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Thinking over going High End and upgrading ... Digital Converters
Old 18th August 2007
  #1
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
Thinking over going High End and need advice on upgrading ...

Heres the lowdown.....I'm running a digi02 and the converters and the clock off this thing for the past few years in the back of my parents non attchaed 2 gar garage(im 20) fully gutted, furnished etc (jantelis.com) for pics (it's was all i could afford then) business is starting to pickup and i'm looking to open a new studio new gear, new rooms etc etc.
Here the gear so far that im looking into purchasing...
Pro Tools HD 3 Acell- $14,000
192's

Converters/Clock
Apogee AD-16X- $3200
Big Ben ( do i even need a big ben if i have the ad-16x?)
What other clocks and converters can you guys recommend i know how much a difference having a great clock and solid converters make.


Outboard
Empirical Labs Distressor EL-8XM-$1530
Empirical Labs Fatso Jr. EL7 -$2250
Universal Audio LA-2A-$2900
Universal Audio 1176LN-$1800
Focusrite Red 3-$4700
Focusrite ISA 428-$1700
Transient Designer
True Systems Precision 8$2600 (main preamps)
I have used all of this gear in large studios and at friends studio and its what i like mostly and is personal preference in regards to what i wanna start the new spot.
Please let me know what you all think and recommendations are very welcome.

I think i smell a new loan coming on very soon..
Old 18th August 2007
  #2
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gainstages's Avatar
thats quite the list. wish i could afford to spend that kind of dough on an upgrade right now myself. i actually like all of the gear you mentioned, although i'd spend the money on the Red 3on something else. it's good, i just think that my personal tastes find other gear more appealing.

What about monitoring though? are you going to upgrade everything and then be stuck trying to use b-grade monitors? if so, i'd trim some of the gear on the budget and make sure you can hear the impact of all that gear.
Old 18th August 2007
  #3
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
I like my monitors very much, I use my Yamaha ns-10's with a sub, and mackie hr824's i may get another additional pair of s monitors but i do like the ones i use very much. Not so into genelecs etc. but will see about that.
Old 18th August 2007
  #4
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gainstages's Avatar
well, back to your converter/clocking question. I do believe that the AD16 has the same clocking chip as the big ben.

however - if you have multiple pieces of digital gear, I'd still go for a big ben to make sure the clocking is tight with everything.

what type of music or business are you doing?
Old 18th August 2007
  #5
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barryjohns's Avatar
 

First of all, buy everything used and cut those cost by at least a third if not in half. Converters, forget the Apogee and buy a Lynx Aurora 16. What about Mics, where are you there? Your Preamps are medicore. I can see them for tracking drums, however, you need something better for other stuffl. I would consider a loaded Lunchbox.
Old 18th August 2007
  #6
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lpkyer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Pro Tools HD 3 Acell- $14,000
192's
STOP
NOW

Buy a Powermac and a (2) Apogee Ensemble or (1) RME Fireface 800 + Apogee Rosetta 800 and use Logic, Samplitude or Cubase. Keep your 002 for transfering files from PT to your rig. (Which probably wont happen more than twice a year)



Quote:
Outboard
Empirical Labs Distressor EL-8XM-$1530
Empirical Labs Fatso Jr. EL7 -$2250
Transient Designer
Keep those
Add:

comps
Purple MC77
Tubetech CL-1B
Vintage Designs CL1

FX
Kurzweil Rumour
Eventide H3000
1000$ in guitar pedals


Pres & EQ
(4) API 521 into lunchbox
A Designs Pacifica
Chandler TG2
Aurora Audio gtq2
A Designs Hammer EQ (pure hype right here hahaha)
(2 )A Designs EM-PEQ into lunchbox
Toft Audio ATB-24

Mics
Wunder CM7
Telefunken M16
SM7B
old 421s, 441s
Neumann KM84
Royer R121 pair
AEA R92
Old 18th August 2007
  #7
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
Im in middle of making up a mic list. also the recommendations so far have been great thanks alot guys. I will mostly be producing/recording pop/rock bands but the spot will be open to all artists. All the plans are in the works im hoping within a year to get things started. In planning mode right now.
Old 18th August 2007
  #8
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpkyer View Post
STOP
NOW

Buy a Powermac and a (2) Apogee Ensemble or (1) RME Fireface 800 + Apogee Rosetta 800 and use Logic, Samplitude or Cubase. Keep your 002 for transfering files from PT to your rig. (Which probably wont happen more than twice a year)



Keep those
Add:

comps
Purple MC77
Tubetech CL-1B
Vintage Designs CL1

FX
Kurzweil Rumour
Eventide H3000
1000$ in guitar pedals


Pres & EQ
(4) API 521 into lunchbox
A Designs Pacifica
Chandler TG2
Aurora Audio gtq2
A Designs Hammer EQ (pure hype right here hahaha)
(2 )A Designs EM-PEQ into lunchbox
Toft Audio ATB-24

