, we can usually make things sound good.....
the daking board sounds beautiful and it looks beautiful and it had a build quality
that none of its rivals begin to approach......in my opinion nothing else in this
price range is as hand crafted, sounds as good or looks as good - the looks
and build are timeless....i also think console will always be useful - the mish-mash
assortment of pres i have never understood, but i work in analog. i have not made
one pro tools record in 07.


if i build another studio, it will be with a larger daking console.


be well


- jack
Old 2nd September 2007
  #33
Lives for gear
 
dokushoka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
the tape returns are wherever you construe them at a particular time - i have a 24
channel daking monitor that i am about to upgrade to the daking plus 24 channel
monitor.....a few more options plus faders rather than pots on each of the 24 channels
in addition to the auto mute relays.......with 32 channels on the console i often work
on 16 track 2" with 2 buckets of pres 2 buckets of the studer returns - if i need
pro tools there are 24 channels in the juke box
geoff and i designed a d-sub patchbay which allows me to mult and move things
around pretty quickly.....

i am looking forward to getting another bucket of modules
i also have two of geoff's mic-pre iv's as outboard pres depending on the session.

there are only 4 auxes - yes it would be nice if there were eight, but with the busses
and multing possibilities, it has rarely been an issue

again, there are only 8 busses - once in a blue moon i wish there were 16, but
not even every year.....
there are 8 aux returns....
i have a relatively small beautiful sounding live room - with 12 mics and eight busses
and 2" 16 track or 2" 8 track, we can usually make things sound good.....
the daking board sounds beautiful and it looks beautiful and it had a build quality
that none of its rivals begin to approach......in my opinion nothing else in this
price range is as hand crafted, sounds as good or looks as good - the looks
and build are timeless....i also think console will always be useful - the mish-mash
assortment of pres i have never understood, but i work in analog. i have not made
one pro tools record in 07.


if i build another studio, it will be with a larger daking console.


be well


- jack
Thanks for the reply Jack. My main concern is that I do lots of mults and use quite a bit of effects when mixing, so the ability to get lots of discrete sends is a huge factor for me. Are you just making your mults on the bay? Thanks again.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #34
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666666's Avatar
What about a Speck LiLo???

What I like about the LiLo is that you are paying for the summing and routing only... and you can then insert whatever cool outboard mic pres, eqs, comps etc that you already own. And if you do not already own a lot of outboard, it gives you the opportunity to put together a custom mic pre, eq, compressor inventory of exactly the sonic colors you feel you'll need.

I know some folks like the idea of having a fully loaded console, all pres, eqs etc of the same type, from the same manufacturer, in the same box, for a truly "unified" platform. I can appreciate that way of thinking, but I instead prefer to have maximum flexibility... period. I do not see anything wrong with having a "hodge-podge" of gear so you can pick and choose colors at will. Allows you to choose the best tool for the job at any moment... whether it be a vintage Neve unit or a tube unit or a GML unit, whatever.

Sure, it's nice to have a pre, eq etc on every channel of a mixer regardless, but you have to ultimately PAY for that. I'd rather pay for the outboard only, paint the audio with that, then use a transparent summing device... again, allows maximum flexibility.

I do not yet own a LiLo but am looking at it... a 24 channel version is available as I understand it (as well as a 16 as advertised)... but allows over 48 total inputs if necessary... just 24 faders through, the rest of the inputs are on knobs.

What do you guys think of the LiLo compared to say the Daking, API 1608 etc in terms of summing quality, overall audio path, etc?

