The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
PLEASE Mic this instrument Condenser Microphones
Old 19th August 2007
  #1
PLEASE Mic this instrument

Ive never heard one decent recording of this instrument.

If budget is no problem, What mics and what pres do you recommend for the bass and top end??

YouTube - Guruji TVG - Art of Mrdangam


thanks a mil
Old 19th August 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
poncival's Avatar
If I was confronted with this instrument (what is it called? I couldn't tell for sure from the you tube page) I would probably put a Sennheiser 421 on each end of it, miked kind of like a conga or a bongo, and then put a stereo pair of mics a few feet back as an "overhead" to capture the whole image of the sound at a spot where it sounds good coming out the speakers. I would use a Neumann SM-69 since I usually have one ready to go in the room.

I would probably try to capture the room as well, if I had time. I would use some Royer 121s maybe or some U-67's, just something to nicely capture the room, maybe with a little compression to accentuate the room.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that it seems to me that the more experienced the percussionist, the more ready they are to JAM right now and they don't seem to have a lot of patience for futzing around with microphones. Of course that's a huge generalization but I guess the point is that when THEY have the groove, you are supposed to catch it and not make them hang out trying to keep it fresh for 20 minutes while you see which mic sounds best...

With that in mind, have some mics ready to go and basically "in position" so you can move them to where he feels comfortable, but even when he's just sitting down for the first time, be sure to press record because you may catch something cool or "accidentally" find the perfect mic placement on the fly.

If you have a little time for experimenting, you may find that miking the shell in the middle (or if there is a "vent" hole) would add some body or "girth" to the overall sound. If you want to get really crazy you could try using a headphone as a mic and duct taping it to the shell (over the hole if there is one) and plugging that into a direct box and adding it as an additional track, you may get a LOT of bottom end out of that little vent hole if you mic it close enough. These things are in addition to the basic mic technique with the 421's and the SM69.

Good luck!
Old 19th August 2007
  #3
Gear Head
 
Scott 1/2 Normal's Avatar
 

Very simply - a good matched pair of first order cardioids in ORTF, roughly a meter out, pointing downward at the middle of the instrument at 45 degrees.

DPA 4021's, Sennheiser MKH40's, that kind of class.

It depends very much upon the room. You may also get good results with a spaced pair of omnis, beware they can be very unforgiving in a bad space.
Old 21st August 2007
  #4
Thanks guys for the in depth replies. -very helpful Yeah Poncival its called the Mridangam and there are carvings of it on temple walls dated as bein 6ooo years old.

Its the original Tabla, which got split in two!

But guys, the left side is one octave down from th eright and like the tabla has that "wobble wobble"sound, but is rather more dry and raspy.

Wont it need a diferent type of mic?

Any other mic/ pre suggestions would be gratefully received.

sali
Old 21st August 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
SF24....and a pre with some cajones
Old 21st August 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Audio Hombre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
SF24....and a pre with some cajones
+1 .
Old 13th May 2008
  #7
Ok guys

so Im gonna try a 421 on one side and an AKG 414 on the other. Acceptable? ....(Though I am wondering whether a ULS or an XLS would be better....)

But what would be a pre with "Cojones"?? I was thinking Brent Averill 1073 maybe or Aurora GTQ. Any suggestions?
Old 14th May 2008
  #8
_rd
Lives for gear
 
_rd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post

I watched the first ~40 seconds of this, then skipped to 2:33 and was SCARED. tutt
Old 14th May 2008
  #9
right...... thanks so much for your input
Old 14th May 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
Ok guys

so Im gonna try a 421 on one side and an AKG 414 on the other. Acceptable? ....(Though I am wondering whether a ULS or an XLS would be better....)
I'm with you. I'd want to mic each head to get any intricate finger work the player might do, and I'd want a close cardioid on the bass side for some proximity effect (you can always roll some of it off with EQ if it's too heavy). An additional mic or pair of more distant mics would be a good option as well if the room sounds good.
Old 14th May 2008
  #11
Here for the gear
 
DHfromcali's Avatar
 

look at what they did

This is another mridangam video, see how they recorded it...
YouTube - Trichy Sankuran
Old 15th May 2008
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHfromcali View Post
This is another mridangam video, see how they recorded it...
YouTube - Trichy Sankuran

MKh 40's right????? x 3

hhmmmm do you think they would have a more accurate/focused sound than the md 421? If I do go that route it would probably be the new 8040's which are smaller and are reported to be more musical

BUT Cmon guys - still no PRE suggestions.
Old 15th May 2008
  #13
Lives for gear
 
by-tor's Avatar
 

I recorded one of those once with 2 km184s and a ksm 32. Kind of a LCR kind of deal. Used the pres in the SSL 6000. Sounded good if I remember right. It was years ago. Oh it also went to 2 inch.
Old 15th May 2008
  #14
Gear Nut
 

i dont know what i would use but i would get as much stereo separation as possible and pan far left and right. that thing would be trippy with headphones
Old 15th May 2008
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by by-tor View Post
I recorded one of those once with 2 km184s and a ksm 32. Kind of a LCR kind of deal. Used the pres in the SSL 6000. Sounded good if I remember right. It was years ago. Oh it also went to 2 inch.
wow

any chance you can post up, or mail me a sample?
Old 15th May 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Svens's Avatar
 

A couple of years ago I recorded this instrument and had the same questions as you have now, but since the guys who play these kind of instruments know very well what they want to hear, they can help you a lot with placement and how it should sound.