Mics
Wunder CM7
Telefunken M16
SM7B
old 421s, 441s
Neumann KM84
Royer R121 pair
AEA R92

All the gear sounds great... but i'm a pro tools guy i own logic but dont favour it for tracking live bands and editing. i allready own powerpc g5 that i run pro tools and logic off of. I was considering about a year ago switching to cubase/nuendo a producer i know that does major records uses nuendo and swears by it. i use beat detective in pro tools to edit drums but other than that i guess thats the one main thing i really on with pro tools . So i wouldn't mind re mastering another program to save cash, plus i know that cubase is way more fleixable as far as user settings etc etc. but pro tools is unfortanelty the industry standard. But my system has been really buggy as of late. What kinda mullah would i save by going with a kick ass cubase/apogee/rme etc system?
Old 19th August 2007
  #9
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lpkyer's Avatar
 

Industry standard, well.....How much will it affect your "clientele"? Will you lose a lot of customers? Whats bugs me is the 14 000$ HD card...what will they be worth in 5 years?
Old 19th August 2007
  #10
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

So are we at the monthly quota for the amount of these posts yet? We've gotta be close.
Old 19th August 2007
  #11
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

If you're getting an ad16x you don't need the 192's. Add the x-hd card to interface directly with protools. And yes, the ad16x uses the same c777 clock as the big ben.
Old 19th August 2007
  #12
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sonicdefault's Avatar
I agree with lypkyer about the HD swap. Also, as an owner of Red and ISA units, I'd say consider swapping the Red 3 and ISA 428 to (1) Red 1 (or Red 8) and (2) Isa 430s- I think you'd be much happier.



-SD
Old 19th August 2007
  #13
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Definitely stick with protools for rock bands, an Hd 3 Accel discounted should be around $11,000. I would wait until after AES and Namm because that is when they might announce a new version, it has been over 5 years and long overdue. I would get some kind of controller for it, maybe the Control 24 or a used procontrol or even a Command 8 or Mackie controller. Jump on the Massive Pack 6 that digidesign is offering right now to get alot of nice plugins for cheap.

If you are tracking drums, bass, guitars, I would highly recommend an API 3124(4 mic pres) for under $2,500. Also one or two Neve flavored pres for Vocals and everything else(Neve, Great River, BAE, Chandler LTD-1, etc...)
Old 20th August 2007
  #14
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
Thanks for all the great input guys!! im currently tweaking my list and will def buy some of the gear used to help defray costs.
Old 20th August 2007
  #15
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MarkJ's Avatar
 

probably wanna add on the da16 if your gonna be using outboard.

prices seem a bit high, especially if your buying it all together.
Old 20th August 2007
  #16
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Are people not recording with you because you don't have a certain piece of gear? Or do you just want to improve your sound quality? If you are seriously considering upgrading your setup, I would encourage you to look around at other studios in your area and see what they are running.

Also, I don't see your current list as a good way to spend your money for your situation (based on the limited information I have). You should really talk to a real studio consultant about this. A qualified professional that can help you make decisions based off your needs.... there's only so much information you can take from anonymous people on the internet... It shouldn't be too hard to find some one like that.
Old 20th August 2007
  #17
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stagefright13's Avatar
 

Don't blow the money if it is credit!!! Been there and done it CASH rules then you can pocket the money from the clients. However small that will be. But you will have no overhead. Am about to pay my debt next week after a long time coming.

It was alot harder to pay it off than I thought. 1k seemed easy...

27k way harder. I made NO money recording for years! Because of the debt. Had to work 2 jobs. But Now I can because I paid ALL the vultures! And it is not worth spending the years to pay it. If you are are in a hurry send your stuff to me and I will mix it for you.

But Mastering is on you...
Old 20th August 2007
  #18
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stagefright13 View Post
Don't blow the money if it is credit!!! Been there and done it CASH rules then you can pocket the money from the clients. However small that will be. But you will have no overhead. Am about to pay my debt next week after a long time coming.
Good advice. Low overhead is important for a new studio.
Old 20th August 2007
  #19
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stagefright13's Avatar
 

And this may be Unsluty but the best advice of all is to spend a few bucks across the band and do a REAL studio. trust me it is worth it. This stuff can't be done at home.