Speck Electronics - LiLo Line Mixer
Old 3rd September 2007
  #35
Lives for gear
jack, would you have the measurements of the daking console or a link that has them? none on the site. thanks.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #36
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themaidsroom's Avatar
 

this is not my board, but something from a new pdf
geoff sent recently



be well


- jack
Attached Thumbnails
help me solve my console woes-daking-specs.png  
Old 3rd September 2007
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I know some folks like the idea of having a fully loaded console, all pres, eqs etc of the same type, from the same manufacturer, in the same box, for a truly "unified" platform. I can appreciate that way of thinking, but I instead prefer to have maximum flexibility... period.
I have yet to see a platform that was not purpose built from the bottom up be flexable. Most importantly from a routing perspective. While you might be able to mix and match pre's and eq's - these type of modular systems suffer badly in the routing dept because they can't know how the the system is going to be used and with what type of modules.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #38
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
these type of modular systems suffer badly in the routing dept because they can't know how the the system is going to be used and with what type of modules.
You mean in terms of matching impedance, etc? Wouldn't you then have the same "problem" inserting an assortment of outboard into ANY given console? Or am I missing the point?

I like to track through outboard pres directly into the recording device... don't use a mixer for recording, so I don't have any issues there.

For mixing, I like to insert an assortment of outboard eqs and compressors... 1073s, 550As, 1176s, whatever... regardless of whatever console I'm using. So what's the difference then if I am using a console that has no built-in eqs and comps and just relying on the inserted outboard only? I just want to make sure I am understanding your point.

In what ways exactly does the modular system suffer badly?

Thanks
Old 3rd September 2007
  #39
DRC
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
You mean in terms of matching impedance, etc? Wouldn't you then have the same "problem" inserting an assortment of outboard into ANY given console? Or am I missing the point?

I like to track through outboard pres directly into the recording device... don't use a mixer for recording, so I don't have any issues there.

For mixing, I like to insert an assortment of outboard eqs and compressors... 1073s, 550As, 1176s, whatever... regardless of whatever console I'm using. So what's the difference then if I am using a console that has no built-in eqs and comps and just relying on the inserted outboard only? I just want to make sure I am understanding your point.

In what ways exactly does the modular system suffer badly?

Thanks
I hear what you are saying 666666. Id like to do the same thing.

I too was looking heavily at the Lilo for the same reasons, the multiple balanced inputs/inserts as well. But I think the need for multiple groups busses, more auxes and the fact that it doesn't come any bigger than 24 unless he custom builds it means it would probably be too expensive if he built it that way.

Maybe somebody will build this "line mixer" we all seem to be looking for.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
this is not my board, but something from a new pdf
geoff sent recently

be well

- jack
From July to December of last year I went through EXACTLY the same thing you are going through. I did spreadsheets after spreadsheet on different TX configs (no confiulizer then). I then compared prices to Daking quotes.

Wunder had a prototype that I elected not to go and listen to (not enough busses). I was priveliged to know the API 1608 was coming (but no one could be sure when).

I auditioned TX stuff twice. It sounded great. Then I PM'd Jack and he graciously agreed to let me stop by and check out the Daking (Thanks Jack!) as I continued to be interested in a more conentional console. Jack's board (and work) sounded VERY nice indeed, but I did not like the monitor section as shown on the website. Geoff and Dave T. (DakingPlus) put together the monitor section w/faders that Jack is getting.

I elected to go with a twenty four input version. I don't have a good pic here of the whole console but here is a pdf similar to Jack's for the 24 input version w/the new monitor. Note that Geoff can place the center section and monitor anywhere you want them. You might also want to note that Jack's pdf contains a patchbay on the left. I went with external; everything on the bay.

I have to add that I also find Geoff (and company) to be GREAT to work with.

Here are some (not very good) pics and a pdf of my config.
Attached Thumbnails
help me solve my console woes-picture-4.jpg   help me solve my console woes-channels-small.jpg   help me solve my console woes-monitor-meters-small.jpg  
Old 3rd September 2007
  #41
Keep talking to Paul. I'm really happy w/my Tonelux system & am looking forward to expanding it. If you could manage to ditch the fader portion & do your mixing in the box, you'll save a ton of dough. Anyway- all your listed options are good ones. Good luck.


Best- Brad
Old 3rd September 2007
  #42
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Here's a thought...