Just ask them what they think and involve the musician as much as you can. They always choose performance over sound. We did a lot of experimenting back then: an ORTF (2 Schoeps MK21) at 4 feet away, a mic on both sides from the instruments about 1 or 2 feet away (also MK21's), and most important, a Schoeps BLM in the middle/front of the instrument, which we used for the low-end. All the mics were amped by either SSL 9000 pre's or Millennia's, or a combination, I'm not sure. In the end, we used all the mics in the mix. Forget about the ultrawide panning, this guy wanted to hear what I was hearing when watching him perform.

Would like to hear some samples too!

btw: If you visit some worldmusic festivals, you'd be surpised about the instruments people play
Old 15th May 2008
  #17
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svens View Post
Forget about the ultrawide panning, this guy wanted to hear what I was hearing when watching him perform.

right on. i totally meant in the right setting
Old 16th May 2008
  #18
thanks a lot Svens for sharing your experiences.

With the new sennheiser 8040's giving shoeps a run for their money in classical recordings according to some of th slutz, I think im gonna go for a stereo pair, supported by a 414uls. I will see during the sessions whether the 8040 or the 414 works best on the bass end. I'm expecting the 8040's to throw up a more detailed spectrum of the instrument (and beleve me it has umpteen colours) than my orginal idea of the md 421. Are you guys with me on that call???

ss
Old 21st May 2008
  #19
PRES********

TORN BETWEEN:

V72/55 with 48v
John hardy M1
GTQ2 Mhk III

i can only carry one. can anyone say which they feel might be best with the sennheiser 8040's for this instrument
Old 21st May 2008
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Svens's Avatar
 

Hi Soundseeker,

the musicianship, mic placement and vibe are far more important to me then a micpreamp. Offcourse you know what doesnt work for you, but with any of those three you cant go wrong. I'm an Millennia advocate, where I also love API preamps, just depends what it is you are using it for. And yes, I would prefer the 8040's over the 421 in this case, but if you have some time, try them both and see what happens.

Good luck!
Sven
Old 21st May 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Knastratt's Avatar
 

Off the top of my head - just abstracting, I'd use a pair of DPA's on each side panned fully apart and a RE20 or MD421 as a double on the bassy/wobbly side panned center. The RE 20/MD421 I'd cut a deep notch around 500 and rise it lots around 100-200. I would want to salvage as much bass as possible with that extra bass mic while trying to get rid of a bit of the boxiness.

Outstanding performances.

Thanks for sharing.

I do share the feeling that the pres are not the main issue in a situation like this.

Be well - Pär
Old 21st May 2008
  #22
Lives for gear
 
DeepSpace's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
What mics and what pres do you recommend for the bass and top end??
I would put it in a good semi-live room and put an R84 up close (about 8-12 ins away) and a 635A well back (approx 8 ft). I would run both mics through an AD2022.

I would adjust the mic placement to get the phase aligned 'til the sound was warm full and fat, with a bit of presence zing on the transients. Then I'd bring in a bit of side-chain comp with a 1176 to craft the tails.
Old 21st May 2008
  #23
thanks guys
darksky,
why is it necessary to get the mics phase alligned and how is it done?
Old 21st May 2008
  #24
Lives for gear
 
DeepSpace's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
darksky,
why is it necessary to get the mics phase alligned...
If the distance between the capsules of two mics is an odd multiple of half the wavelength of one of the significant frequencies (fundamental, harmonic or resonant) of the instrument, that frequency will be 180° out-of-phase in one microphone as compared to the other, and will therefore be cancelled when the signals from the two mics are summed. In that case, the summed sound will be thin and notched-sounding and the recording will lack depth and body (ie it will sound "small").

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
...and how is it done?
By moving one of the microphones with respect to the other, while listening to the summed sound (eg in headphones), you will be able to find positions that give the fullest and most satisfying sound (which will be where the phase is aligned for the fundamental, low-order harmonics and resonant freq/s of the instrument being recorded).
Old 21st May 2008
  #25
thanks man

hey its 1230 am there. go to bed sport
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
jnorman / So much gear, so little time
40
soundseeker / High end
0
mackie824 / High end
0
cl516 / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
0

Forum Jump
Forum Jump