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Anyone using DAV BG1 for vocals? Condenser Microphones
Old 17th August 2007
  #1
Here for the gear
 
rank's Avatar
 

Anyone using DAV BG1 for vocals?

Is there anybody outthere using the BG1 for vocals? What's your experience? Is it larger than life? What mic do you use? What compressor and/or eq? If you do not think BG1 is good for vocals what would be a good complement to it that does that larger than life vocal image?

AND!!!

What do you think is most important for getting a big vocal sound: the preamp, the mic or a good eq?

(I am asking this because after all the tests and comparisons I have done I got the impression that the differences between all that high end stuff is pretty subtle - not to say small, more or less to be neglected - and probably - that's my guess - there is nothing you couldn't compensate with a good eq.)
Old 17th August 2007
  #2
Gear Nut
 
jackrabbit's Avatar
 

For the past 2 weeks, i've probably done 80 vocal tracks as follows:
Male vocalist in room with reflection filter - AT4060 - DAVBG1 with lowcut filter engaged- MC76 - Mytek 96 a/d. EQ is either not needed, or more usually is done in the box. All this is for rock male vocals. Im getting what i would call big vocal sounds for these tracks, vocals that cut through and stay big when there are layered guitars and lots of loud noise.

The DAV does what it always does - it adds a sense of depth and a larger than life quality, and at the same time stays relatively true to the source. Being a relatively clean preamp, you can see i've opted for adding "colour" elsewhere in the chain. I like things this way, and, more to the point, this was the least expensive way to get the sound i was looking for with the most flexibility. Each peice of gear i listed up there was 1k or less, and i found the DAV the most economical way to get "that" sound.

I've gotten each peice in the chain, one by one, and have had a good amount of time to get to know them and what they bring to the table. Comparing my experience thus far to what i've read online, the only conclusion i can draw is that assessments of what is a subtle effect on the sound, and what is a huge change, is totally subjective.

I recently read a thread where "Thrillfactor" summed up things in the most accurate way that i could relate to with my own personal experience: He said "I totally understand but if there was one piece of gear that would improve a mixes dimension, depth or warmth we would all be tripping over ourselves to get it. There isn't one piece of gear that improves all those things at once. Its usually a combination of a couple of things applied by your talents(how you hear things in you head basically) that contributes to these things."


So basically, the performance i can get out of my vocalist (which relates to preproduction, room vibe, and monitor mix), the angle of the mic, distance and placment within the reflectionfilter (i guess that qualifies as my room treament), gain staging within the hardware chain, and how im mixing those vocals, i would all regard as equal importance.

hope that helps....
Old 30th August 2007
  #3
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rank's Avatar
 

thanks a lot jackrabbit!

Any more people outthere having experiences with DAV BG1 for Vocals?
Old 31st August 2007
  #4
Gear Addict
 

I sure hope the Rabbit is right ... I just ordered a BG1U 10 minutes ago and expect it by the middle of next week.

The idea I have caught on to was getting a clean signal and then applying effects and EQ later in the chain. I will soon have plugins to do a nice job, just need to get the Powercore Express I bought last week to work properly (aaarrhhhgg), then I will use my Oxford plugins, Character and Vocal Enhancer plus UAD-1 compressors to get the sound ... I hope.
Old 31st August 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

Hi jackrabbit,

your one of the reasons I went to get the DAV. Thanks for supporting it!

And I'm also agreeing with you that the two most important factors of getting a good sounding recording is

#1 Great song
#2 Great performance

(3. Mixing and arrangement. How well everything sits in a mix.)

A good preamp should be there just to help you not to think too much about the gear, so that you can be concentrating to capture a great song and a great performance. But this board is about gearsluts. So...
Old 8th September 2007
  #6
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whereisbkp's Avatar
 

i just received my new DAV BG-1
tried it on acoustic guitar and its amazing...big, clear, sweet.
super creamy with my Oktava MK012's
and i love the hi pass filter.
plan on trying it on vox later tonite.

now i want more channels of DAV!!!

Old 8th September 2007
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Still waiting for my BG1U. DHL tried to deliver 4 days ago, but they didn't even leave a note, or perhaps tried to deliver at a wrong address. I always have problems with DHL. Once they left a Soundelux mic on my doorstep all day for anyone in the street to pick up.

