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The New API 1608 Console Consoles
Old 30th August 2007
  #241
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post
YES - the 1608 will ship with 12 550A's in the EQ section - not 550B's as shown in the prototype pictures. WHY?? - we didn't have 12 550A's in the factory when we loaded her up.
Thanks for that. Am I still aloud to be confused, though? If you go by this (the same info on your site too)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rack-N-Roll View Post
Module Deletion: (per module @ 85% of Retail)
550A(g): MSRP $1195 - Delete $1016
560: MSRP $795 - Delete $676
548B: MSRP $1195 - Delete $1016
The price listed above for the 550A is clearly the MSRP of a 550B. If 550A's are going in, should it then really read:

550A(g): MSRP $1695 - Delete $1441???

$1441 being 85% of the 550A MSRP? I'm sorry for busting your b***s on this. I'm just trying to get it to make sense. At 85% MSRP, the difference between 12 550As and 12 550Bs is $5100...not chump change really...and a little confusing (for me, anyway).


Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post
Automation.
Unfair to comment here as the details are still in the works.
Sounds good! A tight automation package would pretty much make this a done deal for me. Faders, switches...ah, just throw in recall too.! Even just snapshot over USB a la Neve's 8816. Nice to dream...


Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post
We will post a few shots of the expander as we get it loaded up just for the GS cast. Keep an eye on the link we posted before.
Can't wait!!! Thanks for the heads up.

Last one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post
Alright you guys - here are some answers to a few of the most common questions and comments:
There's one other question I've asked a couple of times, and I know thethrillfactor asked it too. Group/Sub output faders. Can/will they exist and be automatable too? I'll get a few others to ask this too if that will turn this into a common question.heh

Thats it. Thanks and good night.
Old 30th August 2007
  #242
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post
Mic pre - No mic pre.
Raal, we went around at length on whether to make the input module without a mic pre and have the pre available as an option, have the pre as a plug-on board, have no pre's, etc. The reality is - and Vin-gear got it right - there is little difference in the FINAL cost of the input module with or without the mic pre.
thanks Sez! i kinda figured as much.

at any rate if suggestions are welcome:

1) when automation is available, if faders could follow DAW moves that would be the ****e.
2) don't know if stereo channels are feasible but this could save some space.
3) for those that don't need a center facilities section a 16 fader only version... maybe the expander could do this?

the thing is beautiful as is though. congrats. see youz guys at AES!
Old 31st August 2007
  #243
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

OK...here I go again. Just searching around on-line and found this on the VintageKing | API 1608 web page, down near the bottom. If it's not cool to copy this here, please just delete this post, mods.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question 1:
"Dealing with the 1608, what is balanced and not balanced, is there Transformers on all I/O and what I/O doesn't have transformers?"

Answer:
  • *Mic pre in: transformer balanced
  • Line in: active balanced discrete API 2520 amplifier
  • Pre-amp out transformer balanced
  • Eq in is EQ dependant(the 1608 motherboards are setup to accept a 2510 balancing amp card which is NOT stock, as you would only want them if your eq is unbalanced in): 560 is balanced, 550a is unbalanced, 550b is unbalanced.
  • EQ out: transformer balanced
  • Insert return: active balanced discrete API 2510 amplifier
  • Direct out: transformer balanced
  • Multi Bus Outs: transformer balanced
  • Multi Bus to PGM Bus assign: Passive resistor balanced assign
  • PGM summing amp outs: transformer balanced
  • PGM Insert returns: active balanced discrete API 2510 amplifier
  • PGM Outs: Transformer balanced
  • Echo Sends: transformer balanced
  • Echo Returns: active balanced discrete API 2510 amplifier
  • CR outs: Transformer balanced
  • Oscillator out: active balanced output
*fixed typo that was on VK site.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soooo...calling API tech-savy folk here. Was point number 4 above the same on 1604's too? I'm a little surprised by this. Again, I have NO experience on an API console...just a vast array of 500 series modules and 3124's.

I really thought all 500 series modules, regardless of manufacturer, were built to the same specs. Does this mean we'll have to note which modules we own have balanced and which have un-balanced inputs and plan our layout ahead of time to include the 2510's on certain channels? That kinda takes the mod out of modular system, no?

Hmmmmm...the same would ring true for the eight extra slots then too, yes? I didn't see this coming. Why does a lunchbox or rack not care what you throw at it? Any insight would be great.