D&R OrionX. 24-48 INLINE inputs (48-96). Then put a couple of racks of your fav 500 modules or Neve modules or ??? normaled to the inserts. Maybe some outboard EQ as well. Best of both worlds. And at a excellent price point. Colored pre's to match your particular need for the occation, as well as crystal clear D&R pre's & EQ if you decide to go that direction. Then you have bussing, tape returns and decent LED monitoring. Colored input and pristine mixing bus. Really, the best of both worlds. As a matter of fact....that's what I use, and can give it a hearty thumbs up!
Old 3rd September 2007
  #43
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
this is not my board, but something from a new pdf
geoff sent recently



be well


- jack
thanks jack. can't help but notice that if the monitor section were in line, the desk would be almost exactly the depth and height of an Icon Dcontrol. a Daking side car like that could be very cool... a little deeper than the present offering but 24 inputs could also fit in a 19" space! just thinking out loud...

aso found this little guy Pro Audio Design :: 877-223-8858 don't look too shabby!
Old 3rd September 2007
  #44
Lives for gear
 
themaidsroom's Avatar
 

that's the picture that drew me in to this racket back in 2000........
that is vintage daking.
i don't believe that board is for sale any more.



be well


- jack
Old 3rd September 2007
  #45
Lives for gear
 
numrologst's Avatar
I like the daking option, but I am hesitant.

I have heard of an equal amount of people that have had bad and good experiences. I don't want to spend $90k on a desk and have problems.

I've worked on the daking before and I love the sound... But I have heard about some build and reliability issues.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #46
Lives for gear
 
numrologst's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
my first thought was a smaller console than you initially envisioned alongside a 16 channel summer. with a 16 channel desk (i LOVE the sound of daking boards btw, pure classic tone) you'd be just 8 eq's shy of your target. a lunchbox with 6 550a's is what, $6k? throw in the summing box and you're at $60k with 32 inputs and 22 eq's. if you're paranoid about monitoring, just normal a speck line mixer into the bay and use that for your musician feeds.

the thing you've probably noticed is that every option you conceive of now will have limitations, esp. compared to the desk you'll be letting go of. all i can say is don't be afraid of or put off by limitations, IME they tend to increase my creativity and the quality of my work, at the expense of a little efficiency. having fewer options also, paradoxically, seems to increase my satisfaction with the choices i do end up making, because there's less second guessing after the fact about whether i made the right move.

don't know if any of that last part made sense, i just wanted to hit your brain early on with the reassurance that there is no perfect choice, we all see lots of guys spinning out every day over multiple choices that are all, on balance, equally good, just different. i think if you go hybrid you're going to miss some of the uber-ease that the ssl enabled by its very design, but you're going to love the simplicity, smaller footprint, and (best of all) the sonics of your new setup. my guess is it's all gonna push you into a more fulfilled place than you've ever been, so enjoy the ride (and the new room)!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
I hear ya man. I have to come to terms with that.... that there is no perfect choice.

That being said, I think I am leaning toward the tonelux, with the daking and api still in contention. The wunder is definitely no longer an option.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #47
Lives for gear
 
themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
I like the daking option, but I am hesitant.

I have heard of an equal amount of people that have had bad and good experiences. I don't want to spend $90k on a desk and have problems.

I've worked on the daking before and I love the sound... But I have heard about some build and reliability issues.
trust me, i have been through years now with this board - we installed it in
2002. many things have been worked on and modded. the sound is amazing.
geoff is the most reliable man in professional audio that i have met. he stands by
his work. my studio is built around that board. you will benefit from all the things
that others suggested along the way. that is how boutique audio works.
it is the only new console i'm aware of that really has its own sound, and it is foxy
to look at........


pm me if you want to talk



be well


- jack



p.s. just looking at the new opening page at vintage king - with api/neve/tonelux/toft - none of them are anywhere near the beauty and universal
design that geoff found with lines and proportions of the daking console - all of the others have a far greater plastic content - sound is subjective and i am not familiar with those boards, so i can not say........
Old 3rd September 2007
  #48
Lives for gear
 
dokushoka's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
trust me, i have been through years now with this board - we installed it in
2002. many things have been worked on and modded. the sound is amazing.
geoff is the most reliable man in professional audio that i have met. he stands by
his work. my studio is built around that board. you will benefit from all the things
that others suggested along the way. that is how boutique audio works.
it is the only new console i'm aware of that really has its own sound, and it is foxy
to look at........