And you can test out everything and be forever enlightened. And have a great sound also. And musicians can be musicians. They can let go of the technicals and be be free to perform. Let the producer wave his hands! And listen to what he says... (Sometimes)
Old 20th August 2007
  #20
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont View Post
Good advice. Low overhead is important for a new studio.
And that from a guy that sells gear!! Listen up! Big debt will clobber a producer/engineer trying to get established.
Old 20th August 2007
  #21
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stagefright13's Avatar
 

oops
Old 21st August 2007
  #22
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
Thanks for the response tony very wise of you. I'm gonna be upgrading more to improve the sound sonicly etc. ive been doing well with clients now as is ..with the gear im using but im just not happy with the gear overall and want to upgrade. Ive been in and worked in dozens of smaller project studios and a few top commerical studios as well so i know whats being used in major facilties , ive tired out a great amount of gear also. The list i posted was a quick thing i put together a few months ago late night deal and i thought id post it to see what people would add to it. Some of it i will def be getting of that list but most of the gear that will be for the new studio isnt on that(yet) i have yet to put together a full list with everything from a-z . I agree with you on loans and putting things on credit. im in middle of paying of a 30 grand loan non studio related. As per used gear what would you say is my best shot? ebay? craigslist etc

Thanks guys.

Jake-
Old 21st August 2007
  #23
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Another thing to think about when upgrading is will your clients be cool with it?

Obviously if you go blow 30k on a bunch of gear your rates will have to go up. Ive seen guys who do a lot of cheap (and good) recordings that are booked solid, upgrade a bunch of equipment, raise their rates, and end up with half the bookings. They did better financially with less equipment..

Some people dont want quality, they want good for the price. Make sure your clients want you to upgrade.

Thats the beauty of upgrading slowly over a long period of time is that you can gradually build better paying clients and raise your rates slowly.

If it were me I'd buy a used HD 3 setup (with good plugs) with an aurora 16 and an api 3124 and hold on to the rest of your money. This way you'll have a decent tracking chain for all your important tracks and a good starting point to build a studio from as you build better clientel.
Old 22nd August 2007
  #24
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post
Another thing to think about when upgrading is will your clients be cool with it?

Obviously if you go blow 30k on a bunch of gear your rates will have to go up. Ive seen guys who do a lot of cheap (and good) recordings that are booked solid, upgrade a bunch of equipment, raise their rates, and end up with half the bookings. They did better financially with less equipment..

Some people dont want quality, they want good for the price. Make sure your clients want you to upgrade.

Thats the beauty of upgrading slowly over a long period of time is that you can gradually build better paying clients and raise your rates slowly.

If it were me I'd buy a used HD 3 setup (with good plugs) with an aurora 16 and an api 3124 and hold on to the rest of your money. This way you'll have a decent tracking chain for all your important tracks and a good starting point to build a studio from as you build better clientel.

You make a great point. The client im going after and would like to build to is indie/major label stuff producing/engineering etc.
Old 5th March 2008
  #25
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smartalek's Avatar
 

If you use Pro Tools HD at this point in time, i dont care if you have 10 platinum records under your belt, you're a flat out fool. You clearly have no concept of creativity, or self respect for that matter. But i guess thats what HD does to people, they have you by the balls and you know it.

boo hoo.

my two lincolns.

DONT BUY HD!!! You could have much more fun wiping your ass with 20,000 single dollars.

And for all you "big time" studio producers and engineers who are going to disagree with me. I will cut you off at this juncture and say STOP relying on plugins to tweak your sound, stop using sound replacer, and have some passion for what you do. Take the time to do it right and be proud of it. Im utterly sick of hearing all this auto tuned, over produced, sound replaced, artificial and compressed garbage, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Old 5th March 2008
  #26
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

ya...i agreed. Cash rules.

Try not to go into debt just to make good music.
Old 5th March 2008
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalek View Post
If you use Pro Tools HD at this point in time, i dont care if you have 10 platinum records under your belt, you're a flat out fool. You clearly have no concept of creativity, or self respect for that matter. But i guess thats what HD does to people, they have you by the balls and you know it.

boo hoo..
interesting.
so what set up do you use to keep it creative and artistic?
Old 5th March 2008
  #28
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TheSweetener's Avatar
 

I'd say take Cubase to be part of the avantgarde (and to save money) .

(if you worry about your coolness, you might wanna take Nuendo instead. Does the same thing for more money but you don't need to be ashamed on public forums )
Old 5th March 2008
  #29
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vernier's Avatar
HD is a good call, but I'd go for different outboard ...some funky tube gear, not Focusrite etc.
Old 5th March 2008
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smartalek View Post
If you use Pro Tools HD at this point in time, i dont care if you have 10 platinum records under your belt, you're a flat out fool. You clearly have no concept of creativity, or self respect for that matter. But i guess thats what HD does to people, they have you by the balls and you know it.

boo hoo.

my two lincolns.

DONT BUY HD!!! You could have much more fun wiping your ass with 20,000 single dollars.

And for all you "big time" studio producers and engineers who are going to disagree with me. I will cut you off at this juncture and say STOP relying on plugins to tweak your sound, stop using sound replacer, and have some passion for what you do. Take the time to do it right and be proud of it. Im utterly sick of hearing all this auto tuned, over produced, sound replaced, artificial and compressed garbage, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Did you dig up this old post just to say that?
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