Cheers.
Old 31st August 2007
  #244
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What would be the **** automationwise is if there were a virtual mixer in ProTools that looked like the ProTools mixer but was actaually referring to console automation and leaving ProTools outputs at unity..
Old 31st August 2007
  #245
Gear Maniac
 
Allen Wrench's Avatar
 

I would love to hear a shoot out between ToneLux and this thing. A big thing to remember is that the owner of Tonelux actually, hands on DESIGNED the API Vision. When he did Tonelux he went BEYOND the obvious limitations of API.

FOR ME what totally makes Tonelux the obvious choice is the versatility. You can buy a TL 8 channel line mixer for f u c k ing $ 3,200.00 … that can expand to BIGGER than the largest Vision or what ever the hell you want. And it’s the SAME signal path. That’s real world value and performance. How many ‘starting out’ and ‘home studio’ guys could afford a $ 3,200 WORLD CLASS line mixer? EVERYONE. How many people can shell out $ 50k for a limited 16 channel? I seriously doubt they’ll even sell 20 of these world wide.

What’s funny to me is that everyone that says this 1608 is such a great value and price… says, two sentences later, that it’s out of their budget! DUH. I’m looking forward to checking it out at AES, but come on guys… none of you are going to buy one of these.

API needs to innovate and deal with the future of the audio industry.


- ALLEN WRENCH –
international superstar
Old 31st August 2007
  #246
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by API Sez... View Post
Mic pre - No mic pre.
Raal, we went around at length on whether to make the input module without a mic pre and have the pre available as an option, have the pre as a plug-on board, have no pre's, etc. The reality is - and Vin-gear got it right - there is little difference in the FINAL cost of the input module with or without the mic pre. That is not to say the mic pre doesn't cost anything - it is just that when you commit build a significant number of anything, in this case input strips, the TOTAL cost of the module after board stuffing, assembly, metalwork and knobs - a few more or less parts do not impact the cost that much. Additionally, we found that designing a plug-on daughter board for the mic pre that made it optional, significantly increased the total price of the input strip - making it unreasonable in our opinion.

.

Thanks for all this info. I gotta tell you though, this console is driving me near insane. lol.

I think it is brilliant in almost every aspect... but one. This console can not really be used properly in a band tracking setup because it does not allow a way to properly monitor tape returns.

I mean... this thing has ALL the right input and outputs. It's clearly ready for a great patch bay. But in light of what you wrote above, about how adding a pre-amp almost cost you nothing.... I just want to beat my head against the wall as I ask; "Then WHY in the world did you not include an extra line amp so that tape returns could be monitored "in line"?!?!?!?!?!?!??!"

I mean... come on? Legacy users monitor tape in "split" style. Legacy Plus users montior in "in line" style. 1608 users will have to monitor through their DAW or other very expensive console?

This is just a real serious concept flaw in my humble opinion, and I guess it's too late to do anything about it. If this desk just had an inline monitor section with: knob for level, knob for pan, switch for solo and switch for mute... this desk would be just about complete. Allow that path to be "flipped" so the knob is tape send level and the "big" fader/pan is tape return, and then give us an automation package that will have a true motorised audio fader (not a VCA) that disgengages and is run by a 2nd motor in DAW control mode, and not only is it complete but I am ready to figure out how to finance said console. As it is, I fear it just falls WAY too far in the middle of the specific needs of the industry for a $50,000+ desk.

The 32 channel limit makes it unfeasable for many of us to add enough channels to work in split mode (I generally need 18 to 24 channels to track a band), and thus the console is really just not gonna make tracking sessions go smoothly with great ergonomics and workflow.

So.... sorry to be so negative. I really think it's beautiful. And for those that just need a great front end, that can also be used for summing when mixing... this could be really cool. I just think you guys are gonna miss a lot of sales because of the lack of tape return monitoring.

Now.... since you are here.

About the pre-amps. Can you clarify what pre-amp this is? Is this the same preamp that is in your current 512? Is this the pre-amp that is in the 3124 (which I can't tell apart from the 512 visually, or sonically)? Or... is this a true recreation of the original 312 preamp that we all love so much?