It would have been nice testing my new DAV GB1U this weekend, but no ...

Two weeks ago I got a Powercore Express, and all the newer plugins don't work. TC is working on it, maybe a wrong encryption on my card. Not to mention all the malfunctioning software I have bought recently.
Old 8th September 2007
  #8
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Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whereisbkp View Post
i just received my new DAV BG-1
tried it on acoustic guitar and its amazing...big, clear, sweet.
super creamy with my Oktava MK012's
and i love the hi pass filter.
plan on trying it on vox later tonite.

now i want more channels of DAV!!!

i got mine two days ago. And yesterday I used it for overheads and it sounded so frigging good. I quickly tried it on vox and I really liked what I heard. I wish I had a few more channels to cover the snare and bass drum. I'm probably going all the way for DAV... 8chnls would be awesome..
Old 8th September 2007
  #9
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Bierce85's Avatar
 

the bg-8 looks like an amazing value. 8 channels.. I emailed DAV and they said the price for me here in Rhode Island would be $2200! Seems like a perfect "main" pre or "front end"
Old 8th September 2007
  #10
Here for the gear
 
rank's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whereisbkp View Post
plan on trying it on vox later tonite.

so how did you like it on vox? what mics did you try out?
Old 8th September 2007
  #11
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Plush's Avatar
Anyone using DAV BG1 for vocals?

Always!
Old 8th September 2007
  #12
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whereisbkp's Avatar
 

my first impression on the bg-1 for my vocals is that its a bit transparent for me.
i would generally prefer something a bit thicker on my vox...but thats just me.
i was using a pearlman tube mic and a Studio Projects C1

that said, the BG-1 rocks and i want more channels of DAV!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rank View Post
so how did you like it on vox? what mics did you try out?
Old 9th September 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Tom Hakala's Avatar
 

one word about the RNP... actually three words:

NOISY
NOISY
NOISY

damn... I was recording drums today and I had 4 channels of RNP, and two FF400 stock pres and DAV. DAV is very quiet, RME is nice too, but I was really disappointed how noisy RNP actually was

I will sell my RNP and get as many channels of dav as possible. I'm more that pleased with it. The more I use the DAV the less I wanna use the RNP. GIVE ME MORE DAV.
Old 11th September 2007
  #14
Here for the gear
 
rank's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Always!
hi plush. i noticed you're a great worshipper of the dav. you do only classical music is that right? what kind of vocals do you record with the bg1? what mics do you use? have you ever tried the dav comp/limiter? thanks!
Old 13th September 2007
  #15
Gear Addict
 

Finally got my BG1U after DHL had messed up delivery severely, wrong delivery dates, wrong addresses, 4 attempts before succes, 9 days of delay ...

Anyway, I have made my first experiments just singing into a U195 sitting in front of the DAW experimenting with levels etc. This, of course, is not ideal. So my first impression should be judged with caution. I do think the BG1 tends to sound better than the stock preamps in my Fireface 800, but the difference is not huge. In fact, smaller changes in the mic position seems more important for the result.

Any of you using Fireface, should the input be set to +4mV or -10dB? The latter sounds best to me and makes the red over LED correpond with the Fireface mixer. But I have also noted that "over" on the DAV corresponds to +18dB and there is still room up to +29dB before clipping. How should I use this to get the best results? No red light ever on the DAV, or do you accept an occasional one?
Old 14th September 2007
  #16
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dubrichie's Avatar
ive got both an FF800 and a BG1.

i suggest +4dBu as the input gain setting, aince the DAV, like most other professional audio equipment, is calibrated to the standard +4dBu operating level.

but, by all means experiment with both the -10dBV and Lo Gain settings on the FF.

the DAV is a very nice preamp. i use it together with Daking and Wunder and it is certainly a sound that i am glad to have around.

i love it for drum overheads or room mics. it hasn't sounded anything but pretty damn good on anything yet.

acoustic guitar is also nice through the DAV preamps. i like the character of its transient response and the way it conveys space. it does a certain realism, a slightly nicer reality, without being loud and proud about it. it is well balanced altogether.

it is leaps and bounds better than the preamps in the FF800. a great piece of gear itself, besides the preamps.
Old 14th September 2007
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Trying to figure this out ...