pm me if you want to talk



be well


- jack



p.s. just looking at the new opening page at vintage king - with api/neve/tonelux/toft - none of them are anywhere near the beauty and universal
design that geoff found with lines and proportions of the daking console - all of the others have a far greater plastic content - sound is subjective and i am not familiar with those boards, so i can not say........
Man, the Daking has always been in my mind (I can't afford it now and actually just bought a console that I am very happy with...but you know how it is) but I am just worried that there isn't enough routing on it to really mix with.
Old 3rd September 2007
  #49
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GYang's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post

I have to add that I also find Geoff (and company) to be GREAT to work with.

Here are some (not very good) pics and a pdf of my config.

I have Daking console in view, too.
Pres are amazing indeed, still no first-hand experience.
Old 4th September 2007
  #50
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numrologst's Avatar
can anyone else comment on the reliability/build of the daking?
Old 4th September 2007
  #51
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
can anyone else comment on the reliability/build of the daking?

the ones i've been around needed an occasional knob or switch replacement; pot scratchiness/funkiness is a bit of an issue on the rack units as well. what everyone attests to, though, is geoff's responsiveness and willingness to do whatever it takes to make it right, pronto.

but imo that's a component quality issue; the build quality itself is fairly tank-like, just like on the rack units.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 4th September 2007
  #52
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
the ones i've been around needed an occasional knob or switch replacement.
speaking of which i don't really like the aluminium knobs. maybe some green trident-like ones or sim. ivory (bottom of the page), etc. ...

plastic: ALLPARTS guitar parts, bass parts, guitar amplifier parts

just thinkin'...
Old 5th September 2007
  #53
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robmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
can anyone else comment on the reliability/build of the daking?

Love it, won't work with out it !!!!!!! I just flew mine to Europe because I'm getting lots of work here and couldn't stand to be away from it. It made the trip in a crate, and powered right up tonight. I've never had any issues from a maintenance stand point. I bought half of my console used, and Geoff updated/fixed every module. In the course of that we found maybe two or three that were flakey. He took 'em and gave me replacements. I've also got 8 compressors - the bomb. As I said earlier in this thread, my dream console would have a daking comp on every channel. When Paul's board went up for sale I contemplated buying it and adding on to mine. I can't speak highly enough about Geoff and company. How many console designers show up at your studio to do the install ???? If I ave any complaints it would only be the metal bottom pans that cover the frame and wires. It's a little wack, but nothing that a drill and some screws won't fix
Old 5th September 2007
  #54
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
yeah... It's more than just the mechanicals of it...It's not unknown work that has to be done... It's recap, power supply work, replace a few pots and switches.

The big deal about the g is that it's not really going to fit in the new studio. My new room is much much much nicer than my old room, but the control room is much smaller. The G in there would be totally overwhelming.

Plus, I'm not really digging it as much as I used to.

So the SSL really has to go.

i totally understand getting rid of the ssl, totally.

seriously,you might look for an old quad-eight, ive worked on a coronado,as i understand they were very close to api's,but in situations a littl more versatile, both in function and sound....

if you can find them they are very good, still a bit under the radar,and in the coronado's case very good consoles with a pretty small footprint.
Old 5th September 2007
  #55
Lives for gear
 
themaidsroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
can anyone else comment on the reliability/build of the daking?
i think you should fly up here with a reel of tape or a firewire drive.......
as i have said, sonically, i believe it surpasses all of its competition
aethetically, it is in a league of its own.....
nothing will make your mind up like spending some
time with one.




be well


- jack
Old 25th September 2007
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Just a heads up... I have a 32 channel Daking 1112 for sale in the classifieds section.
Old 27th September 2007
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
prismtheory's Avatar
 

Why are you selling that? That's such a sweet board!
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