Sorry again for the frustrated post (I love API!)... but thanks in advance for your info.
Old 31st August 2007
  #247
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
I would love to hear a shoot out between ToneLux and this thing. A big thing to remember is that the owner of Tonelux actually, hands on DESIGNED the API Vision. When he did Tonelux he went BEYOND the obvious limitations of API.
True, re: the Vision and potentially an advantage to a designer. In SOME ways the TX does NOT go ""BEYOND the obvious limitations of API" See below.

Quote:
FOR ME what totally makes Tonelux the obvious choice is the versatility. You can buy a TL 8 channel line mixer for f u c k ing $ 3,200.00 …that can expand to BIGGER than the largest Vision or what ever the hell you want. And it’s the SAME signal path. That’s real world value and performance. How many ‘starting out’ and ‘home studio’ guys could afford a $ 3,200 WORLD CLASS line mixer? EVERYONE. How many people can shell out $ 50k for a limited 16 channel? I seriously doubt they’ll even sell 20 of these world wide.
For you (and MANY others) the modular approach by TX helps make it a choice. But let's be real here....while you can expand the TX to as many (or more) inputs than any vision ever made; show me a a 16 or 24 buss TX. Or one with 8-12 sends. Unless Paul has added a lot to the line/design I don't see this as practical or possible.

Care to place a wage on the selling of 20 1608s worldwide?

Quote:
What’s funny to me is that everyone that says this 1608 is such a great value and price… says, two sentences later, that it’s out of their budget! DUH. I’m looking forward to checking it out at AES, but come on guys… none of you are going to buy one of these.
I think you are right re: many of the critics of both TX and this new API as far as "putting up or shutting up". Everyone wants everything, but who is actually going lay down the cash? Although I knew the API was coming and spent a lot of time looking at TX, I bought a Daking. I think got more of the functionality *I* needed for each $ than I could with either building a TX or waiting on the 1608. But I may still add a TX rack as a "sidecar".

Quote:
API needs to innovate and deal with the future of the audio industry.
Hard to argue with.

- ALLEN WRENCH –
international superstar[/QUOTE]
Old 31st August 2007
  #248
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

How much is the option where the meters spit out $100 bills every hour?
Old 31st August 2007
  #249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Wrench View Post
I would love to hear a shoot out between ToneLux and this thing. A big thing to remember is that the owner of Tonelux actually, hands on DESIGNED the API Vision. When he did Tonelux he went BEYOND the obvious limitations of API.

FOR ME what totally makes Tonelux the obvious choice is the versatility. You can buy a TL 8 channel line mixer for f u c k ing $ 3,200.00 … that can expand to BIGGER than the largest Vision or what ever the hell you want. And it’s the SAME signal path. That’s real world value and performance. How many ‘starting out’ and ‘home studio’ guys could afford a $ 3,200 WORLD CLASS line mixer? EVERYONE. How many people can shell out $ 50k for a limited 16 channel? I seriously doubt they’ll even sell 20 of these world wide.

What’s funny to me is that everyone that says this 1608 is such a great value and price… says, two sentences later, that it’s out of their budget! DUH. I’m looking forward to checking it out at AES, but come on guys… none of you are going to buy one of these.

API needs to innovate and deal with the future of the audio industry.


- ALLEN WRENCH –
international superstar
WORD!

heh

I have been sort of following this thread and what seems odd to me is the fact that VERY few folks have used this new board have they? People are falling all over each other because it is the greatest thing in the audio world. Come on guys very few people have even heard it yet.

I am just shocked that so many people jump up an down on the backs of folks around here for not "listening before they make a purchase" and "you got to try it in your own studio" then this board comes up and all we have are photos yet people are already basing their studios around it? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Couple that with the fact that something like the Tonelux IS already a proven system with a proven track record and it is highly configurable seems to make this API solution less attractive... The Tonelux makes more sense in today's market to me, so much so that I purchased one and have not looked back. In the end I will have a system that fits my exact needs for less than this new API offering.

And I am not putting the 1608 down, it might rock but 1) there is no guarantee that it will sound good, companies like Neve and API have put out duds before and 2) it just does not seem to fit the business model of many of today's studios with shrinking budgets and specialized needs.
Old 31st August 2007
  #250
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andsonic's Avatar
 

API Signal Flow

@Crypticglobe

I was looking at the pix that API provided. It looks like there's an insert after the pre and after the EQ. That looks to me like the flow of a SSL aws900. Not perfect for tracking, but definitely workable.