When the red LED lights on the BG1 you still have 11dB headroom before clipping. Is that so? So if this happens about 11 dB below the level where Fireface gives a red "over" signal I should be okay?

I heard there are some special mods for BG1 for Fireface users. What are they?

At +4mV I get a weak signal. This is particurly a problem because I use direct monitoring through the Fireface to deal with latency during recording. Getting only a weak monitor signal I have to make adjustments all the time when switching between recording and listening to the results.
Old 14th September 2007
  #18
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Flying_Dutchman's Avatar
 

The DAV is a good preamp imao, but its kind of dark. This can help you when using a mic that has got many hf content, but in the most case i think you need to open the top end. When u use a mic thats dark too, i think i wont be the result you want.

For me the most important thing is the mic than the preamp than the compressor than the eq, if talking about no-equipment related things its the performacne, than the room and than the others. If you choose the right first 5, you might not need an eq.

I really depends on the artists performance which combination´s the best.
For a standard setup to purchase i would get sth that is in the middle.

Larger than life than often is a question of reverb, delays and harmonizers, too...
Old 14th September 2007
  #19
Gear Addict
 

I got a response from Mick:

use the -10dB.
The red over led is set at +18 dB purely to indicate that you are "over" in
your fireface or other interface, most interfaces clip at +18.
all of my amps actually clip at +29dB so you have plenty of headroom.
regards
Mick

However, I have also done some experimenting myself. Using a 440hz pure sine wave through a speaker and recording this through the BG1U, I can see the red light turn on at -7.5 dB in the Fireface Mixer, that's using +4mV. So there should be plenty of headroom.

To check that I increased volume to just below 0 dB and took a look at the sine wave recorded. It was completely intact. But once you reach 0 dB it becomes clipped. So with the DAV, even with red light on, there is no problem as long as the Fireface don't reach 0 dB and starts clipping.
Old 14th September 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 
whereisbkp's Avatar
 

just to update my last post,
i used my DAV on female background vocals last night and i was really impressed.
i got the best results with a Gefell MT71S

cheers,
brian
Old 14th September 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 

anyone here used it with a u87 for vocals.......currently have a tla 5051......never impressed with the sound....always sounds small and lacking in..........I'm struggling to define my malcontent here..............lacking in soul, vibe, realness.....I just don't think it captures a performance adequately. Does the dav/u87?
Old 15th September 2007
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombuur View Post
Finally got my BG1U after DHL had messed up delivery severely, wrong delivery dates, wrong addresses, 4 attempts before succes, 9 days of delay ...

Anyway, I have made my first experiments just singing into a U195 sitting in front of the DAW experimenting with levels etc. This, of course, is not ideal. So my first impression should be judged with caution. I do think the BG1 tends to sound better than the stock preamps in my Fireface 800, but the difference is not huge. In fact, smaller changes in the mic position seems more important for the result.

Any of you using Fireface, should the input be set to +4mV or -10dB? The latter sounds best to me and makes the red over LED correpond with the Fireface mixer. But I have also noted that "over" on the DAV corresponds to +18dB and there is still room up to +29dB before clipping. How should I use this to get the best results? No red light ever on the DAV, or do you accept an occasional one?
What was the rough price on the BG1U with shipping (or whatever DHL does)?
Old 15th September 2007
  #23
Gear Addict
 

I bought my BG1U through German eBay from rack-runner costing 895 Euro plus 20 Euro for shipping to Denmark, immediate delivery - I couldnt know DHL would mess up so badly when making my decission.

Mick wanted 985 Euro including shipping to Denmark. So well, I only saved 80 Euro, but his estimated delivery time was at least 2 weeks.

Mick prices probably include Danish sales tax (25%) whereas German sales tax was included in the other (19%). But I am not sure, and there are a lot of complicated rules to explain.

Anyway, shipping outside Europe is another story, but then you don't pay our huge sales taxes.
Old 15th September 2007
  #24
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Plush's Avatar
"The DAV Electronics Broadhurst Gardens No. 1 is the best mic amp in the world." (sm)
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