If the console automation can be used as DAW control then we have something interesting here.

@ everyone
Our room currently has a SoundTracs Megas Studio in it. We usually track thru API preamps. We've been looking at different fader control situations for our DAW. If the automation can control a DAW, then this board is definately worth looking in to.

One more thing: Most of the other boutique-y midrange stuff out there does not have 8 aux busses (I think only the Rupert Neve Designs). That's a big deal with me.
Old 31st August 2007
  #251
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
When he did Tonelux he went BEYOND the obvious limitations of API.
What are API's obvious limitations?

Quote:
How many ‘starting out’ and ‘home studio’ guys could afford a $ 3,200 WORLD CLASS line mixer? EVERYONE.
I don't know, $3200 for a world-class line mixer isn't bad, but to say that everyone can afford one is a stretch at best...

Quote:
How many people can shell out $ 50k for a limited 16 channel? I seriously doubt they’ll even sell 20 of these world wide.
I don't know, how many AWS900's has SSL sold? There's an obvious market for consoles in this price range...sure, it's small, but I don't think it's as small as you think it is. For a little bit less than the price of the AWS you can get a 32-channel API, or for half 16...doesn't seem like a bad deal to me. And no, I can't afford one (or couldn't justify purchasing one...however you want to put it) but I certainly see the value in it.

Quote:
Couple that with the fact that something like the Tonelux IS already a proven system with a proven track record and it is highly configurable seems to make this API solution less attractive...
Although it's a new console, I'd say that API has a proven track record as well...

Seriously, why do people feel the need to insist that the Tonelux system is "better" with an almost religious fervor? Can't these two products coexist in the market happily?
Old 31st August 2007
  #252
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84K View Post
...and the API 1608 will be the sidecar next to the 4064 G+.
I hate you.
Old 31st August 2007
  #253
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Juliano View Post
My wife said shes cool with the console purchase as long as she gets a BMW 7 Series.
Man, I'm really glad my wife doesn't have a driving licence!
Old 31st August 2007
  #254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Seriously, why do people feel the need to insist that the Tonelux system is "better" with an almost religious fervor? Can't these two products coexist in the market happily?
They absolutely can coexist. It's just that for MY needs the API makes very little sense and it seems that the market is leaning in my direction.

We all have to face the facts that budgets are not what they were 20 years ago in the heyday of the large format console.

Today people are doing more mixing and matching than ever, an assortment of mic pre amps, outboard EQ's, hybrid systems with DAW back-ends and some sort of summing solution. That is the future, a 16 channel desk with a large footprint, somewhat limited configuration (it is configurable but not as much as something like the Tonelux) and a $50,000 entry level price tag just does not make much sense to me.

So both products can coexist. I doubt neither is better sonically and it would be up to personal taste. The limitations of the Tonelux are the number of busses (which means very little to me coming from a hybrid DAW back-end). At that point the real question is cost and configuration options. For me, and I think a large amount of the market something like the Tonelux wins out because the cost can be kept lower.

Again I have NOTHING at all against the 1608 it just seems kind of like a brand new dinosaur in today's market.
Old 31st August 2007
  #255
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
That is the future, a 16 channel desk with a large footprint, somewhat limited configuration (it is configurable but not as much as something like the Tonelux) and a $50,000 entry level price tag just does not make much sense to me.
Actually that is the present...not the future.

The future, who knows?
Old 31st August 2007
  #256
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Meriphew's Avatar
 

I think that given APIs track record, you can be pretty sure that this console will rock hard. Will it have a bug or two? Perhaps. But I feel confident that API knows what they're doing.

I'll take a 32 channel 1608 over the AWS 900 any day of the week. The Tonelux stuff looks cool, and I have no doubt that it sounds swell too, but I'd prefer the API.
Old 31st August 2007
  #257
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Quote:
They absolutely can coexist. It's just that for MY needs the API makes very little sense and it seems that the market is leaning in my direction.
Certainly large NUMBERS of folks agree with you and need to spend smaller amounts at a time. This makes the TX approach viable for you and the other people in that situation.

Quote:
We all have to face the facts that budgets are not what they were 20 years ago in the heyday of the large format console.
I hear you re: budgets, but the 1608 is certainly no "large format console". I live 1 mile from a college campus where a great number of the vehicles in the parking lots are $35K (probably 15%).

Quote:
Today people are doing more mixing and matching than ever, an assortment of mic pre amps, outboard EQ's, hybrid systems with DAW back-ends and some sort of summing solution.
Admittedly not a sea change just yet, but many people are moving in the opposite direction - one pre-amp and the at least some of the functionality of a desk.


Quote:
That is the future, a 16 channel desk with a large footprint, somewhat limited configuration (it is configurable but not as much as something like the Tonelux) and a $50,000 entry level price tag just does not make much sense to me.
Entry price aside you cannot get the same functionality as the 1608 in TX for the same or less; which is fine. They really serve different markets - TX (as good as it is - VERY good) does not meet all needs.

Quote:
So both products can coexist. I doubt neither is better sonically and it would be up to personal taste. The limitations of the Tonelux are the number of busses (which means very little to me coming from a hybrid DAW back-end).
You were careful at first to point out 'to you'. But earlier you extend your needs to the broader market. We agree they can (and should) coexist. But there are people that use busses when tracking. If you don't that's great. But others do and they are useful.


Quote:
At that point the real question is cost and configuration options. For me, and I think a large amount of the market something like the Tonelux wins out because the cost can be kept lower.
Agreed. But not for the same functionality as the 1608. If you need that functionality the 1608 may be a contender. If not (like you) it probably does not make sense. On one hand you say they can co-exist. Below you seem to think that filling a market niche is creating a 'dinosaur in today's market'.

Again I have NOTHING at all against the 1608 it just seems kind of like a brand new dinosaur in today's market.[/QUOTE]

I for one hope all the mfgs do well. And I don't want them to all offer the same thing. For example more 500 series preamps.
Old 31st August 2007
  #258
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andsonic View Post
@Crypticglobe

I was looking at the pix that API provided. It looks like there's an insert after the pre and after the EQ. That looks to me like the flow of a SSL aws900. Not perfect for tracking, but definitely workable.
Yeah, sure. I saw that. And sure... like I said... it's got ALL the right inputs/outputs. So close.... but not there. First.... no level controlling the output to that "insert out". API has long made pre's that sound very cool on lot's of sources when you crank up the input, and crank back the output. So.... if I use that output... I need to buy 8 of THESE so that I can put a level between the post EQ out and the Tape input. And where the hell am I going to put them to keep the ergonomics going?

Next....everytime I want change from tracking mode, to mixing mode... I gotta repatch the whole patch bay... instead of hitting a couple of buttons.

I am not saying that this console couldn't be used at ALL in a tracking session... I am just saying that since an ENTIRE PRE that would cost me around $650.00 if I bought it in a 500 series version, could be added to the channel strip of this console with the cost of the strip actually going DOWN with it's addition (according to our anonymous poster from API)..... I am just floored that though the connections are there for it... that a line amp for tape monitoring was not included!! I mean why?!?! It just doesn't make sense! An entire level of professionalism and ergonomics was ignored for no apparent reason. Also... it would add a LOT of value to the unit making it possible for the 16 channel unit to be a 32 channel summing box!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andsonic View Post
@Crypticglobe

If the console automation can be used as DAW control then we have something interesting here.
No, no, no, no.... Not the automation... the faders. I have been offering up this idea on forums like this for years for free (I don't have time to develop it myself). SSL took step towards this with their faders for the Duality.

What I am saying is that the automation system should include faders that do the following:

Have 1 motor that can mechanically switch between a rail that changes an actual audio potentiometer, and a "controller" potentiometer that can send control signals to a DAW of your choice using a popular format (like Mackie Control Protocol).

The idea is that when in "Audio Mode" the motor would mechanically attach to a rail that would raise/lower the volume in the classic sense eliminating a need for a VCA (which still don't sound good to me). When the button is selected to change the faders to "DAW" mode, the volume potentiometer would lock, and then the motor driver would phyiscally move to the potentiometer that changed the DAW control signals. When you switch back... the DAW potentiometer is locked and control signal (send and receive) to the DAW are turned off... the motor engages the volume fader and it then unlocks for control. This would all happen "under the silkscreen" and the switch could happen with only a very small delay. So you would have all the faders able to complete switch tasks (together or indiviually perhaps) quickly... and with no audio sacrifices.

This would allow for the best possible sounding fader, excellent working automation, and excellent DAW control... all in one place. THIS is the future. Someone (besides SSL who didn't quite go this route) should jump on this.

jmtc...
Old 31st August 2007
  #259
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYMAX View Post
What would be the **** automationwise is if there were a virtual mixer in ProTools that looked like the ProTools mixer but was actaually referring to console automation and leaving ProTools outputs at unity..
if the faders follow DAW moves, all you have to do is send your signal out of PT pre-fader, the signal goes out unity or whatever you like, and the analog faders mirror the PT fader moves. voila.

AFAIK, tonelux is the only one that does something like this at this time.
Old 31st August 2007
  #260
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Kris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Today people are doing more mixing and matching than ever, an assortment of mic pre amps, outboard EQ's, hybrid systems with DAW back-ends and some sort of summing solution. That is the future,
Speak for yourself... that may be your future for sure... but definately not mine!!!

P.S. This console is a beauty.
Old 31st August 2007
  #261
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
Yeah, sure. I saw that. And sure... like I said... it's got ALL the right inputs/outputs. So close.... but not there. First.... no level controlling the output to that "insert out". API has long made pre's that sound very cool on lot's of sources when you crank up the input, and crank back the output. So.... if I use that output... I need to buy 8 of THESE so that I can put a level between the post EQ out and the Tape input. And where the hell am I going to put them to keep the ergonomics going?
or some shure A15AS attenuators. i love my ATTY and it's been a life saver more than once, but i agree with crypticglobe. if the 1608 had the exra line ins, and if they could be panned and summed at mixdown , it would be over the top.

still can't stop looking at the pics though. beautiful thing.
Old 31st August 2007
  #262
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I am just floored that though the connections are there for it... that a line amp for tape monitoring was not included!! I mean why?!?! It just doesn't make sense!
I think it's a lot more than just a line amp though, isn't it? That would essentially turn it from a 16- to a 32-channel mixer, wouldn't it? So there'd be extra circuitry to feed the summing bus. And of course, then people would want a "flip"-type functionality where you could use the faders to control the tape returns when mixing, and of course you'd need to be able to assign the EQ to either signal path, and/or patch those extra eight slots into both...so my guess is that there would be a whole lot more involved than just putting in another line amp.

I suppose API may chime in here with more detail...
Old 31st August 2007
  #263
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
I think it's a lot more than just a line amp though, isn't it? That would essentially turn it from a 16- to a 32-channel mixer, wouldn't it?


Quote:
So there'd be extra circuitry to feed the summing bus. And of course, then people would want a "flip"-type functionality where you could use the faders to control the tape returns when mixing.
well, now that you mention it... heh

Quote:
and of course you'd need to be able to assign the EQ to either signal path, and/or patch those extra eight slots into both...so my guess is that there would be a whole lot more involved than just putting in another line amp.
question is where do you stop? all these things would up the final cost but you gotta admit it would be cool, and it don't cost nothin' to fantasize.

Quote:
I suppose API may chime in here with more detail...
chime API, chime!
Old 1st September 2007
  #264
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not_so_new View Post
Again I have NOTHING at all against the 1608 it just seems kind of like a brand new dinosaur in today's market.
i agree.
i was hoping for something a bit different:(
Old 1st September 2007
  #265
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

I really wish console manufacturers like SSL, Neve, API would be more generous in including stereo channels in their modern console offerings. Modern music production has evolved to the point that almost everyone is using a DAW and stereo channels would be a godsend to us.

I've been using the 8 returns on the AWS900 as such but that means no EQ and faders, etc. (24 mono + 4 stereo =32 channels total)

Just a thought. I'd love to get a console that still has a small footprint and has 16 mono + 16 stereo. That would be killer!
Old 1st September 2007
  #266
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Sugarnutz's Avatar
I think it was stated that you can access the stereo mix bus on this console. If that's the case then you might can get on of those 24 channel monitor sections from Daking as a sidecar and use it to monitor the multi-track during tracking. A bit of a kludge, but should work well.
Old 1st September 2007
  #267
Gear Maniac
 
Mr. Man's Avatar
 

32 channels for somewhere in the neighborhood of $90,000?
That sounds more appealing than an AWS-900!
Old 1st September 2007
  #268
Lives for gear
 
jsteiger's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarnutz View Post
...If that's the case then you might can get on of those 24 channel monitor sections from Daking as a sidecar and use it to monitor the multi-track during tracking. A bit of a kludge, but should work well.
How about the API 8200 system. Can be used as a tape monitor and as additional inputs during mix. On the old desks, the tape monitor bucket was a totally seperate mixing section. Echo and cues were seperate from main channels. Mods had to be done to sum everything together.

One thing all you guys are forgetting is that this is supposed to be a "RE-ISSUE" of the famed 1604... not something new to revolutionize anolog mixing or rival the SSL AWS-900 board!! It has 4 more group busses than the original. Be happy. thumbsup

What if API were to incorporate the summing for the 8200's into the new 1608 desk? This would give all the benifits of a full tape monitor section. Maybe it's just a matter of cabling to access the cue and 2 mix busses??? Is this is the future API Sez????? Solo and mute functions integrated. Hummm...
Old 1st September 2007
  #269
Lives for gear
 
thenoiseflower's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MPCist View Post
I really wish console manufacturers like SSL, Neve, API would be more generous in including stereo channels in their modern console offerings. Modern music production has evolved to the point that almost everyone is using a DAW and stereo channels would be a godsend to us.

I've been using the 8 returns on the AWS900 as such but that means no EQ and faders, etc. (24 mono + 4 stereo =32 channels total)

Just a thought. I'd love to get a console that still has a small footprint and has 16 mono + 16 stereo. That would be killer!


thumbsup
Old 1st September 2007
  #270
Gear Maniac
 

Hype, Hype, more Hype...

Mr. Salesman, (Drewcifer)


“Can I ask you something 8068? Why do you equate something like this with greed? What do you have against hard-working people and companies providing the market with a good service or product, and getting paid for that? What do you have against profit? Do you work for free? Do you try to make a living with your studio, or do you give it away? Do you have a trust fund? Or are you a communist/socialist? If you are, how did that communism thing work out in the global market?”

I have nothing against hard working people, I don’t work for free, I make a profit within reason and I’m not a communist/socialist but there’s people in this country that want hand outs from the US government (getting closer to socialist thinking). Greed is part of human nature but some take it to the extreme more and more...


I can tell you, whether I sell stuff or not, as an engineer and an life-long API user, I am very excited about this. Is that ok with you, or does that make me some kind of grubby/greedy profiteer?

Being excited about the 1608 is an opinion but there’s a point your spewing and ranting turns into a sales pitch because your goal is to sell a couple of 1608’s.

In no way is this overpriced. It's worth every penny. You can short-load it an pay less, if you choose.

Your opinion, it’s overpriced and we’ll see how many are sold at $50,000, Rupert sold only 12 and that sells for $35,000.

Good quality is always going to cost. Remember what your mother said? "You get what you pay for.”

Good sales pitch ……….It’s nice eye candy for the “I want one” crowd but I would want to see how much function and listen to sound before handing over $50,000 just because it says API.

An API Legacy Plus or Vision is hundreds of thousands.

Do you own one?

The original 1970's API 1604 was tens of thousands in 1970's money.

The year is 2007 and technology has changed where parts can be manufactured for pennies and where all profits go to salaries of $100,000 for engineer’s and CEO’s are $300,000+

And how much was an 8068? That's your name --you should know, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 8068 was about 150,000 UK pounds. In 1978, the pound equalled almost 4 US$. But lets say the pound was $3. That desk was pushing half-a-million bucks. In 1978 you could still buy a decent car for a grand, the Rolling Stones Tour ticket was $10, and if you made $30,000 a year you were doing really well. My Dad bought a beach house in Florida that year for $35,000.

Irrelevant

I don't know how much that would equal in today's money but I'll bet it's more than a million. Which makes the little $50K API look darn reasonable. What do you expect a hand-built discrete console to cost? (And were Rupert Neve and Co working for the good of their hearts, or were they profiting from their venture?).

Your opinion and spin.

Judging by the calls we're getting, people are very excited and will be happy to drop fifty on the 1608.

Phone calls mean nothing for the “I want one” crowd it’s the people who drop the $50,000 that will realize after they buy one is I just lost $50,000 on a bunch of hype.

I got it! You're just an API hater!

The old stuff was good.

PS: I can tell you, I don't know any Pro Audio Dealer OR Manufacturer that's getting rich, by any means. If we wanted to make lots of money, we'd be doing almost anything else for a career but this. I'd venture that most people making and selling studio gear do it because they love recording, and they love good sound.

Very small percentage.
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